Jer 31:31-34

[Maria Billingsley]

It is the perfection under Christ that redeems us not our own abilities or potential for perfectly keeping the law. That which is written upon our hearts is of the Spirit not of the law (which would defeat the point). It is indeed the law of love which far extends the law such as Jesus' examples in Mat 5 saying "you have heard it said [insert law] but I say [insert Christ's words under love]. The 10, or more broadly the law, and the law of love have the same construct which is why they have overlap but also why we see the new as better than the old. The new is not based on the old, it is based on a common construct which is of God. The old echos this construct in a way that condemns but also points to the new. The focus of the new is of love and redemption from Christ. Same construct (of God) but different products.

So in one word, Love , fullfils the bondage of the law.
Thanks for engaging!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So in one word, Love , fullfils the bondage of the law.
Thanks for engaging!

Sorry, I believe you have this backwards, sin is bondage (breaking God's law 1 John 3:4). The law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 and its the law of Liberty James 2:10-12 freedom from sin, walking in harmony with Christ and everything He asks. Love fulfills the law, but love doesn't go undefined. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 because love is keeping the commandments of God 1 John 5:3 breaking God’s law is rebellion and sin. Rom 7:7-8. It’s a weird concept if you think about it, Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments- why Jesus wants to put His children in bondage. He doesn’t because the keeping God’s law is what frees us through the power of Jesus Christ John 14:15-18

 

[daq]

I don't recall saying the light was created. You might be reading something in my words that I never said.



Paul opens the door in 2 Cor 4:6 showing that the light of creation can be viewed as a gospel message. If we continue with that theme in the text God takes a dark formless void and he speaks light into it and organizes it in the first 3 days, then he fills it in the last 3 days and when complete it ushers in rest. This is a salvation account, we are that dark formless void that light is spoken into, a work is being done in us that when complete will usher in rest.

The whole passage is in a chiastic structure. for example each day has a parrallel. day 1 with day 4, day 2 with day 5, day 3 with day 6. 1:1 parallels 2:1 like book ends of the account and the 7th day parrells 1:2. 2:2-3 shows us the rest of day 7 is the answer and antithesis to the darkness before light is spoken. Darkness becomes light, formless becomes formed, emptiness becomes filled, chaos becomes rest, etc... The goal is the 7th day but there is more to this account then counting days. law counts the days until rest, Christ offers it freely.

After saying all of that you end with the statement, "law counts the days until rest, Christ offers it freely"??? Genesis is the first book of the Torah. You are reading the first book of the Torah and attempting to expound it here: so Genesis counts its own days until rest and you come along and correct the Torah and say that Christ taught you that? Makes no sense to me at all. Sounds like fantasy doctrine made out of pure imagination.

The Torah is full of Living Oracles, (Acts 7:38), and is even called Elohim to the Judges who consulted it in all matters of judgment for the people. To say that you get to change the Torah or sideline it or teach opposite what it teaches is really to say the same thing about the Son because the Torah contains the Logos-Reasoning of the Father, His Wisdom, His Son, (1Cor 1:24).

 

[DamianWarS]

After saying all of that you end with the statement, "law counts the days until rest, Christ offers it freely"??? Are you not aware that Genesis is the first book of the Torah? You are reading the first book of the Torah and attempting to expound it here: so Genesis counts its own days until rest and you come along and correct the Torah and say that Christ taught you that? Makes no sense to me at all. Sounds like fantasy doctrine made out of pure imagination.

The Torah is full of Living Oracles, (Acts 7:38), and is even called Elohim to the Judges who consulted it in all matters of judgment for the people. To say that you get to change the Torah or sideline it or teach opposite what it teaches is really to say the same thing about the Son because the Torah contains the Logos-Reasoning of the Father, His Wisdom, His Son, (1Cor 1:24).

