SALVATION

[fhansen]

There you go again with works based salvation. Of course there are two parts to salvation. We see it in John 3:16 (and many other verses). God sent Jesus to earth that whoever believes in Him 1) shall not perish because He forgives their sins, and 2) shall have everlasting life because He separates then from sin and gives them His life when He comes to live in their hearts. Both parts of salvation are accomplished in their entirety by Christ upon Him saving us and they both always remain effective during our lives as we live out the new lives He gave us when He came to live in our hearts. It is not by good works that we overcome sin. It is our separation from sin that sanctifies us unto good works.

No it doesn't. Your quote says that at the end of our lives God will judge us on the basis of our love. That is not what 1 Corinthians 12:31 says. And there is no verse that supports this doctrine.

Come to understand this and you’ll better understand the gospel: Paul objected to the idea that man has any righteousness of his own, that he can then prove by observance of the law, by works of the law. The new covenant is about man returning back to God from his alienation whereupon He gives them the righteousness that only He can give- as we’re grafted into the Vine. Then we must remain in the Vine in order to be able to live as children of God can and must live. Now we are enabled to love as we should to put it another way, and to love as we should means to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. Yes, works of love, not of the law, works prepared for us in advance (Eph 2), after having been justified are necessary which is why the basis of Christ’s separating the sheep from the goats in Matt 5, for example, is on what they did, for the least of these. And why Paul can still say in Rom 2:7:

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.”

As far as love is concerned, it’s all throughout the bible and Paul understood this well. It’s the nature of God, the reason and motivation for why Jesus came and did all that He did. It’s who we are to become. To the extent that you love God and neighbor you’ve been justified and that grace, that seed of God planted in you has taken root and grown as it should, evidenced by good fruit.

Abraham was declared righteous because acknowledgement of God’s existence and trustworthiness, heeding His voice as Adam failed to do, is right, the first right thing a man can do, and constitutes the essence of faith. From there man exists in a state of justice rather than injustice. God is his god, from Whom the sap of the Vine can flow.

To reduce the gospel to the forgiveness of sin only is to throw out half the gospel, the part of having been given a new heart and new spirit while being enjoined to remain in and act upon that state of grace.

You turn righteousness into a requirement to obey the law (i.e., works).

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work." 1 John 3:7-8

"Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” 2 Tim 2:19

When you pick up the law to secure your righteousness, you place yourself under the curse of the law because the law requires perfect obedience.

As I've said over and over, we turn to God for righteousness not to the law. You're mistake is in thinking that said righteousness is only imputed/declared.

This is something you apparently do not understand. But you would be wise to seek to understand it and adopt it.

You would be wise to adopt the understanding of the Christian faith from the beginning. The gift of righteousness is the real thing, given to us as we turn to Him:

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people." Jer 31:33-34

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22"

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

“The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:20-21

"You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:18-22]

"For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14

“The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Gal 2:20-21

 

[setst777]

It appears you are adding to and subtracting from the Scriptures.

This is adding to the Scriptures. There is no quid pro quo for God's forgiveness.

You just committed a sin. Perhaps it was committed in weakeness.

This is a false doctrine.

Another false doctrine. They are starting to pile up.



Another false doctrine.

One more.

To summarize your false doctrines, you think that people earn eternal life by living righteous lives. This is an old religion, but it is antithetical to the gospel of Christ. The best thing I can do for you is to point you to Galatians and ask you to ruminate on these Scriptures...

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. (Ga 1:6–7)​

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? (Ga 4:21)​

​

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? (Ga 3:1)​

​

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Ga 3:10–14)​

​

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (Ga 5:1–6)​

The Passages you referred to: Galatians 1:6-7; Galatians 3:1-14; Galatians 4:21; Galatians 5:1-6 all refer to the works of the Law. We all agree that we are not saved by the works of the Law, so your whole argument is directed toward a straw man. There is no Christian I am aware of that believes we have to obey the OT Law to be saved.

For instance, you list "Galatians 5:1-6," but neglect the rest of "Galatians 5" that plainly teaches what faith in Christ means by which we are saved in contrast to the works of the Law. Paul summarized in that same chapter what faith is by we "belong to Christ," as follows:

Galatians 5:24-25 [Written for Christians] 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with by the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16, 21 (WEB) 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. . . 21 I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Therefore, Christians are to make their calling and election sure by a continued faith and love for Lord Jesus (2 Peter 1:3-11).

You are confusing "works of the Law" with repentance toward God and faith in Lord Jesus (Acts 20:20-21) of which Baptism represents (Romans 6:1-8).

A true Christian does not do works to earn salvation; rather, the good works a Christian does comes from faith by which one's whole life is dead to sin, and now committed to following Lord Jesus. These are the only "Christians" who are saved (Matthew 10:38; John 10:27-28; Hebrews 5:9).

