God vs Satan

[Paleouss]

Very true, but God did create evil as it says in the Bible. There is nothing that exists that God hasn't created.

(1) God created all things (John 1:3, Rev 4:11, Col 1:16)

Above, it seems we are in agreement. Clearly God created all things.

(Col 1:16 ESV) 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

(2) Everything that God created was/is first good (1 Tim 4:4, Gen 1:31). For God does not have "pleasure in wickedness" (Psa 5:4)

(1Tim 4:4 ESV) 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

Here is where we part ways. It says in the Holy Scripture that (1) God created all things, and (2) everything created by God is first good. Yet, some can read Isa 45:7 in the KJV and suggest that God 'gave birth' to evil...

(Isa 45:7 KJV) 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

So what gives? Does God "create evil" (as in gave birth to it)? Some might think since Isa 45:7 KJV says "create evil" it does (not in most all other versions though). Are we to conclude that evil is good?

(1) everything created by God is good (1Tim 4:4, Gen 1:31)
(2) Isa 45:7 KJV seems to suggest that God created Evil.
(C) thus, evil is good.

Are we really to think that evil is good and good can be an evil? Now to be clear, we are not denying that God can use evil in some way for our good. That is not the point of this topic. The topic is that God 'created' evil (not just allowed it).

Prov 8:13
"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil"

But wait, the Bible is filled with verses that tells us to "hate evil" (Psa 97:10, Rom 12:9).

One might reason that God hates evil but 'created' it so we might be sharpened. However, James tells us that "God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone" (James 1:13). It seems clear that the implication is that God would not create evil so as to tempt mankind, i.e., sharpen us. I, myself, have full confidence that Adam, pre-fall, would have progressed to glorified man if he had not sinned. Thus, evil is not a "fortunate fall".

It seems to me that either...
(1) the Bible contradicts itself on this topic
OR
(2) I am misinterpreting a verse.

Since I can find a plethora of verses that suggests God created all things good and hates evil, and cannot find hardly any verses that says God 'created' evil and that evil is good. Then my conclusion is that I am misinterpreting Isa 45:7 (or KJV could have interpreted the Hebrew more clearly in English). All of the other Bible versions appear to conclude this as well, since they don't translate the Hebrew word to "evil" but use "calamity" ( NKJV & ESV) or "disaster" (NABS20).

So it is biblically reasonable to think that Isa 45:7 doesn't mean God 'gave birth to evil' but brings 'calamity' and 'disaster'. Which is what I hold.

Seek God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

 

[Strong in Him]

No I don't just accept it, there is a reason why we are told this.

And there is a reason why we are told that God is love, that love does not delight in evil but punishes all those who practice it - because it's the truth.
Otherwise, evildoers would be doing God's will. What would you say to someone who said, "I practice evil, yeah, so what; God created evil"?

 

[Apple Sky]

What would you say to someone who said, "I practice evil, yeah, so what; God created evil"?

No, as when God said he created evil he mean't he had created Satan.

 

[Strong in Him]

No, as when God said he created evil he mean't he had created Satan.

God created Lucifer, yes - who was, at that time, an angel of light. That's what his name means; light bearer. Lucifer wanted to be God, so he, and some other angels, tried to overthrow God and take his throne.
They couldn't of course. God is God, almighty and all powerful. In their sin and disobedience, they got cast down to earth.

So yes, God created Lucifer who, like all the angels and everything else, was VERY good, Genesis 1:31.

 

[Apple Sky]

God created Lucifer, yes - who was, at that time, an angel of light. That's what his name means; light bearer. Lucifer wanted to be God, so he, and some other angels, tried to overthrow God and take his throne.
They couldn't of course. God is God, almighty and all powerful. In their sin and disobedience, they got cast down to earth.

So yes, God created Lucifer who, like all the angels and everything else, was VERY good, Genesis 1:31.

Until the bite of the apple.

 

[Strong in Him]

Until the bite of the apple.

Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit - no evidence it was an apple - not Satan.
And that doesn't alter the fact that he was good when God created him.

 

[CoreyD]

How can it be ? The earth is unmovable;

New King James Version
You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever, Psalms 104:5

King James Bible
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. Chronicles 16:30

The earth certainly will never be destroyed. Psalm 78:68
It's refreshing to find someone who does not believe the earth will be removed, or destroyed, according to the misunderstanding of Peter's words at 2 Peter 3:7-12
We can shake hands on that.

