Trump & Religious Principles

[rturner76]

Can anyone reconcile the figure of Donald Trump, the ever-patriotic guy with good command of economic principles, & negotiating skills with the fact that his bullying behavior from the businessworld to staff to the constant denigrating of persons or groups of people in the worst possible language stands out so much. As a populist he just throws away support from so many groups by just signaling that everyone in the world is inferior to him. All this seems inconsistent with the 10 Commandments & other concepts of just common decency. It's like he's one of the Pharisees who were pretending to be holy but really were more about bullying the common folk.

All you have to do to justify it by saying "He's against abortion," and "he'll cut my taxes if I can get rich." I forgot "He'll annihilate any country that gets in the way of 'progress'."

Just say that and your Evangelical identity remains intact. You have to remember that many feel that it's not Christ's unconditional love or the Father sending his only son to be sacrificed it's whether you did or did not vote for Trump that decided where you go on judgment day. that is the message I have been seeing from the Right Wing Evangelicals.

 

[Palmfever]

Can anyone reconcile the figure of Donald Trump, the ever-patriotic guy with good command of economic principles, & negotiating skills with the fact that his bullying behavior from the businessworld to staff to the constant denigrating of persons or groups of people in the worst possible language stands out so much. As a populist he just throws away support from so many groups by just signaling that everyone in the world is inferior to him. All this seems inconsistent with the 10 Commandments & other concepts of just common decency. It's like he's one of the Pharisees who were pretending to be holy but really were more about bullying the common folk.

He can be crass and I'm not defending him. However he may also speak his mind openly unlike Biden who waits for the person he is angry with to be gone before he toughens up and really shines.
I've changed the words, staff may disapprove.

In his new book, legendary journalist Bob Woodward offers a remarkable look behind the scenes at President Joe Biden’s blunt, profanity-laced assessments and interactions with the world leaders who have shaped his presidency, from Benjamin Netanyahu to Vladimir Putin.


“That son of a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy. He’s a bad f---ing guy!” Biden declared privately about the Israeli prime minister to one of his associates in the spring of 2024 as Israel’s war in Gaza intensified, Woodward writes.


“That f---ing Putin,” Biden said to advisers in the Oval Office not long after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, according to Woodward. “Putin is evil. We are dealing with the epitome of evil.”

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ok. Are you talking about the post I responded to or something before that.

I was clear that it was the post you responded to (post #1).

I responded to the post about characterising Trump as I think mean, rude arrogant, bully, ect. That he could be more like Vance and would be more popular. That people would not act that way if Godly following the 10 commandments. Not those exact words to a summary.

Thats a fallacy as it does not follow that Trump has not earnt his position. Sure he inherited a lot of what he has but thats sort of part of the point.

Trump got most of his wealth through gifts and inheritance. Without his father's money he would have been nobody. He is not self made.

He comes from good stock in that regard whether genetically or as growing up in that environment.

Oh, wow. You went right for the "genetic gifts" claim. SMH.

At the very least we can say some good knowledge and experiences have rubbed off and I think far more than any politicians who has not had such life experiences.

Among his deficiencies is that he had to be bailed out by his father's money MORE THAN ONCE.

Apart from that you can see he is competitive and all for enterprise and merit. Look at that reality show 'Your fired'. Thats all about merit and competition. Maybe a bit too much so and probably a weakness. But the point is anyone who goes through those experiences changes and takes all that in and learns from it.

"Reality TV" is fake. Trump was available to do that show because he wasn't making money doing other stuff.

Other politicians especially Harris who is completely devoid of that type of thinking because its too hard for her she has no idea. They go in pretending they know everything about anything and then the reality hits and exposes them.

This is about Trump, not anyone else.

Yeah I think its funny. He is like a big kid show off. I think he knows he's doing it and for a purpose. Especially when the Left pretend they are better than him.

Trump is a child emotionally. Not a good characteristic for a leader.

But thats the point. The Left does it too. Its a game about who's the best in whatever way they can get an upper hand. Trump is good at that as he can get down and dirty. But don't pretend the Left doesn't do exactly the same in their own way.

Its just done more covertly and underhanded and put more eloquently like with Hillary calling the Trump voters deplorables like she was so far removed and superior to those Trump voters. This is the general view of the Left who themselves think they are superior.

Trump just calls says your a scum bag lol. Doesn't mince his words lol. But they basically both mean the same thing.

None of the above addresses Trump's belief in his inherent superiority.

What, I thought this was common knowledge. Well you have the obvious politicians like Gabbard and Kennedy. They are pretty big endorcements. Of course everyone knows Musk is behind Trump. I think Trump is forming some sort of think tank with Kennedy and other business people as part of governance.

Kennedy has never held public office. Gabbard was a washed up, Assad-loving congressman. That there ego's lead them to run for president doesn't make the big Democrats. Musk has not been involved in politics before going "all in" on Trump.

But also Bill Ackman, Ben Horowitz and others who normally distance themselves from Trump are now supporting him.

Who?

Also the Teamsters supporting Trump though they don't officially. But they have traditionally supported the Dems. Evidently theres not much support for Harris.

I thought this was about polticians. This is a single union.

Well evidently now he is taking a bipartisen approach we governmence. Like I said Kennedy and probably Gabbard will play a role and some business minds.

We are doomed if the do.

They have come to an agreement where they both compromised some positions to make it work. Kennedy said he supported Trumps common sense and principled position which he said aligned with his. I find Kennedy reasonable and principled and he also comes from good stock.

It seems that also aligns with other prominant people. So they don't seem to share many Dems ill informed and biased views. They have actually got to know him and like what they see. Of course they don't agree or like his brashness but they take that as part of the bigger picture and more principled reasons about what they all stand for. Which is MAGA basically. Kennedy wants to make Americas healthly great again.