Therefore, if you were baptized; yet, you refuse to listen to and follow Lord Jesus as His disciple, then your baptism means nothing (Matthew 28:19-20).

To hold onto your position, you had to delete from your response the Scriptures I introduced that plainly teach that faith in Christ includes repentance to be saved, and is manifested by turning from sin to God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love, and of which Baptism represents (Roman 6:1-8; Matthew 28:19-20).

Do you really want to delete over half the New Testament so that you can continue to distort the Gospel?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Come to understand this and you’ll better understand the gospel: Paul objected to the idea that man has any righteousness of his own, that he can then prove by observance of the law, by works of the law. The new covenant is about man returning back to God from his alienation whereupon He gives them the righteousness that only He can give- as we’re grafted into the Vine. Then we must remain in the Vine in order to be able to live as children of God can and must live. Now we are enabled to love as we should to put it another way, and to love as we should means to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. Yes, works of love, not of the law, works prepared for us in advance (Eph 2), after having been justified are necessary which is why the basis of Christ’s separating the sheep from the goats in Matt 5, for example, is on what they did, for the least of these. And why Paul can still say in Rom 2:7:

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.”

The most simple of all sins (eating a piece of fruit which was forbidden) caused Adam and Eve to lose their lives and put them and their descendants in peril of eternal damnation. But for your theology to work, a person's little sins must not be counted against him. For the life of me, I do not understand how people can ignore their failures and think their persistence in doing good will gain them eternal life. Even if a person thinks this, I do not understand why he would not express hope in his past, present, and potential future failures might be blotted out by God forgiving them. To place all one's hope in himself therefore seems foolish.

You're mistake is in thinking that said righteousness is only imputed/declared.

That is not how I see it at all.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Co 5:21)​

With Jesus Christ in our hearts, we have been joined to Him (1 Co 6:17), have become one spirit with Him (1 Co 6:17), and have "become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Co 5:21). This is why it is said that "the new man" was "created" "according to God" "in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). It is real, it is not simply imputed or declared. But our sins are covered, removed, forgiven, and not counted against us. In this respect, He declares and imputes righteousness to us in spite of our sins.

You would be wise to adopt the understanding of the Christian faith from the beginning.

You have a fixation on Catholic tradition. I have fixed my attention on the Spirit of God who leads, guides, teaches, directs, corrects, and comforts me from the depths of my own heart. This is the only way to live a successful Christian life. This is what God is leading people everywhere to do today, and it is what He has been doing ever since He first took up residence in people's hearts after Jesus' resurrection. So no, I'm not giving up what I have for what you have.

The gift of righteousness is the real thing, given to us as we turn to Him:

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people." Jer 31:33-34

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22"

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

“The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:20-21

"You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:18-22]

"For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14

“The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Gal 2:20-21

I embrace all of these verses. The difference is that I see the righteousness we have in Christ as permanent and not subject to loss because it is "true righteousness and holiness" that is just as impervious to sin and just as incorruptible by sin as God is (verses avilable upon request). It does not exist in the flesh which is corrupted by sin, but in the spirit which has been made one with God (verses avilable upon request). What is left for those in whom Christ resides is to walk in lock step with Him as He leads, guides, teaches, directs, corrects, and comforts us from the depths of our own hearts (verses avilable upon request). That is the only way to thwart the lusts of the flesh and enjoy the fruits of the Spirit (verses avilable upon request).

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

The Passages you referred to: Galatians 1:6-7; Galatians 3:1-14; Galatians 4:21; Galatians 5:1-6 all refer to the works of the Law. We all agree that we are not saved by the works of the Law, so your whole argument is directed toward a straw man. There is no Christian I am aware of that believes we have to obey the OT Law to be saved.

Paul's letter to the Galatians only indirectly addresses what it takes to be saved. Its focus is almost exclusively on legalistic Christian living (i.e., believing that rightness with God is maintained through obedience to God's laws. In some respects, the Galatian Christian's adoption of legalism did cause Paul some concern that some of them may not have actually been saved, but He did express a bit of confidence that they were actually saved in spite of their adoptian of legalism.

I would argue that legalism exists today and is rampant.

For instance, you list "Galatians 5:1-6," but neglect the rest of "Galatians 5" that plainly teaches what faith in Christ means by which we are saved in contrast to the works of the Law. Paul summarized in that same chapter what faith is by we "belong to Christ," as follows:

Galatians 5:24-25 [Written for Christians] 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with by the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16, 21 (WEB) 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. . . 21 I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Therefore, Christians are to make their calling and election sure by a continued faith and love for Lord Jesus (2 Peter 1:3-11).

You are confusing "works of the Law" with repentance toward God and faith in Lord Jesus (Acts 20:20-21) of which Baptism represents (Romans 6:1-8).

