What is Hell?

[Adventist Heretic]

Hell is a Chamber or Dungeon of Darkness

2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Notice: they are “eternal” until. In other words, they are PERMANATELY bound until the day of Judgment. Not “Forever chained in gloomy darkness” because they are not forever chained in gloomy darkness. The word eternal does not mean time or forever in time. It talks about the unchanging nature of something or its permanent nature, not the longevity of the thing being described.
Strong's Greek: 126. ἀΐδιος (aidios) -- everlasting notice the word is the same as “aionos”

Hear are some other translations with a varied interpretation of the word.
New Living Translation
And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment.

Catholic Public Domain Version
And truly, the Angels, who did not keep to their first place, but instead abandoned their own domiciles, he has reserved with perpetual chains under darkness, unto the great day of judgment.

 

[eleos1954]

Thank you.
I am glad you understand this.
Some persons seem to think God is like human that relish in and delight in the suffering of wicked people, and so they put their thinking, as God's thinking.

The scriptures however, shows that God does not even delight in anyone's death. Ezekiel 18:32
He even shows how he feels, by saying, through his son, that he is generous to all - giving sun and rain to both good and evil. Matthew 5:45
If God does not delight in the death of someone wicked, how much less would he delight in anyone being tortured eternally.
Jeremiah 7:31


This is just another lie of Satan, to paint God as wicked - no better than those he dishes out justice to.

Some persons seem to think God is like human that relish in and delight in the suffering of wicked people, and so they put their thinking, as God's thinking.

Most people I know instinctively know torture is NOT ok .... yet they will believe that God will do it ... and for eternity ... it's nonsensical to think this ... and besides scripture does not teach God having an eternal torture chamber of some kind.

This is just another lie of Satan, to paint God as wicked - no better than those he dishes out justice to.

This "burning place" teaching Absolutely is of satan .... keeps people from coming to the Lord.

 

[CoreyD]

Hell is a Chamber or Dungeon of Darkness

2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Notice: they are “eternal” until. In other words, they are PERMANATELY bound until the day of Judgment. Not “Forever chained in gloomy darkness” because they are not forever chained in gloomy darkness. The word eternal does not mean time or forever in time. It talks about the unchanging nature of something or its permanent nature, not the longevity of the thing being described.
Strong's Greek: 126. ἀΐδιος (aidios) -- everlasting notice the word is the same as “aionos”

Hear are some other translations with a varied interpretation of the word.
New Living Translation
And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment.

Catholic Public Domain Version
And truly, the Angels, who did not keep to their first place, but instead abandoned their own domiciles, he has reserved with perpetual chains under darkness, unto the great day of judgment.

If the Greek words Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna are all heel, how do you tell the difference, and what each Greek word used represents?
Have you ever research each word outside a Bible translation such as, the KJV, or similar?

 

[CoreyD]

I'm not sure what you are asking. If someone already has a deep study of the Bible, then it should not be a problem to dive deeper into the Bible.

If they are investigating what happens after we die, there are plenty of Scriptures on that besides Revelation. I only used Matthew 25 as one source since it contrasts eternal life with eternal punishment.

Are Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities being punished eternally, in a "hellfire"?
Jude 1:7
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

 

[CoreyD]

Is Lazarus in Jesus' parable, Jesus' friend Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead?
Luke 16:19-21

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.​

No. Jesus used a poor beggar, to show that the Gentiles looked down upon by the money loving Pharisees, would gain God's favor, and go ahead into the kingdom, Matthew 21:23-46 Whereas, they - the Jewish leaders representing the nation of Israel - would not enter. Matthew 8:5-12

 

[Adventist Heretic]

If the Greek words Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna are all heel, how do you tell the difference, and what each Greek word used represents?
Have you ever research each word outside a Bible translation such as, the KJV, or similar?

I looked at all the translations available Bible hub and before I posted and I looked at the Greek. Since I know Greek.

