God vs Satan

[Apple Sky]

I suppose so.
It's true that from our, and Joshua's, perspective the sun appears to move across the sky. When he saw that the sun wasn't moving then, as far as he was concerned, God had stopped it.
We now know that the earth revolves around the sun. So if everything stopped and sunset was delayed by 24 hours, then that is what must have happened.

I doubt Joshua would have considered that it might be the earth that was moving while the sun was still. He looked up, saw the sun at various points in the sky during the day, and came to the same conclusion that children, and some adults, come to; the sun moves.
What is certain is that God did not give him an astronomy lesson and say, "actually, it's the earth that is revolving, my child, and in a few thousand years, your descendants will confirm this."
God suspended the laws of nature when asked. That was the miracle; God the Creator being asked to interfere in his creation.

I can't guarantee that is actually what happened - but it's a much better explanation than saying "all of modern science/astronomy is wrong."

I believe that the Lord by Joshua's prayers actually stopped the sun in the middle of the sky.

On the day the LORD gave the Israelites victory over the Amorites, Joshua prayed to the LORD in front of all the people of Israel. He said, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and the moon over the valley of Aijalon.”
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua 10:12-13

You can't change or surmise what is written.

 

[Hammster]

I believe that the Lord by Joshua's prayers actually stopped the sun in the middle of the sky.

On the day the LORD gave the Israelites victory over the Amorites, Joshua prayed to the LORD in front of all the people of Israel. He said, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and the moon over the valley of Aijalon.”
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua 10:12-13

You can't change or surmise what is written.

How do you know it wasn’t a counterfeit sun?

 

[Strong in Him]

I believe that the Lord by Joshua's prayers actually stopped the sun in the middle of the sky.

On the day the LORD gave the Israelites victory over the Amorites, Joshua prayed to the LORD in front of all the people of Israel. He said, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and the moon over the valley of Aijalon.”
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua 10:12-13

You can't change or surmise what is written.

And you can't change the fact that from Joshua's perspective, as from yours, it LOOKS as though the sun is moving, but that is not actually the case.
You can't prove otherwise. And you can't dismiss all those pesky scientists who teach otherwise by saying that they are liars.
Joshua and Moses were not scientists or astronomers. Even if they had been, they were still limited in what they knew.

 

[Apple Sky]

And you can't change the fact that from Joshua's perspective, as from yours, it LOOKS as though the sun is moving, but that is not actually the case.

You can't Change scripture or cherry pick.

 

[Strong in Him]

You can't Change scripture or cherry pick.

I'm not changing Scripture.
The only "evidence" you have that the sun moves is ONE verse which says that it stopped. And because of that, you are calling thousands of people liars for saying that the earth moves around the sun.

You haven't answered my statement that it is from our perspective that the sun moves.
Mind you, you can't answer it. The only alternative is that the earth moves and the sun is still - and you've already said that nothing is going to make you believe that the earth revolves around the sun. You can't prove that it doesn't; you just dismiss everyone else as liars or those who have been deceived by Satan.

 

[Apple Sky]

The only alternative is that the earth moves and the sun is still - and you've already said that nothing is going to make you believe that the earth revolves around the sun. You can't prove that it doesn't;

And you can't prove that it does.

 

[Strong in Him]

And you can't prove that it does.

Maybe I can't - I've told you that I am not a scientist - but others can.
You have been given, and shown, many things in these threads which show the curvature of the earth and that it revolves around the sun - you won't accept any of them. Someone suggested you use your telescope to observe certain stars/constellations; someone else suggested that you do something that would test your theory - and find it to be false.
You won't, of course.
I've said before that if your belief is true it will always be true and has nothing to fear from questioning and testing. In fact, any test would only confirm it to be true. You won't test it; you won't do any of those things that have been suggested. And we can only surmise that you are afraid that your belief will be shown to be incorrect - which you have already said, you will not accept.

