Geocentric Early Church Writer Quotes

[Piers Plowman]

This forum is not limited to "Reformed Community", whatever that is supposed to be, so it does not matter.

Certainly, but it is my hope that the readers of this thread will lean toward the more, should I say, orthodox leanings.

I do not think I will surprise you with the answer that Genesis 1 is not a scientific description. Its a temple inauguration style, in my opinion.

This is certainly where we apparently agree to disagree. Those who claim that 'the Bible is not a science textbook' notwithstanding, in my humble opinion, a Christian ought to let the Bible say what the Bible says, and the Bible uses geocentric terms, be it be for delight or for chagrin.

 

[Strong in Him]

All good, gentlemen. But the crux of my question is, what scientifically consequential difference could there be between geocentrism and heliocentrism? After all, for those who subscribe to the view of continually expanding universe, the center of the universe then becomes dependent on the reference frame of the observer's choosing.

I'm not a gentleman; I can't answer.

Seriously, I'm neither a scientist nor an astronomer; I really can't answer.

 

[Piers Plowman]

I'm not a gentleman; I can't answer.

Seriously, I'm neither a scientist nor an astronomer; I really can't answer.

mea culpa~

 

[trophy33]

Certainly, but it is my hope that the readers of this thread will lean toward the more, should I say, orthodox leanings.

I am fine with leaning towards truth, moderation and simplicity, as far as I am concerned. If its accepted by this or that camp is not too relevant to me.

This is certainly where we apparently agree to disagree. Those who claim that 'the Bible is not a science textbook' notwithstanding, in my humble opinion, a Christian ought to let the Bible say what the Bible says, and the Bible uses geocentric terms, be it be for delight or for chagrin.

Well, the funny thing is that it really is not a scientific book. Our modern concept of science was invented in Europe during the scientific revolution (16th-17th century). Logically, Bible was not written in this style - the Old Testament is from the Bronze/Iron age and the New Testament is from the Hellenistic era.

 

[Strong in Him]

mea culpa~

No problem.

 

[Piers Plowman]

I am fine with leaning towards truth, moderation and simplicity, as far as I am concerned. If its accepted by this or that camp is not too relevant to me.


Well, the funny thing is that it really is not a scientific book. Our modern concept of science was invented in Europe during the scientific revolution (16th-17th century). Logically, Bible was not written in this style - the Old Testament is from the Bronze/Iron age and the New Testament is from the Hellenistic era.

I highly beg to differ. Beginning from the very specific and realistic dimensions given for Noah's Ark, to the exact details laid out for building of the Temple, not to mention the vision of Ezekiel's Temple, all the way to the details of the Temple provided in John's Apocalypse, the Bible is filled to brim with exact scientific details, down to jot and tittle.

"2 Chronicles 2:13-14
King James Version

13 And now I have sent a cunning man, endued with understanding, of Huram my father's,
14 The son of a woman of the daughters of Dan, and his father was a man of Tyre, skilful to work in gold, and in silver, in brass, in iron, in stone, and in timber, in purple, in blue, and in fine linen, and in crimson; also to grave any manner of graving, and to find out every device which shall be put to him, with thy cunning men, and with the cunning men of my lord David thy father."

Dunno about you, but this guy sounds like quite a scientist to me.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

75 Bible Verses Prove a Flat Earth

We are naturally desirous of spending time with the thing, animate or inanimate, we love the most. Honestly ask yourself then, do you spend more time with the God of Heaven or the TV? How could we, as professing Christians, waste the free hours the Lord God has graciously given us to serve Him...

153news.net

Thanks for that video.

 

[trophy33]

I highly beg to differ. Beginning from the very specific and realistic dimensions given for Noah's Ark, to the exact details laid out for building of the Temple, not to mention the vision of Ezekiel's Temple, all the way to the details of the Temple provided in John's Apocalypse, the Bible is filled to brim with exact scientific details, down to jot and tittle.

"2 Chronicles 2:13-14
King James Version

13 And now I have sent a cunning man, endued with understanding, of Huram my father's,
14 The son of a woman of the daughters of Dan, and his father was a man of Tyre, skilful to work in gold, and in silver, in brass, in iron, in stone, and in timber, in purple, in blue, and in fine linen, and in crimson; also to grave any manner of graving, and to find out every device which shall be put to him, with thy cunning men, and with the cunning men of my lord David thy father."

Dunno about you, but this guy sounds like quite a scientist to me.

