What is Hell?

[rturner76]

No, God is present, but they just can't see him.

Since they didn't have faith and were resurrected into a body of sin, it's all about perception.

Would you say it's something like they didn't or couldn't see God when they were on Earth it's just a continuation but at that point, like you said, even if they wanted to see him they couldn't because they chose to be separated from God. So he only gives us what we truly desire.

Do you think that hell is a place of physical torture or is it hell enough to be isolated in a Godless world? Meaning, that even though God is present, nobody in that realm has a relationship with him. That sounds like a horrible place in and of itself.

 

[CoreyD]

Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper,






There


Romans 1:28
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper,


The Bible doesn't say that the end of people will be total annihalation. It states rather clearly that it will be eternal punishment. How and in what way that punishment is executed is unknown to us.


I don't explain Revelation. There are far too many views and disagreements on whether it should be taken literally, figurative, etc. It is a very dangerous thing to try to make doctrine out of Revelation except for the first three chapters.


You continuously leave out Matthew 25.


I would agree that we don't fully understand hell any more than we understand angels, heaven, the Trinity, or any other mysterious doctrines in Scripture. But just like I know there are angels though I don't fully understand them, I also know there is a hell simply because I'm told it over and over in Scripture. And since you have brought it up constantly and cited numerous verses on the subject, you must believe there is a hell as well. How could the rich man in in hell looking at the feast of Abraham, if he was innahilated?


There is nothing to support this. You might as well say that anyone who dies will be gone forever.


You are making the assumption based upon the fact that you don't wish to see anyone facing an eternity of no hope. But what if that is what they really wanted rather than to be in heaven? Would you think that annihilating them would be better than to give them exactly what they want?

Did you read my post?
If you did, you don't understand what I said, because your questions and statements indicate this.

Since you "don't explain Revelation", why do you mention the lake of fire?
How does one argue about or discuss something they cannot explain?

 

[Paul4JC]

Please describe and explain what hell is, using scriptures.
Thank you?

It's an abode under the earth.

[Phl 2:10 NIV] hat at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

2709 katachthonios: under the earth
Original Word: καταχθόνιος, ον
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-akh-thon'-ee-os)
Definition: under the earth

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Would you say it's something like they didn't or couldn't see God when they were on Earth it's just a continuation but at that point, like you said, even if they wanted to see him they couldn't because they chose to be separated from God. So he only gives us what we truly desire.

Do you think that hell is a place of physical torture or is it hell enough to be isolated in a Godless world? Meaning, that even though God is present, nobody in that realm has a relationship with him. That sounds like a horrible place in and of itself.

The first creation consisted of seven days, a transgression, a judgment, and then an entering into a new world.

The end of this creation, and the revealing of the new one will be similar.

It's like a continuation, but due to the saying "the former things will be neither mentioned nor remembered" .. continuation may be not following?

There are many illustrations in the bible, but in the end, we won't know what the new heaven and new earth looks like until we see it.

 

[rturner76]

The first creation consisted of seven days, a transgression, a judgment, and then an entering into a new world.

The end of this creation, and the revealing of the new one will be similar.

It's like a continuation, but due to the saying "the former things will be neither mentioned nor remembered" .. continuation may be not following?

There are many illustrations in the bible, but in the end, we won't know what the new heaven and new earth looks like until we see it.

Does that mean that people, once assigned to judgment may one day have a chance to be redeemed or is it over on the day of judgment?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Does that mean that people, once assigned to judgment may one day have a chance to be redeemed or is it over on the day of judgment?

In general theology, it's over.

In controversial theology, this matter can be debated.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Can you provide a reference please.

Strong's Greek: 86. ᾅδης (hadés) -- Hades, the abode of departed spirits look at "Strongs Exaustive Concordence"

 

[CoreyD]

Strong's Greek: 86. ᾅδης (hadés) -- Hades, the abode of departed spirits look at "Strongs Exaustive Concordence"

The abode of departed spirits?
Thanks for your reference, but hopefully, you can see that this is based on a Greek mythological doctrine, and influenced post 1st century doctrine.
Departed spirits having an underworld abode, is not of "OT" Biblical origin, or apostolic.
As you put it, it is an interpretation, and clearly, not a correct one.