You're making it really easy for non-Christians to say that the Bible is false and that Christians don't know what they are talking about. Which is a tragedy, because then they will walk away, want nothing to do with the Bible and will not get to hear the Gospel.

 

[Apple Sky]

You're making it really easy for non-Christians to say that the Bible is false and that Christians don't know what they are talking about.

And your making it really hard for non Christians to understand & know the truth of what the scriptures actually say.
Tell them that Genesis 1 is true, which it is, & they may just start to take an interest as people tend to get confused when reading Genesis 1 for the first time, as most people have been indoctrinated about a spinning earth & space.

 

[Phil G]

And your making it really hard for non Christians to understand & know the truth of what the scriptures actually say.
Tell them that Genesis 1 is true, which it is, & they may just start to take an interest as people tend to get confused when reading Genesis 1 for the first time, as most people have been indoctrinated about a spinning earth & space.

This is false. People are drawn to Christ because they recognise that they are sinners in need of a saviour. It has nothing to do with their opinion on Genesis 1.

You ridicule things about which you know nothing by your own admission. You do not understand basic laws of physics. If you go to someone who does & tell them that the earth is flat, they will just laugh and dismiss Christ as saviour. If that’s what His followers believe then they won’t want any part of it.

What you don’t seem to realise is that such people are not indoctrinated. They have tested and observed the evidence because they have enquiring minds. Those who understand the laws of physics know that a flat stationary earth doesn’t fit with the evidence.

This is why I have encouraged you in the past to make contact with a local amateur astronomy group and ask them to show you why they know the earth is a rotating globe. They are passionate about the sky and observing it & will only be too happy to explain things to you. They can show you how the stars & planets move & how they cannot be as close as flat earthers claim.

They can show you the spherical nature of the moon and why it cannot be its own light source. They can show you that Polaris is not visible in the southern hemisphere. They can show you the different constellations on star charts from the southern hemisphere.

Many of them have motorised equatorial telescope mounts which can only work as designed if the earth is a rotating globe & explain to you why that is a fact.

As I have said my brother is a passionate amateur astronomer who has travelled the world in both hemispheres & observed the night sky. He also believes in the truth of Genesis 1 & rejects evolution. But he knows the earth is a rotating globe. A flat stationary earth would not fit with the evidence he sees with his own eyes.

His testimony is clear, a person can believe in the truth of Genesis 1 & still know that the earth is a rotating globe. And I guarantee you that he is absolutely NOT indoctrinated into believing the earth is a rotating globe. He sees the evidence for himself.

 

[Jipsah]

On perspectives. The company I worked for many years ago booked a dinner cruise on a big steel-hulled riverboat that runs up and down the Cumberland River hauling tourists and groups like ours that wanted a nice dinner and a show. The General Jackson is a big boat, 300 feet at the waterline, and accomodates a thousand people.

As she's leaving the dock, I scurry up to the top deck to see how that they handle her (geekboy 'tilI I die). The river is narrow there, with no room for a boat that size to turn around on her main engine. So once they've cast off , they took her directly sideways on her thrusters into the middle of the channel, then used the thrusters again, turning her 180 degrees in her own length. Very cool.

But the coolest thing was, that there was no wind, and no noticeable current in the river, so as the boat pulled out, there was no sensation of motion at all. From where I stood, it appeared that the north bank of the river was slowly approaching us, then eased to a stop, at which point the world began to revolve around the stationary boat. One of my colleagues had come up to watch as well, and we both had a laugh about how the world had finally realized just how inportant we were, and decided to rotate around us so as to save us the trouble.

So same thing with the earth and the sun. The little earth turns, and it looks like big sun is going around us. We even talk as though that was true. Most literate people realize that this isn't true. Some folks obviously, don't .

 

[Jipsah]

Because Satan created a different, counterfeit earth that we are currently living on.