 

[HarleyER]

Are Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities being punished eternally, in a "hellfire"?
Jude 1:7
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

I think probably the very best way to understand hell (or the lake of fire) is what Vircrucis posted in post #53. I think his is an excellent understanding.

Hell is a place where God is but there is no more grace given to those who have rejected Him. He has turned His face away from the unbelievers. God just leaves the unbeliever to their own devices. The unbeliever is forever left alone in darkness along with Satan and his demons.

Somehow you think that people don't wish to be in this state. They might not like the circumstances. They might even question the fairness of it all. But in the end, they have no desire to serve God even if it means being in hell. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man never asked Abraham if he could leave hell and join the feast. He only asked for a drop of water to quench his thrist. As John Milton stated, "It is better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."

God doesn't have to punish anyone just like He does bring evil on people. God will turn unbelievers over to their own devices and let them have exactly what they want. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah, after confronting the angels and Lot, still was bent on sodimizing the angels of God. So think of what hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want.

 

[rturner76]

"Away" is a relative idea in a reality where God is "all and in all."

It's like with newer Christians, they think God has abandoned them, but sin is covering their means of perceiving God.

So would you say that God is present but he does not show himself to the condemned? Heaven and Hell stuff can confuse me. There are different interpretations of certain scripture but overall I get the idea that God separated the lambs from the goats and we can't really know exactly how that in made manifest when considering the afterlife.

 

[CoreyD]

I looked at all the translations available Bible hub and before I posted and I looked at the Greek. Since I know Greek.

Great! Which means you are able to answer my question better than most can. My question was, If the Greek words Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna are all heel hell, how do you tell the difference, and what each Greek word used, represents?
I hope the question is not confusing. Let me know if it is, please.

Interestingly, the same translations on github, which render Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna as hell, select specific verses where Hades is found, and render it as "grave", "Hades".

One example is Revelation 20:14.
Only 7 translation render Hades as hell.
Perhaps you can use this verse to explain why hell is the correct rendering instead of grave, or leaving the Greek word untouched, as is the case with many other verses.
8 translations
8 translations
8 translations
6 translations - Luke 16:23
3 translations - Acts 2:27
3 translations - Acts 2:31
5 translations
5 translations

 

[CoreyD]

I think probably the very best way to understand hell (or the lake of fire) is what Vircrucis posted in post #53. I think his is an excellent understanding.

Hell is a place where God is but there is no more grace given to those who have rejected Him. He has turned His face away from the unbelievers. God just leaves the unbeliever to their own devices. The unbeliever is forever left alone in darkness along with Satan and his demons.

Somehow you think that people don't wish to be in this state. They might not like the circumstances. They might even question the fairness of it all. But in the end, they have no desire to serve God even if it means being in hell. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man never asked Abraham if he could leave hell and join the feast. He only asked for a drop of water to quench his thrist. As John Milton stated, "It is better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."

God doesn't have to punish anyone just like He does bring evil on people. God will turn unbelievers over to their own devices and let them have exactly what they want. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah, after confronting the angels and Lot, still was bent on sodimizing the angels of God. So think of what hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want.

Why do you prefer this philosophy?
I hope the reason is not because you agree with it.
The Bible says persons come out of hell. How do you respond to that?

P.S.
@HarleyER is there a reason you are ignoring answering my questions?

 

[HarleyER]

Why do you prefer this philosophy?
I hope the reason is not because you agree with it.
The Bible says persons come out of hell. How do you respond to that?

P.S.
@HarleyER is there a reason you are ignoring answering my questions?

This isn't a "philosophy". This is simply consistent with the way God acts. When Job was afflicted, while Satan performed the deeds, God allowed it to take place.

Deuteronomy 31:17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’​

As far as "the Bible says persons come out of hell", could you be a little more specific with the verses you're referring to?

I believe I've answered you question unless I misunderstood it. You stated:

Are Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities being punished eternally, in a "hellfire"?

