Andy Ogles (R-TN) Introduces Articles of Impeachment for VP Harris for non-existent crime in her non-existent role as "border czar"

[Ana the Ist]

No, this isn't correct. 750K is the total number of pending asylum cases.

You're getting that 750K number from here.

A Sober Assessment of the Growing U.S. Asylum Backlog

View attachment 353097

A jump of 30,000 in two months is more in line with the estimate of 180,00 - 250,000 per year, as I said before.

View attachment 353098


Furthermore, your own statement goes against your own claim. If 750,000 are being added to the backlog, how are millions managing to have their claim processed and being denied? (And then not deported, according to you)

Yeesh....alright.

Explainer: Asylum Backlogs

This explainer details how an ever-shifting policy landscape and extensive backlogs impact the asylum process in the United States. It describes what asylum is, how people apply, why such cumbersome backlogs exist, and what can be done in terms of solutions.

immigrationforum.org

"Amid a global increase in forced migration over the last decade, the U.S. has experienced a significant uptick in the number of people seeking asylum. In fiscal year (FY) 2022 alone, USCIS received around 239,000 affirmative asylum applications, a historic high and a major jump from FY 2021, when USCIS received approximately 62,800 affirmative applications. This shift was driven by changing migration patterns, as well as the lifting of pandemic-related restrictions that affected migration levels in FY 2020 and 2021. Yet the record levels from FY 2022 were soon eclipsed in FY 2023, when USCIS received roughly 454,000 Form I-589 applications."

And....

"At the same time, in FY 2022, there were approximately 230,389 defensive asylum applications filed with immigration judges. This continued pre-pandemic trends, with defensive asylum applications increasing “nearly fivefold between FY 2014 (31,517) and FY 2019 (154,368).” Such dramatic upticks have made it difficult for federal agencies to promptly process claims."

So you have both....

239,000 affirmative asylum claims....and another 230,389 defensive asylum claims to prevent proceedings.

"As a result, there are serious backlogs of cases for asylum seekers in both the immigration court system and within USCIS. According to the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) at Syracuse University, by late 2022, there were 1,565,966 people waiting for their asylum cases to be heard. Back then, approximately 778,084 applicants were waiting for a resolution to their asylum claims in front of USCIS. The remaining 787,882 petitioners were in line to go before immigration judges to present defensive asylum claims. By August 20, 2023, the number of pending affirmative asylum cases alone had reached a whopping 974,571."

So in 2022...1.5 million people are waiting for their various claims to be heard, or resolved, about 780k each.

That's just asylum....and it went up significantly in 2023.

Anyway....check the various links throughout the page, they all refer to government funded studies or government reports. I understand it's complicated but you're just referring to a certain type of asylum application, ignoring the other, and ultimately arriving at a number far lower than the real problem.

I showed you that order from the president to ICE implemented early in 2021. The immigration courts that adjudicate these cases are in the states of their destination. The Border Patrol isn't showing up in Tennessee for example to deport anyone and unless they have an existing criminal record for a very narrow set of crimes....ICE isn't deporting them either.

That's according to Biden's orders.

 

[Ana the Ist]

They make a huge contribution to GDP and to Social Security funding.


For 2010, the Social Security Administration estimated that unauthorized immigrants and their employers paid $13 billion in required social security payroll taxes.

Economic impact of illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know this is going to sound weird....but read what you just linked. Their employers paid that 13 billion in social security payroll taxes. They'd pay it if it were US citizens they employed.

And Social Security and Medicare, the benefits of which, most of them will never see. It's profit for others that will use those benefits.

Identity Fraud by Illegal Aliens Ignored by the Federal Government

Ben Weingarten joins Parsing Immigration Policy to talk about a report on ID theft he co-authored for RealClearInvestigations.com

cis.org

Most...but a large number are robbing US citizens through identity theft.

Workers earn money and spend it, and yes, build the economy.

This isn't some kind of rhetorical argument I'm making. You can look up how GDP is calculated.

How to Calculate the GDP of a Country

There are two ways to calculate a nation's gross domestic product (GDP): By adding up all of the money spent or all of the money earned.

www.investopedia.com

As you can see...it's a measure of goods and services....and government spending. Does the government need to spend more when it adds millions of new poor people? Yup. Does the value of goods and services increase....even if supply doesn't....when you add millions of new consumers? Yes.

Is it good for the bottom line of big business? Of course....that's why they forced out Sleepy Joe and are running 24/7 propaganda for Harris. Does it help US citizens who are struggling with rising prices and stagnant wages? Not even a little.

Well, that's a testable assumption....

AUSTIN — Illegal immigrants have boosted the state's economy by $17.7 billion and haven't been a drain on state government — but they did cost local governments $929 million in 2005, the Comptroller's Office reported Thursday.

The report by Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn is the first comprehensive effort by the state government to calculate the benefits and costs of having 1.4 million to 1.6 million illegal immigrants in Texas.

Overall, the survey found that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in state services.

Texas tallies costs, benefits of illegal immigrants

Illegal immigrants have boosted the state's economy by $17.7 billion and haven't been a...

www.chron.com

Lol I almost forgot this study from 2005, and a Comptroller no less. Very cute.