This is not what we mean by science or scientific. Just using numbers or measuring things is not the full concept of the modern science. People could build pyramids and still see the world through the lens of mythology or symbolism, like in the ancient Egypt.

Science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Strong in Him]

I highly beg to differ. Beginning from the very specific and realistic dimensions given for Noah's Ark, to the exact details laid out for building of the Temple, not to mention the vision of Ezekiel's Temple, all the way to the details of the Temple provided in John's Apocalypse, the Bible is filled to brim with exact scientific details, down to jot and tittle.

It's full of precise measurements - God told Noah, Moses etc exactly how he wanted things to be built.
That's maths; not science.

 

[Der Alte]

Sorry for your luck, Logos is required.

Ephesians 4:7-15 KJV
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. [Psa 68:18]
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Psalms 68:18 TS2009
18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive, You have received [brought] gifts among men, And even the rebellious, That Yah Elohim might dwell there [therein].

Not to even mention the other extremely important passage that was mentioned in my first response to you earlier in this thread, (this one was the much simpler and easier one to understand and believe: no comprende amigo? no mas).

I have Logos. This post does NOT address anything I have posted in this thread.

 

[JSRG]

Now, hold on a moment; you edited your posts after I posted my replies.

1. Reformed Community would beg to differ on the 'optical phenomenon' part.
2. Not so. If the sun stopped... well, fine, if the earth stopped... well, fine. If the daylight was extended out of norm, there would be tangible evidence left behind in historical astronomical trajectories, no? Same would apply for the Star of Bethlehem.
3. Again, the Reformed Community would beg to differ. I refer you to the Westminster Confession of Faith.

You say the "Reformed Community" would disagree on the idea that Joshua 10 was a local optical phenomenon rather than the Sun actually stopping moving or the Earth stopping spinning. On what basis do you say this? You refer to the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (which, while common among Reformed groups, is not accepted by all), but do not say where in this rather lengthy document any such statement is found. A search for "Josh" (in order to find both Joshua or the abbreviated "Josh."), "sun", and "Gibeon" do not turn up any references to this. So where does the Westminster Confession of Faith say that Joshua 10 was absolutely not a local optical phenomenon?

 

[Apple Sky]

It's full of precise measurements - God told Noah, Moses etc exactly how he wanted things to be built.
That's maths; not science.

Well according to some of you guys most of the ancient ones couldn't even read or write.

 

[Strong in Him]

Well according to some of you guys most of the ancient ones couldn't even read or write.

What's that got to do with it?

 

[Strong in Him]

75 Bible Verses Prove a Flat Earth

We are naturally desirous of spending time with the thing, animate or inanimate, we love the most. Honestly ask yourself then, do you spend more time with the God of Heaven or the TV? How could we, as professing Christians, waste the free hours the Lord God has graciously given us to serve Him...

153news.net

You have already agreed that the Bible does not prove a flat earth.

If it did; if "the earth is flat" was a true, Biblically-based statement then any scientists investigating it would be forced to agree. All their experiments, investigations, photos, studies etc would present the conclusion that "the earth is flat." They would have to confirm God's truth.
But they don't.

 

[prodromos]

If the daylight was extended out of norm, there would be tangible evidence left behind in historical astronomical trajectories, no?

Not if time was suspended locally.

 

[Apple Sky]

What's that got to do with it?

You said that the building of the ark was based on math's not science.

Well according to some of you guys most of the ancient ones couldn't even read or write.

So how did they manage the math's ?

 

[Strong in Him]

You said that the building of the ark was based on math's not science.



So how did they manage the math's ?

Measuring is not exactly maths.
A cubit was probably something like the length of their hand.

 

[daq]

I have Logos. This post does NOT address anything I have posted in this thread.

Nice chatting.

 

[Der Alte]

You said that the building of the ark was based on math's not science.

So how did they manage the math's ?

How did Noah et al. manage the math? "He's got all of us here in His hands. He's got all of us here His hands, He's got all of us here, in His hands. He's got the whole world in His hands!"

 

[Piers Plowman]

This is not what we mean by science or scientific. Just using numbers or measuring things is not the full concept of the modern science. People could build pyramids and still see the world through the lens of mythology or symbolism, like in the ancient Egypt.

Science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"People could build [spacecrafts] still see the world through the lens of mythology or symbolism"
I agree.

It's full of precise measurements - God told Noah, Moses etc exactly how he wanted things to be built.
That's maths; not science.

Dunno about you, but I'd be hesitant in walking into a room full of mathematicians and declaring that their line of work is not 'science'. Moreover, a whole host of advanced studies go into architecture.