God doesn't have to punish anyone just like He does bring evil on people. God will turn unbelievers over to their own devices and let them have exactly what they want. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah, after confronting the angels and Lot, still was bent on sodimizing the angels of God. So think of what hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want.

So, yes, they will find themselves in the lake of fire. They failed to repent of their sins.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So would you say that God is present but he does not show himself to the condemned? Heaven and Hell stuff can confuse me. There are different interpretations of certain scripture but overall I get the idea that God separated the lambs from the goats and we can't really know exactly how that in made manifest when considering the afterlife.

No, God is present, but they just can't see him.

Since they didn't have faith and were resurrected into a body of sin, it's all about perception.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

So, yes, they will find themselves in the lake of fire. They failed to repent of their sins.

the lake of fire does not exist, right now. The illustration proves that eternal does not refer to time, the fire of Sodom and Gomorrah are not continually burning, they are examples. So look at the example, "They have been permanently punished" The fire came down and completed its work, and remains permanently as an illustration of the fate that awaits the wicked.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Great! Which means you are able to answer my question better than most can. My question was, If the Greek words Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna are all heel hell, how do you tell the difference, and what each Greek word used, represents?
I hope the question is not confusing. Let me know if it is, please.

Interestingly, the same translations on github, which render Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna as hell, select specific verses where Hades is found, and render it as "grave", "Hades".

Gehenna is a place of fire where the trash was burned. , associated with the Lake of Fire. The implication is that the wicked are trash and worthless rubbish and will be burned up. The fire is not eternal in the sense that it tortures people forever but consumes them and they are permanently and completely destroyed. Malachi 4:3 "You will tread on the ashes of the wicked." The wicked are trash and will burn to ash.

One example is Revelation 20:14.
Only 7 translation render Hades as hell.
Perhaps you can use this verse to explain why hell is the correct rendering instead of grave, or leaving the Greek word untouched, as is the case with many other verses.
8 translations
8 translations
8 translations
6 translations - Luke 16:23
3 translations - Acts 2:27
3 translations - Acts 2:31
5 translations
5 translations

The word comes from 2 separate words, that mean without form. In this case, the form is the body, so without form means without the body. It is the place you go to without your body. It implies the existence of a body, soul, and spirit.

In the case of the use of grave vs hell, it may be a translator's preference. since they assumed a soul, would depart upon death. so going to the grave was the same as the soul departing. That is what it appears to be.

If you are an SDA or JW you will render it grave since you do not believe a person has a soul, but you believe that are a soul. The soul = the whole person. SDA & JW interpretation. The soul = the part of a person enabling conscience thought, memories, and the will.
Most other Christian.

 

[DamianWarS]

The psalm indicates that God is even there, in the depths.

An alternate reading of the scripture sees the lake of fire as the presence of God.

Those who have been born again, can enjoy it.

Those who haven't, experience torment.

I've entertained the idea that heaven and hell may be the same. A substance may be toxic or inhospitable to some things while at the same time other things thrive. I know fire is often associated with hell but God has also manifested as fire (such as the burning bush) I can throw all manner of things into fire and regardless how perfect or imperfect they are they will burn up just the same, but if it is one with the fire then it thrives inside. For some reason the bush did not burn up, for some reason Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were able to survive the furnace unharmed with a 4th person.

I don't know how the spiritual and physical realms differ with these and fire may not really be fire but just the best physical analog, and I get that, but there is an idea that God's presence is so powerful we cannot survive it without a layer of protection. Tying ropes to the priest's legs as they entered the holy of holies or why God passed by Moses in a manner that Moses could not encounter his face comes to mind. Christ redeems us and makes us holy, and perhaps that holiness makes us of the same substance or allows us to thrive in the presence of God rather than destroy us.

 

[HarleyER]

the lake of fire does not exist, right now. The illustration proves that eternal does not refer to time, the fire of Sodom and Gomorrah are not continually burning, they are examples. So look at the example, "They have been permanently punished" The fire came down and completed its work, and remains permanently as an illustration of the fate that awaits the wicked.

the lake of fire does not exist, right now.

