WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

[Joseph Perry]

Revelation is always a touchy issue. Everyone has an interpretation.

Rome is traditionally, and popularly, referred to as the city on the seven hills. There are also other factors that would contribute to Rome being a likely candidate.

1. The Beast of Revelation is made up of the previous empires that came before it, the lion, the leopard, and the bear (Rev. 13:2), and is identified in Daniel as the fourth kingdom upon the earth (Dan. 7:23). Rome was the fourth major empire of the known world, and was, in fact, made up of the regions and territories formerly held by the Lion (Babylon), the Bear (Medo-Persia), and the Leopard (Greece).
2. The Beast has three representations throughout Revelation. In all cases, it has seven heads and ten horns.
   a) In the first representation, it has seven crowns upon its seven heads (Rev. 12:3). These are the seven kings of Rome; Romulus, Numa Pompilius, Tullus Hostilius, Ancus Marcius, Lucius Tarquinius, Servius Tullius, and Lucius Tarquinius Superbus.
   b) In the second representation, it has ten crowns on the ten horns (Rev. 13:1). The provinces of the empire were constantly changing and evolving, so it's hard to say what the specific kingdoms are that comprise the ten, but it might be something, for example, like Africa, Egypt, Arabia, Syria, Asia Minor, Greece, Italy, Gaul, Germania, and Spain. Although each is broken up into multiple minor provinces, the provinces of a nation as a whole make up that nation. The second beast, furthermore, receives his power, his seat, and his authority from the dragon. The dragon is Rome (as in the city, or Italian State), the beast is the empire, headed by the Caesars and empowered by the provinces, and has authority because it speaks and acts in the name of Rome. And although the first head (Julius Caesar) was wounded unto death, the beast nevertheless survived.
   c) In the third representation, the beast has no crowns at all, and is given to us during a time of turmoil (Rev. 17:3). At the time of Jerusalem's eventual and inevitable destruction, Rome was going through civil strife during what they call the year of four emperors. Nero had died, and the empire was without a proper emperor. So the beast has no crowns at all.
3. The horns of Daniel's beast also coordinate very nicely with the Caesars. Daniel gives us a beast with ten horns, and then an eleventh, before whom three others fell and were plucked up by the roots (Dan. 7:7-8, 20). The enumeration would be as follows:
   1. Julius Caesar (the head that was wounded unto death)
   2. Marcus Antonius (in charge of the eastern provinces following the Battle of Philippi)
   3. Octavian Caesar (Augustus)
   4. Tiberius Caesar
   5. Caius (Caligula) Caesar
   6. Claudius Caesar
   7. Nero Caesar
   8. Galba
   9. Otho
   10. Vitellius
   11. Vespasian

After the death of Nero, Galba, Otho, and Vitellius were all proclaimed emperor. But all three fell, and Vespasian ultimately ended up being the new emperor, founding the new Flavian line of Caesars. Ergo, there were ten, and three fell before the eleventh. That eleventh, who was also the eighth, brought destruction. Although most would miss or discount Marc Antony (which is why most attempts to coordinate the beast with Rome have difficulties), it is important to note that some of the emperors came from his bloodline via his marriage to Octavia. Furthermore, following Julius Caesar's assassination and the later victory over Brutus and Cassius at Philippi, Octavian and Antony divided the empire. Antony controlled the east (including the Palestinian region), while Octavian controlled the west. Antony is a legitimate Roman king in the enumeration from a Jewish perspective.

1. Vespasian is the eighth recognized king, sent by one of the seven (Rev. 17:11), and it was under his reign, via his son Titus, that Jerusalem was destroyed.
2. The seven heads are also given an interpretation by the angel. They are seven kings. Five had already fallen. One was. And one was yet to come. The seven, as already addressed, are Julius Caesar, Marc Antony, Octavian (Augustus), Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. At the time of the vision, that would suggest that Claudius was in power, and Nero was the one yet to come.