None of this addresses Trump's utter lack of personal ideology. Or his egotism.

Actually I have heard many say they changed their view of Trump because of the way he reacted once shot and seems willing to put his life on the line for what he believes in. Similassr has been said about Vance. That he was a man of principle and enlisted the day after 9/11 showing his courage and commitment to standing up for the US and freedom.

I think its a pretty powerful message and its starting to come through. I think much of this is because of Vance as he balances things out. But as they unite on many issues and policies people see through all the hype.

Citation needed.

Whereas the Left is all about highlighting race and gender and not merit and people begin to see through this ideology. They are now more consummed with covering up and managing the word salads and lack of coherent policy coming from a political appointment rather than a true candidate with merit. For which they should have sorted and not during the election lol.

take it elsewhere.

 

[stevevw]

Have you considered the possibility that what people on the Left are doing is wanting to create the circumstances in which the only thing that matters is merit, and that it shouldn't matter what a person's skin color is, or what their gender is, what ought to matter is their ability, their character, and that a good, fair, and just society is one which doesn't prejudice against people based on race, gender, or religion?

This level of not getting it isn't striking out in MLB, this is striking out at teeball, and the ball is a wiiffle ball.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't think thats the Left wanting that but the Right. The Left want Equity rather than equal opportunity. They want to judge people by their identity, their race, sex, gender and other intersecting identities. If you are white you are inherently racists due to the color of your skin and nothing else. That is the definition of racism and sexism.

Merit does mean recognising those with the best qualifications and talent above identity. Afterall when we want a doctor we want the best. Merit has been a foundational principle we have build the west and progressed with science and medicine and built a nation.

Its the fuel that gets people up out of their armchair and being enterprising, creative and utilizing the best we have to get the job done regardless of race, sex or gender or whatever other identity you want to pretend you have that pretends to have talent and ability.

Its a principle we have lost thinks to the Lefts insistence of bring up the race, sex and gender card in every situation. To the point now where its reverse descrimination. But that was the aim all along because its not just about what is best. Its about imposing an ideology, a belief in how we should order society and humans themselves.

 

[Hazelelponi]

There is a segment of the population that holds to a messianic view of Donald Trump, basically literally. They don't think that Trump is "THE Messiah", but they clearly do believe that Trump is a messiah.

In the Bible there is a Persian ruler named Cyrus who is credited for returning the Jewish people back to their homeland after Judah was conquered by the Babylonians, and Solomon's Temple was destroyed. Under Cyrus the Jewish kingdom was reorganized as a Persian satrapy, but the Jewish people could return, they could rebuild their Temple, and they were given a certain amount of autonomy. For this the biblical writers refer to Cyrus as God's anointed, God's chosen, the Hebrew word is meshiach--messiah. And it is this same Cyrus that you will often see Donald Trump compared to, as a chosen ruler anointed by God, as the literal American messiah.

That's exactly what referring to Trump as "chosen" means. Trump as a literal messiah. Little 'm' messiah, but messiah all the same.

-CryptoLutheran

Obama was seen as a Messiah and accepted as such within the Democratic party, if they didn't believe it they certainly played on the notion well past any limit I think God would approve of and clearly he's gone past sanity with a Messianic complex but few complaints are heard from either side of the aisle.

But decide that after the judgement of God on our nation for our sin - a judgement felt by the American people particularly sharply through the policies of Obama, Biden and Kamala Harris - He (God) would then turn and take pity on those who love Him and send them a better presidential option and an ability to put forward policies that are more moral and just and suddenly we are believing in a type of Messiah?

I am concerned, and it's just a personal concern here, that there really are a great number of Christians who are idolizing an image by saying that an imperfect person can't be used by God.

I think God uses imperfect people every single day.

My husband is imperfect but he's my angel from God.

I can still see the face clearly of a particular police officer and a military man who saved me. I'm pretty sure he wasn't perfect either.

Daily I am surrounded by the miracle of imperfect people who manage to make the most perfect witnesses.

I don't think Trump is a Messiah, not in the least and I'm not even convinced he's not still representing continued judgement since the pain of judgement is not lessening any even though we are trying for a national repentance here and vote for policies that are good instead of sucky policies and sucky people...

But I do think he's the moral choice, because it's policies that matter.

Kamala Harris is the farthest left candidate to ever run for public office and the last 3-1/2 years worth of policies is literally everything I do actually believe to be immoral and wrong.

I can't vote for a continuation of the last 3-1/2 years. I cannot vote against my own sense of right and wrong.

The first primary Trump ran in it was between Cruz and Trump. I chose Trump because I saw Cruz as part of the problem. Republicans always managed what appeared to be faux opposition to policies that were bad and Cruz was a part of that. Granted he was on the good side but he just seemed part of a deception - part of a government that always managed to capitulate to the far left.

It was why I voted for Trump over Cruz. I didn't expect Trump to win, he was my protest against the status quo.

But he did win and we managed to get out the vote for the Republicans and gotta say, just absolutely loved the policies, the peace. No wars alone was worth it, plus the Supreme Court picks and the legislation we got through and it was a great 4 years.

I don't have a clue what God is doing, but voting for good policies for a change, and enacting them, following through on the good more, it can't be wrong.

God has never indicated to me that supporting hell just to say to the world this isn't an image of me in the oval office would be the Godly thing to do.

Supporting Trump isn't worship of Trump. It's not misplaced - everyone knows we need God but we also need government. God gave us government and gave me no indications we should just stay out of it.

No wars, well defended borders, moral policies, etc are reflective of my own morality. Trump's last 4 years is all I need to know who to vote for again. I like peace and I hate war. I also love my neighbors and I want for them what I want for myself, I just think my neighbors are actually right next door to me.