You're right. The lake of fire does not exist right now. It will exist at the end of the age. However, call it hell or whatever, there is a place of punishment that does exist with residents waiting for the lake of fire.

 

[CoreyD]

This isn't a "philosophy". This is simply consistent with the way God acts. When Job was afflicted, while Satan performed the deeds, God allowed it to take place.

Deuteronomy 31:17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’​

This is philosophy:

What does it mean to be un-healed creation? Un-redeemed humanity? What is life without life? It's not good. Is it God literally sending people to a torture chamber forever? Or is it just what it looks like when human beings continue on and on without hope, without healing, without life--as though they are walking and waking corpses. A miserable state, not because God tortures them (God loves all impartially); but because they have chosen to be little more than a machine, devoid of life, devoid of joy, devoid of the good that is found in knowing God.

Is it a separation from God? Can anything ever truly be separate from God who fills all things, and about whom we read in the Psalms, "If I make my bed in She'ol, You are there"? Yet it is existence devoid of God, not because God is not there, or because He has ceased to be Himself--loving--but devoid of God because the life of God has been rejected, life in God has been rejected. It is death-beyond-death; a living death.

Something we simply cannot comprehend, and which Holy Scripture speaks about in various ways to indicate that it is the antithesis to the healing and the whole of a redeemed and renewed creation, a world that has been restored to good life in Christ, and of which all who are in Christ are made partakers through resurrection and life everlasting.

The idea here, is not consistent with scripture.
What is true, is that the people mentioned at Deuteronomy 31:17 - wayward people "will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’"
This is because when God leaves a person or nation, they suffer badly, since they do not have God's protection and blessings. Curses come upon them instead. Deuteronomy 29:22-28; Joshua 24:20; Judges 2:11-15, 19-23; 1 Kings 9:6-9; 1 Chronicles 28:9... etc.

However, that is quite different to saying that "hell", Gehenna, Hades, or the lake of fire, or the final judgment of wicked mankind, will be everlasting life without God. (If I misunderstand, and that is not what is being said, please forgive me, and please explain clearly what is being said)
The Bible does not support that view.
The Bible says the final judgment for the wicked, is total, and complete annihilation - death - from which there will be no returning. Psalm 92:7; Psalm 145:20; Proverbs 2:22; Isaiah 26:14

Please let me know what about this, you disagree with, if anything.

There is something else you can do for me, if you don't mind.
Please explain Revelation 19:19-21 for me. Thanks.

As far as "the Bible says persons come out of hell", could you be a little more specific with the verses you're referring to?

Revelation 20:14

I believe I've answered you question unless I misunderstood it. You stated:
CoreyD said:
Are Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities being punished eternally, in a "hellfire"?

HarleyER said:
God doesn't have to punish anyone just like He does bring evil on people. God will turn unbelievers over to their own devices and let them have exactly what they want. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah, after confronting the angels and Lot, still was bent on sodimizing the angels of God. So think of what hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want.

I cannot think of what "hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want", because I do not understand what you understand hell to be, since you have not answered my question on it.
So, what I decided to do, is answer my question, and then I can tell you what hell will be like.

Hel (from Old Norse: hel, lit. 'underworld') is a female being in Norse mythology who is said to preside over an underworld realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead.

The Old Norse name Hel is identical to the name of the location over which she rules. It stems from the Proto-Germanic feminine noun *haljō- 'concealed place, the underworld' (compare with Gothic halja, Old English hel or hell, Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Old High German hella), itself a derivative of *helan- 'to cover > conceal, hide' (compare with OE helan, OF hela, OS helan, OHG helan).

The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period.