The account is in a chiastic structure which is undeniable.

the clearest example is comparing 1:1 to 2:1
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...
2:1 ...thus the heavens and earth are created

These become established as bookends to the account and viewing the chiastic order helps us understand their meaning as they occupy different sides of the same chiastic coin. To say in verse 1:1 this is the first creative action from God creating the heavens and the earth before day 1 would be incorrect because 2:1 is not creative action it is a conclusionary statement, thus 1:1 is an introductory statement and should be interpreted as 2:1's compliment.

these compliments are in every verse in the account. Day 1 and day 4 are compliments. Day 1 light is spoken and this loose idea of an expanse of darkness separated by light. Day 4 all the luminaries are filled in that expanse, the sun, moon stars, etc... Day 1 is the prep cavans, day 4 is filling that canvas. Day 2 are the oceans and skys, not created but separated and organized that which already is, day 5 is filling of those bodies with birds and fish. Day 3 God doesn't create, he separates the land from the waters, day 6 he fills the land with animals including man.

This leaves us with day 7 (2:2-3). What day does it mirror? it mirrors before light is spoken, which is 1:2. A dark formless void (that I'll call day 0 for reference's sake) day 0 is empty, day 7 is full. day 0 is of darkness day 7 is of light, day 0 is unformed day 7 is formed. day 0 is incomplete, day 7 is complete. day 0 isn't started, day 7 is finished. In this sense day 7 is the antithesis and answer to this day 0.

The chiastic pattern is as follows:

A1-[ in the beginning...​

A2-[ dark formless void, incomplete​

​

B1-[ day 1 separating light from darkness​

B2-[ separating waters from water​

B3-[ separating land from water​

​

]-B4 all the luminaries are created​

]-B2 all the sky and water animals created​

]-B3 all the water animals are created​

​

]-A2 day 7 of light, formed, filled, complete​

]-A1 thus the heavens and the earth...​

this is the chiastic perspective of the account and it will come to different conclusions than a literal reading because they show different goals but the chiastic patterns are clear and it is written this way by design. light spoken into darkness is probably the widest used symbol in the bible broadly a gospel message of Christ being sent into the world to save it. It would be hard to overlook this in the creation account as also not touching on the same message but in case you disagree Paul connects the dots in 2 Cor 4:6 identifying the light of creation is a gospel message. But scripture also speaks of a work that God is performing in us, viewing the creation account in this light we see an early development initiated by light that prepares the way for a filling that ends the first commandment to man to be fruitful and multiply, another strong gospel message. Rest is ushered in not because God is tired, but because God is complete (another strong gospel message ie. Phil 1:6)

2 Cor 4:6
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Paul opens the door to a biblical-endorsed salvation message within the creation account. one that is consistent with the prevalent biblical theme of light/darkness that we should already be looking at in the account as well as the clear chiastic pattern and its subsequent perspectives, not to mention these goal-based account through chiastic patterns are a very ancient Hebrew thing to do.

 

[daq]

The account is in a chiastic structure which is undeniable.

the clearest example is comparing 1:1 to 2:1
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...
2:1 ...thus the heavens and earth are created

These become established as bookends to the account and viewing the chiastic order helps us understand their meaning as they occupy different sides of the same chiastic coin. To say in verse 1:1 this is the first creative action from God creating the heavens and the earth before day 1 would be incorrect because 2:1 is not creative action it is a conclusionary statement, thus 1:1 is an introductory statement and should be interpreted as 2:1's compliment.

these compliments are in every verse in the account. Day 1 and day 4 are compliments. Day 1 light is spoken and this loose idea of an expanse of darkness separated by light. Day 4 all the luminaries are filled in that expanse, the sun, moon stars, etc... Day 1 is the prep cavans, day 4 is filling that canvas. Day 2 are the oceans and skys, not created but separated and organized that which already is, day 5 is filling of those bodies with birds and fish. Day 3 God doesn't create, he separates the land from the waters, day 6 he fills the land with animals including man.

