Politico's post-debate analysis says that Vance's beard is representative of aggression

[ralliann]

They have used his own words against him,not a false narrative.

Oh, he said he has a beard because he is aggressive?

 

[Fantine]

No, the crazy cat lady comments, the idea that parents should get more votes than non-parents.
His comment that DJT participated in a peaceful transfer of power in 2021 when he clearly still believes the election was stolen.
Statements like that.

Oh, he said he has a beard because he is aggressive?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

My wife was not impressed with Vance's eyeliner. I did not notice, but I'll defer to a woman on this point : )

I can’t decide if it’s eyeliner or just really thick eyelashes. But, yes, I noticed it too.

 

[ralliann]

No, the crazy cat lady comments,

What about them?

the idea that parents should get more votes than non-parents.

What did he say?

His comment that DJT participated in a peaceful transfer of power in 2021 when he clearly still believes the election was stolen.

He did peacefully transfer power, and yes a person can believe they were wronged and be peaceful. As is the case here.

Statements like that.

So people got to see the man to assess him themselves.

 

[Always in His Presence]

They have used his own words against him,not a false narrative.

And he is the one who chose to grow that aggressive beard too!

 

[Verv]

Silly women. Thinking that men are more dangerous to them than women and that typical male physical markers may exacerbate that response.

It is factually correct to say that women are more likely to be murdered or sexually assaulted by men, yes, and that is certainly a problem... But what you are basically suggesting is that it's healthy for women to fear beards because it represents masculinity, which is an interesting thread to keep pulling.

We end up reaching a point where men should make efforts to visibly feminize themselves to win the trust of women..! And that women who're physically attracted to men who portray typical masculinity are actually displaying unhealthy behavior.

It seems to promote a fixation on men as a source of negativity in the world rather than a far more moderate approach which takes men as worthwhile, normal members of society.

Or would your suggestion be that men really are not decent members of society, Politico is right..?!

 

[rjs330]

No, the crazy cat lady comments, the idea that parents should get more votes than non-parents.
His comment that DJT participated in a peaceful transfer of power in 2021 when he clearly still believes the election was stolen.
Statements like that.

Except it's been proven that his childless cat lady cimment was true.

I provided statistics that showed that 38% of Democrat voters are childless, more than Republicans. Democrats also are more likely to own cats than Republicans.

Women tilt more toward voting Democrat. Single women are more likely to vote Democrat by a large margine.

If you put all of this together it's obvious that childless cat ladies are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican.

It can't be denied. He's right. Statistics prove it.

Trump did peacefully relinquish the presidency. He's right about that too.

Should people who have kids get more votes? Well that's just an opinion. I don't happen to agree with it. We all have opinions that others don't agree with. Lord knows i don't agree with Walz opinion on abortion. Vances opinion is no more strange than opinions of many democrats on various issues.

 

[Fantine]

Jack Smith's release of evidence of Trump's crimes "as a private citizen" shows that he tried to seize the presidency by force.
And "cat lady" is a slur. Most pet owners aren't eccentric animal hoarders--and neither are childless women.
Vance lied almost as much as Trump in debate. He was just more polished about it.

 

[Palmfever]

I saw Santa beat his reindeer once when they came to close to a chimney and scratched his sleigh.
I was terrified.
And a bit drunk.
Coulda been Mrs Claus driving.

 

[rambot]

It is factually correct to say that women are more likely to be murdered or sexually assaulted by men, yes, and that is certainly a problem... But what you are basically suggesting is that it's healthy for women to fear beards because it represents masculinity, which is an interesting thread to keep pulling.

No. I'm not saying that at all.
It is a considered a subconscious bias.

We end up reaching a point where men should make efforts to visibly feminize themselves to win the trust of women..! And that women who're physically attracted to men who portray typical masculinity are actually displaying unhealthy behavior.

It seems to promote a fixation on men as a source of negativity in the world rather than a far more moderate approach which takes men as worthwhile, normal members of society.