A true Christian does not do works to earn salvation; rather, the good works a Christian does comes from faith by which one's whole life is dead to sin, and now committed to following Lord Jesus. These are the only "Christians" who are saved (Matthew 10:38; John 10:27-28; Hebrews 5:9).

Therefore, if you were baptized; yet, you refuse to listen to and follow Lord Jesus as His disciple, then your baptism means nothing (Matthew 28:19-20).

To hold onto your position, you had to delete from your response the Scriptures I introduced that plainly teach that faith in Christ includes repentance to be saved, and is manifested by turning from sin to God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love, and of which Baptism represents (Roman 6:1-8; Matthew 28:19-20).

Do you really want to delete over half the New Testament so that you can continue to distort the Gospel?

I pick and choose what to address based on what is most likely to help you. For instance, out of all that you wrote above, I see the ideas behind the following exerpts as being most worthy to address...

...faith in Christ includes repentance to be saved, and is manifested by turning from sin to God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love

Your point of view is Legalism 101. It is obvious that turning from sin to God for salvation is required because if a person does not agree with God that their sins earn them eternal damnation and if they do not turn to God for His forgiveness of their sins they cannot be saved. But legalism goes one step further and says that a person's pre-salvation repentance is not genuine unless it is proved genuine "by following Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love". Most of today's legalists recognize this is an impossible standard, so they make provisions for "sins committed in weakness" to be forgiven. But consistent with their legalistic point of view, they make God's forgiveness contingent on their renewed commitment to repent of their sins, as if God doesn't know their commitment is not worth the paper it is written on (Deut 5:29).

... and of which Baptism represents (Roman 6:1-8...).

Baptism is not a picture of repentance. It is a picture of being raised from the dead and passing from death to life. Having died to what we were held by (the law's condemnation because of our sins), we were raised from the dead so that we may be married to Him who died for our sins. Now we serve Him in the newness of life instead of the oldness of the letter of the law.

To test one's salvation, all a person needs to do is to look in his heart and determine if Christ lives in there (2 Cor 13:5). If Christ is you, you are saved; otherwise not (1 Jn 5:12). There are no tests to determine if another person's salvation is genuine, though legalists like to see themselves as fruit inspectors.

 

[setst777]

setst777 said:
The Passages you referred to: Galatians 1:6-7; Galatians 3:1-14; Galatians 4:21; Galatians 5:1-6 all refer to the works of the Law. We all agree that we are not saved by the works of the Law, so your whole argument is directed toward a straw man. There is no Christian I am aware of that believes we have to obey the OT Law to be saved.

Paul's letter to the Galatians only indirectly addresses what it takes to be saved. Its focus is almost exclusively on legalistic Christian living (i.e., believing that rightness with God is maintained through obedience to God's laws. In some respects, the Galatian Christian's adoption of legalism did cause Paul some concern that some of them may not have actually been saved, but He did express a bit of confidence that they were actually saved in spite of their adoptian of legalism.

I agree that "Galatians" main purpose is to counter legalism. However, Paul also gives good teaching that contrasts faith with legalism; in that, while legalism centers on obeying The Law to be saved, "faith," if genuine, means that we have been crucified with Christ; and so, we now have died to sin and live for him.

Galatians 2:19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Galatians 5:16, 21 (WEB) 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. . . 21 I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Galatians 5:24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with by the Spirit.

And so, rather than working to obey laws, the Christian lives by faith in Lord Jesus, being crucified to the flesh with its passions and lusts, and now lives by the Spirit in a righteous life of good works to be given eternal life by the Spirit.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for what a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

That is the difference between faith and works.

I would argue that legalism exists today and is rampant.

I think legalism is rampant as well, but not in the way you think. While you feel that those who are crucified with Christ, dead to sin, and now live to follow Christ are legalistic, that is not what legalism is according to Paul, and of which I quoted for you in Galatians 2:19-21; Galatians 5:16-21; and Galatians 6:7-9.

A true born-again Christian cannot live in sin.

1 John 3:9 No one born of God continues living in any sin, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

The real legalism in the church is manifest in those who have not been crucified with Christ and do not live for him; but instead, these legalistic Christians do at least some good works, convincing themselves that they are bearing the fruit of faith while still living in sin. This is the real legalism in the church.

The Gospel is being proclaimed to the Gentiles to bring them into the obedience that comes from that true "faith."

Romans 1:5 (NIV) Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

I pick and choose what to address based on what is most likely to help you. For instance, out of all that you wrote above, I see the ideas behind the following exerpts as being most worthy to address...

Your point of view is Legalism 101. It is obvious that turning from sin to God for salvation is required because if a person does not agree with God that their sins earn them eternal damnation and if they do not turn to God for His forgiveness of their sins they cannot be saved.

You say: "It is obvious that turning from sin to God for salvation is required."