This leaves us with day 7 (2:2-3). What day does it mirror? it mirrors before light is spoken, which is 1:2. A dark formless void (that I'll call day 0 for reference's sake) day 0 is empty, day 7 is full. day 0 is of darkness day 7 is of light, day 0 is unformed day 7 is formed. day 0 is incomplete, day 7 is complete. day 0 isn't started, day 7 is finished. In this sense day 7 is the antithesis and answer to this day 0.

The chiastic pattern is as follows:

A1-[ in the beginning...​

A2-[ dark formless void, incomplete​

​

B1-[ day 1 separating light from darkness​

B2-[ separating waters from water​

B3-[ separating land from water​

​

]-B4 all the luminaries are created​

]-B2 all the sky and water animals created​

]-B3 all the water animals are created​

​

]-A2 day 7 of light, formed, filled, complete​

]-A1 thus the heavens and the earth...​

this is the chiastic perspective of the account and it will come to different conclusions than a literal reading because they show different goals but the chiastic patterns are clear and it is written this way by design. light spoken into darkness is probably the widest used symbol in the bible broadly a gospel message of Christ being sent into the world to save it. It would be hard to overlook this in the creation account as also not touching on the same message but in case you disagree Paul connects the dots in 2 Cor 4:6 identifying the light of creation is a gospel message. But scripture also speaks of a work that God is performing in us, viewing the creation account in this light we see an early development initiated by light that prepares the way for a filling that ends the first commandment to man to be fruitful and multiply, another strong gospel message. Rest is ushered in not because God is tired, but because God is complete (another strong gospel message ie. Phil 1:6)

2 Cor 4:6
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Paul opens the door to a biblical-endorsed salvation message within the creation account. one that is consistent with the prevalent biblical theme of light/darkness that we should already be looking at in the account as well as the clear chiastic pattern and its subsequent perspectives, not to mention these goal-based account through chiastic patterns are a very ancient Hebrew thing to do.

(Just so you know, since you quoted the old version, I edited my previous post quite some time ago in an attempt to tone it down a notch).

It looks to me as if you missed point. I do not disagree with much of what you have offered here but it is sidestepping the point that the Son is the Light, not created but commanded to shine forth out of the darkness, and that was to make a separation between light and darkness, good and evil, and Elohim Himself calls the Light, "Yom", and therefore yom is light, (not day). Since this Yom Light is the Light of the Truth, (John 1:1-9), whenever yom is used for an increment of time it can be any increment of time, depending on the context and the limitations placed upon time increments within the body of the scripture, for yom is light, and it is not the light of the sun or daylight, it is the Son, the Word, the Logos, the true Light which enlightens every man coming into the world.

There is no night or darkness between any of the six days of the spoken Word creation, neither between the six and seventh days either: therefore the sacred calendar day is seven yamim-hours in a yom-day, and this is proven by Gen 2:4, These are the generations of ha-shamayim and ha-eretz in their having been created, in the yom (singular) wherein YHWH Elohim made Eretz and Shamayim: (proper nouns, Gen 1:10, Eretz, (yom three), and Gen 1:8, Shamayim, (yom two)).

According to the same style of teaching the twelve-hour civil calendar day is likewise taught in Numbers 7, wherein each prince offers the korban offering for his tribe, each prince in his yom-hour, (Num 7:11), in the yom-day wherein the altar was anointed, (Num 7:10, Num 7:84).

Moreover, in the long count way, (a thousand years for a yom), the adam is formed and becomes a living soul in the third yom of the opening creation account, (before any plant of the field was in the eretz and before any herb of the field had sprouted), and Elohim plants the garden and places him in the garden in the third yom, and this is the only way to account for what most imagine to be apparent discrepancies in the two creation accounts in the first two chapters of Genesis, (though that does appear to throw somewhat of a wrench into the chiastic theory you have presented).

