Jer 31:31-34

[DamianWarS]

I see this verse come up so let's have a look at it.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

So according to Jeremiah, there are days coming when there will be a new covenant with the people of Israel (v31) that will be unlike the old covenant established at Sinai (v32). And the covenant will be unique in that it will be put upon their minds and written upon their hearts (v33) and this covenant is a universal covenant for all people (v34) which defines the "people of Israel" in v31 more abstractly, not specific to location/time/people group.

To rehash this:
it is a new covenant for Israel which is a new Israel that includes all people groups (v31/v34)
it is unlike the old (v32)
dynamic and living (written upon their hearts) (v33)
universal (v34)

The Sinai covenant was written on stone tablets and the tablets themselves were called the "tablets of covenant law" and the 4th was a sign of the covenant (Ex 31), everything about this points to covenant boundaries. The covenant was also exclusive, outsiders had a process to be accepted within but in practice, this was a covenant for a specific people group.

This new covenant does not re-print the 10 commandments "as it" in the old covenant nor any other law "as is". instead, it is living, and dynamic, written upon our hearts and is meant for all people. If it includes the 10, it is not at face value, and is with new revelation, living and dynamic, the antithesis to being made of stone and is Spirit-led not tablet-led.

2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

I'm confused about how the Jeremiah text can be used to pull the 10 commandments out of the covenant they are explicitly bound to and then inject them into the new when it says the complete opposite. I have heard it said that the 10 are at the very least included from this Jeremiah text's reference to law be written upon our hearts. But I don't see that at all, what's written on our hearts is quite explicitly not the 10 commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

A covenant means agreement. The agreement is new, and scripture tells us the New Covenant is established on better promises

Heb 8:6 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Sadly most people erroneously teach that the new covenant is based on new laws. But there is no scripture that supports this teaching.

The New Covenant still has God's law, Heb 8:10 He never went away from His promise to not alter His Word Psa 89:34 but now God is the one writing His law in our hearts and minds its based on Him doing which is a much better promise than the Old Covenant which was based on the people doing Exo 19:8

Its why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments even in the NC Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12. It why Jesus and the apotles all kept and taught on God's commandments. God changes not. This is His will for mankind that we obey Him through faith and love. Psa 40:8 Exo 20:6 John 14:15 Rev 14:12

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I see this verse come up so let's have a look at it.



So according to Jeremiah, there are days coming when there will be a new covenant with the people of Israel (v31) that will be unlike the old covenant established at Sinai (v32). And the covenant will be unique in that it will be put upon their minds and written upon their hearts (v33) and this covenant is a universal covenant for all people (v34) which defines the "people of Israel" in v31 more abstractly, not specific to location/time/people group.

To rehash this:
it is a new covenant for Israel which is a new Israel that includes all people groups (v31/v34)
it is unlike the old (v32)
dynamic and living (written upon their hearts) (v33)
universal (v34)

The Sinai covenant was written on stone tablets and the tablets themselves were called the "tablets of covenant law" and the 4th was a sign of the covenant (Ex 31), everything about this points to covenant boundaries. The covenant was also exclusive, outsiders had a process to be accepted within but in practice, this was a covenant for a specific people group.

This new covenant does not re-print the 10 commandments "as it" in the old covenant nor any other law "as is". instead, it is living, and dynamic, written upon our hearts and is meant for all people. If it includes the 10, it is not at face value, and is with new revelation, living and dynamic, the antithesis to being made of stone and is Spirit-led not tablet-led.

2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

I'm confused about how the Jeremiah text can be used to pull the 10 commandments out of the covenant they are explicitly bound to and then inject them into the new when it says the complete opposite. I have heard it said that the 10 are at the very least included from this Jeremiah text's reference to law be written upon our hearts. But I don't see that at all, what's written on our hearts is quite explicitly not the 10 commandments.

It is the sharp contrast between the written and the Spiritual that is key here . His Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer is how the law is written in the heart. Blessings.

 

[DamianWarS]

Its why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments

certainly, the 10 are the greatest, are you too motivated to keep the least?

 

[DamianWarS]

It is the sharp contrast between the written and the Spiritual that is key here . His Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer is how the law is written in the heart. Blessings.

Why is the Spirit trying to write the 10 commandments upon my heart? is it not already written out? why does it need to be written out again? wouldn't it be easier to just say to keep that which is already written and widely available?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

certainly, the 10 are the greatest, are you too motivated to keep the least?

Jesus quoted directly from the Ten when He said this Mat 5:19-30 but we should obey everything God asks of us through love and faith

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus quoted directly from the Ten when He said this Mat 5:19-30 but we should obey everything God asks of us through love and faith

Are you saying Mat 5:17-18 only references the 10 commandments and no other law? The references to Murder and Adultery are weak support as Jesus also quotes from outside the 10 so I'm not sure how that helps your case. Besides, his purpose in quoting them (and outside the 10) is to show their inferiority, not superiority.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you saying Mat 5:17-18 only references the 10 commandments and no other law? The references to Murder and Adultery are weak support as Jesus also quotes from outside the 10 so I'm not sure how that helps your case. Besides, his purpose in quoting them (and outside the 10) is to show their inferiority, not superiority.