To this, we can find some confirmation from Paul. Writing in 2 Corinthians, prior to his captivity, and therefore still during the reign of Claudius, Paul says:



Unless they were having a sale at Prophecy-Mart, I don't expect that too many people were having experiences of being caught up to paradise and the third heaven, to hear words not lawful to utter. It is my opinion that Paul is referring to none other than the Revelation itself, and this during the reign of Claudius, which would be consistent with the sixth king still being in power according to the interpretation given. While Revelation is often dated to near the end of the first century, the internal evidence suggests a much earlier date. Kenneth Gentry in Before Jerusalem Fell makes a number of substantial arguments in support of this as well.

Anyhow, there is a strong case that can be made for Rome being Babylon, while Israel is the harlot who rides upon Rome's back. If God called Israel a harlot once, he called her a harlot a thousand times throughout the prophets. In fact, he does so quite graphically in some instances.

BUT, there is also a strong case for identifying Babylon as Jerusalem as well. Especially when you consider that Babylon the great is fallen. She says in her heart, "I sit a queen, and am no widow," with the blood of Christ, God in the flesh, Israel's husband, still fresh upon the ground. Therefore, in one day, death, and mourning, and famine would be delivered to her, and she would be utterly burnt with fire. This was the fate of Jerusalem, not Rome.

The topic really need serious study. It’s not for amateurs who don’t know their history or their Bible. Nor is the answer simple.

 

[Joseph Perry]

What does Jesus have to say about your concern with the end of time? Do not concern yourself! I question whether Revelation should be in the Bible.

 

[AFrazier]

Reformed Eschatology Is "Wrong" Regarding "Rome"

(Jerusalem) Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

What did you do? Read the first sentence and have an aneurism? Do you honestly think I don't know the stuff you posted? Did you not read to the end where I clearly stated, "BUT, there is also a strong case for identifying Babylon as Jerusalem as well"? I like your conviction, but you should try not to be so matter of fact about things. Condescension is a terrible first impression.

 

[Barraco]

In Revelation 17:5, the Harlot appears as “Babylon the Great.”

She is repeatedly called “The Great City.”

We then encounter the phrase “the great city” in

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies will lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY which is mystically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.”

Two things to consider.

1. There is only one city throughout the Bible which is referred to as Sodom and Egypt and guess which city IT IS NOT? IT IS NOT ROME.

But the Bible does refer metaphorically to on multiple occasions Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt.

2. Notice the last 6 words of Revelation 11:8 “WHERE ALSO THEIR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.”

Jesus was NOT crucified in Rome.

Jesus WAS crucified in Jerusalem.

Therefore, The Harlot, and Babylon can be none other than Jerusalem NOT Rome.

Revelation 18:24 says “In her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and saints.”

This same language appears in Revelation 16:6, 17:6, and 18:21 and 18:24. John is making the same statements as Jesus made in Luke 11:50-51.

Luke 11:50-51: “In order that the blood of all the prophets, she’d since the foundation of the world may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.”

Rome never killed an Old Testament prophet as per Revelation 18:24, but Jerusalem certainly did.

The New Testament shows over and over the Jewish persecution of the prophets (Matt. 23:29-37; Luke 6:23-26; Luke 11:47-50; Luke 13:34; Romans 11:3; 1Thessalonians 2:15; and Hebrews 11:32-38.)

The Harlot being drunk on the blood of the saints and prophets ONLY fits Jerusalem.

Last thing: Even the Harlot’s attire provides evidence of Jerusalem.

Revelation 17:4 The woman was clothed in "PURPLE AND SCARLET...”

Revelation 18:6 “Woe, woe, the great city clothed in fine linen and PURPLE and SCARLET...”

Notice the clothing of the Harlot is the exact clothing required of the priests who served in the Temple in Jerusalem (Exodus 28:4-5 and also verses 8-9.)

This attire of the harlot also matches the decor of the Temple (Exodus 26:1).

Lastly notice the harlot has headgear (Revelation 17:5)

And so did the High Priest who served in the Old Testament Temple (Exodus 28:36 -38).

The Harlot and Babylon again only fits Jerusalem and NOT ROME!