We can prove this from the Greek scriptures themselves. Acts 2:27, 31; Psalm 16:10
This may explain why Jesus used this in his parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

However, that is not in support of your statement.
Adventist Heretic said:

The word comes from 2 separate words, that mean without form. In this case, the form is the body, so without form means without the body. It is the place you go to without your body. It implies the existence of a body, soul, and spirit.

Would you agree?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

The abode of departed spirits?
Thanks for your reference, but hopefully, you can see that this is based on a Greek mythological doctrine, and influenced post 1st century doctrine.
Departed spirits having an underworld abode, is not of "OT" Biblical origin, or apostolic.

See Saul and the Witch of Endor.
This comes down to whether you believe there is a soul or not and weather it goes some place when you die.

As you put it, it is an interpretation, and clearly, not a correct one.

We can prove this from the Greek scriptures themselves. Acts 2:27, 31; Psalm 16:10
This may explain why Jesus used this in his parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

However, that is not in support of your statement.
Adventist Heretic said:

Would you agree?

not sure I understand the question here.

 

[CoreyD]

See Saul and the Witch of Endor.
This comes down to whether you believe there is a soul or not and weather it goes some place when you die.

Soul in the Bible is the person, with their emotion, etc., or the life of the person.

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) -- Soul, life, self, person, heart, creature, mind, living being

Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- Soul, life, self, inner being

That's it.

not sure I understand the question here.

Would you agree the reference you linked was something different to what you said?
In other words, it did not support what you said. However, that's small potatoes, so don't worry about it.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Soul in the Bible is the person, with their emotion, etc., or the life of the person.

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) -- Soul, life, self, person, heart, creature, mind, living being

Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- Soul, life, self, inner being

That's it.

so you are taking the SDA view?

Would you agree the reference you linked was something different to what you said?
In other words, it did not support what you said. However, that's small potatoes, so don't worry about it.

no, I believe a person is, Body, Soul, Spirit 3 parts, Hardware, Software & Power source.

 

[CoreyD]

so you are taking the SDA view?

No. I'm taking the Bible's view, but if SDA agree with the Bible's view, that's cool.

no, I believe a person is, Body, Soul, Spirit 3 parts, Hardware, Software & Power source.

So, you agree. The reference did not say that.
There are reasons why the person is not body, soul, and spirit.

• If the soul is the person, or life of the person, which you just said, is the SDA's view, then the person cannot be body, soul, and spirit.
• The Bible says, when God created the man, and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, the man became a living soul - a living person. What made the man live, was the breath of life. What made the being - person (soul) - a man, was the body... Otherwise, the soul could be animal, like a wolf, a cat, or other.
• This is made clear from 1 Corinthians 15:35-40. What dies, is the person (soul). What is made alive, is the person (soul). After which, God gives the person (soul) a body. In the case of those in 1 Corinthians 15, the body given is not flesh, but spirit, and therefore, they are not man, but immortal spirit beings.

The spirit makes the person alive. The body makes the person what they are - man, animal, or spirit being (celestial, angelic).

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Soul in the Bible is the person, with their emotion, etc., or the life of the person.

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) -- Soul, life, self, person, heart, creature, mind, living being

Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- Soul, life, self, inner being

That's it.

no, it is a part of a person that holds the thoughts of a person and the feeling and the memories.

Would you agree the reference you linked was something different to what you said?
In other words, it did not support what you said. However, that's small potatoes, so don't worry about it.

repating what you just said does not help,you need to clarify. I don't a

 

[com7fy8]

Please describe and explain what hell is, using scriptures.

One thing is that hell is the final reaping of how a selfish person has been becoming during this life >

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8)

Each human will *reap* so much more than those little seeds the person has sowed. This is, in the resurrection the person will no longer have his or her body for feeling pleasures. But the person will only have one's spiritual character . . . of Jesus and love, or the character of Satan's evil spirit which has the "corruption" of lust (2 Peter 1:4) and the "torment" of fear (1 John 4:18).