You can misunderstand, but for people who see the miracles of God daily and think the nurse that helps them when they are sick are gifts from God saying God might have gifted Trump for the presidency isn't a stretch and it's not given in the spirit I think you imagine it to be given in.

I do pray that God gifted Trump for the presidency because the alternative is hell, which isn't my personal fav...

I don't think the woman who sold our border for scrap metal is suddenly going to build a wall etc etc etc. lots of reasons to believe she is a continuation of the same. She's the same border wizard, the same economic genius etc etc that got us in this mess. I'm voting for Trump very confidently.

And I pray to God that he wins and we can heal as a nation. We need healing time.

 

[stevevw]

I was clear that it was the post you responded to (post #1).

No you weren't really. I was responding to post 124 and did not know it happened to also be the OP. Anyway its the same post so yes I was responding to post no 1.

Trump got most of his wealth through gifts and inheritance. Without his father's money he would have been nobody. He is not self made.

OK fine. But nevertheless he has managed to work his way up to president of the US. That for a non politician is an incredible achievement. It doen't matter how he did it. Maybe his best skill is selling, selling himself. The point is his party also supported him as leader. Its not necessarily his individual skill but his figurehead, his organisational skills in getting the best people for the job. I am sure he has learnt that through experience. The best knowledge is the ones learnt by your mistakes.

But I don't think the Left should not be whinging about having position and power handed to them. They have a history of doing this. Harris is a political appointment. She was parachuted in by the elite Left. She climbed the career ladder with donations and positions from her Leftist mates and lover. She was not vetted as the candidate and there were better candidates.

Oh, wow. You went right for the "genetic gifts" claim. SMH.

Why whats wrong with that. Its a scientific fact. But it doesn't matter if its genetic or environmental. We all know that the conditions you grow up in have an influence. Good, bad and ugly he has that life experience and knowledge that Harris does not have and it all can't be bad.

Among his deficiencies is that he had to be bailed out by his father's money MORE THAN ONCE.

Most sucessful business people face the same situations. Yet he is still way above most people by any measure of sucess and certainly Harris.

"Reality TV" is fake. Trump was available to do that show because he wasn't making money doing other stuff.

Your missing the point. How Trump managed to be in that position to be able to do TV and become popular at it. Most people aspire to achieve that as success. It may be fake but its the entertainment industry and thats part of it.

I can see the Left hate giving credit where its due especially for Trump. They are biased even to the point of fixation about discrediting Trump in everything. According to them he is nothing, has achieved nothing and will be nothing. Which by matter of commonsense cannot be the case.

This is about Trump, not anyone else.

Yes thats what people fixated on Trump say. They want to make it all about Trump and when people point out the standards you are holding Trump to to discredit him as president should be also held for those they put forward they get all upset and want to make up new rules so that it is only about Trump. Its the very definition of obsession.

The question is why are you wanting to discredit Trump. Is it because he is a presidential candidate or just singling him out. If so then why can't we also mention other candidates. Afterall if the other candidates are the same or even worse then it discredits your moral higher ground and basis for singling out Trump.

Trump is a child emotionally. Not a good characteristic for a leader.

So are we all. I am not sure though this is a good representation. Like I said good people with integrity who know him more than those who are making these claims say he is a good decent man and people get him wrong.

Yeah he has his idiosyncrasies but who doesn't. Biden would go off swearing and cursing and sniffed kids. Harris decends into word salads and emotional kiddy talk about buses and space. She chucked tantrums at her staff when things didn't go right and had a high turnover. Thats what happens when you live in a make believe world where reality is about identity and not character.

None of the above addresses Trump's belief in his inherent superiority.

Well first I don't think this picture is correct. At least now. He has surrounded himself by other great minds so I cannot see that. He is listening to people superior to himself in other areas. That is smart.

I think the rhetoric is bravado and nothing more. In reality Trump knows he cannot govern on his own and he wants the best possible people. He has a history of doing that. Its more about giving the impression that I am in charge here and if you don't support the ideas and principles I stand for then your not good enough. Which would be expected for a boss and leadership and exactly what is needed right now.

Kennedy has never held public office. Gabbard was a washed up, Assad-loving congressman. That there ego's lead them to run for president doesn't make the big Democrats.

Maybe its good that Kennedy has not held public office. There are some on the Left who are career public servants and politicians and have completely messed things up due to being part of the ineffective machine.

The fact is the public office is failing and something needs to change. The Left want more of the same and are pretending a new vision. But its a trick, pig slop is pig slop even served on a silver platter. But it seems Kennedy and others who Trump has surrounded himself with have a real vision.

The good thing about Kennedy and Gabbard is that they bring the good ideas of the Left over but within a more conservative and traditional framework. Which is partly what the west was built on.

Musk has not been involved in politics before going "all in" on Trump.

Musk is not becoming a politician but more part of a think tank outside politics. This has been done for years where politicians consult the public. But the Left don't like doing that, at least not seriously. They love mixing with the elites as it gives them status but they hate big business and enterprise as its capitalism and they are socialist at heart. Especially Harris.

Who?

Ackerman founded and runs Pershing Square Capital Management, a hedge fund with $15 billion in assets under management. Ben Horowitz is a venture capitalist with around 42 billion in assets. So they know finance management.

I thought this was about polticians. This is a single union.

No I said there are politicians and business people who were democrates in the past who are now supporting Trump. I was trying to dispell the Lefts biased view of Trump. That at least 50% maybe slightly more including those who have supported the Dems don't think Trumps as bad as the Left make out.

But rather than acknowledge that there maybe some basis for people supporting Trump they call them deplorables or stupid and that there must be something wrong with them. That in itself is ego and superiority. So they are doing exactly what they accuse Trump and his supporters of doing.