Do you know what it means to "turn from sin to God"?

Romans 6:1-4 (WEB) 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer?

Romans 6:22 (WEB) 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

But legalism goes one step further and says that a person's pre-salvation repentance is not genuine unless it is proved genuine "by following Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love".

Baptism represents the true Faith - dead to the old master of sin, and now risen with Christ to a new life living for righteousness as His disciples. These are the "Christians" who are saved.

Romans 6:19 … For as you presented your bodily parts as slaves to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

Romans 6:1-4 (WEB) 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

Baptism means nothing, unless you realize that this water represents our commitment to be buried with Christ, dying to sin, and rising to a new life of righteousness, following Him. That is the whole purpose of the Gospel proclamation:

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you.

 

[Hugo B]

I would like to correct something I said earlier, in relation to the 99 lost sheeps that Jesus talked about in His parable [in Luke 15]. Those sheeps were in the desert. And this is a place where God brings his people to talk to their heart, speak comfortably unto them. As it was when He delivered Israel from Egypt, to bring them to the promised land by faith.
So desert is not a bad thing, but a place that the Lord use to talk to our heart. Because there is no noise, or distraction; there is nothing in the desert. But [unfortunately], only one sheep was lost. Only one needed repentance; not the others.

Kinds regards, in Him,

Hugo

 

[setst777]

-
​

I did not write salvation. I wrote about a specific salvation the "Eternal Life salvation" of people. Which is only received by belief in Jesus (the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth) as Peter states in Acts.

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Regarding the Gospel, do you think that "the faith" by which we possess salvation from sin and death is something different than "the faith" by which we possess eternal life?

Romans 6:19 … For as you presented your bodily parts as slaves to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world produces death.

Hebrews 5:9 being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to everyone who obeys him

The only sheep that Lord Jesus recognizes as His own, and of which he gives Eternal Life, are those sheep who express their faith by listening to and following Him.

John 10:27
My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.
They [who listen and follow him] will never perish, and no one will snatch them [those who listen and follow him] out of my hand.

The sheep who "believe" in the way Lord Jesus defines that faith are the only sheep whom Lord Jesus gives Eternal Life.

 

[setst777]

You are very close. Not of my meaning, but Jesus' meaning. You understood why some sheeps did not need repentance. Because of the law. It makes you think that you are righteous. I mean, see for yourself : if someone put the law in practice, is he relying on God alone, or in himself ?
Does such a man need a Saviour...?

We are saved from sin by the blood of the cross by believing in Lord Jesus.

Romans 3:25 (NIV) God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood – to be received by faith.

We are not saved by the law, but by faith in Lord Jesus in the way Lord Jesus defines "faith" in him; which is:

John 10:27
My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.
They [who listen and follow him] will never perish, and no one will snatch them [those who listen and follow him] out of my hand.

The sheep who "believe" in the way Lord Jesus defines that faith are the only sheep whom Lord Jesus gives Eternal Life.

John 8:12 (WEB) He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

God purchased from sin to become His slaves onto righteousness by faith in Lord Jesus in the way the NT defines "faith."

Romans 6:22 You were set free from sin and have become slaves of God, and you bear the fruit of your sanctification. The result is eternal life.

Hebrews 5:9 being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to everyone who obeys him

 

[d taylor]

Regarding the Gospel, do you think that "the faith" by which we possess salvation from sin and death is something different than "the faith" by which we possess eternal life?

Romans 6:19 … For as you presented your bodily parts as slaves to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world produces death.

Hebrews 5:9 being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to everyone who obeys him

The only sheep that Lord Jesus recognizes as His own, and of which he gives Eternal Life, are those sheep who express their faith by listening to and following Him.

John 10:27
My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.
They [who listen and follow him] will never perish, and no one will snatch them [those who listen and follow him] out of my hand.

The sheep who "believe" in the way Lord Jesus defines that faith are the only sheep whom Lord Jesus gives Eternal Life.

-
​

The way Jesus defines belief, the belief that gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Is just that, it is a person believing Jesus and who He says He is: The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

When a person believes this about Jesus, they receive Eternal Life and become a permanent born again child of God. In other words when a person understands it is belief in Jesus in the person Jesus they can believe in Jesus and receive Eternal Life.

It is the belief, that belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Paul also gives good teaching that contrasts faith with legalism; in that, while legalism centers on obeying The Law to be saved, "faith," if genuine, means that we have been crucified with Christ; and so, we now have died to sin and live for him.

Legalism is thinking that rightness with God comes from one's obedience or is lost through one's disobedience. Both perspectives are based on conforming to the legal requirements of the law. The contrast that Paul makes between legalism and faith are numerous and explicit. Here is one that presents a daunting challenge for legalistic people to overcome:

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” (Ga 3:10–12)​

Galatians 2:19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Galatians 5:16, 21 (WEB) 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. . . 21 I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Galatians 5:24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with by the Spirit.