I'm going to assume you don't have any real studies since you're using a very obscure one from almost 20 years ago.

Ty for trying anyway.

That's a testable assumption, too...

A fun fact about that research is it includes legal immigration...which contributes significantly more than illegal immigration.

Again, ty for trying.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You've completely misinterpreted your own information.

Firstly. You claimed there were 750k asylum claims from just 2022. That is not true, by your own claims.

There were 750k claims waiting to either be heard in court and another roughly 750k waiting for a judgement....in 2022.

That's why your attempt to make the issue sound much smaller by referencing only the 230k new claims (of one type, ignoring the other 250k new claims of defensive asylum) in 2022 was wrong.

But I gave you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't intentional....just misinformation.

You also claimed "millions" of denied asylum seekers were still in the country. That too, is not true.

It is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/immigration/4410809-under-biden-are-illegal-immigrants-safe-from-deportation-once-they-get-past-the-border/amp/

Migrants won’t make this journey unless they expect to be able to enter and stay in the United States; Biden’s administration has made this exceptionally likely. It has released more than 2.3 million illegal border crossers into the country, a number that would be much larger if Title 42 had been terminated at the beginning of the Biden presidency instead of several years later.

Out of those...the chances of being deported after being denied asylum (under Biden) are minimal....as he ordered ICE to not deport people for just being here illegally.

Oh yes, yes they are.

Really? ICE does the arresting of illegals in the interior. Not the Border Patrol. If the Border Patrol did that.....then Biden would have instructed them to not do their jobs either.

Defensive asylum is for asylum seekers who are literally in the removal process.

Right.

ICE removes noncitizens after their claim is denied, all the time.

Well they did under Trump. They don't under Biden. That's partly why this problem ballooned so quickly. From the article above....


"In addition, the administration has virtually eliminated illegal crossers’ risk of being deported from the interior of the country. They are home free when they reach the interior, unless they commit a serious crime.
In fact, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas’s September 2021 Guidelines for the Enforcement of Civil Immigration Law exempts migrants who just have unlawful status from enforcement proceedings. According to Mayorkas, “The fact an individual is a removable noncitizen will not alone be the basis of an enforcement action against them.”

That last part was bolded for your benefit. Mayorkas is quite literally saying that simply being here illegally isn't going to cause ICE to deport you.

Lost your asylum case? So what? With Dems in office...it doesn't matter.

The Biden order you're referring to is not to not deport;

And the quote from Mayorkas? The head of DHS?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't understand this response. SS tax always comes out of everyone's paycheck directly from the employer, if you're a W-2. If you're a 1099, it comes from you. The literal text says "immigrants and their employers," referring to both W-2 and 1099. Either way, it comes out of their paycheck. Why do you think this is a gotcha?

Because your reportable income (assuming you file as an illegal) would have to exceed 25,000 for individuals and 32,000 jointly to take any social security deduction.

Average annual income of illegal households of three is only 38,000. How much of that is above table is anyone's guess....but regardless, that's the rules.

 

[RDKirk]

It's a pretty lame impeachment.

If being bad at your job was an impeachable offense....most of the executive branch and Biden would be gone.

I came here to say that. Incompetence was never intended to be included as a "high crime" or "misdemeanor." Lots of Congresscritters would also be gone. We'd still have that bone to pick with "Dubya."

 

[The Barbarian]

I know this is going to sound weird....

We're used to you by now. Maybe English isn't your first language?

but read what you just linked. Their employers paid that 13 billion in social security payroll taxes. They'd pay it if it were US citizens they employed.

Assuming there was no labor shortage.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

And Social Security and Medicare, the benefits of which, most of them will never see. It's profit for others that will use those benefits.

Most...but a large number are robbing US citizens through identity theft.

But you can't show us any evidence? Just like the "millions of gang members are flooding in to rape and kill Americans." And they get indignant when normal people laugh at them.

This isn't some kind of rhetorical argument I'm making. You can look up how GDP is calculated.

Which is precisely why (for example a comptroller from the State of Texas showed that illegal aliens added about $17 billion a year to GDP in Texas. Perhaps you don't know what "GDP" means. What do you think it means?

Lol I almost forgot this study from 2005, and a Comptroller no less. Very cute.

I'm going to assume you don't have any real studies since you're using a very obscure one from almost 20 years ago.

Perhaps "comptroller" means something different in your language? I'd be pleased to see a more recent analysis that contradicts what this study found. What do you have? Oh, that's right, you don't like facts. (Barbarian checks)

New Report Assesses the Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration​

News Release | September 21, 2016
WASHINGTON – A new report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine provides a comprehensive assessment of economic and demographic trends of U.S. immigration over the past 20 years, its impact on the labor market and wages of native-born workers, and its fiscal impact at the national, state, and local levels.
Among the report’s key findings and conclusions:

Impacts on economic growth. Immigration is integral to the nation’s economic growth. The inflow of labor supply has helped the United States avoid the problems facing other economies that have stagnated as a result of unfavorable demographics, particularly the effects of an aging workforce and reduced consumption by older residents. In addition, the infusion of human capital by high-skilled immigrants has boosted the nation’s capacity for innovation, entrepreneurship, and technological change. Research suggests, for example, that immigrants raise patenting per capita, which ultimately contributes to productivity growth. The prospects for long-run economic growth in the United States would be considerably dimmed without the contributions of high-skilled immigrants.