The scripture entirely supports what I say here, in both the Psalms and in the writings of Paul, (who expounds it in 1Cor 15). The first man is formed in the third yom, and becomse a living soul, the second man is from the heavens and has to do with the (re)creation of Adam into the image of Elohim in the sixth yom, and that is when Elohim calls their name Adam, (according to Gen 5:1-2). It is only then that Adam is called Adam and is said to have "lived", which follows immediately in Gen 5:3, and all the descendants of that Adam are likewise written to have lived. This is a critically important point because none of those in the line of Cain, in the previous chapter, are said to have lived, for obvious reasons.

The Son rested in the Shabbat of Creation just as the Father rested.
No one said anything about being tired.

 

[DamianWarS]

It looks to me as if you missed point. I do not disagree with much of what you have offered here but it is sidestepping the point that the Son is the Light, not created but commanded to shine forth out of the darkness,

The son is the light but I'm not saying the son/light is created (you seem to keep seeing this). Perhaps by the utility of the words I've use it I may have suggested started point (I'm not sure). The text has a point where light is spoken (not created) and that's the light I'm focusing on but I agree, it is not that point where light is created, or light first appears. it's the point where light is spoken in the dark formless void.

The scripture entirely supports what I say here, in both the Psalms and in the writings of Paul, (who expounds it in 1Cor 15). The first man is formed in the third yom, and becomse a living soul, the second man is from the heavens and has to do with the (re)creation of Adam into the image of Elohim in the sixth yom, and that is when Elohim calls their name Adam, (according to Gen 5:1-2). It is only then that Adam is called Adam and is said to have "lived", which follows immediately in Gen 5:3, and all the descendants of that Adam are likewise written to have lived. This is a critically important point because none of those in the line of Cain, in the previous chapter, are said to have lived, for obvious reasons.

You seem to be reconciling a timeframe of creation. I'm not challenging what a yom is in terms of a duration of time or how it relates to the creation account, that's not my focus. I'm looking at the deeper meanings of the text. These accounts are goal-driven and it's the goals I'm focusing on over the details that support those goals. For example, Gen 2 is not really about telling us when Adam was created. It is about building to a point where Adam desired a woman and one was created uniquely for him. Gen 3 is not really about talking snakes and forbidden fruit, it's about establishing that man is sinful and needs a redeemer. or Gen 6 is not really about super half-breed angels, its about showing us how corrupt the world had become as a segue to the flood.

A study of these details can distract us from the goals of the account which I think are more noble to focus on. I'm not challenging how long a yom is, but I don't think that's the point of the account and it's focus may be a distraction.

The Son rested in the Shabbat of Creation just as the Father rested.
No one said anything about being tired.

My point is in the ambiguity of the word rested and it's suggestions. it's from the verb sabbath, and sabbath can simply mean "to cease". in the same way, God ceased his work on the 7th day. He ceased it because he was finished. A comparison can be made in salvation as well, God is doing a work in us, and when complete, by nature of it being complete, he will cease that work and the 7th day will then be ushered in.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Sorry, I believe you have this backwards, sin is bondage (breaking God's law 1 John 3:4). The law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 and its the law of Liberty James 2:10-12 freedom from sin, walking in harmony with Christ and everything He asks. Love fulfills the law, but love doesn't go undefined. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 because love is keeping the commandments of God 1 John 5:3 breaking God’s law is rebellion and sin. Rom 7:7-8. It’s a weird concept if you think about it, Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments- why Jesus wants to put His children in bondage. He doesn’t because the keeping God’s law is what frees us through the power of Jesus Christ John 14:15-18

I know there are some who doubt the Apostle Paul but here goes...

Galatians 5
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.........

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

As you can read above, this scripture can not be twisted as he references one of the most important laws in the Old Covenant as being profetless. Be led by the Spirit not the law.

 

[DamianWarS]

I know there are some who doubt the Apostle Paul but here goes...

Galatians 5
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.........