Jesus said not to break the least of these commandments and then proceeded to quote two directly from the Ten Commandments.

He also demonstrated by these two commandments that they mean much more than they are stated. Thou shalt not murder starts from our feelings of contempt and anger, thou shalt not commit adultery starts from lusts of the heart.

The commandment to only worship God or any of God’s perfect law Psa 19:7 will never be inferior to anything. Its not something Jesus taught. He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, and we shouldn't even have thoughts that lead to breaking them which in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement. Mat 5:19-30

 

[daq]

2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

The above statement concerns letters of commendation or recommendation. It is true belief/faith which results in a change in heart and lifestyle, walking with Meshiah to the glory of the Father, that makes one a letter of commendation or recommendation from the Meshiah: it is not the letters of commendation or recommendation from churches or highly esteemed men that prove anything. That is the point according to the context. The commentaries pretty much all agree on this if you take a look at their exegesis of the opening statement in 2Cor 3:1.

2 Corinthians 3:1 Commentaries: Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Why is the Spirit trying to write the 10 commandments upon my heart? is it not already written out? why does it need to be written out again? wouldn't it be easier to just say to keep that which is already written and widely available?

The law can only be kept perfectly when it is written in the heart. The law of Love. There is abundant scripture explaining regeneration into a new man without the written law and it's punishment for not keeping it. After all, you break one you break all of them. This is written. Best to go the way of the Gospel given to us by Jesus Christ of Nazareth and come out of the bondage.
It would be difficult to understand if one lives by the law and not by the Spirit. Ask Him to fill you today. As Galatians says, " live by the Spirit and you will not be under the law."

Blessings.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

.

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus said not to break the least of these commandments and then proceeded to quote two directly from the Ten Commandments.

He also demonstrated by these two commandments that they mean much more than they are stated. Thou shalt not murder starts from our feelings of contempt and anger, thou shalt not commit adultery starts from lusts of the heart.

The commandment to only worship God or any of God’s perfect law Psa 19:7 will never be inferior to anything. Its not something Jesus taught. He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, and we shouldn't even have thoughts that lead to breaking them which in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement. Mat 5:19-30

You failed to address my concerns.

1. Jesus quotes from more than the 10. This defeats your idea that his direct quotes limits the context to the 10

2. His quotes go in a typical fashion "you have heard it said [insert command] but I say [insert Jesus's instruction]". This is not affirming the laws in question, this is showing their limits. So they are not superior but inferior to Jesus's instruction unless you don't agree that Jesus' comments are a better focus.

3. This still is not a satisfactory answer as to why Mat 5:17-18 means the 10 commandments. I thought it means the law, exactly what it says, you seem to find ways to reduce this to the 10. The very fact Jesus brings up "the least" should be strong indication that it's just not the 10 as the 10 are regarded as the greatest.

 

[DamianWarS]

The above statement concerns letters of commendation or recommendation. It is true belief/faith which results in a change in heart and lifestyle, walking with Meshiah to the glory of the Father, that makes one a letter of commendation or recommendation from the Meshiah: it is not the letters of commendation or recommendation from churches or highly esteemed men that prove anything. That is the point according to the context. The commentaries pretty much all agree on this if you take a look at their exegesis of the opening statement in 2Cor 3:1.

2 Corinthians 3:1 Commentaries: Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you?

The point of the passage shows under Christ we are of the Spirit not of the law.

V6b ....the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for lthe letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The "letter" in this case is of commendation, the new is not letters of commendation (ie the law), the new is letters of Christ.

 

[DamianWarS]

The law can only be kept perfectly when it is written in the heart. The law of Love. There is abundant scripture explaining regeneration into a new man without the written law and it's punishment for not keeping it. After all, you break one you break all of them. This is written. Best to go the way of the Gospel given to us by Jesus Christ of Nazareth and come out of the bondage.
It would be difficult to understand if one lives by the law and not by the Spirit. Ask Him to fill you today. As Galatians says, " live by the Spirit and you will not be under the law."

Blessings.

It is the perfection under Christ that redeems us not our own abilities or potential for perfectly keeping the law. That which is written upon our hearts is of the Spirit not of the law (which would defeat the point). It is indeed the law of love which far extends the law such as Jesus' examples in Mat 5 saying "you have heard it said [insert law] but I say [insert Christ's words under love]. The 10, or more broadly the law, and the law of love have the same construct which is why they have overlap but also why we see the new as better than the old. The new is not based on the old, it is based on a common construct which is of God. The old echos this construct in a way that condemns but also points to the new. The focus of the new is of love and redemption from Christ. Same construct (of God) but different products.

 

[daq]

The point of the passage shows under Christ we are of the Spirit not of the law.

V6b ....the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for lthe letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The "letter" in this case is of commendation, the new is not letters of commendation (ie the law), the new is letters of Christ.