A fun fact about that research is it includes legal immigration...which contributes significantly more than illegal immigration.

Show us that. Oh, that's right, you just make pronouncements without evidence. So let's look a little closer.

Key Findings:

In 2019, there were more than 4.2 million immigrants from Mexico who lack documentation. Together, they make up more than 40.8 percent of the 10.3 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

More than one half of all undocumented immigrants from Mexico live in just two states, California and Texas.

The vast majority (96.7%) of Mexican undocumented workers are working and contributing to the economy and are vital to critical American industries including agriculture (11.5% of the workforce), construction (6.7%), and the tourism and hospitality sector (3.4%).

Given their productivity and their numbers, Mexican undocumented immigrants are significant economic contributors to the American economy. In 2019 alone, they earned almost $92 billion in household income and contributed almost $9.8 billion in federal, state, and local taxes.

Mexican undocumented immigrants held more than $82.2 billion in spending power, money that often goes back into local economies as they spend on housing, consumer goods, and services.

New data: The economic contributions of undocumented immigrants |

ewic.org

You're spitting into the wind here. Learn from this and move on.

 

[The Barbarian]

f being bad at your job was an impeachable offense...

...Trump would have been impeached three times instead of just two.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yea, thanks for changing what you claimed, but that's not what you originally said. Your exact words were "Even a quick check shows that we had nearly 750k asylum applications in 2022." 750k did not apply for asylum in one year.

Why are you even focused on 2022? Biden owns all asylum decisions under his administration.

I'll gladly admit I should have ignored your original post...it was a bad argument with misinformation and faulty numbers.

Again, this is not what you originally said. You claimed "millions of denied asylum seekers" were not being deported.

Yeah.

As you can see....

Immigration Court Backlog Tops 3 Million; Each Judge Assigned 4,500 Cases

By the time Biden takes office...he already has a backlog of over 1 million.

Given that those cases were mostly built up from 2017 on....and had a wait of 2-3 years...we should have seen, at bare minimum, over a million cases decided under Biden.

Did Biden deport those people?

Well no...he didn't. ICE deportations under Biden have dropped considerably.

There aren't even one million newly denied asylum seekers in the US under Biden.

The backlog which ended at about 1 million in 2020 is now about 3 million.

lol. This will stagger you, but Trump hardly deported anyone. In fact, he didn't even deport a third as many as Obama did. So when did the problem "balloon" exactly? And what problem are you talking about? And what are you talking about, at all, actually?

Trump's Promise of Millions of Deportations Is Yet to Be Fulfilled

Before entering office, President Donald Trump promised to deport millions of unauthorized immigrants. Yet despite his general successes in creating a more restrictive and punitive immigration system, this goal has eluded his administration. So-called “sanctuary” policies implemented by state...

www.migrationpolicy.org

Obama did deport more than Trump....but not by some crazy amount. He was counting returns at the border as deportations....not exactly the same thing. Obama himself admitted this...and it's pretty easy to find.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We're used to you by now. Maybe English isn't your first language?

Assuming there was no labor shortage.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

And Social Security and Medicare, the benefits of which, most of them will never see. It's profit for others that will use those benefits.

But you can't show us any evidence? Just like the "millions of gang members are flooding in to rape and kill Americans." And they get indignant when normal people laugh at them.


Which is precisely why (for example a comptroller from the State of Texas showed that illegal aliens added about $17 billion a year to GDP in Texas. Perhaps you don't know what "GDP" means. What do you think it means?


Perhaps "comptroller" means something different in your language? I'd be pleased to see a more recent analysis that contradicts what this study found. What do you have? Oh, that's right, you don't like facts. (Barbarian checks)

New Report Assesses the Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration​

News Release | September 21, 2016
WASHINGTON – A new report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine provides a comprehensive assessment of economic and demographic trends of U.S. immigration over the past 20 years, its impact on the labor market and wages of native-born workers, and its fiscal impact at the national, state, and local levels.
Among the report’s key findings and conclusions:

Impacts on economic growth. Immigration is integral to the nation’s economic growth. The inflow of labor supply has helped the United States avoid the problems facing other economies that have stagnated as a result of unfavorable demographics, particularly the effects of an aging workforce and reduced consumption by older residents. In addition, the infusion of human capital by high-skilled immigrants has boosted the nation’s capacity for innovation, entrepreneurship, and technological change. Research suggests, for example, that immigrants raise patenting per capita, which ultimately contributes to productivity growth. The prospects for long-run economic growth in the United States would be considerably dimmed without the contributions of high-skilled immigrants.


Show us that. Oh, that's right, you just make pronouncements without evidence. So let's look a little closer.

Key Findings:

In 2019, there were more than 4.2 million immigrants from Mexico who lack documentation. Together, they make up more than 40.8 percent of the 10.3 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

More than one half of all undocumented immigrants from Mexico live in just two states, California and Texas.

The vast majority (96.7%) of Mexican undocumented workers are working and contributing to the economy and are vital to critical American industries including agriculture (11.5% of the workforce), construction (6.7%), and the tourism and hospitality sector (3.4%).