So just to back up...
Who perpetrated more violence against women:
Men or women?

 

[Verv]

No. I'm not saying that at all.
It is a considered a subconscious bias.

I've heard it said that the males of K-Pop may actually feminize themselves to appeal to teenage girls that feel estranged by the sharp masculinity of their fathers and other male authority figures, and that it likewise has an appeal to Korean men who embrace a more effeminate experience as a rebellion against forced conscription and the high expectations of men, both of these being subconscious bias.

So just to back up...
Who perpetrated more violence against women:
Men or women?

Men - and who perpetrates far more violence on whites...

Whites, or blacks? Quite famously, blacks are far more likely to be involved in violent crime.

If making society acutely aware of the disproportionate amount of male violence on women is justifiable, then certainly you would also support making society at every turn more aware of the far greater rate of black violence than white violence, right?

Or is it only useful to focus on male violence, but not black violence?

Imagine talking about someone's choice to dress more 'urban' being perceived as aggressive to whites.

And what of domestic violence in same sex relationships?

Is violence more common in same-sex relationships?

A study in the US suggests that same-sex relationships suffer higher levels of domestic violence than heterosexual ones. Why is this and how are victims being helped?

www.bbc.com

LOL imagine also a butched out woman as signaling aggression towards other women.

These would all be fun ways to analyze appearances, but also clearly problematic and harmful...

But I guess we can all take a pause and think about how JD Vance's beard may be toxic & problematic because of Ye Olde Gender Violence gap.

 

[Verv]

Vance lied almost as much as Trump in debate. He was just more polished about it.

We know how this works:

If a statement that a Republican makes cannot be an unqualified 100% agreed upon truth, it is treated as a lie.

Whereas the opposite is true for Democrats: highly problematic and contentious statements that are misleading can be given the 'Needs context' label, while anything that a Republican says that is even likely true but can be contended is miscast as if it is an absolute lie.

You can't turn your whole strategy for public disucssion into just boldly asserting "They Lie..!" and think of yourself as contributing to our democracy.

 

[Fantine]

You can't turn your whole strategy for public disucssion into just boldly asserting "They Lie..!" and think of yourself as contributing to our democracy.

No, you can't. But there are absolute standards to which statements can be compared.
"Alternative facts" are lies.
Example: 165 pages of evidence that Trump did not "peacefully hand over the presidency" on January 6.

A TV commercial with a split screen showing the attack on the Capitol while Vance talks about the peaceful transfer of power pretty much seals the deal.

 

[ralliann]

No, you can't. But there are absolute standards to which statements can be compared.
"Alternative facts" are lies.
Example: 165 pages of evidence that Trump did not "peacefully hand over the presidency" on January 6.

There was no handing over of the presidency on Jan 6th

A TV commercial with a split screen showing the attack on the Capitol while Vance talks about the peaceful transfer of power pretty much seals the deal.

Did it show jan 20? That was the transfer.

 

[rambot]

Men - and who perpetrates far more violence on whites...

On whites?
Whites.

Whites, or blacks? Quite famously, blacks are far more likely to be involved in violent crime.

Against their own foe sure.

If making society acutely aware of the disproportionate amount of male violence on women is justifiable, then certainly you would also support making society at every turn more aware of the far greater rate of black violence than white violence,

I'll tell you now the percentage of white people who've been victimized by black people is lower than women victimized by men.

Or is it only useful to focus on male violence, but not black violence?

You haven't shown that whites have a reason to be scared of blacks.


What are you talking about "only"? In an attempt to discredit the argument as weak as it is, you create strawman.

Are you that offended that men are more dangerous than women?

Imagine talking about someone's choice to dress more 'urban' being perceived as aggressive to whites.

I heard those white people doing exactly that all through the 90s. Lol.

And what of domestic violence in same sex relationships?

Its high for sure. I was surprised to find that out a whole ago too. Not really appropros of anything other than trying to deflect attention away from men.
And they are a small minority of women.