We are doomed if the do.

Isn't that ironic. That is exactly what Trump supporters say about the Left.

None of this addresses Trump's utter lack of personal ideology. Or his egotism.

You obviously don't know Trump then. But its actually there for people to see. The guy stood up after being shot exposing himself to be shot again which showed great courage. Theres a little insight into the man. Despite all the rhetoric and memes theres a little bit of Trump which is pretty good.

I mean you have to decend into making Trump a lump of rock to deny that his experiences have not shook him and changed him a little. To see the bigger picture and meaning. But I think that is Trump anyway. Behind the performance is a principled man and those close to him agree some of which hated hiim before.

Citation needed.

I made several statements so I am not sure what you want me to cite. I said people are changing their minds because of Trumps courage during the assassination attempt, I said they see Vance similar already. I said that message is coming through and their beliefs and policies are similar and that ones rubs off on the other.

Besides its a weird thing to ask evidence for. I could show you evidence of people actually saying they have changed their mind, of praaising Vance even Leftist media and of commentators breaking down the relationship and why people are supporting Trump. But that is antedotal. What sort of evidence do you want.

take it elsewhere.

Oh sorry I forgot. This is all about Trump and we have to make it as easy as possible to make him look bad even if that means bending the truth and excluding Rule of Law.. .

The OP is about Trumps religious principles. But if those who bring the charge that he has no religious principles also have no religious principles then what credibility have those bringing the charge. It would then be a biased vendetta to single out one person for doing the same thing as themselves. Which is exactly what this is all about.

PS
By the way I forgot to mention the biggest reversal of Left learning Dems is SNL lol. The Left killed comedy with the Woke. But it seems many are standing up to the ideology including SNL who are traditionally Left learning.

Thats not good. When the Left begin to mock their own you know they are on their way down.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think thats the Left wanting that but the Right. The Left want Equity rather than equal opportunity.

Equity just means justice. There is nothing wrong with pursuing justice.

Opportunity in the abstract isn't very useful to anybody in particular. People need to be empowered to actualize opportunities. They cannot do that if social structures are actively oppressing them or hindering their freedom.

 

[stevevw]

Equity just means justice. There is nothing wrong with pursuing justice.

Actually this is not how the Woke see the 'E' in DEI. Its about equality of outcome regardless of merit and individuality. Where the individual is disected into conglomerates of identities and where all intersections need to be reflected in proportion to outcomes. So a concerted effort is needed to manipulate society to ensure this equal representation in all things.

Its actually the very definition of descrimination. That peoples value is measured by their identity to race, sex, gender, class, size, or whatever other category you want to make.

The individual is lost and the identity takes over. Its virtually stereotyping people by identity groups. So a person is in an unequal outcome not because of nature, nurture, individual effort, talent and ability. But because of their privildge or lack there of based on race, gender, sex, size, class of whatever.

But also certain identities gain more credit as needing a hand up being women, blacks, trans and gays. Whites are last and especially males. Despite data showing that white males are one of the most disadvantaged groups today even falling behind even Asians in education.

The extreme result of this is that a biological male purely based on his belief in being a women trumps the biological reality of women and in doing so wipes out everything that it is to be not just individual merit but the merits of being women itself. Its virtually reverse descrimination. Its a penalty as the so called priviledged and sucessful to make everyone even. Its socialism basically.

So in this new Utopia women have to accept that males will enter their space to create more opportunities for others not based on individuality effort and ability but purely on a belief that makes an identity the only measure of reality. That is not equality but a new form of descrimination.

Opportunity in the abstract isn't very useful to anybody in particular. People need to be empowered to actualize opportunities. They cannot do that if social structures are actively oppressing them or hindering their freedom.

Ok well then make that across the board and not just certain groups. We can find disadvantage for every individual. We should not advantage some over others and everyone should have those same opportunities. Because disadvantage is not based on race, gender or any identity. Its based on being disadvantaged.

You can make an arguement that every group has some sort of disadvantage. But it seems some groups are given advantage over others or miss out based on certain race and gender only.

If you look at women they were given special attention decades ago and fair enough. But it was done unevenly. Women should have been brought up to the level of men and not replace them. Now we have many males who have the worst education in the western world even to levels that women use to suffer in the 70's.

If its out equal outcomes thats not equal outcomes. Its doing the same thing in the reverse.

 

[Hans Blaster]

No you weren't really. I was responding to post 124 and did not know it happened to also be the OP. Anyway its the same post so yes I was responding to post no 1.

OK fine. But nevertheless he has managed to work his way up to president of the US. That for a non politician is an incredible achievement. It doen't matter how he did it.

He didn't rise up through politics. He entered politics with his only "experience" being promoting a racist conspiracy claim about the birthplace of the then sitting US president. (Yes, Trump was one of the leading "birthers".) He was a novice who ran as a populist demagogue.

Maybe his best skill is selling, selling himself.

That is obviously his best (or perhaps only) skill.

The point is his party also supported him as leader.

Capitulation after defeat. So many republicans dropped their objections to his utter unsuitability to office or leadership.

Its not necessarily his individual skill but his figurehead, his organisational skills in getting the best people for the job.

To the extent that non-awful people were in his administration, they were chosen by other Republican leaders he let pick most of his staff.

I am sure he has learnt that through experience. The best knowledge is the ones learnt by your mistakes.

He exhibits an utter lack of learning from mistakes or self-awareness.

But I don't think the Left should not be whinging about having position and power handed to them. They have a history of doing this.

The things we are talking about relate to individuals, not parties or groups.

Harris is a political appointment.

She has been elected to every one of her political jobs, no appointments.