For one who has not trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12), there will no longer be pleasures to dilute and mask these horrible things of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

So, part of hell will be the stubbornly stupid character of the selfish person. And only fire can effectively manage such people > we see how ones in this life are so conceited and stubborn, that they judge Jesus God's own Son to be not good enough for them! This shows how ruined and foolish Satan is and how he shares this with his children. Only fire can handle them, in order to contain their filth of fear and nasty anger and unforgiveness and lusts and frustration and bitterness. And that fire is possibly revealed through Hebrews 12:29 >

"for our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29)

The fire could be God Almighty Himself containing and managing the spirit of evil and the ones who have lived in Satan's nasty and negative and naughty and haughty spirit which all along has been getting processed to hell so it is away from all that is good.

The corruption and torment will be worse, then, because there will be no physical bodies for feeling pleasures.

Fire can burn sewage with a major stench very horrible. But things like metal and food can come out better in that same fire. Like this, our character will be affected differently, by the fire of God: the character of Jesus has us finding our Father to be warm and loving and purifying . . . while Satanic beings burn and suffer torment in the presence of Jesus Himself! An example of how this can happen is in > Revelation 6:15-16.

Satan and his, therefore, could suffer more in the presence of Jesus, than in hell! So, hell could in a way be a place of mercy so evil people suffer less than they would in the brightness of Christ.

Therefore, become humble like Jesus so we are compatible with Him our Groom.

"be clothed with humility" (in 1 Peter 5:5)

 

[CoreyD]

no, it is a part of a person that holds the thoughts of a person and the feeling and the memories.

So the soul is not the person, but part of the person?
That's the SDA view?

 

[CoreyD]

One thing is that hell is the final reaping of how a selfish person has been becoming during this life >

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8)

I do not see anything there about hell.
Certainly you don't either. None of us read invisible words.
If you interpret that to mean hell, then I believe you would also interpret anything else to mean hell.
Which does not allow for response.

Each human will *reap* so much more than those little seeds the person has sowed. This is, in the resurrection the person will no longer have his or her body for feeling pleasures. But the person will only have one's spiritual character . . . of Jesus and love, or the character of Satan's evil spirit which has the "corruption" of lust (2 Peter 1:4) and the "torment" of fear (1 John 4:18).

For one who has not trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12), there will no longer be pleasures to dilute and mask these horrible things of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

So, part of hell will be the stubbornly stupid character of the selfish person. And only fire can effectively manage such people > we see how ones in this life are so conceited and stubborn, that they judge Jesus God's own Son to be not good enough for them! This shows how ruined and foolish Satan is and how he shares this with his children. Only fire can handle them, in order to contain their filth of fear and nasty anger and unforgiveness and lusts and frustration and bitterness. And that fire is possibly revealed through Hebrews 12:29 >

"for our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29)

The fire could be God Almighty Himself containing and managing the spirit of evil and the ones who have lived in Satan's nasty and negative and naughty and haughty spirit which all along has been getting processed to hell so it is away from all that is good.

The corruption and torment will be worse, then, because there will be no physical bodies for feeling pleasures.

Fire can burn sewage with a major stench very horrible. But things like metal and food can come out better in that same fire. Like this, our character will be affected differently, by the fire of God: the character of Jesus has us finding our Father to be warm and loving and purifying . . . while Satanic beings burn and suffer torment in the presence of Jesus Himself! An example of how this can happen is in > Revelation 6:15-16.

Satan and his, therefore, could suffer more in the presence of Jesus, than in hell! So, hell could in a way be a place of mercy so evil people suffer less than they would in the brightness of Christ.

Therefore, become humble like Jesus so we are compatible with Him our Groom.

"be clothed with humility" (in 1 Peter 5:5)

Thank you for at least not being dogmatic about your interpretations being correct.

 

[Jim Campbell]

I do not see anything there about hell.
Certainly you don't either. None of us read invisible words.
If you interpret that to mean hell, then I believe you would also interpret anything else to mean hell.
Which does not allow for response.



Thank you for at least not being dogmatic about your interpretations being correct.