Most that identify Rome as Babylon do so because of the phrase “the city on 7 hills” and Rome certainly was known as the city on 7 hills, but what most don’t know or either forget is that Jerusalem was known first as the city on 7 hills.
1. The Mount of Olives
2. Mount Scopus
3. Mount of Corruption
4. Original Mount Zion/called Temple Mount
5. The New Mount Zion/called Western Hill
6. Mount Ophel
7. Antonia Fortress Hill

Hi Briefcase, I want to applaud your research. It took a lot of discussion and research for me to come to the same conclusion. I disagree on the seven hills or mountains, however. The dragon, sea beast, and scarlet beast all have the same heads. They are just different phases of the same demonic kingdom that seeks to usurp God's authority and rule His creation.

Consider some of my arguments:

1. Revelation 17 says the harlot commits sexual immorality with the kings of the earth. In this case, the harlot plays the prostitute and forsakes her husband. This goes all the way back to King Saul. The people of Israel did not want God to be their king. They wanted a king of their own. With the exception of a few good kings, the other kings brought God's judgment upon the people of Israel. Because the Jews, with the exception of the elect, reject Jesus as their King, they will follow after the false messiah. God will allow this to happen to purify His people (Zechariah 13:7-9).

2. The seven mountains are also seven kingdom that rule over the harlot, who sacrifices her people to these beasts for wealth and influence. These are seven kingdoms that ruled over Jerusalem and the Jews from the destruction of Solomon's temple until the seventy weeks of years are complete. The intent of this is to purify the shepherds (priests) and flock (Jews), who had fallen in love with money and neglected each other (Ezekiel 34). The priesthood and people of Israel were corrupted and purified during the reign of all these empires:

1. Babylon
2. Persia
3. Greece
4. Egypt
5. Seleucia (Assyria)
6. Rome
7. Great Britain

3. The ten horns are ten kings that had not yet received power when John saw the vision in Revelation 17 (while the sixth head was in power). That doesn't mean they did not exist. The nearest and most familiar thing to ten kingless states that John's predominantly Greek and Jewish audience would have been familiar with is Decapolis. Decapolis were independent and sovereign states that mixed Greek, Roman, and local culture while also loyal to the Roman emperor. Decapolis spanned across what became the mandates of Syria, Palestine, and Jordan after Turkey surrendered them to the French and British after World War I.

4. Daniel 7 shows that another horn comes up after these and uproots three of the horns. This little horn is a king of Israel. Israel started off small and has been growing since 1948. I believe that Israel will conquer the Islamist regimes in Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine. They already have peace with Jordan, which lines up well with Daniel 11:41.

5. The United Nations intended for Jerusalem to be an international religious city due to its importance to the three Abrahamic faiths. I believe it will start out that way, as a terms of peace with Jordan and surrounding nations. I also believe terms of peace will revolve around the establishment of a temple for the Jews on the Temple Mount. One can deduce, then, that the anointing of the Most Holy Place as decreed in Daniel 9:24 is what starts that 3.5 years of tribulation. This is when the sixth seal is opened, when cosmic disturbances and miracles occur, and when the false prophet comes to hail the false messiah as the world's savior. This is where the false messiah will present himself as a god, causing the faithful and true Jews to reject him and face persecution (thereby purifying the people of Israel). We know from Zechariah 11 that the brotherly bond between Judah and Ephraim that was mended in Ezekiel 37 gets broken again because of a "foolish shepherd" that does not care for the people. I speculate that the southern kingdom of Judea consisting of Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Golan Heights will reject the northern kingdom of Ephraim over the false messiah's abominable act in the temple and split away.

6. The abomination of desolation happens toward the end of the last half of Daniel 9:27's seventieth week of years. Given that the fifth trumpet is a siege by the beast from the Abyss, it seems like the false messiah gets pushed out of Jerusalem and the temple gets fortified like it did five months before it was destroyed in 70 AD. This would cause the split in Israel that I mentioned earlier. This would make the false messiah to be the king of the North in Daniel 11:36-45. The false messiah will return with a massive army after five months to slay those that stand against him, resulting in the deaths of a third of mankind as well as the deaths of the two witnesses. At this point, the false messiah will set up his palace tents in Jerusalem and she will become the harlot Babylon, who rules over the kings of the earth.