She was parachuted in by the elite Left. She climbed the career ladder with donations and positions from her Leftist mates and lover. She was not vetted as the candidate and there were better candidates.

Why whats wrong with that. Its a scientific fact. But it doesn't matter if its genetic or environmental. We all know that the conditions you grow up in have an influence. Good, bad and ugly he has that life experience and knowledge that Harris does not have and it all can't be bad.

What's wrong with thinking you should have power or wealth because of your "inherent genetic superiority"? I'll let you think about that for a bit.

Most sucessful business people face the same situations. Yet he is still way above most people by any measure of sucess and certainly Harris.

Having Daddy pull you out of failure is a measure of success? You really do live on a different planet.

Your missing the point. How Trump managed to be in that position to be able to do TV and become popular at it. Most people aspire to achieve that as success. It may be fake but its the entertainment industry and thats part of it.

I can see the Left hate giving credit where its due especially for Trump. They are biased even to the point of fixation about discrediting Trump in everything. According to them he is nothing, has achieved nothing and will be nothing. Which by matter of commonsense cannot be the case.

Most people want to be reality TV stars? Maybe society really has gone to pot.

Yes thats what people fixated on Trump say. They want to make it all about Trump and when people point out the standards you are holding Trump to to discredit him as president should be also held for those they put forward they get all upset and want to make up new rules so that it is only about Trump. Its the very definition of obsession.

This is literally a thread about Trump (see title). If you don't want to discuss Trump including his flaws (we've strayed a long way from his "religious principles") then you should try a different thread.

The question is why are you wanting to discredit Trump.

Trump was for a very long time an annoying, self-aggrandizing, attention seeking, rich jerk. I didn't like him, but I also didn't care about him. Then he ran for president on an authoritarian platform and when it was clear that his campaign was not a joke, I turned my attention to him.

Is it because he is a presidential candidate or just singling him out. If so then why can't we also mention other candidates. Afterall if the other candidates are the same or even worse then it discredits your moral higher ground and basis for singling out Trump.

See thread title.

So are we all. I am not sure though this is a good representation. Like I said good people with integrity who know him more than those who are making these claims say he is a good decent man and people get him wrong.

Frankly, I question those with (formerly) good reputations that vouch for him.

Yeah he has his idiosyncrasies but who doesn't. Biden would go off swearing and cursing and sniffed kids. Harris decends into word salads and emotional kiddy talk about buses and space. She chucked tantrums at her staff when things didn't go right and had a high turnover. Thats what happens when you live in a make believe world where reality is about identity and not character.

See title.

Well first I don't think this picture is correct. At least now. He has surrounded himself by other great minds so I cannot see that. He is listening to people superior to himself in other areas. That is smart.

I don't know who these "great minds". The more your write these things the less I think you actually know about Trump.

I think the rhetoric is bravado and nothing more. In reality Trump knows he cannot govern on his own and he wants the best possible people. He has a history of doing that. Its more about giving the impression that I am in charge here and if you don't support the ideas and principles I stand for then your not good enough. Which would be expected for a boss and leadership and exactly what is needed right now.

He doesn't want the best people, he wants those who will not question him and do as he says. He wants yes men and sycophants.

Maybe its good that Kennedy has not held public office.

That is clear. It's also why he shouldn't have a role in a presidential administration. We don't need him ruining public health.

There are some on the Left who are career public servants and politicians and have completely messed things up due to being part of the ineffective machine.

Career public servant are hired the same way any non-political job is.

The fact is the public office is failing and something needs to change.

what?

The Left want more of the same and are pretending a new vision. But its a trick, pig slop is pig slop even served on a silver platter. But it seems Kennedy and others who Trump has surrounded himself with have a real vision.

A dark vision. I've seen this vision before. It doesn't turn out well.

The good thing about Kennedy and Gabbard is that they bring the good ideas of the Left over but within a more conservative and traditional framework. Which is partly what the west was built on.

What?

Musk is not becoming a politician but more part of a think tank outside politics. This has been done for years where politicians consult the public. But the Left don't like doing that, at least not seriously. They love mixing with the elites as it gives them status but they hate big business and enterprise as its capitalism and they are socialist at heart. Especially Harris.

Oh good grief.

Ackerman founded and runs Pershing Square Capital Management, a hedge fund with $15 billion in assets under management. Ben Horowitz is a venture capitalist with around 42 billion in assets. So they know finance management.

So finance guys, not experts in anything practical.

No I said there are politicians and business people who were democrates in the past who are now supporting Trump. I was trying to dispell the Lefts biased view of Trump. That at least 50% maybe slightly more including those who have supported the Dems don't think Trumps as bad as the Left make out.

But rather than acknowledge that there maybe some basis for people supporting Trump they call them deplorables or stupid and that there must be something wrong with them. That in itself is ego and superiority. So they are doing exactly what they accuse Trump and his supporters of doing.

For some reason, you wrote this in response to a comment on a labor union. Go figure.

Isn't that ironic. That is exactly what Trump supporters say about the Left.

smh

You obviously don't know Trump then. But its actually there for people to see. The guy stood up after being shot exposing himself to be shot again which showed great courage. Theres a little insight into the man. Despite all the rhetoric and memes theres a little bit of Trump which is pretty good.

His reaction to being shot reads more as a delusional belief in his own indestructibility than courage. He's never demonstrated courage before (and sometimes the opposite).

I mean you have to decend into making Trump a lump of rock to deny that his experiences have not shook him and changed him a little. To see the bigger picture and meaning. But I think that is Trump anyway.

That's the point -- he didn't change. Other than throwing in a bit of messianic complex to win over the rubes, nothing.

Behind the performance is a principled man and those close to him agree some of which hated hiim before.

LOL. Trump -- "principled". Oh my.