I find it really beneficial to find a good Bible translation, so that it is easier to get the correct understanding of verses.
mot: to totter, shake, slip

Psalms 104:5
Christian Standard Bible
He established the earth on its foundations; it will never be shaken.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He established the earth on its foundations; it will never be shaken.

New American Standard Bible
He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

 

[Strong in Him]

@Apple Sky, a thing can be secure and still move.
Your heart is fixed within your body; it still beats.
Your arm is fixed to your body; you can still move it.
A child can be safe in your arms; they can still breathe, move, wriggle etc.
The earth doesn't totter, or wobble, and will not be shaken/blown out of the sky by strong winds; it can still rotate.

 

[Apple Sky]

@Apple Sky, a thing can be secure and still move.
Your heart is fixed within your body; it still beats.
Your arm is fixed to your body; you can still move it.
A child can be safe in your arms; they can still breathe, move, wriggle etc.
The earth doesn't totter, or wobble, and will not be shaken/blown out of the sky by strong winds; it can still rotate.

Yeah but there is a difference with the earth, the earth is alive but doesn't move, your heart is alive but doesn't move it's position in the body.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yeah but there is a difference with the earth, the earth is alive but doesn't move, your heart is alive but doesn't move it's position in the body.

The earth turns on its axis and rotates around the sun.
That is observable, measurable and factual. But you have already said that whatever is factual, is wrong.

 

[Hammster]

Yes & it is unmovable, so why is it orbiting the sun?

Because Satan created a different, counterfeit earth that we are currently living on.

 

[Apple Sky]

The earth turns on its axis and rotates around the sun.

No it doesn't, if Joshua stopped the sun how could this be.

 

[Hammster]

No it doesn't, if Joshua stopped the sun how could this be.

How could Joshua stop the Sun on the real earth if we’re on a counterfeit earth?

 

[Apple Sky]

How could Joshua stop the Sun on the real earth if we’re on a counterfeit earth?

What is a counterfeit earth

 

[Strong in Him]

No it doesn't, if Joshua stopped the sun how could this be.

It's from our perspective that the sun moves.
So if we stare into the sky at 10.00, by 12.00 the dun will be in a different position, so we will day that it has moved. What probably happened was that the earth stopped moving, the sun was in the same position and so it looked as though it had stopped.

Either way, the miracle is that man asked God to give him a sign and change the laws of nature and God did.

 

[Hammster]

What is a counterfeit earth

It’s what you said Satan does.

Here are just a few examples of what God has made & Satan has counterfeited.

God - An unmovable earth
Satan- A movable earth.

 

[Apple Sky]

It’s what you said Satan does.

I see what you mean now, well this is right God made the earth stationary & Satan & his minions have told fairy tales about the earth moving and spinning & orbiting the sun.

 

[Apple Sky]

What probably happened was that the earth stopped moving, the sun was in the same position and so it looked as though it had stopped.

Do you really believe this is what happened ?

 

[Strong in Him]

Do you really believe this is what happened ?

I suppose so.
It's true that from our, and Joshua's, perspective the sun appears to move across the sky. When he saw that the sun wasn't moving then, as far as he was concerned, God had stopped it.
We now know that the earth revolves around the sun. So if everything stopped and sunset was delayed by 24 hours, then that is what must have happened.

I doubt Joshua would have considered that it might be the earth that was moving while the sun was still. He looked up, saw the sun at various points in the sky during the day, and came to the same conclusion that children, and some adults, come to; the sun moves.
What is certain is that God did not give him an astronomy lesson and say, "actually, it's the earth that is revolving, my child, and in a few thousand years, your descendants will confirm this."
God suspended the laws of nature when asked. That was the miracle; God the Creator being asked to interfere in his creation.

I can't guarantee that is actually what happened - but it's a much better explanation than saying "all of modern science/astronomy is wrong."

 

[Strong in Him]

I see what you mean now, well this is right God made the earth stationary & Satan & his minions have told fairy tales about the earth moving and spinning & orbiting the sun.

There is no reason for Satan to make up lies about the shape of the earth; it benefits no one and it doesn't affect salvation or prevent people from coming to Jesus to find forgiveness for their sins.
He would be wasting his time trying to convince people about something that, spiritually and theologically, is not the slightest bit important.