And so, rather than working to obey laws, the Christian lives by faith in Lord Jesus, being crucified to the flesh with its passions and lusts, and now lives by the Spirit in a righteous life of good works to be given eternal life by the Spirit.

It is your last statement that draws my attention... you think that eternal life is given to those who live a righteous life of good works. That is legalism. The opposite is actually true. Sinners who agree with God that they are deserving of eternal damnation because of their sins and follow His directions to trust in Christ for forgiveness of their sins, 1) are forgiven all their sins, and 2) receive eternal life. Their forgiveness and their eternal life are not related in any way to their good works, but is only the product of God's grace.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for what a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

That is the difference between faith and works.

Works produces wages and wages are earned. This is what you describe in your analysis of Galatians 6:7-9.

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness (Ro 4:4–5)​

One person thinks he is going to earn eternal life at the end of a life well-lived. another person is not working to earn rightness with God through a life well lived but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly. The first doesn't get what he seeks, but the second does. This is the difference between works and faith.

I think legalism is rampant as well, but not in the way you think. While you feel that those who are crucified with Christ, dead to sin, and now live to follow Christ are legalistic, that is not what legalism is according to Paul, and of which I quoted for you in Galatians 2:19-21; Galatians 5:16-21; and Galatians 6:7-9.

A true born-again Christian cannot live in sin.

And of course your definition of "live in sin" is relativistic, so that some people's numerous and often repeated sins are not counted against them but other peoples' are.

1 John 3:9 No one born of God continues living in any sin, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

I have addressed this wattered down view of 1 John 3:9 that gives wiggle room for legalistic people to judge that their sins to not count against them but gives them room to condemn other people for their sins.

The real legalism in the church is manifest in those who have not been crucified with Christ and do not live for him; but instead, these legalistic Christians do at least some good works, convincing themselves that they are bearing the fruit of faith while still living in sin. This is the real legalism in the church.

And, as I've said, legalistic people like to see themselves as fruit inspectors, passing judgment on everyone else's salvation while giving themselves a pass.

The Gospel is being proclaimed to the Gentiles to bring them into the obedience that comes from that true "faith."

Romans 1:5 (NIV) Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

The NIV does have a few mistranslations that lead people astray.

You say: "It is obvious that turning from sin to God for salvation is required."

Do you know what it means to "turn from sin to God"?

Romans 6:1-4 (WEB) 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer?

Romans 6:22 (WEB) 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

It's interesting that you don't understand that these verses establish the impossibility that a person who has died to sin could live in it afterward (Ro 6:2) and the certainty that one who has been freed from sin and has become a slave of righteousness (Ro 6:18) and of God (Ro 6:22) have eternal life right now (Ro 6:22).

But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. (Ro 6:22)​

Instead, you make our death to sin and our freedom from sin conditional states which do not always achieve their very purpose.

Baptism represents the true Faith - dead to the old master of sin, and now risen with Christ to a new life living for righteousness as His disciples. These are the "Christians" who are saved.

Romans 6:19 … For as you presented your bodily parts as slaves to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

Romans 6:1-4 (WEB) 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

Baptism means nothing, unless you realize that this water represents our commitment to be buried with Christ, dying to sin, and rising to a new life of righteousness, following Him. That is the whole purpose of the Gospel proclamation:

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you.

As if baptism, or circumcision, or participating in the Lord's supper, or any other rite or ritual is anything more than a picture of the real thing that Christ does for us when He comes to live in our hearts.

 

[setst777]

The way Jesus defines belief, the belief that gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Is just that, it is a person believing Jesus and who He says He is: The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.​

When a person believes this about Jesus, they receive Eternal Life and become a permanent born again child of God. In other words when a person understands it is belief in Jesus in the person Jesus they can believe in Jesus and receive Eternal Life.

It is the belief, that belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life.

So, you are just going to ignore all those Scriptures that repeatedly define the faith by which we are saved, and instead opt for a head knowledge belief about Lord Jesus in the Gospel? Do not even the demons believe and shudder?

According to the Gospel that Lord Jesus commanded to be preached to all nations, does faith include repentance to be forgiven and saved?

Luke 24:47 The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret.

According to the Gospel that Lord Jesus commanded to be preached to all nations, does faith include being a disciple (follower) of Lord Jesus?

Matthew 28:19 Go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them [disciples] in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them [disciples] to obey all things that I commanded you.

Lord Jesus was very clear in explaining the faith by which we are saved.

John 10:27 My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.

John 8:12 (WEB) He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him must also walk just like he walked.