I made several statements so I am not sure what you want me to cite. I said people are changing their minds because of Trumps courage during the assassination attempt, I said they see Vance similar already. I said that message is coming through and their beliefs and policies are similar and that ones rubs off on the other.

Yes those would be the kind that need a citation.

Besides its a weird thing to ask evidence for. I could show you evidence of people actually saying they have changed their mind, of praaising Vance even Leftist media and of commentators breaking down the relationship and why people are supporting Trump. But that is antedotal. What sort of evidence do you want.

You seem to understand what needs backing regarding this claim.

Oh sorry I forgot. This is all about Trump

Yes it is. Read the thread title. It ain't about anyone else.

and we have to make it as easy as possible to make him look bad even if that means bending the truth and excluding Rule of Law.. .

The OP is about Trumps religious principles. But if those who bring the charge that he has no religious principles also have no religious principles then what credibility have those bringing the charge. It would then be a biased vendetta to single out one person for doing the same thing as themselves. Which is exactly what this is all about.

PS
By the way I forgot to mention the biggest reversal of Left learning Dems is SNL lol. The Left killed comedy with the Woke. But it seems many are standing up to the ideology including SNL who are traditionally Left learning.

Thats not good. When the Left begin to mock their own you know they are on their way down.

 

[Bradskii]

Yeah he has his idiosyncrasies...

Ye gods and little fishes...I refuse to let what he is become the new normal. When the type of man he shows to the world, his acts and his words can be described as 'idiosyncrasies'.

It shall not happen.

 

[stevevw]

He didn't rise up through politics. He entered politics with his only "experience" being promoting a racist conspiracy claim about the birthplace of the then sitting US president. (Yes, Trump was one of the leading "birthers".) He was a novice who ran as a populist demagogue.

Ok well I am not sure thats his whole political beliefs but so what. He just playing the political identity game. Giving back what the Left give with identity. Making identity the only measure of reality. He's just better at it evidently enough so that he managed to work his way up to president of the US.

He did the same for Kamarla and look how that panned out. There was actually some truth to it. Thats because we know that the Left are actually the ones who race and gender bait. Everything is because of race, gender sex and a bunch of other intersecting identities.

That is obviously his best (or perhaps only) skill.

Not sure if thats his only skill. Hes also good at golf lol. Well at least better than Biden. But thsat half the problem is getting people to believe in the cause. Whats being sold MAGA. What else do polititians do but sell themselves and their party.

Harris has been mainly seeling herself without any political content. Its all about how she is black, comes from a working class, believes in opportunity, that she is full of joy and hope and aspirations. Its all word salad for selling by emotion.

Capitulation after defeat. So many republicans dropped their objections to his utter unsuitability to office or leadership.

Well their certainly embracing him now like he is a rock star. But of course the Left thinks any normal person must has something wrong with them if they support Trump.

Over half the population are morons who have no minds of their own. Where have I heard that. Oh thats right thats what the Right thinks of the Left. How can two sides be so opposing and right at the same time. Maybe everyone is just wrong.

To the extent that non-awful people were in his administration, they were chosen by other Republican leaders he let pick most of his staff.

Yes so he is inviting others in to have some say and control. Likeminded people. But isn't that good. Isn't that how things should be run where you put the best people in positions that will help achieve the goal, ie the policies, ideas and principles of your party. Or in this case coalition.

He exhibits an utter lack of learning from mistakes or self-awareness.

I don't think thats a fair assessment. If that were the case he would be in more trouble than he is now lol. I know he ain't going to make the mistake of trusting the government taking care of his security anymore.

One of the reasons Kennedy cited as to why he supports Trump is that he has set things up so the same mistakes won't be made. So theres checks and balances and independent people sharing the direction and decisions.

The things we are talking about relate to individuals, not parties or groups.

She has been elected to every one of her political jobs, no appointments.

No actually she wasn't as the Left tries to hoodwink us with. Not everyone is immerced in the Leftist propaganda. Of course Left voters are only getting parts of the story from the Left as the Left have been caught many times manipulating not just Harris's past but even headlines and editing words coming out of Kamarlas mouth to pain a different picture of her.

The reality is the Left pulled a swifty in replacing Biden with Harris. The elites decided she was the one and not the party faithful through the normal vetting. Which may have produced a better candidate. In fact Harris was not regarded as a good candidate before Biden dropped out and then suddenly she becomes Mother Terrasa.

But she was also given a plush positions on a well paying boards and committies. One a medical board which consisted of older and retired practicitioners. For which Harris had no qualification or had deserved compared to other medical persons. This helped fund her push for DA and Brown also introduced at the same time to many influencial circles in politics and law from which she benefited.

What's wrong with thinking you should have power or wealth because of your "inherent genetic superiority"? I'll let you think about that for a bit.

Is there a gene for superiority.

Having Daddy pull you out of failure is a measure of success? You really do live on a different planet.

Like I said I can't help it if some people have deranged Trump syndrome where everything they see about Trump is bad and negative. They have an aversion to giving Trump credit even if he did do something good lol.

So your defining Trumps entirely on the times his father had to bail him out as the measure of success. Your a cruel man lol.

I am sure we can find some business ventures he had been successful with. I heard the Business program he setup for Black entrapenuers was very sucessful and produced many Black businesses. WE know he has been successful at TV reality shows. Must have made some money out of that. I's sure theres many more.

Most people want to be reality TV stars? Maybe society really has gone to pot.

Well its classed as being successful. The thing is for Trump it was just one bow in his different ways of having success. For most aspiring reality stars their 15 minutes of fame is all there is. For the rest they don't even get to do that and are either unemployed, on welfare or working a job they hate. So depends on how you view success.

This is literally a thread about Trump (see title). If you don't want to discuss Trump including his flaws (we've strayed a long way from his "religious principles") then you should try a different thread.