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

As you can read above, this scripture can not be twisted as he references one of the most important laws in the Old Covenant as being profetless. Be led by the Spirit not the law.

circumcision and the sabbath have some similarities. both are signs of their covenants, Sabbath to the Sinai/Mosaic covenant (Ex 31) and circumcision to the Abrahamic covenant (Gen 17). Both are also spoken of as everlasting (Gen 17:7, Ex 31:16). if you read the context of the Abrahmic covenant is it quite specific v14 says "Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." Hard to argue that as only spiritual, it is exactly in the flesh. But as you have shown in the new covenant it counts for nothing (at least in the flesh) and it has a spiritual value now (not physical).

1 Cor 7:19 tells us "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts."

again Circumcision is spoken of as nothing and what counts here is God's commandments. But this begs the question if not Circumcision then what is God's commandments? Galations has a mirror version of this verse that helps us define that God's commandments are

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

and again in

Gal 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

because it is a mirror version of 1 Cor 7:19 (same author, same point) we can conclude, without a doubt, that circumcision is nothing but we can also piece together what the context of "God's commandments" is. the focus is faith expressed in love in the new creation which is of Christ Jesus and this the context of "God's commandments"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I know there are some who doubt the Apostle Paul but here goes...

Galatians 5
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.........

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

As you can read above, this scripture can not be twisted as he references one of the most important laws in the Old Covenant as being profetless. Be led by the Spirit not the law.

I don't disagree with Paul, but what law is he referring here? He says so explicitly. Circumcision. Please point out where circumcision is anywhere in the Ten Commandments?

Paul seems to make this point clear:

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Paul is not counter teaching what Jesus taught such as John 14:15, Mat 15:3-14 Mat 19:17-19, Mat 5:19-30 Mark 7:7-8

Even if Paul was countermanding Christ, which he wasn't and why we have a warning he is hard to understand 2 Tim 3:16 who is our Savior? Paul or Christ. Paul can't save us, he was human just like we are and a servant of Christ Rom 1:1 and a servant is not greater than his master. John 13:16

The apostles even taught we ought to obey God rather than man. Acts 5:29 Wise words to live by.

What Spirit leads us to obey God's commandments? The Spirit of Truth because all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and there is a condition for receiving His Spirit.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

What spirit is leading us away from God's law

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Hopefully something to consider.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

circumcision and the sabbath have some similarities. both are signs of their covenants, Sabbath to the Sinai/Mosaic covenant (Ex 31) and circumcision to the Abrahamic covenant (Gen 17). Both are also spoken of as everlasting (Gen 17:7, Ex 31:16). if you read the context of the Abrahmic covenant is it quite specific v14 says "Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." Hard to argue that as only spiritual, it is exactly in the flesh. But as you have shown in the new covenant it counts for nothing (at least in the flesh) and it has a spiritual value now (not physical).

1 Cor 7:19 tells us "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts."

again Circumcision is spoken of as nothing and what counts here is God's commandments. But this begs the question if not Circumcision then what is God's commandments? Galations has a mirror version of this verse that helps us define that God's commandments are

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

and again in

Gal 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

because it is a mirror version of 1 Cor 7:19 (same author, same point) we can conclude, without a doubt, that circumcision is nothing but we can also piece together what the context of "God's commandments" is. the focus is faith expressed in love in the new creation which is of Christ Jesus and this the context of "God's commandments"

Or we could go by what God and Jesus defined as His commandments ....

Written in stone by the finger of God right in His Ten Commandments and calls them My (God) commandments

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Same ones Jesus taught when we keep our rules over obeying these commandments one worships in vain and their heart is far from Him, which is the opposite of the New Covenant- God's law written in our hearts Heb 8:10 kept by faith and love.1 John 5:3 Rom 3:31 through the power of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18

Mat 15:3
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (Only found in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:12 ) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Paul was not redefining what God already established. Paul is a servant- God is our Master. The teachings of Paul on love, faith, new creation all work in harmony with keeping God's commandments, not breaking them. Love is keeping the commandments of God 1 John 5:3, faith establishes the law not voids it Rom 3:31 we need to die of self and sin and become new in Christ Rom 6:1-3- does this mean we can worship other gods, vain God's holy name, covet or break the least of these. God forbid!