 

[setst777]

Legalism is thinking that rightness with God comes from one's obedience or is lost through one's disobedience. Both perspectives are based on conforming to the legal requirements of the law. The contrast that Paul makes between legalism and faith are numerous and explicit. Here is one that presents a daunting challenge for legalistic people to overcome:

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” (Ga 3:10–12)​

Once again, no Christian on this board is teaching that we are saved by the works of the Law. That is a strawman argument.

This "Gospel Faith" is demonstrated by following Lord Jesus into good works.

Matthew 28:19 Go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them [disciples] in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them [disciples] to obey all things that I commanded you.

If your faith does not lead you to be his disciple, following him, your faith is dead.

John 10:27 My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

It is your last statement that draws my attention... you think that eternal life is given to those who live a righteous life of good works. That is legalism.

No, that is not legalism, that is the Gospel. If one's faith does not lead to a righteous life of Good Works, then his faith is dead, and he does not have the Spirit.

Acts 26:20 I preached that they should repent and turn to God [conversion] and manifest their repentance by their deeds.

Romans 1:5 (NIV) Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his work, created in Christ Jesus unto good works that God hath prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Galatians 6:8-9 But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

The opposite is actually true. Sinners who agree with God that they are deserving of eternal damnation because of their sins and follow His directions to trust in Christ for forgiveness of their sins, 1) are forgiven all their sins, and 2) receive eternal life. Their forgiveness and their eternal life are not related in any way to their good works, but is only the product of God's grace.

The only ones forgiven are those who, after hearing the Gospel, repent and turn from sin to God, following Lord Jesus by faith.

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted [turned], that your sins may be blotted out

Luke 24:47 Repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Works produces wages and wages are earned. This is what you describe in your analysis of Galatians 6:7-9.

Just read what it says:

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for what a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness (Ro 4:4–5)​

One person thinks he is going to earn eternal life at the end of a life well-lived. another person is not working to earn rightness with God through a life well lived but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly. The first doesn't get what he seeks, but the second does. This is the difference between works and faith.

Strawman argument. No one is teaching that we are saved by works.

And of course your definition of "live in sin" is relativistic, so that some people's numerous and often repeated sins are not counted against them but other peoples' are.
I have addressed this wattered down view of 1 John 3:9 that gives wiggle room for legalistic people to judge that their sins to not count against them but gives them room to condemn other people for their sins.

Just read what it states:

1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children [addressing and warning Christians], let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 Whoever continues in sin is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God continues to live in sin, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot live in sin, because he has been born of God.

And, as I've said, legalistic people like to see themselves as fruit inspectors, passing judgment on everyone else's salvation while giving themselves a pass.

No one is passing judgment. The Scriptures do that for us.

1 John 2:3 We [Christians] know that we know him if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has surely been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him must walk just like he walked.

The NIV does have a few mistranslations that lead people astray.

It's interesting that you don't understand that these verses establish the impossibility that a person who has died to sin could live in it afterward (Ro 6:2) and the certainty that one who has been freed from sin and has become a slave of righteousness (Ro 6:18) and of God (Ro 6:22) have eternal life right now (Ro 6:22).

The only "Christians who have eternal life are described in Romans 6.

Romans 6:21-22
21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

You will not take part in the resurrection of Lord Jesus unless you die with Christ to sin, and rise to a new life of righteousness.

Romans 6:1 What should we conclude then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 And so, we were buried with him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection

 

[d taylor]

So, you are just going to ignore all those Scriptures that repeatedly define the faith by which we are saved, and instead opt for a head knowledge belief about Lord Jesus in the Gospel? Do not even the demons believe and shudder?

According to the Gospel that Lord Jesus commanded to be preached to all nations, does faith include repentance to be forgiven and saved?

Luke 24:47 The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret.

According to the Gospel that Lord Jesus commanded to be preached to all nations, does faith include being a disciple (follower) of Lord Jesus?

Matthew 28:19 Go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them [disciples] in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them [disciples] to obey all things that I commanded you.

Lord Jesus was very clear in explaining the faith by which we are saved.

John 10:27 My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.

John 8:12 (WEB) He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him must also walk just like he walked.

-
​

No i never ignore verses i just do not take verses that are addressed to believers and try to make them address. What an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Just because the word saved is used in a verse or verses do not mean the salvation is an eternal life salvation.

You should take easy to understand verses and the context.. So you can learn what other verses are saying when they are addressed to believers.

 

[setst777]

No i never ignore verses i just do not take verses that are addressed to believers and try to make them address. What an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Just because the word saved is used in a verse or verses do not mean the salvation is an eternal life salvation.​

You should take easy to understand verses and the context.. So you can learn what other verses are saying when they are addressed to believers.

Sure, Eternal Life is God's Free Gift of Grace.
And God graciously chooses to give that free gift, that we cannot earn, by a "faith" in the way God defines that "faith."