OK I will keep that in mind. So Trump is to be judged without context or comparison so that it maximises the chances that Trump is made to look bad.

Is that what the Left have been doing with Lawfare. They Trump Trump like no other individual and will move mountains to ensure he is destroyed.

The problem is when you talk about Trumps religious morals doesn't this automatically bring in comparisons. If there is no comparisons then so what. Theres no way to judge he is doing anything wrong. But if you want to judge him then it opens up the debate about morals itself and how others behave in comparison.

Trump was for a very long time an annoying, self-aggrandizing, attention seeking, rich jerk. I didn't like him, but I also didn't care about him. Then he ran for president on an authoritarian platform and when it was clear that his campaign was not a joke, I turned my attention to him.

Yes I understand that. But I am talking about in the bigger picture as to why a thread has been made about Trump. In what context. Just to be nasty people and single out one person to criticize. To make a point about what is a good character or that he is not fit to be a politician. Or because someone felt like it.

See thread title.

I know its about Trump

Frankly, I question those with (formerly) good reputations that vouch for him.

I know thats what the Left does like Hillary and Di'Nero and Whoopi and her friends think. That all Trump supporters can't be trusted and theres something wrong with them.

See title.

I know I forget. Trump must be shown in a bad light no matter what. I keep fogetting.

I don't know who these "great minds". The more your write these things the less I think you actually know about Trump.

I think I know more than most Dems anyway. Of course your not going to know them as your not interested in knowing them. You disagree with the Right so why would you bother finding out about them except information that will paint them in a bad light.

The point is Trump is forming a coalition of people with expertise and experience to transition into government and not being the dictator the Left claim. These people seem to come from a broad spectrum of positions and are pretty common sense and decent people. I would not say they are deluding themselves for power but rather basically agree with the core principles Trump is standing on.

Linda McMahon, Trump's former head of the Small Business Administration, and Howard Lutnick, the billionaire CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald and BGC Group, were named as co-chairs of this team. Vice presidential nominee JD Vance, along with his sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, were designated as honorary co-chairs. Presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy is another included as possible members. Elon Musk and other business people will serve as possible administrators.

 

[stevevw]

Ye gods and little fishes...I refuse to let what he is become the new normal. When the type of man he shows to the world, his acts and his words can be described as 'idiosyncrasies'.

It shall not happen.

How morally Woke of you.
Is that really the hill or should I say moral high ground you want to die on lol.

 

[Bradskii]

How morally Woke of you.
Is that really the hill or should I say moral high ground you want to die on lol.

Yes. It most very definitely is. The man is not someone that should ever have been considered for a candidate for high office.

You know as well as I do that he'd be treated as a figure of fun at best should he attempt what he has done down here.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I thought people on the right want those things too.

I often think that this old 'Left' label is a bit lazy. It is a relative term used rather loosely in America. It has a stronger meaning in Europe generally.

In a lot of cases American leftists and liberals are the equivalent to Europe's centrists or even the center-right. Harris and Walz would not be leftists in Europe, they'd be right/center-right.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stevevw]

As far as I understand, the Rights position has always been colorblind policies. It was the Left who with the critical theories brought race and gender into the equation through academia. A variation on traditional Marxism where instead of class its now cultural Marxism which covers race, identity, class and a bunch of other intersecting identities.

So instead of class as a means of power differences now race and gender and a number of other identities are the cause of all differences in power and disempowerment or priviledge and disadvantage.

So it followed that for every problem in society race and gender was cited as the cause. If someone got a job above a minority it was white priviledge and not individual merit. Then it followed that race, sex and gender were being blamed for everything.

When it was shown that society was not as bad as the activists claimed they went looking for new ways to keep race and gender fresh in our minds with the whites and are inherently racist and micro agressions. Now claiming to read our minds and that even when we said we were not racist we were still racist because we were not aware. That blacks could never be racist as it was not in them.

In otherwords they have fixated on race, sex and gender ensuring that its kept alive in our minds even when it was not there in the first place.

 

[stevevw]

Yes. It most very definitely is. The man is not someone that should ever have been considered for a candidate for high office.

I was responding to a claim about Trumps racist remark in questioning O'Bama's heritage. Though I don't think its necessarily racist to question someones heritage.

I was pointing out if the Left want to get on the moral high ground about racism and descrimination then they have no leg to stand on. They have practiced descrimination themselves.

But is personal; opinion the determinant of what is right. You say he should not be considered candidate but more than half the nation as well as many dems and commonsense and decent people think he should. So if your going by your opinion its not necessarily a reflection of everyone else.

The important point is that they think he should be candidate and president above Harris, Biden or the Left. That they think exactly the same thing about Harris as you say about Trump.

How do you rationalise that then. Oh thats right you then have to demean all Trump supporters. That is exactly what has been sending more and more people over to Trump and the Left cannot see this. By treating people with contempt the Left turn even their own supporters off them.

You know as well as I do that he'd be treated as a figure of fun at best should he attempt what he has done down here.

No I don't. I see more than half the US not thinking that way in reality. In fact I see it the other way around. That despite Trumps weaknesses theres more danger in Harris and the Left getting into power. It seems to me that is exactly what all Trump supporters believe.

I don't think he is as bad as the Left make out and he has some good ideas and principles he is standing on which many people relate to. The Left seem to have a bias and obsession with him that goes beyond rationalism.

 

[Bradskii]

I don't think he is as bad as the Left make out...

One doesn't need to 'make out' anything. He is the worst possible character that has ever stood for high office. Bar none.

You are living in an alternative reality where a man like this can even be considered as a candidate.

Again, he'd be treated as a joke in Australia. How it has got to the point where he is in with a chance of a SECOND shot at the most important job there has ever been is not something I can readily grasp. I'm confused as to how we have reached such low point.