Given their productivity and their numbers, Mexican undocumented immigrants are significant economic contributors to the American economy. In 2019 alone, they earned almost $92 billion in household income and contributed almost $9.8 billion in federal, state, and local taxes.

Mexican undocumented immigrants held more than $82.2 billion in spending power, money that often goes back into local economies as they spend on housing, consumer goods, and services.

New data: The economic contributions of undocumented immigrants |

ewic.org

You're spitting into the wind here. Learn from this and move on.

I'll just save you some time with the most current study I could find..

The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

The Official U.S. Congressional website of The Republican Budget Committee

budget.house.gov

Conclusion
"Illegal immigrants are a significant net fiscal drain -- paying less in taxes than they use in public services. The primary reason they create more in costs than they pay in taxes is their relative low
levels of education. Based on prior research, 69 percent of adult illegal immigrants have no education beyond high school, compared to 35 percent of the U.S.-born. As a result, they tend to
earn modest wages and make modest tax contributions even when income and payroll taxes are taken out of their pay. This fact, coupled with the relatively heavy demands they make on public coffers -- especially for education, health care, and means-tested programs -- is the reason they are a net fiscal drain.

We estimate that 59 percent of illegal immigrant households use one or more major welfare programs, costing roughly $42 billion a year. At the local level, the largest single cost is for public education. We estimate the cost of educating the children of illegal immigrants, most of whom are U.S.-born, totals $69 billion per year. While illegal immigrants often receive other services for their U.S.-born children, even when we estimate the net fiscal impact of just the illegal immigrants themselves, excluding their U.S.-born children, we still find they create a lifetime net fiscal drain of $68,000 on average (taxes paid minus benefits received).
Even though illegal immigrants are net fiscal drains, they do pay a significant amount in taxes.
We estimate illegal immigrants pay $25.9 billion a year to the federal government.
Unfortunately, their tax contributions do not cover their consumption of public services.
The net fiscal drain is not the result of illegal immigrants being unwilling to work. In fact, we find that illegal immigrant households are significantly more likely to have at least one worker than households headed by the U.S.-born, and there is little evidence that immigrants come specifically to get welfare.
Legal immigrants and U.S.-born Americans who have relatively few years of school are also a net fiscal drain on average because they too tend to earn modest wages, make modest tax contributions, and use social services extensively. None of this should be seen as a moral failing on the part of low-income people. Nonetheless, it is the reason why communities across the country worry so much about losing their middle-class tax base, as it is primarily middle- and upper-income people who keep public coffers full."

There you have it....net negative drain, footed by the taxpayers.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We're used to you by now. Maybe English isn't your first language?

Assuming there was no labor shortage.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

And Social Security and Medicare, the benefits of which, most of them will never see. It's profit for others that will use those benefits.

But you can't show us any evidence? Just like the "millions of gang members are flooding in to rape and kill Americans." And they get indignant when normal people laugh at them.


Which is precisely why (for example a comptroller from the State of Texas showed that illegal aliens added about $17 billion a year to GDP in Texas. Perhaps you don't know what "GDP" means. What do you think it means?


Perhaps "comptroller" means something different in your language? I'd be pleased to see a more recent analysis that contradicts what this study found. What do you have? Oh, that's right, you don't like facts. (Barbarian checks)

New Report Assesses the Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration​

News Release | September 21, 2016
WASHINGTON – A new report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine provides a comprehensive assessment of economic and demographic trends of U.S. immigration over the past 20 years, its impact on the labor market and wages of native-born workers, and its fiscal impact at the national, state, and local levels.
Among the report’s key findings and conclusions:

Impacts on economic growth. Immigration is integral to the nation’s economic growth. The inflow of labor supply has helped the United States avoid the problems facing other economies that have stagnated as a result of unfavorable demographics, particularly the effects of an aging workforce and reduced consumption by older residents. In addition, the infusion of human capital by high-skilled immigrants has boosted the nation’s capacity for innovation, entrepreneurship, and technological change. Research suggests, for example, that immigrants raise patenting per capita, which ultimately contributes to productivity growth. The prospects for long-run economic growth in the United States would be considerably dimmed without the contributions of high-skilled immigrants.


Show us that. Oh, that's right, you just make pronouncements without evidence. So let's look a little closer.

Key Findings:

In 2019, there were more than 4.2 million immigrants from Mexico who lack documentation. Together, they make up more than 40.8 percent of the 10.3 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

More than one half of all undocumented immigrants from Mexico live in just two states, California and Texas.

The vast majority (96.7%) of Mexican undocumented workers are working and contributing to the economy and are vital to critical American industries including agriculture (11.5% of the workforce), construction (6.7%), and the tourism and hospitality sector (3.4%).

Given their productivity and their numbers, Mexican undocumented immigrants are significant economic contributors to the American economy. In 2019 alone, they earned almost $92 billion in household income and contributed almost $9.8 billion in federal, state, and local taxes.

Mexican undocumented immigrants held more than $82.2 billion in spending power, money that often goes back into local economies as they spend on housing, consumer goods, and services.

New data: The economic contributions of undocumented immigrants |

ewic.org

You're spitting into the wind here. Learn from this and move on.

Look...you're not good at economics. I think we can both admit that.