Entire body, soul and spirit of the damned will be resurrected whole in time for the divine court, declared guilty as unbeliever/disbeliever...unrepentant sinner, then cast into the lake of fire and eternal torment. Until then bodies "sleep" wherever put, in graves, seas, ashes, etc. awaiting joining to soul and spirit to be as live then as while living on earth. Meanwhile the "knowing/sensing" soul and spirit are kept above the lake of fire in Hell where the rich man was pleading with Abraham in the place above him (Paradise). Jesus emptied Paradise, leading the old testament righteous people like Abraham to heaven where they await bodily resurrection. The only time Jesus (God the Son) was down there was the 3 days preaching in Paradise. God in any Person has not been down there longer than 3 days.
As for darkness in Hell or the lake of fire where familiar flames might provide light, a volcanic lava flow can burn shades of blue when sulfuric gas contacts air above 360 C. Quite caustic to breathe it.
The time is coming when this is fulfilled:
Isaiah 66:23 "And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." Those people in the pit were made immortal and cannot escape.
Folks visiting those pit openings will have reminders concerning living in sin without the life of God, having not met Jesus' commandments of belief, faith, and righteousness, avoiding sin. Please don't let anyone teach you will sin every day, a popular false doctrine. The Holy Spirit is able to guide you away from sin.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

So the soul is not the person, but part of the person?

This is my view.

That's the SDA view?

NO the SDA view is that the soul is the person

 

[tall73]

The psalm indicates that God is even there, in the depths.

An alternate reading of the scripture sees the lake of fire as the presence of God.

Those who have been born again, can enjoy it.

Those who haven't, experience torment.

So when 2Thessalonians 1:9 says:
“These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,”

So, It is not that God is not present but he doesn't make himself known to them like in Paradise where God lives?

Some read 2 Thessalonians a different way, depending on how you interpret the ablative with ἀπὸ :

2 Thessalonians 1:9 οἵτινες δίκην τίσουσιν, ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ​

​

2 Thessalonians 1:9 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power​

Usually the preposition has the sense of separation. But sometimes it can have the notion of source, etc.

https://icotb.org/resources/Dana-ManteyGreekGrammar.pdf

See page 101

Therefore, you could read it as destruction, being away from the presence of God.

Or you could read it as destruction, from the face of God and the glory of His strength, with God's glory being the source of the destruction.

Some of the translations render it in English is such a way to preserve both possibilities, simply translating "from", where others spell out more the idea of separation with things such as "shut out from" or "away from", etc. as they feel that is the more natural and likely meaning, based on the construction, or immediate or larger context.

 

[CoreyD]

Entire body, soul and spirit of the damned will be resurrected whole in time for the divine court, declared guilty as unbeliever/disbeliever...unrepentant sinner, then cast into the lake of fire and eternal torment.

Is this just your opinion, or do you have any scriptures to support it?
Can you provide such scriptures if available, please.

Until then bodies "sleep" wherever put, in graves, seas, ashes, etc. awaiting joining to soul and spirit to be as live then as while living on earth. Meanwhile the "knowing/sensing" soul and spirit are kept above the lake of fire in Hell where the rich man was pleading with Abraham in the place above him (Paradise). Jesus emptied Paradise, leading the old testament righteous people like Abraham to heaven where they await bodily resurrection. The only time Jesus (God the Son) was down there was the 3 days preaching in Paradise. God in any Person has not been down there longer than 3 days.

Is this just your opinion, or do you have any scriptures to support it?
Can you provide such scriptures if available, please.

Bare in mind, that I am not asking for interpretations, but scripture. Thanks.

As for darkness in Hell or the lake of fire where familiar flames might provide light, a volcanic lava flow can burn shades of blue when sulfuric gas contacts air above 360 C. Quite caustic to breathe it.

Are you saying the damned that will be resurrected, are in hell?

The time is coming when this is fulfilled:
Isaiah 66:23 "And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." Those people in the pit were made immortal and cannot escape.
Folks visiting those pit openings will have reminders concerning living in sin without the life of God, having not met Jesus' commandments of belief, faith, and righteousness, avoiding sin.

What scripture says these people are made immortal? Or is this your idea?
Whom does "all flesh" that will "go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed" refer to?

Please don't let anyone teach you will sin every day, a popular false doctrine. The Holy Spirit is able to guide you away from sin.

I won't. Thanks.