FLAT or ROUND Earth?

[d taylor]

Science comes from the Latin meaning knowing, or knowledge.
How do people learn about the world? Through study, investigation, experimenting etc.
We all do it all the time. A child will learn that water can be hot, if they put their fingers under the tap after Mum has said "no". They will learn that fire burns, that earth doesn't taste nice, that they can pull the petals off daisies, that if they try to catch a fish with their hands a) it is difficult and they might fall in, b) that fish are slippery and will wriggle away and c) if they manage it and leave them out of water while they go to do something else, the fish will die. People discover when they get a new car/camera/phone and say "now let's see what this thing can do".

The Bible says a) do not conform to the pattern of the world; don't think, and behave, like people who don't know God and the Truth. Even in the OT the Hebrew slaves were told not to marry anyone outside Israel, or who did not share their faith. They believed there was only one God; other countries believed there were many. In time, these other gods began to contaminate the faith and challenge the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The people had been ruled by judges who were appointed by God. That wasn't good enough for them and they wanted a king to be like everybody else, 1 Samuel 8:5. We are called to be holy - separate - and not like everybody else. And b) the Bible tells us not to love the world - its values, desire for money and power, its beliefs that what you achieve matters and gives you your worth. We are not to behave like that because Jesus didn't - and because wealth and qualifications do not define us.

This doesn't mean that we cannot have, use, wear, live in or benefit from anything designed/invented by a non-Christian.


Because God has given us the ability to discover, to know, to ask questions.
The Bible does not tell us how anything was made; we discover that by looking it up or consulting experts who do know and have discovered. Some of these may be, or have been, Christians.

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If science is such a blessing from God why did it not come from the Hebrews (nation of Israel). but instead the origins of science came from pagan societies, Egyptians, Greeks.....

 

[Bradskii]

The Most Accurate Flat Map of Earth Yet

A cosmologist and his colleagues tackle a centuries-old cartographic conundrum

www.scientificamerican.com

That's a map of the globe earth. Not a map of a flat earth. The two are completely different.

'To see all of the globe, you have to rotate it; to see all of the new map, you simply have to flip it over, as you can see below'.

What you have shown me is this: https://www.shutterstock.com/video/...ap-winkel-tripel-projection-loopable-rotating

But you see the lines marked on the one to which you linked (which doesn't even have an edge)? I want a flat earth map showing those lines. Does one exist?

 

[trophy33]

I wont, it's just a pity that you couldn't have explained it as good as @Strong in Him

I know you won´t.

Its not a pity, I think it would be useless, after all the time I read you. You do not accept anything you do not like and you forget it easily.

Do you now accept (and remember) that the word planet is in the Bible?

 

[trophy33]

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If science is such a blessing from God why did it not come from the Hebrews (nation of Israel). but instead the origins of science came from pagan societies, Egyptians, Greeks.....

The flat Earth came from pagan societies, namely Sumer, Egypt and Babylonia, in the context of the Mesopotamian ideas. Israel just adopted it.

The origins of the modern science are actually quite specially related to Christian nations.

Therefore, you got it completely the other way around.

 

[Apple Sky]

I know you won´t.

Its not a pity, I think it would be useless, after all the time I read you. You do not accept anything you do not like and you forget it easily.

What does all this mean ?

 

[trophy33]

What does all this mean ?

Do you now accept (and remember) that the word planet is in the Bible?

 

[Apple Sky]

Does one exist?

I can't find one.

 

[JSRG]

From the book of Enoch (chapter 41)

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Genesis 5:24


5 And I saw the Chambers of the Sun and the Moon, where they go out, and where they return. And their glorious return; and how one is more honoured than the other is. And their magnificent course, and how they do not leave their course, neither adding nor subtracting from their course. And how they keep faith in one another, observing their oath.
(Psalm 104:19), (Job 9:7) related

6 And the Sun goes out first, and completes its journey at the command of the Lord of Spirits – and his Name endures forever and ever.
(Psalm 19:1-5), (Ben Sira 43:1-5), (Ecclesiastes 1:5) related

7 And after this is the hidden, and visible, path of the Moon, and it travels the course of its journey, in that place, by day and by night. One stands opposite the other, in front of the Lord of Spirits, and they give thanks, and sing praise, and do not rest, because their thanksgiving is like rest to them.
(Ben Sira 43:6-8), (Psalm 148:3) related

The Book of Enoch and the Flat Earth

Some flat-earthers have appealed to the Book of Enoch to support their argument that the Bible teaches that the earth is flat.

answersingenesis.org

I cite Answers In Genesis because they are not a source one can say isn't committed to taking the Bible literally (incidentally, they also have some general articles arguing the Earth is round here (on the scientific basis) and here (on the biblical basis)). In regards to Enoch, they point out that:
1) Very few groups accept it as scripture
2) Enoch, while indicating a flat Earth at some points, overall offers a cosmology that contradicts what flat Earthers normally offer

For example:

Enoch 33–36 describes twelve gates, three in each of the cardinal directions. Winds blow from each of these gates. Enoch 76 gives more detail of these winds. Four of the winds are good, but eight are bad. I seriously doubt that flat-earthers accept these teachings, altogether ignoring them instead.