There's a very common sense formula you can apply here though...

If a US citizen, on average, needs at least a high school diploma to contribute to the economy more than they take...

Trends in High School Dropout and Completion Rates in the United States

nces.ed.gov

And the average illegal immigrant has a high school or less education, debt, doesn't speak the language nor is acclimated to society....

Then the idea that those people are a net gain to the economy is a lie sold to you by people who are robbing you. You bought it. Did they tell you that you were a good person? That only bigots would disagree? How did they sell you this dumb idea? Not just by pointing to Social Security taxes....was it?

Use a little common sense. Ask yourself what it takes to "make it" here in the US. Then apply that standard evenly.

 

[The Barbarian]

Look...you're not good at economics. I think we can both admit that.

I only took three courses in economics per se. Got "A"s in all of them. And I have a graduate degree in systems. Which is why I get the way inputs work in an economy. I can tell that you don't.

If a US citizen, on average, needs at least a high school diploma to contribute to the economy more than they take...

But we aren't talking about U.S. citizens. So you've already gone off the rails here. We're talking about illegal workers, which as you just learned, add a great deal to U.S. GDP. Economists who actually know what they are talking about have documented this.

Then the idea that those people are a net gain to the economy is a lie sold to you by people who are robbing you.

To be blunt, they have way more credibility than you and your increasingly flimsy excuses. Sorry about that.

Use a little common sense.

Ask yourself what it takes to "make it" here in the US.

So you figure that one has to "make it" here in the U.S. to add to GDP? That's laughably wrong. And the stories peddled by the House republicans have no credibility next to the analyses of real economists and engineers who actually know what they are talking about, without political motivations.

There you have it....net negative drain, footed by the taxpayers.

Don't be so gullible. Did you think anyone else here was fooled?

BTW, your ideas have actually been tested, with decisive results:
Alabama tried to kick out its undocumented immigrants with the harshest law in the country. Two year's later, the law's in ruins and the immigrants remain.

“Illegal is illegal.” With that rallying cry, Alabama passed HB 56 in 2011, the harshest state immigration law in the country.


The lead sponsor of the bill boasted to state representatives that the law “attacks every aspect of an illegal alien’s life.” Among its key provisions: landlords were banned from renting homes to undocumented immigrants, children had to rat out their parents to school principals, police were required to arrest suspected immigration violators. Even giving unauthorized immigrants a ride became a crime.

The vast scope of the law turned Alabama into the first major test for the anti-immigration movement. If self-deportation didn’t work there, it’s hard to imagine where it could. Early reports suggested success: undocumented immigrants appeared to flee Alabama en masse. But two years later, HB 56 is in ruins. Its most far-reaching elements have proved unconstitutional, unworkable, or politically unsustainable. Elected officials, social workers, clergy, activists, and residents say an initial immigrant evacuation that roiled their communities ended long ago. Many who fled have returned to their old homes.

Now Alabama is back where it started, waiting for a solution from Washington that may never come.

How America's harshest immigration law failed

Alabama tried to kick out its undocumented immigrants with the harshest law in the country. Two year's later, the law's in ruins and the immigrants remain.

www.nbcnews.com

On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a tough law combating illegal immigration, which prompted undocumented workers to flee the state. Few locals will perform the grueling work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural system built on illegal labor are struggling to find replacements before their produce rots.

Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled, farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether.

It’s not only Southern states; farmers all across America are dependent on migrant labor. For example, immigrants make up 40% of Wisconsin’s dairy industry workers and almost one in three U.S. farming and fishing workers is from Mexico.

Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business

On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a…

www.mic.com

Alabama republicans used the citizens of Alabama as Guinea Pigs for their foolish jihad against immigrants. With devastating results for the state. This is what Trump and Vance want to do to America.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I only took three courses in economics per se. Got "A"s in all of them. And I have a graduate degree in systems. Which is why I get the way inputs work in an economy. I can tell that you don't.

Uh huh.

But we aren't talking about U.S. citizens. So you've already gone off the rails here.

In what way? Are you saying it's easier for a foreigner to succeed and contribute economically than a US born citizen?

To be blunt, they have way more credibility

They also keep telling you the economy is improving.

So you figure that one has to "make it" here in the U.S. to add to GDP?

Not...because GDP is not a measure of economic gains by illegal immigrants.

It's a number trotted out by idiots who don't understand GDP.

BTW, your ideas have actually been tested, with decisive results:
Alabama tried to kick out its undocumented immigrants with the harshest law in the country. Two year's later, the law's in ruins and the immigrants remain.

“Illegal is illegal.” With that rallying cry, Alabama passed HB 56 in 2011, the harshest state immigration law in the country.


The vast scope of the law turned Alabama into the first major test for the anti-immigration movement. If self-deportation didn’t work there, it’s hard to imagine where it could. Early reports suggested success: undocumented immigrants appeared to flee Alabama en masse.

They passed a law to rid themselves of illegals and it succeeded. Great story.

And a quick check on Alabama’s state GDP in 2011, 2012, and 2013 are all steady increases....amazing. They kicked out illegals and GDP went up. Still think the two are connected?