Hell,

1. is not Biblical.
2. is taken from mythology, and used to represent one Hebrew word - Sheol, and three Greek words - Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, in the Bible, which do not convey the idea of the word hell.
   • 
     In the Hebrew scriptures, of the sixty-five times where it is found, Sheol is rendered "grave" thirty-one times; thirty-one times it is rendered "hell", in the Authorized King James Version.
     In the Christian Greek scriptures, Hades is also inconsistently rendered "hell", and "grave".
3. is used conveniently and inconsistently, thus causing confusion, but clearly used to promote an idea that is from folklore.
   • For example, in the verse referred to repeatedly, in this thread to show the inconsistency, and deception of the word usage "hell". Revelation 20:14 reads...
     "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire."
     Of the 32 bible translations on github, only five (5) render Hades, as "hell", while one (1) renders Hades, as "Grave", and all the others leaves the Greek word Hades, as is - Hades... with the exception of the paraphrased Good News Translation, which used "world of the dead".

The Greek word is obviously "grave", which is equivalent to Sheol (grave), which is consistent with scripture. Job 14:13; John 5:28
Those who prefer the word "hell", and who teach that hell is a place of eternal torment, have a problem explaining how hell gives up the dead that were in it.
They also have a problem explaining how "hell" is cast into "hell", since it is cast into the lake of fire, which they agree is Gehenna, which is rendered hell.
So, "hell" is confusion, and those who believe it, cannot explain it, nor explain the confusion away.

The fact that the final outcome for anything in opposition to God is cast into the lake of fire - Gehenna, is proof of total destruction - a complete removal of all that God does not want to exist.
That would be -

• Death - an enemy. 1 Corinthians 15:26
• Hades - the grave, which will no longer be needed, since death will be no more. Revelation 21:3, 4
• The Wild Beast - all the world's governmental authority. Revelation 13:1-18; Revelation 17:6-18
• The False Prophet - Revelation 16:13; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10
• Those whose name is not in the book of life - Revelation 20:15
• Satan the Devil - Revelation 20:10

So, yes, they will find themselves in the lake of fire. They failed to repent of their sins.

Yes, all who are considered wicked, will be gone forever... Never to see them again. Psalm 37:10; Psalm 104:35; Proverbs 2:22; Matthew 25:46; 2 Thessalonians 1:9
That will be wonderful! I'm sure you agree.

 

[CoreyD]

Gehenna is a place of fire where the trash was burned. , associated with the Lake of Fire. The implication is that the wicked are trash and worthless rubbish and will be burned up. The fire is not eternal in the sense that it tortures people forever but consumes them and they are permanently and completely destroyed. Malachi 4:3 "You will tread on the ashes of the wicked." The wicked are trash and will burn to ash.

The word comes from 2 separate words, that mean without form. In this case, the form is the body, so without form means without the body. It is the place you go to without your body. It implies the existence of a body, soul, and spirit.

Can you provide a reference please.

In the case of the use of grave vs hell, it may be a translator's preference. since they assumed a soul, would depart upon death. so going to the grave was the same as the soul departing. That is what it appears to be.

Why do you assume this is based on an assumption, and rendered according to a priori?
To my knowledge, such an assumption is unfounded.

Hebrew Bible

Sheol is mentioned 66 times throughout the Hebrew Bible. The first mentions of Sheol within the text associate it with the state of death, and a sense of eternal finality. Jacob avows that he will "go down to Sheol" still mourning the apparent death of his son Joseph. Later on, the same formula is repeated when describing the sorrow that would befall Jacob should another of his sons, Benjamin, not return to Israel with his remaining brothers.​

​

Sheol makes its next appearance during the episode of Korah in the Book of Numbers. After Korah attempts to rouse the Israelites to rebel against Moses, Moses vows that Yahweh will prove his legitimacy by splitting open the earth to hurl Korah and his conspirators into Sheol. Sure enough, as he finishes his speech, Yahweh splits the earth open, causing Korah, his family, and all of his possessions to, as the text describes it, "enter Sheol alive." In Deuteronomy, Moses sings that the anger of Yahweh is a flame which burns in the "depths" of Sheol, consuming the entire earth from the bottom up.​