Reminds me of a Rocky & Bullwinkle story where Boris and Natasha disguise Butte, Montana as Washington DC to lure Moose and Squirrel into a trap. The ruse failed, because Rocky had previously disguised Washington DC to look like Butte Montana, thus spoiling Boris's evil plan.

 

[CoreyD]

I believe that the Lord by Joshua's prayers actually stopped the sun in the middle of the sky.

On the day the LORD gave the Israelites victory over the Amorites, Joshua prayed to the LORD in front of all the people of Israel. He said, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and the moon over the valley of Aijalon.”
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua 10:12-13

You can't change or surmise what is written.

The scriptures are true Apple. However, the understanding of them is usually the problem
You said, you believe the Lord stopped the sun, but is it not true, you don't know that, but are making a guess?
The Bible does not say God stopped the sun.
Joshua said, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and the moon over the valley of Aijalon.”

The sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua .

The sun stood still in the middle of the sky.
That would be about midday, but is it midday all around the earth, or only in the areas of Gibeon, and Aijalon?
What would you say?

Since the obvious answer is no, then clearly, the standing still in the middle of the sky is from the perspective of Joshua, and the people around him.
What then does this mean?

It means simply what the Bible says - the sun did not set before Joshua vanquished the enemy, but it does not prove that the earth is not revolving around the sun.
It's a matter of understanding. Which is also the case with the Genesis creation account.

 

[Apple Sky]

The scriptures are true Apple. However, the understanding of them is usually the problem
You said, you believe the Lord stopped the sun, but is it not true, you don't know that, but are making a guess?
The Bible does not say God stopped the sun.
Joshua said, “Let the sun stand still over Gibeon, and the moon over the valley of Aijalon.”

The sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. Joshua .

The sun stood still in the middle of the sky.
That would be about midday, but is it midday all around the earth, or only in the areas of Gibeon, and Aijalon?
What would you say?

Since the obvious answer is no, then clearly, the standing still in the middle of the sky is from the perspective of Joshua, and the people around him.
What then does this mean?

It means simply what the Bible says - the sun did not set before Joshua vanquished the enemy, but it does not prove that the earth is not revolving around the sun.
It's a matter of understanding. Which is also the case with the Genesis creation account.

Your explanation for the sun stopping is the best so far. Thanks But this doesn't alter the fact that the earth is level & stationary & does not orbit the sun.

 

[Apple Sky]

This is false. People are drawn to Christ because they recognise that they are sinners in need of a saviour. It has nothing to do with their opinion on Genesis 1.

Your wrong about this, when a person first starts to read the Bible, where do they begin ?

 

[Strong in Him]

And your making it really hard for non Christians to understand & know the truth of what the scriptures actually say.

Nonsense.
Scripture is about God, his will, his plan and his salvation - Jesus. It is not a scientific textbook describing the shape of the earth and how God made it.

Tell them that Genesis 1 is true, which it is, & they may just start to take an interest

Oh, only "may just start to take an interest"? A short while ago you claimed there would be many conversions if non-Christians believe in a flat earth.
But that's nonsense as well. People have many objections to the Bible - like, "it was written years after the event happened", "it's not true", "there are other explanations for the miracles", "it's old fashioned" etc. etc. They may well use those excuses because they don't want to think about the Bible, God, the 10 commandments or that they are sinners.
You try telling people that God intended sex to be only for marriage, between husband and wife. You tell people who have an open relationship where husband and wife sleep with others, that adultery is wrong. You tell people that abortion is wrong because God created babies and gives life. You tell people who take stationery from the office home for their own use that they are stealing which the Bible says is wrong. I'm sure you must have seen, at least on the news, people demonstrating with placards condemning homosexuality. Why do they do that? Because of certain verses in the Bible.
A flat earth has nothing whatsoever to do with any of these things.
A serial killer who hates the Bible will not repent because they are told the earth is flat. They will repent only because they meet Jesus, realise how much God loves and values them but hates what they do, and are forgiven. A thief, adulterer etc. will change their lifestyle only after they become a Christian and meet Jesus who can set them free and give them a new heart and new life. A Christian with bad habits will change after they are filled with the Holy Spirit and have his power in their lives.
The statement "Genesis is true and the earth is flat" never converted anyone - or told them of the need to repent and turn to God.

as people tend to get confused when reading Genesis 1 for the first time, as most people have been indoctrinated about a spinning earth & space.