How America's harshest immigration law failed

Alabama tried to kick out its undocumented immigrants with the harshest law in the country. Two year's later, the law's in ruins and the immigrants remain.

www.nbcnews.com

On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a tough law combating illegal immigration, which prompted undocumented workers to flee the state. Few locals will perform the grueling work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural system built on illegal labor are struggling to find replacements before their produce rots.

Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled, farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether.

It’s not only Southern states; farmers all across America are dependent on migrant labor. For example, immigrants make up 40% of Wisconsin’s dairy industry workers and almost one in three U.S. farming and fishing workers is from Mexico.

Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business

On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a…

www.mic.com

Alabama republicans used the citizens of Alabama as Guinea Pigs for their foolish jihad against immigrants. With devastating results for the state. This is what Trump and Vance want to do to America.

And yet....state GDP has only increased since then. Wild.

I understand that a farmer wants cheap exploitative labor for his farms....but apparently they figured out how to increase their economy without it.

 

[The Barbarian]

By the time Biden takes office...he already has a backlog of over 1 million.

Given that those cases were mostly built up from 2017 on....and had a wait of 2-3 years...we should have seen, at bare minimum, over a million cases decided under Biden.

Did Biden deport those people?

Well no, he didn't. Because the republicans in the House blocked his attempt to get more immigration courts to process them faster. Trump correctly claimed that if Biden processed those cases faster, it would Trump politically.

 

[The Barbarian]

Alabama republicans used the citizens of Alabama as Guinea Pigs for their foolish jihad against immigrants. With devastating results for the state. This is what Trump and Vance want to do to America.

And yet....state GDP has only increased since then.

Well, that's a testable assumption...

Alabama is losing workers.

• Unauthorized immigrants comprised roughly 4.2% of the state’s workforce (or 95,000 workers) in 2010, according to a report by the Pew Hispanic Center. However, there are reports that people are leaving the state or going further underground as a result of the new law. This means a significant portion of the workforce is no longer available.
• The Alabama agricultural industry, in particular, is suffering. Alabama Agriculture Commission John McMillan stated, “the economic hardship to farmers and agribusiness will reverberate throughout Alabama’s economy, as one-fifth of all jobs in our state come from farming.”
• Professor Scott Beaulier of Troy University argued that, on economic grounds, it’s absurd to say that HB 56 is a jobs law: “Immigrants—both legal and illegal—are a force for good. They create jobs, they enrich culture and they make our state a more interesting and dynamic one in which to live. Alabama’s immigration law is a pathetic, backward attempt to play politics and protect Alabamians from the bogeyman of immigration.”

Alabama is losing taxpayers.

• According to the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), households headed by unauthorized immigrants collectively paid $130.3 million in state and local taxes in 2010. That included $25.8 million in personal income taxes, $5.8 million in property taxes, and $98.7 million in sales taxes.

• HB 56 is a drag on the Alabama economy.
  

  • According to Prof. Samuel Addy at the Center for Business and Economic Research at the University of Alabama, HB 56 will reduce the Alabama economy by $40 million.
  • Addy said the law “is certain to be a drag on economic development even without considering costs associated with enforcement of the law…demand in the Alabama economy is reduced since the income generated by these people and their spending will decline. That results in a shrinking of the state economy and will be seen in lower economic output, personal income, and fewer jobs than would otherwise have been.”

  

  Bad for Business: How Alabama’s Anti-Immigrant Law Stifles State Economy - American Immigration Council

  Although key provisions of Alabama’s HB 56 are on hold while its constitutionality is being tested in the courts, evidence is mounting of the growing fiscal and economic impact of the new law. State economic experts and business leaders agree that the law has already caused hardship for...

  www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

 

[The Barbarian]

But we aren't talking about U.S. citizens. So you've already gone off the rails here.

In what way?

You're assuming, and offering no evidence, that the circumstances of American citizens and illegal aliens are identical.

Are you saying it's easier for a foreigner to succeed and contribute economically than a US born citizen?

I just showed you that they do. Actual data from real cases. And you offered me a political screed from the House republicans with not data to support it.

They also keep telling you the economy is improving.

Well, Let's see...

• The economy added 15.7 million jobs. The number is now 6.3 million higher than before the pandemic.
• The unemployment rate dropped back and has stayed lower, longer than at any time during the previous administration.

'''

• Despite recent moderation, consumer prices are up more than 19% overall. Gasoline is up 46%
• The U.S. economy has continued to expand under Biden, growing at 2.8% in the second quarter estimate released July 25 — double the rate of growth in the first quarter.

...

• Fewer people lack health insurance. The uninsured went down by 2.1 percentage points or 6.6 million people.
• Crude oil production increased. The daily average for the most recent 12 months is 15.3% higher than the average in 2020, and it’s higher than the pre-pandemic average.

...

• Corporate profits are up 36%.

...

• The number of people receiving food stamps has decreased by more than half a million.

...

• The S&P 500 has increased 42.9%.

Biden's Numbers, July 2024 Update - FactCheck.org

As Biden enters the final months of his presidency, we look at various statistical measures of what's happened during his term.

www.factcheck.org

Since March 2023, wages are rising faster than prices.

​

Doesn't look bad. ​

I deleted crime rate and other data, but if you like, I can restore that. Want to see that?

Not...because GDP is not a measure of economic gains by illegal immigrants.