In Summary:

Seven Heads = Seven Gentile Empires ruling over the Jews and Jerusalem
Ten Horns = Coalition of Arab States under the leadership of Israel
Beast = Kingdom of Israel's false messiah
Babylon = Jersualem, once the false messiah defeats the two witnesses

Lot's of information to chew on. I look forward to your responses.

 

[Truth7t7]

Seven Heads = Seven Gentile Empires ruling over the Jews and Jerusalem

Scripture teaches that the symbolic heads are seven literal mountains Rev 17:9

Ten Horns = Coalition of Arab States under the leadership of Israel

It my belief the ten horns represent "Future Kings/Leaders" that will be given power, and they will be from the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel

Beast = Kingdom of Israel's false messiah

I Agree, who will be a King/Ruler of Jewish/Hebrew decent

Babylon = Jersualem, once the false messiah defeats the two witnesses

Mystery Babylon is presently Jerusalem, not Rome as many falsely teach

 

[Oseas]

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows:
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This angel is spiritually higher and more powerful than the angels of the Churches)
2 And he cried (will cry) mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows: 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Manny clay]

In Revelation 17:5, the Harlot appears as “Babylon the Great.”

She is repeatedly called “The Great City.”

We then encounter the phrase “the great city” in

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies will lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY which is mystically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.”

Two things to consider.

1. There is only one city throughout the Bible which is referred to as Sodom and Egypt and guess which city IT IS NOT? IT IS NOT ROME.

But the Bible does refer metaphorically to on multiple occasions Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt.

2. Notice the last 6 words of Revelation 11:8 “WHERE ALSO THEIR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.”

Jesus was NOT crucified in Rome.

Jesus WAS crucified in Jerusalem.

Therefore, The Harlot, and Babylon can be none other than Jerusalem NOT Rome.

Revelation 18:24 says “In her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and saints.”

This same language appears in Revelation 16:6, 17:6, and 18:21 and 18:24. John is making the same statements as Jesus made in Luke 11:50-51.

Luke 11:50-51: “In order that the blood of all the prophets, she’d since the foundation of the world may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.”

Rome never killed an Old Testament prophet as per Revelation 18:24, but Jerusalem certainly did.

The New Testament shows over and over the Jewish persecution of the prophets (Matt. 23:29-37; Luke 6:23-26; Luke 11:47-50; Luke 13:34; Romans 11:3; 1Thessalonians 2:15; and Hebrews 11:32-38.)

The Harlot being drunk on the blood of the saints and prophets ONLY fits Jerusalem.

Last thing: Even the Harlot’s attire provides evidence of Jerusalem.

Revelation 17:4 The woman was clothed in "PURPLE AND SCARLET...”

Revelation 18:6 “Woe, woe, the great city clothed in fine linen and PURPLE and SCARLET...”

Notice the clothing of the Harlot is the exact clothing required of the priests who served in the Temple in Jerusalem (Exodus 28:4-5 and also verses 8-9.)

This attire of the harlot also matches the decor of the Temple (Exodus 26:1).

Lastly notice the harlot has headgear (Revelation 17:5)

And so did the High Priest who served in the Old Testament Temple (Exodus 28:36 -38).

The Harlot and Babylon again only fits Jerusalem and NOT ROME!


Most that identify Rome as Babylon do so because of the phrase “the city on 7 hills” and Rome certainly was known as the city on 7 hills, but what most don’t know or either forget is that Jerusalem was known first as the city on 7 hills.
1. The Mount of Olives
2. Mount Scopus
3. Mount of Corruption
4. Original Mount Zion/called Temple Mount
5. The New Mount Zion/called Western Hill
6. Mount Ophel
7. Antonia Fortress Hill

 

[Manny clay]

The time statements of Revelation of "things which must take place soon" and "for the time is near" does not fit a future Rome, but fits 1st century Jerusalem.

I agree with your position on Jerusalem being the harlot. I did a study on the 26 x city/great city is mentioned in Revelation. I do not wish to wrangle but learn.