"Faith" is not open to your interpretation. God defines "faith," not you. When you ignore all the Scriptures by which God explains to us the faith he accepts, you do yourself harm.

You separate eternal life from salvation as if the two are not related. The Gospel Word does not make that distinction.

John 3:16-17 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

Salvation is to:

• Have Eternal Life (John 3:16-17)
• To Belong to Christ - only by faith manifested by crucifying the flesh (Galatians 5:24-25)
• To Take Part in the Resurrection of Lord Jesus - only by faith manifested by dying to sin and living in righteousness (Romans 6:1-6)

Therefore, this salvation, which is eternal life, is only by faith manifested by renouncing sin and to follow Lord Jesus into a sanctified life or righteousness and love.

Matthew 10:38 He who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

The only faith by which we receive Eternal Life is a faith by which we listen to and follow Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love.

John 10:27 My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.

Romans 6:21-22
21What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for what a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Romans 3:7-9
7 To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and incorruptibility – Eternal Life

1 Timothy 6:11-12
11 But you, man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith. Take hold of the Eternal Life to which you were called, and you confessed the good confession in the sight of many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 (WEB) 18 … that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to share; 19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of Eternal Life.

 

[d taylor]

Sure, Eternal Life is God's Free Gift of Grace.
And God graciously chooses to give that free gift, that we cannot earn, by a "faith" in the way God defines that "faith."

"Faith" is not open to your interpretation. God defines "faith," not you. When you ignore all the Scriptures by which God explains to us the faith he accepts, you do yourself harm.

You separate eternal life from salvation as if the two are not related. The Gospel Word does not make that distinction.

John 3:16-17 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

Salvation is to:

• Have Eternal Life (John 3:16-17)
• To Belong to Christ - only by faith manifested by crucifying the flesh (Galatians 5:24-25)
• To Take Part in the Resurrection of Lord Jesus - only by faith manifested by dying to sin and living in righteousness (Romans 6:1-6)

Therefore, this salvation, which is eternal life, is only by faith manifested by renouncing sin and to follow Lord Jesus into a sanctified life or righteousness and love.

Matthew 10:38 He who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

The only faith by which we receive Eternal Life is a faith by which we listen to and follow Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love.

John 10:27 My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them [who listen and follow him] Eternal Life.

Romans 6:21-22
21What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for what a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Romans 3:7-9
7 To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and incorruptibility – Eternal Life

1 Timothy 6:11-12
11 But you, man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith. Take hold of the Eternal Life to which you were called, and you confessed the good confession in the sight of many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 (WEB) 18 … that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to share; 19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of Eternal Life.

-
​

Well the verse posting game can be played over and over, but lets cut to the chase.

So you tell me a person walks up to you and ask i want Eternal Life and to become a born again child of God.
And you say to them they must do what?

 

[fhansen]

Yes, salvation through good works needs an obligation. But Romans 8:12-14 does not provide it. It does not say we have an obligation, it says we are not under obligation to the flesh.

No, it says that we have an obligation- that we are debtors-to God, obliged to overcome the flesh by the Spirit because the flesh doesn’t submit to God’s law. God’s law is good, holy, right, and spiritual according to Rom 7, but it cannot effect holiness is us because even though it reflects God’s will for man it’s still just a set of rules, and that’s the POINT!! That’s why the law is only a curse at the end of the day because it can only reveal what’s wrong with us but cannot correct that situation-cannot make us right!! Only God can do that-and we’re alienated from him in our fallen state. A new righteousness, the real thing, has arrived on the scene, that can make you holy, as you were created to be. Your part in this is to say yes, to get on board and unite with God the Trinity through His Son and the reconciliation with God that He brings to the table for us. And that “yes” first of all means to respond to the gift of faith, by accepting and acting upon it.

Read Rom 8 for carefully, for yourself. It can help shed light on the rest of Romans, and the whole New Testament as well.

 

[fhansen]

Legalism is thinking that rightness with God comes from one's obedience or is lost through one's disobedience.

Legalism is in thinking that mere observance of the law, whether the removal of a little piece of flesh from the body or the external obedience of the moral law, the commandments, can actually make one holy. But that's not true, only God can make one holy. So the critical first step of the New Covenant is reconciliation with God, reversing the alienation from Him within us that Adam initiated. And that reconciliation and the union that results is realized and experienced, from our perspective, by and through and on the basis of faith.

 

[setst777]

Well the verse posting game can be played over and over, but lets cut to the chase.​

Posting verses only becomes a game to the one who thinks he can refute Passages by quoting other Passages, or ignoring all the Passages that disagree with their own interpretations.

So, if your interpretation of Faith, Eternal Life, and Salvation does not match what the Scriptures teach that these terms mean, then will you ignore the Scriptural teaching so you can hold onto your own interpretations?