It's a number trotted out by idiots who don't understand GDP.

GDP is a number trotted out by idiots who don't understand GDP?

See, I was right. You don't know much about economics. As you learned, illegal aliens add a great deal to U.S. GDP. Even many anti-immigrant groups admit that much.

A $7 trillion boost to the economy​

On the surface, the math is pretty simple.​

“More workers means more output, and that in turn leads to additional tax revenue,” Phillip Swagel, director of the Congressional Budget Office, told reporters last month after the agency released a new report on the economic outlook. The report included a special section on immigration and its impact on the economy.

While not all migrants, such as children or the infirm, will or even can find jobs, a large portion of recent and future expected migrants are believed to be between 25 and 54 years old, the CBO report said. People in that age range are considered part of the prime-age working population.

The number of US job openings exceeds the number of unemployed people looking for work by more than 2 million, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

When the economy was reopening after the pandemic shut down businesses, the number of job openings per unemployed person was much higher than it is currently. That drove employers to increase wages but, as a result, contributed to higher inflation.

Immigrants have been playing a crucial role in easing those shortages, Tara Watson, director of the Center for Economic Security and Opportunity at the Brookings Institution, told CNN.

Immigrants are poised to become even more necessary in the US labor market as more baby boomers enter retirement and fertility rates decline, said Watson

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/economy/economy-immigration-surge/index.html

 

[Ana the Ist]

But we aren't talking about U.S. citizens. So you've already gone off the rails here.

Is this some sort of tic or something? Do you need to repost a section of what I said?

You're assuming, and offering no evidence,

Offered evidence. Check the link.

that the circumstances of American citizens and illegal aliens are identical.

I'm quite literally saying that the circumstances are much harder for the illegal....generally speaking.

I just showed you that they do.

On what post?

Well, Let's see...

I pointed out what they tell you....I already know you believed it lol. You don't have to prove me correct.

GDP is a number trotted out by idiots who don't understand GDP?

Yes absolutely.

You went and posted some article about Alabama kicking out illegal immigrants and the supposed disaster it caused to their economy in 2011.

But not only did Alabama’s GDP increase in 2011, it also increased in 2012, it also increased in 2013....

What exactly is this relationship between "illegal immigrants" and "GDP" that you think exists?

 

[The Barbarian]

GDP is a number trotted out by idiots who don't understand GDP?

Yes absolutely.

And here we thought economists understood economics... It's telling that you regard them as idiots.

What exactly is this relationship between "illegal immigrants" and "GDP" that you think exists?

Former Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn performed a study of the impact of illegal immigration in 2006. According to the Texas Tribune,

The results showed that if the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants who lived in the state in 2005 were sent home, Texas would have lost about $17.7 billion in gross domestic product that year.

Data from 2006 Comptroller Study

Former Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn performed a study of the impact of illegal immigration in 2006. According to the Texas Tribune, The results

www.texasmonthly.com

In any event, the Texas State Comptroller has not updated its 2006 report. But other institutions have analyzed and estimated these benefits and costs. The Angelou Economics consulting company took the Texas Comptroller’s report and updated it, accounting for 250,000 additional undocumented immigrants, and converted all figures into current dollars as of 2017.10 According to this report, the state received $2.7 billion in revenue and provided $2.0 billion in state services, with a net benefit of $702.9 million for that year.

Similarly, in 2016, the Perryman Group estimated that the net direct economic benefit of undocumented immigrants was $326.1 billion and $144.7 billion in output every year.11 Adding the multiplier effects,12 the Perryman Group found that the net economic effects were $663.4 billion and $290.3 billion in output. Their estimates included the costs of the undocumented population to society at large, such as education, health care, and social services and also included the fiscal revenues from this population. The Perryman Group used an Input-Output Assessment Model (the U.S. Multi-Regional Impact Assessment System) to estimate the above figures.

Raúl Hinojosa Ojeda, a scholar from California, analyzed only the direct impact of the deportation of undocumented workers on the economy of Texas. In his report, he used the IMPLAN Input-Output model to calculate the direct economic impacts of this policy.13 He found that Texas’s gross state product would be reduced by more than $77.7 billion if all of the undocumented immigrants were deported from the state by 2010. He established some scenarios of deportation, and for a deportation rate of 15% there would be a decrease in the state output of $11.7 billion.

https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/usmx-pub-undocumentedresidents-050620.pdf

 

[The Barbarian]

Getting back to the subject, Rep. Ogles has more pressing concerns than impeachment...

Execution of the search warrant came immediately after Ogles defeated Courtney Johnston in the Republican primary as he seeks a second term in the U.S. Congress. Department of Justice guidelines generally prohibit law enforcement from taking any overt actions in investigations of a political candidate in the 60 days before an election.

Back in May, Ogles filed a series of amended campaign financial reports, admitting he had not personally loaned his campaign $320,000 as he had reported back in 2022.

Other amendments to his campaign financial reports resulted in Ogles retracting claims regarding thousands of dollars in campaign contributions and expenditures that he had previously reported to the Federal Election Commission.

That development came several months after NewsChannel 5 Investigates raised questions about whether Ogles had the financial resources to make that personal loan. Despite having reported making the $320,000 personal loan, Ogles' personal financial disclosures did not show any substantial investments — not even a savings account.