​

Subsequent mentions of Sheol in the Tanakh codify it as emblematic of the death which necessitates one's entry into it. 1 Samuel describes Yahweh as the one who brings souls down to Sheol, and 2 Samuel further cements Sheol as humanity's ultimate destination, post-mortem. 1 Kings uses "going down to Sheol" as a metaphor for death, describing those who go down to it both "in peace" and "in blood".​

Why some assume that Sheol is something other than the grave, is due to their belief in the immortality of the soul, and thus, when they see a scripture that refers to the soul going to Sheol, they associate that with a place where the "living immortal soul", is either in a good compartment - Abraham's bosom in Sheol, or a bad compartment - torments.

However, the word Sheol, in the Hebrew Bible was not understood, in the way it is commonly understood... that being in numerous ways.

If you are an SDA or JW you will render it grave since you do not believe a person has a soul, but you believe that are a soul. The soul = the whole person. SDA & JW interpretation. The soul = the part of a person enabling conscience thought, memories, and the will.
Most other Christian.

It may surprise you to know that not only SDA, and JW, understand the Hebrew word Sheol, and the Greek word Hades to mean grave.
There are religions in existence today that have some beliefs in common, because they try to stick with the scriptures, rather than mainstream, or orthodox beliefs. Here is just one of them.

So, is it your belief that the use of the word "grave", or "hell" is based on interpretation. Thanks.
Do you think the Bible can be a reliable source of truth on this subject? 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

 

[Jim Campbell]

....This "burning place" teaching Absolutely is of satan .... keeps people from coming to the Lord.

Consider that in my earlier post I referenced a sermon Jesus pronounced to a group of scoffing Pharisees a message about hell (Heb Sheol) that both he and they knew very well of the Law and Prophets. I will present the following that gave backup delivered by Moses to what Jesus warned those rich lawyers with.
Deu. 32 (KJV) v. 21 "They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this.
28 For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!"

The chapter makes clear God wanted Israel to do what God commanded, but is the righteous judge who can issue a warning before sentencing.
The chapter described Hell and it's affects upon the earth and all life on it. The righteous are spared. We know how it finally came to pass about AD70 at the hands of Romans.

 

[HarleyER]

This is philosophy:




The idea here, is not consistent with scripture.
What is true, is that the people mentioned at Deuteronomy 31:17 - wayward people "will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’"
This is because when God leaves a person or nation, they suffer badly, since they do not have God's protection and blessings. Curses come upon them instead. Deuteronomy 29:22-28; Joshua 24:20; Judges 2:11-15, 19-23; 1 Kings 9:6-9; 1 Chronicles 28:9... etc.

However, that is quite different to saying that "hell", Gehenna, Hades, or the lake of fire, or the final judgment of wicked mankind, will be everlasting life without God. (If I misunderstand, and that is not what is being said, please forgive me, and please explain clearly what is being said)
The Bible does not support that view.
The Bible says the final judgment for the wicked, is total, and complete annihilation - death - from which there will be no returning. Psalm 92:7; Psalm 145:20; Proverbs 2:22; Isaiah 26:14

Please let me know what about this, you disagree with, if anything.

There is something else you can do for me, if you don't mind.
Please explain Revelation 19:19-21 for me. Thanks.


Revelation 20:14


I cannot think of what "hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want", because I do not understand what you understand hell to be, since you have not answered my question on it.
So, what I decided to do, is answer my question, and then I can tell you what hell will be like.

Hel (from Old Norse: hel, lit. 'underworld') is a female being in Norse mythology who is said to preside over an underworld realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead.

The Old Norse name Hel is identical to the name of the location over which she rules. It stems from the Proto-Germanic feminine noun *haljō- 'concealed place, the underworld' (compare with Gothic halja, Old English hel or hell, Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Old High German hella), itself a derivative of *helan- 'to cover > conceal, hide' (compare with OE helan, OF hela, OS helan, OHG helan).

The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period.