 

[Manny clay]

I agree with your position that Jerusalem is mbtg and this is the key (in my mind) of unlocking the dating of the book.john 5:2 proves the gospel was not written 90-110 as the experts say. Rev also has similar clues between her pages.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree with your position that Jerusalem is mbtg and this is the key (in my mind) of unlocking the dating of the book.john 5:2 proves the gospel was not written 90-110 as the experts say. Rev also has similar clues between her pages.

Of course the book of Revelation was written in 95AD just as Iranaeus stated John wrote the book under the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD

Many push the early date 66AD to promote Reformed Preterist beliefs

 

[Manny clay]

I am one of those partial preterists. Do you disagree that John's gospel was written pre 70?

Of course the book of Revelation was written in 95AD just as Iranaeus stated John wrote the book under the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD

Many push the early date 66AD to promote Reformed Preterist beliefs

.

 

[Barraco]

Of course the book of Revelation was written in 95AD just as Iranaeus stated John wrote the book under the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD

Agreed. I used to view it from a partial preterist view but have changed my views over the past two years due to new research and current events.

The blasphemous acts of Domitian and his imperial cult provided a context from which readers could understand the things that would happen at the time of the end. The same was done in Daniel’s book, which spoke a great deal about Antiochus IV Epiphanes to help readers understand what would happen at the time of the end (Daniel 11:36-45, 12:1-3).

Jesus’s Parable of the Wedding Feast (Mt 22:1-14) help us understand why so much time was spent between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel. Jesus sent out the churches to draw people from all nations unto Himself so they can be spared the punishment for their sins and be transformed into the image of Christ for God’s glory.

When one seeks out the preterist view that Revelation was written prior to 70 AD, they have to either write the book off as a pseudonymous forgery or do mental gymnastics with Scripture to make it work (while also ignoring the testimony of an early church father).

 

[Truth7t7]

I am one of those partial preterists. Do you disagree that John's gospel was written pre 70?

.

"Yes"

When Was The Book Of Revelation Written?​

Author: Wayne Jackson, Christian Courier

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence​

The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus​

Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria​

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus​

Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome​

Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence​

The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

 

[tailgator]

Sometimes I will ask a question so as to make someone think .
Here is a question concerning Babylon the great.

According to revelation 17:16,The beast which ascends out of the bottomless pit and the ten horns hate the prostitute.So why do they attack Jerusalem killing the two witnesses?

Revelation 17:16
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

Revelation 11
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 

[tailgator]

Also ,why does the Lord go forth and fight against the nations which attack Jerusalem destroying the ten horns that destroy Babylon?


Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.


Revelation 17:14
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful

 

[tailgator]

And has anyone noticed,that the same day the nations attack Babylon,ransacking the houses and raping the women that they are also in Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women?

Talk about a coincidence.


It takes place on the day of the Lord


Isaiah writing about Babylon on the day of the Lord.
Isaiah 13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.



Zechariah writing about Jerusalem on the day of the Lord.
Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

 

[Manny clay]

"Yes"

When Was The Book Of Revelation Written?​

Author: Wayne Jackson, Christian Courier

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence​

The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus​

Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria​

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus​

Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

Jerome​

Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,


To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence​

The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

That's quite the line up of the church father's who's who. But John 5:2 stands as internal proof for a pre 70 writing of John's gospel. God hid clues in the Apocalypse that also prove a pre 70 vision/writing date.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's quite the line up of the church father's who's who. But John 5:2 stands as internal proof for a pre 70 writing of John's gospel. God hid clues in the Apocalypse that also prove a pre 70 vision/writing date.

John 5:2 states no such thing as John writing the Revelation pre 70AD, preterist fairy tales

As you have been clearly shown, John wrote the Revelation in 96AD under the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD

John 5:2KJV
2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.

 

[Manny clay]

John 2 proves a pre 70ad writitg. What biblical basis proves it does not.

 

[Manny clay]

John 5:2 states no such thing as John writing the Revelation pre 70AD, preterist fairy tales

As you have been clearly shown, John wrote the Revelation in 96AD under the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD

John 5:2KJV
2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.

John says now there is (present tense) two things: a pool and a fish market. Neither were there after 70ad.