 

[daq]

The son is the light but I'm not saying the son/light is created (you seem to keep seeing this). Perhaps by the utility of the words I've use it I may have suggested started point (I'm not sure). The text has a point where light is spoken (not created) and that's the light I'm focusing on but I agree, it is not that point where light is created, or light first appears. it's the point where light is spoken in the dark formless void.


You seem to be reconciling a timeframe of creation. I'm not challenging what a yom is in terms of a duration of time or how it relates to the creation account, that's not my focus. I'm looking at the deeper meanings of the text. These accounts are goal-driven and it's the goals I'm focusing on over the details that support those goals. For example, Gen 2 is not really about telling us when Adam was created. It is about building to a point where Adam desired a woman and one was created uniquely for him. Gen 3 is not really about talking snakes and forbidden fruit, it's about establishing that man is sinful and needs a redeemer. or Gen 6 is not really about super half-breed angels, its about showing us how corrupt the world had become as a segue to the flood.

A study of these details can distract us from the goals of the account which I think are more noble to focus on. I'm not challenging how long a yom is, but I don't think that's the point of the account and it's focus may be a distraction.


My point is in the ambiguity of the word rested and it's suggestions. it's from the verb sabbath, and sabbath can simply mean "to cease". in the same way, God ceased his work on the 7th day. He ceased it because he was finished. A comparison can be made in salvation as well, God is doing a work in us, and when complete, by nature of it being complete, he will cease that work and the 7th day will then be ushered in.

Ever since my response to you in reply #19.......

I agree with what Paul teaches me in that passage: but I do not agree with your retelling of it. Elohim commanded or bid the Light to shine forth out of the darkness: that does not mean Elohim created the Light. You do not command or bid someone or something to do something when that someone or something does not exist. This Light of the beginning is the Logos, the true light which enlightens every man coming into the world, (John 1:1-9).

Moreover in the seventh yom, the Shabbat of creation, Elohim ceased from His work and rested in the seventh yom. Since Elohim performed no more spoken Word creation in that seventh yom of the opening creation account, the Son also rested in that seventh yom, the Shabbat of creation: for the Son always does what the Father does and whatsoever is pleasing to the Father, (John 5:19-20).

What therefore do those who are truly "in the Son" do in the Shabbat?

.......the point has continued to be how and why the Son indeed rested with the Father in the seventh yom Shabbat of the opening creation account. Hemming and hawing and saying it may or may not be isn't going to cut it when the Master comes.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I'm confused about how the Jeremiah text can be used to pull the 10 commandments out of the covenant they are explicitly bound to and then inject them into the new when it says the complete opposite. I have heard it said that the 10 are at the very least included from this Jeremiah text's reference to law be written upon our hearts. But I don't see that at all, what's written on our hearts is quite explicitly not the 10 commandments.

what do you mean when you say : when it says the complete opposite?? it means exactly what it says. can you prove Jerenmiah a prophet of GOD was wrong?

 

[HIM]

This new covenant does not re-print the 10 commandments "as it" in the old covenant nor any other law "as is". instead, it is living, and dynamic, written upon our hearts and is meant for all people. If it includes the 10, it is not at face value, and is with new revelation, living and dynamic, the antithesis to being made of stone and is Spirit-led not tablet-led.

It says the Law not the Ten. However, the Law would include the Ten.

Deut 29 and 30 state the New Covenat also. In Deut 29:1 is the stating of a New Covenant besides the one given in Horeb. And In Deut 30:10-14 it states what the New Covenant is and that the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law are in our heart and mouths that we do it. And this was stated in the present tense.

2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

And Deut 30 tell us what is written.

James talks of this also in his Epistle.

We are begotten by the word of truth. We are new creation having the engrafted word. So be a doer of this word and not a hearer only. Do not forget what manner of man we now are as we look into the mirror and see this perfect law of liberty.
We are now not subject to the law as in do's and don'ts. We are of God having the engrafted word, so it is now woulds and won'ts.