But the very existence of these three gates at the edge of the earth in the four cardinal directions is problematic for the modern flat-earth cosmology. The North Pole is at the center of the modern flat-earth model. At the North Pole, all directions are south, so there are no cardinal directions at the North Pole. The only way that gates at the ends of the earth in the four cardinal directions make sense is if the observer (the writer of this portion of the Book of Enoch) is at the earth’s center, which is not at the North Pole. Only then can there be gates at the edge of the earth in each of the four cardinal directions. Gates in the four cardinal directions only make sense if the location of reference is at the earth’s center. However, from other locations on the earth’s surface, those gates would not have the same orientations in the four cardinal directions. Indeed, in answering the question of how people can circumnavigate the earth if it is flat, flat-earthers claim that circumnavigation in one direction (either east or west) makes a circuit around the North Pole. But if one can continually circle the flat earth in either the east or west direction, never reaching the earth’s edge, then neither east nor west intersect the dome at the earth’s edge. Therefore, there can be no gates at the edge of the earth in those directions. Again, the cosmology of the Book of Enoch conflicts with the flat-earth cosmology of today.

If a flat Earther does not accept Enoch as scripture, why should one care about it? If a flat Earther does accept it as scripture, they should be consistent and accept things like the above (the article offers more), rather than just grabbing a few verses and ignoring the rest.

 

[Apple Sky]

Do you now accept (and remember) that the word planet is in the Bible?

If the word planet means wondering star, then yes.

 

[trophy33]

If the word planet means wondering star, then yes.

No, it means "wandering", moving. The word star is not in the word planet.

 

[Apple Sky]

The North Pole is at the center of the modern flat-earth model. At the North Pole, all directions are south,

No they are not.

 

[Bradskii]

I can't find one.

I should have told you that one doesn't exist. But you might not have believed me. But now we both know that the flat earth map is completely useless for navigation. Anyway...

I'd like you to try something on Google maps if you could. I know you're in South Wales so we'll use that (I grew up in Swansea). Get Swansea on the map and zoom out until you can see Cardiff as well.

Right click somewhere near the centre of Swansea. Some options will come up, one at the bottom being 'Distance'. Select that and then click near the centre of Cardiff. A line will join the two and it'll tell you the distance - about 55kms or 34 miles. We know that's about right. I just want you to know that it's accurate.

Thanks for doing this. Or maybe I should say 'Diolch'.

 

[Apple Sky]

No, it means "wandering", moving.

Stars do move ???

 

[Apple Sky]

I'd like you to try something on Google maps if you could. I know you're in South Wales so we'll use that (I grew up in Swansea).

Ah a Swansea Jack

I will do this with google earth - Diolch.

 

[trophy33]

Stars do move ???

Stop trolling. If you are not trolling, do not use the trolling style and ask questions like a normal adult.

The word "planet" means "wandering, moving [from its place]. The word "star" is not in the word "planet".

Check the links again, if you need to.

 

[Apple Sky]

Stop trolling. If you are not trolling, do not use the trolling style and ask questions like a normal adult.

The word "planet" means "wandering, moving [from its place]. The word "star" is not in the word "planet".

Check the links again, if you need to.

 

[prodromos]

The Most Accurate Flat Map of Earth Yet

A cosmologist and his colleagues tackle a centuries-old cartographic conundrum

www.scientificamerican.com

From your link
"Depicting the curved surface of the Earth on a flat map has been the cartographers’ problem for centuries."

 

[David Lamb]

Stop trolling. If you are not trolling, do not use the trolling style and ask questions like a normal adult.

The word "planet" means "wandering, moving [from its place]. The word "star" is not in the word "planet".

Check the links again, if you need to.

To be fair, Apple Sky may have been referring back to my post where I said that the word "planet" comes from asters planetai, ancient Greek for “wandering stars.”

 

[David Lamb]

Wherever God is.

Isn't that a n over-simplification? In one sense God is omnipresent - the Psalmist asked rhetorically where he could go from God's presence. But that doesn't mean that heaven is everywhere.

 

[Strong in Him]

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My saying that Jesus is not enough has nothing to do with biology. i made a very specific point with that thought. The point was that since the creation account God gives in the Bible is not enough for you.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.
I said that the account in Genesis doesn't tell us everything about God's creation - and it should be obvious to anyone that that is the case.
Can you show me, from Genesis 1, how God decided to give some animals fur and others skin?
Can you show, from Genesis 1, HOW God made the trees - did they appear fully formed, were they saplings, acorns/seeds that grew quickly?
Can you show me, from Genesis 1, how God made us; how did he decide to give us 5 fingers on each hand, or even just two hands? How did he make our brains and internal organs?

Genesis does not tell us this - that is not its purpose.

So you leave The Bible to look for further creation answers/ beliefs.

If you want to learn history, read a history book.
If you want to learn biology, read a biology textbook.
If you wanted to learn how your new laptop worked, you would not look in Genesis 1 but consult the manual.
If you/your child met a Spaniard, wanted to marry them and needed to learn the language, you would not look to the Bible to teach you but the appropriate books and literature.
If you want to learn about God; who he is and his relationship with the people he created, and of his love and salvation, read the Bible.
The Bible did not teach you how to count. Nor about the history, and constitution of the US. How did you learn those things? You looked to other sources.

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Then why stop at the creation account, why not also look for further answers/beliefs about how to have eternal life from other sources outside of The Bible.

There aren't any other sources that teach how to have eternal life; that is the point, and purpose, of the Bible.
John 3:16, John 6:29, John 6:40, John 14:6.
God's will, work and purpose for us is that we believe in Jesus. If we do, we will have eternal life. He is the only one who gives it and the only way to the Father.

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Like other secular religions, i mean you are looking to secular/worldly science for creation answers that you have to take on faith, faith in men (mostly atheist) scientist.

Did you miss what I said about the word "science" meaning "knowledge"? Did you miss the bit where I said that God has given us the ability to explore, learn about and understand his creation?
Science = knowledge; it does not mean "atheists who don't believe the Bible". Those who study science may become Christians - putting their faith in Jesus as their Saviour and Lord. Christian teenagers may decide to study science at university, teach it or make a career from it - it doesn't mean they have abandoned their faith or become atheists.