Unfortunately that is the typical (uninformed) answer. The Torah-Instruction of the Father cannot be considered "letters of commendation" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[DamianWarS]

Unfortunately that is the typical (uninformed) answer. The Torah-Instruction of the Father cannot be considered "letters of commendation" by any stretch of the imagination.

certainly, the law is far more. but the law cannot save so then what does it do?

1 Cor 3:6 tells us "The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life." so is the law about death and condemnation? certainly not, but in practice without Christ the law can only condemn however since we know we have Christ and the law is a part of that system by design then the law is far more and points to life rather then ends in death. the point however is when we stop at the law, we can only have the product of law, which is condemnation. Christ needs to define it, in order for law to be a part of the gospel.

 

[daq]

certainly, the law is far more. but the law cannot save so then what does it do?

1 Cor 3:6 tells us "The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life."

That is not what my reading of the Greek text says. Moreover Paul refers back to the passage he is expounding from, which is Exodus 34, and which is after the golden calf incident, and is not the same as Exodus 20-23.

The Administering (Ministration) of Condemnation

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[DamianWarS]

That is not what my reading of the Greek text says. Moreover Paul refers back to the passage he is expounding from, which is Exodus 34, and which is after the golden calf incident, and is not the same as Exodus 20-23.

The Administering (Ministration) of Condemnation

There are many topics of discussion which may branch off from this passage. This thread will be an attempt to address and discuss several of the most important, which are multiple, but not necessarily every facet of every branch of every possible discussion. Suffice to say, at this point based...

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are you suggesting there is pre-calf law and post-calf law? either way, are we not of the post-calf/post-fall/post-garden stock?

can only law save you = no
can law and Christ save you = yes
can only Christ save you = yes

simple deduction shows us law is not the special sauce.

The role of law points to Christ, and it always has. The first biblical words God speaks are "let there be light" where he speaks light into a dark formless void. This is a salvation message and foreshadows Christ (and Paul agrees 2 Cor 4:6), just as the law is a salvation message and foreshadows Christ. this message is a foundational construct of all scripture. the new is not reinventing the old, nor is it throwing it out, nor is the new calibrated from the old. It is an echo of the message of God since light was spoken into darkness, both new and old go back to the same. everything else yields darkness.

 

[daq]

The first biblical words God speaks are "let there be light" where he speaks light into a dark formless void. This is a salvation message and foreshadows Christ (and Paul agrees 2 Cor 4:6), just as the law is a salvation message and foreshadows Christ. this message is a foundational construct of all scripture. the new is not reinventing the old, nor is it throwing it out, nor is the new calibrated from the old. It is an echo of the message of God since light was spoken into darkness, both new and old go back to the same. everything else yields darkness.

I agree with what Paul teaches me in that passage: but I do not agree with your retelling of it. Elohim commanded or bid the Light to shine forth out of the darkness: that does not mean Elohim created the Light. You do not command or bid someone or something to do something when that someone or something does not exist. This Light of the beginning is the Logos, the true light which enlightens every man coming into the world, (John 1:1-9).

Moreover in the seventh yom, the Shabbat of creation, Elohim ceased from His work and rested in the seventh yom. Since Elohim performed no more spoken Word creation in that seventh yom of the opening creation account, the Son also rested in that seventh yom, the Shabbat of creation: for the Son always does what the Father does and whatsoever is pleasing to the Father, (John 5:19-20).

What therefore do those who are truly "in the Son" do in the Shabbat?

 

[DamianWarS]

I agree with what Paul teaches me in that passage: but I do not agree with your retelling of it. Elohim commanded or bid the Light to shine forth out of the darkness: that does not mean Elohim created the Light. You do not command or bid someone or something to do something when that someone or something does not exist. This Light of the beginning is the Logos, the true light which enlightens every man coming into the world, (John 1:1-9).

I don't recall saying the light was created. You might be reading something in my words that I never said.

Moreover in the seventh yom, the Shabbat of creation, Elohim ceased from His work and rested in the seventh yom. Since Elohim performed no more spoken Word creation in that seventh yom of the opening creation account, the Son also rested in that seventh yom, the Shabbat of creation: for the Son always does what the Father does and whatsoever is pleasing to the Father, (John 5:19-20).

What therefore do those who are truly "in the Son" do in the Shabbat?

Paul opens the door in 2 Cor 4:6 showing that the light of creation can be viewed as a gospel message. If we continue with that theme in the text God takes a dark formless void and he speaks light into it and organizes it in the first 3 days, then he fills it in the last 3 days and when complete it ushers in rest. This is a salvation account, we are that dark formless void that light is spoken into, a work is being done in us that when complete will usher in rest.

The whole passage is in a chiastic structure. for example each day has a parrallel. day 1 with day 4, day 2 with day 5, day 3 with day 6. 1:1 parallels 2:1 like book ends of the account and the 7th day parrells 1:2. 2:2-3 shows us the rest of day 7 is the answer and antithesis to the darkness before light is spoken. Darkness becomes light, formless becomes formed, emptiness becomes filled, chaos becomes rest, etc... The goal is the 7th day but there is more to this account then counting days. law counts the days until rest, Christ offers it freely.