So speak ye and so do, as we will be judged by the law of liberty we are now.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[HIM]

I know there are some who doubt the Apostle Paul but here goes...

Galatians 5
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.........

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

As you can read above, this scripture can not be twisted as he references one of the most important laws in the Old Covenant as being profetless. Be led by the Spirit not the law.

The premise to which you and others fail to see is that if one is of the Spirit they are of Christ and have ceased from sin. Therefore they are not of the Law because the Law is for sinners.

I know how you like to hit and run so Don't worry about responding. I don't expect you to. So you are off the hook.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The premise to which you and others fail to see is that if one is of the Spirit they are of Christ and have ceased from sin. Therefore they are not of the Law because the Law is for sinners.

I know how you like to hit and run so Don't worry about responding. I don't expect you to. So you are off the hook.

Hmmm, hit and run? I'd hate to be considered this way. Blessings.

 

[HIM]

Hmmm, hit and run? I'd hate to be considered this way. Blessings.

Then why do it? But that is what you did again. Was hoping better.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Then why do it? But that is what you did again. Was hoping better.

Honestly I don't know what you mean by hit and run because I engage quite a bit here back and forth for several years. What I don't like to do is engage in circular arguments that go no where. This is typically caused when Christians are not like minded. When this begins to happen I do respectfully bow out of the conversation. I will do better now that I know you are irked by this.
Blessings

 

[DamianWarS]

what do you mean when you say : when it says the complete opposite?? it means exactly what it says. can you prove Jerenmiah a prophet of GOD was wrong?

I never said the prophet was wrong, let's give each other more respect. the text says a new covenant unlike the old, so what should we expect? the old or unlike the old?

 

[DamianWarS]

It says the Law not the Ten. However, the Law would include the Ten.

it includes the law which is not limited to the 10 but also cannot be exclusive to the 10. an all-inclusive law counters new covenant values so for some reason all that's valued is the 10 and some arbitrary dietary laws yet no scripture separates the 10 from the law or the law from the 10 (it's a package deal). if it is the 10, it must be all of the law, every jot and tittle. any argument that separates the 10 from the law is not sustainable.

And Deut 30 tell us what is written.

James talks of this also in his Epistle.

We are begotten by the word of truth. We are new creation having the engrafted word. So be a doer of this word and not a hearer only. Do not forget what manner of man we now are as we look into the mirror and see this perfect law of liberty.
We are now not subject to the law as in do's and don'ts. We are of God having the engrafted word, so it is now woulds and won'ts.


So speak ye and so do, as we will be judged by the law of liberty we are now.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

do you intend to mean the entire law or are you using this to separate the 10 out of the law? the latter cannot be supported biblically so let's keep the 10 inside the law. James is a leader of the early church, his statements need to be taken in context and he is speaking of Christians living in the new covenant. So be doers of what? the law of Moses? no, try again.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

it includes the law which is not limited to the 10 but also cannot be exclusive to the 10. an all-inclusive law counters new covenant values so for some reason all that's valued is the 10 and some arbitrary dietary laws yet no scripture separates the 10 from the law or the law from the 10 (it's a package deal). if it is the 10, it must be all of the law, every jot and tittle. any argument that separates the 10 from the law is not sustainable.


do you intend to mean the entire law or are you using this to separate the 10 out of the law? the latter cannot be supported biblically so let's keep the 10 inside the law. James is a leader of the early church, his statements need to be taken in context and he is speaking of Christians living in the new covenant. So be doers of what? the law of Moses? no, try again.

Can you point out when Moses became God, because these verses say My commandments ( quoting from the Ten) are God's commandments, does not say the commandments of Moses. I am pretty sure God wrote His law, not Moses. Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 and after giving His commandments- He add no more Deut 5:22 It's a standalone unit and why only the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the covenant Exo 40:20 which is also revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 what all man will be Judged by Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

This was written by the finger of God on stone right in the Ten Commandments, there is no greater Authority than God and He changes not.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Mat 15:3
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.