No, people get confused about Genesis because they haven't been taught how to read the Bible. They may have heard, or been told, that they HAVE to believe it is all literal. That will confuse them because science, and their own observations, tell them things which aren't in the Bible.

 

[Strong in Him]

Your wrong about this,

No, he's not wrong.
How many Christians do you know who gave their lives to Jesus because of a flat earth?
How many people say, or have ever said, "the earth is flat - I must give up my sinful life"?
How many people would stop stealing, lying, committing adultery etc. because they have suddenly been convicted by the shape of the earth?
Where does the Bible say that belief in a flat earth sets people free, gives them new life, died for their sins and fills them with God's Holy Spirit?
Read what was said, "people are drawn to Christ" - drawn to Christ, not drawn to a belief in a flat earth. How are they drawn to Christ? By the Holy Spirit who convicts them of sin and shows them that they need a Saviour. Who is it that saves and forgives them; Christ, or the shape of the earth?

when a person first starts to read the Bible, where do they begin ?

It depends on what they are taught.
If a non-Christian were to suddenly decide to read the Bible they'd probably start from the beginning, just as they would with any book. If they were to go to a vicar/priest, or even a Christian, and say "what book of the Bible should I read first?" the answer will almost certainly be "one of the Gospels." Why? Because the Gospel is Jesus. The way to God is through Jesus. Forgiveness and new life are found through Jesus. Once someone accepts Jesus, knows God and has become his child, THEN you can teach other issues like "How do I read, and understand, the Bible?" "What about evolution?" "Do I need to keep the Jewish food laws?" etc.

 

[Apple Sky]

No, people get confused about Genesis because they haven't been taught how to read the Bible.

How to read the Bible comes later but for a novice who first reads the Bible he/she would begin with Genesis. I know I did when I first read the Bible.

 

[Apple Sky]

How many Christians do you know who gave their lives to Jesus because of a flat earth?
How many people say, or have ever said, "the earth is flat - I must give up my sinful life"?
How many people would stop stealing, lying, committing adultery etc. because they have suddenly been convicted by the shape of the earth?
Where does the Bible say that belief in a flat earth sets people free, gives them new life, died for their sins and fills them with God's Holy Spirit?
Read what was said, "people are drawn to Christ" - drawn to Christ, not drawn to a belief in a flat earth. How are they drawn to Christ? By the Holy Spirit who convicts them of sin and shows them that they need a Saviour. Who is it that saves and forgives them; Christ, or the shape of the earth?

True But how many non Christians get put off reading the Bible because they think the Bible is a fairy tale ? How are you going to prove to these people that it is not ?

 

[trophy33]

True But how many non Christians get put off reading the Bible because they think the Bible is a fairy tale ? How are you going to prove to these people that it is not ?

For example by stopping using it to prove the impossible, fairy tale flat earth. Begin with that.

Use it properly, instead.

 

[Phil G]

Your wrong about this, when a person first starts to read the Bible, where do they begin ?

No I’m not wrong. Christians share their faith by witnessing to the salvation of Jesus. He is God’s only way to be saved. You want somebody to be saved you start talking about the accounts of Jesus in the four Gospels, not Genesis. That’s why many Christians hand out free copies of the Gospel of John for example. Or free copies of the New Testament plus Psalms.

And as I have said people believe the truth of Genesis 1 & still know that the earth is a rotating globe. There is no need to ridicule what you can’t grasp when others can.