What I posted are the Scriptures that harmonize with all other Scriptures regarding the meaning of "The Faith," and how we must be saved - eternal life.

So you tell me a person walks up to you and ask i want Eternal Life and to become a born again child of God.
And you say to them they must do what?​

What did Lord Jesus command as the Great Commission of the Gospel that should be preached to all nations?

Luke 24:47 The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations

Matthew 28:19-20 Go now and make disciples [true believers] of all nations. . . teaching them to obey all things I have commanded you.

Luke 5:32 (WEB) I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

What did God command that we are to do?

Acts 17:30 God commands all people everywhere to repent

What did the Apostle Paul preach everywhere as the Gospel call?

Acts 20:20 [I have] taught you publicly and from house to house, 21 earnestly declaring to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God [conversion] in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem, in all Judea, and to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God [conversion] and manifest their repentance by their deeds.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation

What did the Apostle Peter teach as the Gospel Call?

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted [turned], that your sins may be blotted out

1 Peter 2:24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness [conversion]

WHY is a new convert, a believer, baptized?

Romans 6:1-6 (WEB)
1 What should we conclude then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 And so, we were buried with him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection

Romans 6:19-22 … 19 For as you presented your bodily parts as slaves to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become slaves of God, the fruit you bear is in sanctification and the result is Eternal Life.

That is what I would tell them too.

 

[fhansen]

The most simple of all sins (eating a piece of fruit which was forbidden) caused Adam and Eve to lose their lives and put them and their descendants in peril of eternal damnation. But for your theology to work, a person's little sins must not be counted against him. For the life of me, I do not understand how people can ignore their failures and think their persistence in doing good will gain them eternal life. Even if a person thinks this, I do not understand why he would not express hope in his past, present, and potential future failures might be blotted out by God forgiving them. To place all one's hope in himself therefore seems foolish.

While Adam's sin was certainly not the most grievous of sins compared to those uglier sins that followed his first one, his opened the door to all the rest, including Cain slaying Able almost right off the bat. Either way, John was already distinguishing between sin, sin that leads to death versus sin that doesn't. Sin that leads to death is considered to be sin that is so grievous that it opposes love of God and neighbor by its nature and destroys love within us. All sin tends towards that but we must be overcoming those deeds of the flesh as, for example, listed in Galatians 5 and Revelation 21 and 22 that most certainly will exclude you from heaven. We must be on the "journey to perfection" as it's been called, a journey of overcoming sin, no longer being enslaved to it (Rom 6).

With Jesus Christ in our hearts, we have been joined to Him (1 Co 6:17), have become one spirit with Him (1 Co 6:17), and have "become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Co 5:21). This is why it is said that "the new man" was "created" "according to God" "in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). It is real, it is not simply imputed or declared. But our sins are covered, removed, forgiven, and not counted against us. In this respect, He declares and imputes righteousness to us in spite of our sins

So this leads to a reasonable question. Does becoming "the righteousness of God in Him" entail strictly a declaration or imputation of that righteousness, the acquittal of sin only , IOW, or are we also now enabled in some manner to overcome sin, to become holy? Does His righteousness become ours? Or if justification before God means only the appearance of holiness in His eyes does it matter at all whether we still wantonly and gravely sin as long as we have faith? Reading the third chapter of 1 John or chapters 5 and 6 of Galatians, I doubt that either John or Paul would have any sympathy for the sinlessness of a "virtual perfect man" while another part of us is sinnng away willfully.

 

[fhansen]

You have a fixation on Catholic tradition. I have fixed my attention on the Spirit of God who leads, guides, teaches, directs, corrects, and comforts me from the depths of my own heart. This is the only way to live a successful Christian life. This is what God is leading people everywhere to do today, and it is what He has been doing ever since He first took up residence in people's hearts after Jesus' resurrection. So no, I'm not giving up what I have for what you have.

You have a fixation on a novel theology IMO, similar to mine as a Protestant though with a somewhat different flavor. I just came to be impressed, after many years and to my own surprise, with the original basic teachings of the church, consistent between the the EO, ECFs, and the RCC.

I embrace all of these verses. The difference is that I see the righteousness we have in Christ as permanent and not subject to loss because it is "true righteousness and holiness" that is just as impervious to sin and just as incorruptible by sin as God is (verses avilable upon request). It does not exist in the flesh which is corrupted by sin, but in the spirit which has been made one with God (verses avilable upon request). What is left for those in whom Christ resides is to walk in lock step with Him as He leads, guides, teaches, directs, corrects, and comforts us from the depths of our own hearts (verses avilable upon request). That is the only way to thwart the lusts of the flesh and enjoy the fruits of the Spirit (verses avilable upon request).

As I see it you have to throw out half the verses that apply to eternal life in order to ignore those that require obedience, even though that obedience is only made possible due to the sacrifice of God's Son.