Hell,

1. is not Biblical.
2. is taken from mythology, and used to represent one Hebrew word - Sheol, and three Greek words - Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, in the Bible, which do not convey the idea of the word hell.
   • 
     In the Hebrew scriptures, of the sixty-five times where it is found, Sheol is rendered "grave" thirty-one times; thirty-one times it is rendered "hell", in the Authorized King James Version.
     In the Christian Greek scriptures, Hades is also inconsistently rendered "hell", and "grave".
3. is used conveniently and inconsistently, thus causing confusion, but clearly used to promote an idea that is from folklore.
   • For example, in the verse referred to repeatedly, in this thread to show the inconsistency, and deception of the word usage "hell". Revelation 20:14 reads...
     "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire."
     Of the 32 bible translations on github, only five (5) render Hades, as "hell", while one (1) renders Hades, as "Grave", and all the others leaves the Greek word Hades, as is - Hades... with the exception of the paraphrased Good News Translation, which used "world of the dead".

The Greek word is obviously "grave", which is equivalent to Sheol (grave), which is consistent with scripture. Job 14:13; John 5:28
Those who prefer the word "hell", and who teach that hell is a place of eternal torment, have a problem explaining how hell gives up the dead that were in it.
They also have a problem explaining how "hell" is cast into "hell", since it is cast into the lake of fire, which they agree is Gehenna, which is rendered hell.
So, "hell" is confusion, and those who believe it, cannot explain it, nor explain the confusion away.

The fact that the final outcome for anything in opposition to God is cast into the lake of fire - Gehenna, is proof of total destruction - a complete removal of all that God does not want to exist.
That would be -

• Death - an enemy. 1 Corinthians 15:26
• Hades - the grave, which will no longer be needed, since death will be no more. Revelation 21:3, 4
• The Wild Beast - all the world's governmental authority. Revelation 13:1-18; Revelation 17:6-18
• The False Prophet - Revelation 16:13; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10
• Those whose name is not in the book of life - Revelation 20:15
• Satan the Devil - Revelation 20:10

Yes, all who are considered wicked, will be gone forever... Never to see them again. Psalm 37:10; Psalm 104:35; Proverbs 2:22; Matthew 25:46; 2 Thessalonians 1:9
That will be wonderful! I'm sure you agree.

The idea here, is not consistent with scripture.

Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper,

Please let me know what about this, you disagree with, if anything.

Please explain Revelation 19:19-21 for me. Thanks.

There

This is philosophy:




The idea here, is not consistent with scripture.
What is true, is that the people mentioned at Deuteronomy 31:17 - wayward people "will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’"
This is because when God leaves a person or nation, they suffer badly, since they do not have God's protection and blessings. Curses come upon them instead. Deuteronomy 29:22-28; Joshua 24:20; Judges 2:11-15, 19-23; 1 Kings 9:6-9; 1 Chronicles 28:9... etc.

However, that is quite different to saying that "hell", Gehenna, Hades, or the lake of fire, or the final judgment of wicked mankind, will be everlasting life without God. (If I misunderstand, and that is not what is being said, please forgive me, and please explain clearly what is being said)
The Bible does not support that view.
The Bible says the final judgment for the wicked, is total, and complete annihilation - death - from which there will be no returning. Psalm 92:7; Psalm 145:20; Proverbs 2:22; Isaiah 26:14

Please let me know what about this, you disagree with, if anything.

There is something else you can do for me, if you don't mind.
Please explain Revelation 19:19-21 for me. Thanks.


Revelation 20:14


I cannot think of what "hell will be like when God no longer stays His hand and just let people run and do the things they want", because I do not understand what you understand hell to be, since you have not answered my question on it.
So, what I decided to do, is answer my question, and then I can tell you what hell will be like.

Hel (from Old Norse: hel, lit. 'underworld') is a female being in Norse mythology who is said to preside over an underworld realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead.