 

[ViaCrucis]

As far as I understand, the Rights position has always been colorblind policies. It was the Left who with the critical theories brought race and gender into the equation through academia. A variation on traditional Marxism where instead of class its now cultural Marxism which covers race, identity, class and a bunch of other intersecting identities.

So instead of class as a means of power differences now race and gender and a number of other identities are the cause of all differences in power and disempowerment or priviledge and disadvantage.

So it followed that for every problem in society race and gender was cited as the cause. If someone got a job above a minority it was white priviledge and not individual merit. Then it followed that race, sex and gender were being blamed for everything.

When it was shown that society was not as bad as the activists claimed they went looking for new ways to keep race and gender fresh in our minds with the whites and are inherently racist and micro agressions. Now claiming to read our minds and that even when we said we were not racist we were still racist because we were not aware. That blacks could never be racist as it was not in them.

In otherwords they have fixated on race, sex and gender ensuring that its kept alive in our minds even when it was not there in the first place.

The problem with "colorblindness" is that it doesn't address racial injustice. It just ignores it. We shouldn't be colorblind, we should be aware of actual realities of inequality and injustice as faced by people of color.

When black people tell white people, "This is what we experience", the correct course of action isn't to ignore it, dismiss it, or call black people liars, or tell them they "have a victim mentality"--it's to recognize that this is the real and lived experience of people who, because of centuries of real issues that are STILL ongoing, are still not treated the same as white people. And it gets worse when the response is simply to call this "woke" as a pejorative term, or get upset rather than have genuine compassion. My comfort, as a white person who doesn't experience racial prejudice at a systemic and social level, should not be prioritized over the real sufferings of real people who suffer solely because they were born with a higher concentration of melanin in their skin, and whose ancestors were slaves. And that's what "colorblindness" is, it's "I don't want to think about this unpleasant reality, so I'm going to stick my head in the sand".

You may not like it, but the past informs the present. We don't get to where we are now without what happened before. And if we don't address the sins of the past, and actually address the pains of the present, then we don't get healing in the future. Instead we just maintain a status quo.

A bare amount of empathy is all that is required here. I don't know what it's like to be black in America, and I never will. But when my black neighbors tell me what they experience, when they tell me their struggles, when they tell me the truth of their lives in a country that, historically, hates them. The absolute least I could do is listen and believe them, and take them seriously. And if I am going to take Jesus seriously when He says "Love your neighbor" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", then I should do more than just listen, I should want to see a positive change in how this society operates. That my black neighbors be afforded every single bare minimum right and privilege that I, as a white person, have and experience.

So, yeah, that means focusing on race. The history of race in the context of American history. Being honest about past and present failures of America as it pertains to race. And focusing on systemic changes that actually create beneficial long term affects that are positive toward reconciliation and healing of these deep wounds.

And the same is true when we talk about, gender. I'm a man, so I don't know what it's like to be a woman in America. But I can believe women when they tell me what they've experienced. I don't know what it's like to be afraid to go to a social gathering because someone might put drugs in my drink. I don't know what it's like to be objectified by total strangers out in public who tell me all the gross and dehumanizing things they want to do to me or my body. I don't know what it's like to be statistically more likely to be sexually assaulted, or when sexually assaulted have people ask me what I was wearing. But I have known a lot of women who have been good, close personal friends. And 9/10 of them, when they open up to me, have shared these sorts of experiences. Almost every single woman I have known has experienced sexual assault or rape. And chances are, that's the same for the women you know. And, I don't know, it seems pretty antithetical to everything I believe as a Christian to dismiss it, or trivialize that, or to say "well I don't experience that, so it doesn't really affect me", or to lack empathy, compassion, or to want things to be better for women. Or to tell myself that women are all just lying, or "being emotional", or whatever excuse someone might want to offer to either avoid thinking about uncomfortable topics, or worse, avoid taking personal responsibility and change how we act or how we think.

And to dismiss all of this as just "woke", demonstrates not merely a lack of basic empathy and compassion for one's neighbor; but comes across as an active disdain for your fellow human beings.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ok well I am not sure thats his whole political beliefs but so what. He just playing the political identity game. Giving back what the Left give with identity. Making identity the only measure of reality. He's just better at it evidently enough so that he managed to work his way up to president of the US.

I wasn't speaking of his "beliefs" regarding politics, but his experience. You ignored the entirety* of that experience as quoted (being a chief in the racist "birther" movement) to write this instead.

(*He did float a possible campaign for a third party nomination in 2000, but nothing became of that.)

 

[Hans Blaster]

(I'm not going to respond to your entire post because it is ridiculously long and broken into various pieces *AND* ventures wildly off topic repeatedly.)

Is there a gene for superiority.

Oy vey. Trump believes in his genetic superiority and that is why he is "successful". No one said anything about "a gene". SMH.

Like I said I can't help it if some people have deranged Trump syndrome where everything they see about Trump is bad and negative. They have an aversion to giving Trump credit even if he did do something good lol.

He really did fail in business those times (or almost without the bail out in the case of the "casino deposit"). Your attempt to paint criticism of Trump as "TDS" managed to cast Trump as "deranged" (which he kind of is). SMH.

So your defining Trumps entirely on the times his father had to bail him out as the measure of success. Your a cruel man lol.

Let me "quote" one "genetically superior" man to make a statement to another "genetically superior" man:

"Mr. Trump, I have hurt you. And I am going to go on... hurting you." (Said somewhere near the Mutara Nebula).

That bit of "fun" aside, being bailed out is not a measure of success, but failure. Trump is *exactly* the kind for whom the phrase: "born on second base and thinks he hit a triple" is about.