Is violence more common in same-sex relationships?

A study in the US suggests that same-sex relationships suffer higher levels of domestic violence than heterosexual ones. Why is this and how are victims being helped?

www.bbc.com

LOL imagine also a butched out woman as signaling aggression towards other women.

for some, it would. Id wager more than a few men feel the same.

These would all be fun ways to analyze appearances, but also clearly problematic

None of the examples you give compare in data to rhe men v women.

But I guess we can all take a pause and think about how JD Vance's beard may be toxic & problematic because of Ye Olde Gender Violence gap.

Is that what the original article said?

 

[Fantine]

He did not attend the Inauguration. Instead he left the White House with hundreds of boxes of classified material, some of which he refused to hand over to the FBI, forcing them to get a warrant and search every nook and cranny of Mar a Lago to retrieve.
He continued to repeat the lie that the election was stolen after 64 separate legal decisions proved he lost in a fair election--with the largest popular vote loss in history.

 

[ozso]

This is when wearing a beard is okay:

 

[Verv]

On whites?
Whites.




Against their own foe sure.

I'll tell you now the percentage of white people who've been victimized by black people is lower than women victimized by men.




You haven't shown that whites have a reason to be scared of blacks.

Right - it is always the case that violence tends to be intraracial since cross-racial associations are less common than intraracial associations, and so what does that really mean for whites, though?

Blacks, who hurt and abuse other blacks in spite of their similarities, are probably quite alright with hurting non-blacks. There's probably nothing special about intra-black relationships that cause blacks to hate one another, just like violence between whites is not triggered generally by any sort of self-hatred (although white Americans are given plenty of indoctrination aiming at instilling a sense of self-hatred via white guilt)...

So why should whites feel comfortable closely associating with the group with the highest crime rate that outstrips their own by far?

Isn't it only logical for whites, Asians, and even other minorities with relatively high crime rates to desire to be at schools that have as few blacks as possible, and as many Asians as possible? Isn't it the case that it is only rational for Whites & Latinos to avoid asking for directions in a black neighborhood, and to rather drive five minutes further and do it in a majority Asian or White neighborhood? For that matter, that is what would be recommended to blacks who also tend to flee black neighborhoods.

It's logical to conclude that being more masculine is low key aggression or alienating to women, then being more black and urban in appearance is low key aggression and alienating to the average citizen who wishes to avoid criminality.

But neither of us believe that.

This is just the conclusion of green lighting irrational fear of masculinity.

I heard those white people doing exactly that all through the 90s. Lol.

Its high for sure. I was surprised to find that out a whole ago too. Not really appropros of anything other than trying to deflect attention away from men.
And they are a small minority of women.


for some, it would. Id wager more than a few men feel the same.

None of the examples you give compare in data to rhe men v women.

Is that what the original article said?

I don't do line-for-line replies, BTW. It takes too much time. So, I put the most relevant response under the most relevant quote.

 

[Verv]

No, you can't. But there are absolute standards to which statements can be compared.
"Alternative facts" are lies.
Example: 165 pages of evidence that Trump did not "peacefully hand over the presidency" on January 6.

A TV commercial with a split screen showing the attack on the Capitol while Vance talks about the peaceful transfer of power pretty much seals the deal.

If Trump did not peacefully hand over the Presidency, then why did he peacefully hand over the Presidency?

At no point was Trump violent nor did he order anybody to violently resist the process.

The reason there is a 165 page report and zero indictments is because a group of investigators meticulously studied the entire situation as extensively as possible and could not even bring forward a reasonable indictment saying that Trump violently resisted removal from office, it's a very bizarre claim - so bizarre that it takes 165 pages of speculation and decontextualized quotations and hearsay to begin to make the case, lol.

But keep watching the news in split screen to try to affirm your biases.

You're saving democracy.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Bottom line?
If all they can do is criticize his beard... he won the debate, hands down.
He did a great job selling Trump.
Waltz seemed to be continually on the defensive, and Vance controlled the conversation.