A watchdog group, the Campaign Legal Center, later filed a complaint with the Office of Congressional Ethics, comparing Ogles’ conduct to disgraced New York Congressman George Santos.

Santos is now facing a criminal indictment that accuses him of reporting non-existent personal loans to his campaign in order to be eligible for other campaign contributions.

FBI agents execute search warrant on Tennessee Congressman Andy Ogles, NewsChannel 5 confirms

FBI agents executed a search warrant late last week on Tennessee Congressman Andy Ogles as the first-term Republican faces continuing scrutiny over fraudulent campaign financial reports that he filed

www.newschannel5.com

 

[Ana the Ist]

GDP is a number trotted out by idiots who don't understand GDP?

There it is again. That tic.

And here we thought economists understood economics... It's telling that you regard them as idiots.

You're about to quote a "study" by a "comptroller".

Former Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn performed a study of the impact of illegal immigration in 2006. According to the Texas Tribune,

A comptroller is basically a budget accountant.

Data from 2006 Comptroller Study

Former Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn performed a study of the impact of illegal immigration in 2006. According to the Texas Tribune, The results

www.texasmonthly.com

This is still funny. Seriously, it doesn't get old no matter how many times you quote it.

For a change of pace though...let's look at what happened in Alabama.

You said this....

Alabama republicans used the citizens of Alabama as Guinea Pigs for their foolish jihad against immigrants. With devastating results for the state. This is what Trump and Vance want to do to America.

Well, that's a testable assumption...

Alabama is losing workers. ​

• Unauthorized immigrants comprised roughly 4.2% of the state’s workforce (or 95,000 workers) in 2010, according to a report by the Pew Hispanic Center. However, there are reports that people are leaving the state or going further underground as a result of the new law. This means a significant portion of the workforce is no longer available.
• The Alabama agricultural industry, in particular, is suffering. Alabama Agriculture Commission John McMillan stated, “the economic hardship to farmers and agribusiness will reverberate throughout Alabama’s economy, as one-fifth of all jobs in our state come from farming.”
• Professor Scott Beaulier of Troy University argued that, on economic grounds, it’s absurd to say that HB 56 is a jobs law: “Immigrants—both legal and illegal—are a force for good. They create jobs, they enrich culture and they make our state a more interesting and dynamic one in which to live. Alabama’s immigration law is a pathetic, backward attempt to play politics and protect Alabamians from the bogeyman of immigration.”

Alabama is losing taxpayers. ​

• According to the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), households headed by unauthorized immigrants collectively paid $130.3 million in state and local taxes in 2010. That included $25.8 million in personal income taxes, $5.8 million in property taxes, and $98.7 million in sales taxes.

• HB 56 is a drag on the Alabama economy.
  

  • According to Prof. Samuel Addy at the Center for Business and Economic Research at the University of Alabama, HB 56 will reduce the Alabama economy by $40 million.
  • Addy said the law “is certain to be a drag on economic development even without considering costs associated with enforcement of the law…demand in the Alabama economy is reduced since the income generated by these people and their spending will decline. That results in a shrinking of the state economy and will be seen in lower economic output, personal income, and fewer jobs than would otherwise have been.”

  

  Bad for Business: How Alabama’s Anti-Immigrant Law Stifles State Economy - American Immigration Council

  Although key provisions of Alabama’s HB 56 are on hold while its constitutionality is being tested in the courts, evidence is mounting of the growing fiscal and economic impact of the new law. State economic experts and business leaders agree that the law has already caused hardship for...

  www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org

Here's Alabama’s GDP...year over year...pay close attention to how it really takes off after a 2010 dip...you know, when they kicked out so many illegals.

See that dip right before 2010? That would be when they were getting fed up with all the illegals. See it take off after 2010? Yeah...

So while an accountant's fantasy scenario of some hypothetical "what I believe would happen if" study from 2006 is fun...we have actual data of GDP skyrocketing in Alabama. Regardless of any other stats....GDP grew. Meanwhile, Texas is currently shipping illegals out of state because of the massive economic drain they cause.


Did they teach any economics in those 3 economics classes you took? Do you recall any of it?

 

[The Barbarian]

See that dip right before 2010? That would be when they were getting fed up with all the illegals.

Most economists would have noted that the dip coincided with the Great Recession, which affected the United States like most of the world. C'mon...

Great Recession - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You should at least try to be plausible. Notice it's not constant dollars. They graphed inflation.

Did they teach any economics in those 3 economics classes you took? Do you recall any of it?

Actually, every science teaches students to make sure that correlation actually involves causation.

It could have saved you a lot of embarrassment if you had learned that.

Your graph shows inflation,not real GDP. Notice that it becomes even steeper after the pandemic? Did you not even think about that?

C'mon,

On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a tough law combating illegal immigration, which prompted undocumented workers to flee the state. Few locals will perform the grueling work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural system built on illegal labor are struggling to find replacements before their produce rots.

Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled, farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether.

It’s not only Southern states; farmers all across America are dependent on migrant labor. For example, immigrants make up 40% of Wisconsin’s dairy industry workers and almost one in three U.S. farming and fishing workers is from Mexico.

Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business

On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a…

www.mic.com