The Old Norse name Hel is identical to the name of the location over which she rules. It stems from the Proto-Germanic feminine noun *haljō- 'concealed place, the underworld' (compare with Gothic halja, Old English hel or hell, Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Old High German hella), itself a derivative of *helan- 'to cover > conceal, hide' (compare with OE helan, OF hela, OS helan, OHG helan).

The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period.

Hell,

1. is not Biblical.
2. is taken from mythology, and used to represent one Hebrew word - Sheol, and three Greek words - Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, in the Bible, which do not convey the idea of the word hell.
   • 
     In the Hebrew scriptures, of the sixty-five times where it is found, Sheol is rendered "grave" thirty-one times; thirty-one times it is rendered "hell", in the Authorized King James Version.
     In the Christian Greek scriptures, Hades is also inconsistently rendered "hell", and "grave".
3. is used conveniently and inconsistently, thus causing confusion, but clearly used to promote an idea that is from folklore.
   • For example, in the verse referred to repeatedly, in this thread to show the inconsistency, and deception of the word usage "hell". Revelation 20:14 reads...
     "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire."
     Of the 32 bible translations on github, only five (5) render Hades, as "hell", while one (1) renders Hades, as "Grave", and all the others leaves the Greek word Hades, as is - Hades... with the exception of the paraphrased Good News Translation, which used "world of the dead".

The Greek word is obviously "grave", which is equivalent to Sheol (grave), which is consistent with scripture. Job 14:13; John 5:28
Those who prefer the word "hell", and who teach that hell is a place of eternal torment, have a problem explaining how hell gives up the dead that were in it.
They also have a problem explaining how "hell" is cast into "hell", since it is cast into the lake of fire, which they agree is Gehenna, which is rendered hell.
So, "hell" is confusion, and those who believe it, cannot explain it, nor explain the confusion away.

The fact that the final outcome for anything in opposition to God is cast into the lake of fire - Gehenna, is proof of total destruction - a complete removal of all that God does not want to exist.
That would be -

• Death - an enemy. 1 Corinthians 15:26
• Hades - the grave, which will no longer be needed, since death will be no more. Revelation 21:3, 4
• The Wild Beast - all the world's governmental authority. Revelation 13:1-18; Revelation 17:6-18
• The False Prophet - Revelation 16:13; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10
• Those whose name is not in the book of life - Revelation 20:15
• Satan the Devil - Revelation 20:10

Yes, all who are considered wicked, will be gone forever... Never to see them again. Psalm 37:10; Psalm 104:35; Proverbs 2:22; Matthew 25:46; 2 Thessalonians 1:9
That will be wonderful! I'm sure you agree.

The idea here, is not consistent with scripture.

Romans 1:28
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper,

Please let me know what about this, you disagree with, if anything.

The Bible doesn't say that the end of people will be total annihalation. It states rather clearly that it will be eternal punishment. How and in what way that punishment is executed is unknown to us.

Please explain Revelation 19:19-21 for me. Thanks.

I don't explain Revelation. There are far too many views and disagreements on whether it should be taken literally, figurative, etc. It is a very dangerous thing to try to make doctrine out of Revelation except for the first three chapters.

Revelation 20:14

You continuously leave out Matthew 25.

So, "hell" is confusion, and those who believe it, cannot explain it, nor explain the confusion away.

I would agree that we don't fully understand hell any more than we understand angels, heaven, the Trinity, or any other mysterious doctrines in Scripture. But just like I know there are angels though I don't fully understand them, I also know there is a hell simply because I'm told it over and over in Scripture. And since you have brought it up constantly and cited numerous verses on the subject, you must believe there is a hell as well. How could the rich man in in hell looking at the feast of Abraham, if he was innahilated?

Yes, all who are considered wicked, will be gone forever... Never to see them again.

There is nothing to support this. You might as well say that anyone who dies will be gone forever.

That will be wonderful! I'm sure you agree.

You are making the assumption based upon the fact that you don't wish to see anyone facing an eternity of no hope. But what if that is what they really wanted rather than to be in heaven? Would you think that annihilating them would be better than to give them exactly what they want?