There is no Free Will PERIOD

[Neogaia777]

Knowing what decision I WILL MAKE doesn’t change the fact that I MADE THE DECISION.

Wrong. If anyone knows all of your choices 100%, then all other possibilities are always absolutely 0%, which means they can ever only go one way, and you didn't choose it, but that there were other factors (determinism) that already predetermined/chose it.

 

[Panthers]

So we can choose to obey or disobey God’s commandments?

You have no choice until choice is presented to you; by Son or by Father.
Until then, you are merely eternal teachers to those who have choice.
Forever bound inside the tumbler, for another season.

 

[BeyondET]

And your wrong. There is only one of two choices in that case, etc. To obey, or disobey, etc. And how does God already knowing change any of that for us when we still don't know, etc? You still have to make choices and/or choose anyway.

Ok, let's say you were going to choose to obey, but then you found out this information that I am telling you about right now, etc, does that mean your now going to try to change your choices to all be worse, or bad, or to all now disobeying because of this?

If so, then just exactly why would you do that really, etc?

Would you not just simply choose what you were just normally always going to choose anyway?

God Bless.

Interesting, like a traffic light at a intersection. If the light is green I will proceed through it.

But if out of the corner of my eye. I see a car approaching the intersection yet isn't seeing the red light on their side of the road and is barreling towards it.

I will choose to stop before going through it. Though hopefully I see it in time or the other driver does, to avoid a accident.

 

[Neogaia777]

What you don’t seem to understand is that what we do from now until eternity is shaping what God has already foreknown. We are actually dictating what God foreknew at creation by the decisions we make.

Shaping what God has already foreknown?

So does that mean God doesn't know until we shape it?

Dictating what God foreknew?

So does that mean God doesn't know until we dictate it?

Quit playing word games.

God Bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You have no choice until choice is presented to you; by Son or by Father.
Until then, you are merely eternal teachers to those who have choice.
Forever bound inside the tumbler, for yet another season.

So you’re saying that I do make a choice? Am I making this choice of my own free will?

 

[rturner76]

@

I'm not going to address everything I'd need to individually address about this post, but there will be another individual post by me forthcoming.

This also just simply isn't important enough to me to prove you wrong about this either, etc.

But I will try just a few more times and there will be another post of two by me forthcoming, ok.

God Bless.

I can see why you wouldn't because you couldn't

 

[Neogaia777]

Interesting, like a traffic light at a intersection. If the light is green I will proceed through it.

But if out of the corner of my eye. I see a car approaching the intersection yet isn't seeing the red light on their side of the road and is barreling towards it.

I'd choose to stop before going through it. Though hopefully I see it in time or the other driver does to avoid a accident.

Is there a point about free will and/or determinism/predestination/omniscience/foreknowledge you are trying to make here?

God Bless.

 

[Panthers]

Earth should be considered a rock tumbler,
and it's participants a rock.

For the Lord is our Rock.
Psalm 18:2


No rock has control inside the tumbler.
For even Christ was crucified.
Rocks do not shape themselves either,
other rocks do;
other rocks that have no control themselves.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Shaping what God has already foreknown?

So does that mean God doesn't know until we shape it?

Dictating what God foreknew?

So does that mean God doesn't know until we dictate it?

Quit playing word games.

God Bless.

No it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t know because He exists in all time simultaneously. You’re thinking about this from a human perspective. Humans can’t know what will happen before it happens God knows everything that will happen because He sees all, He knows all, He is everywhere, in all time simultaneously.

 

[rturner76]

I’m trying to understand why God gave us commandments if He controls everything we do? Why say thou shalt not do this or that if we can only do what He makes us do. That doesn’t make any sense at all.

Me either. That's one reason I believe that we are granted free will and we are not just robots.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Earth should be considered a rock tumbler,
and it's participants a rock.

For the Lord is our Rock.
Psalm 18:2


No rock has control inside the tumbler.
For even Christ was crucified.
Rocks do not shape themselves either,
other rocks do;
other rocks that have no control themselves.

Do I make a choice of my own free will or not. You seem to be avoiding your own discussion.

 

[Neogaia777]

I can see why you wouldn't because you couldn't

You were all over the place with just about everything in your post that I didn't feel like trying to take or waste my time trying to address all of them.

But I will tag your name in a new post that I will make here in a while, and you can try to address that if you want.

God Bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Me either. That's one reason I believe that we are granted free will and we are not just robots.

Yeah it’s like me telling my Rc car don’t go over there and don’t go that way when I’m the one controlling it. It doesn’t make sense.

 

[Neogaia777]

I can see why you wouldn't because you couldn't

Can't, and won't, or don't want to, are very, very different things.

 

[Panthers]

Do I make a choice of my own free will or not. You seem to be avoiding your own discussion.

The problem is letting go that you do.
This universe was designed for two people having freewill
#1 Father and #2 Son.

In the secular world, participants are taught that neither actually exists.
therefore all #3 servants and #4 slaves, abnormally think they are #1 and #2.
even going so far as calling themselves Father and Son.

Is partly why I mention this in the introduction.

We as Servants have three commandments.

#1 Be fruitful Multiply Genesis 1:22
#2 eat plants not animals or you will die Genesis 1:29 Genesis 9:4
#3 do what God tells you.

Being a servant alots us into picking our mates and providing for.

Not flying around like conquerors and eating rib eye.

 

[BeyondET]

Is there a point about free will and/or determinism/predestination/omniscience/foreknowledge you are trying to make here?

God Bless.

Free will is the here and now, Yes God knows already the choices we make and is the only One.

Is our beginning and end predestined indeed, from what is happening right now.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Earth should be considered a rock tumbler,
and it's participants a rock.

For the Lord is our Rock.
Psalm 18:2


No rock has control inside the tumbler.
For even Christ was crucified.
Rocks do not shape themselves either,
other rocks do;
other rocks that have no control themselves.

View attachment 352874

Ok let’s try scripture then. Romans 2:4-5

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

How is it that God’s kindness and patience is leading these people to repentance but because of their stubborn heart they are refusing to cooperate?

Or Luke 13:6-9

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why is the outcome of the tree still uncertain whether or not it will bear fruit despite Jesus’ efforts to save the tree?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The problem is letting go that you do.
This universe was designed for two people having freewill
#1 Father and #2 Son.

In the secular world, participants are taught that neither actually exists.
therefore all #3 servants and #4 slaves, abnormally think they are #1 and #2.
even going so far as calling themselves Father and Son.

Is partly why I mention this in the introduction.

We as Servants have three commandments.

#1 Be fruitful Multiply Genesis 1:22
#2 eat plants not animals or you will die Genesis 1:29 Genesis 9:4
#3 do what God tells you.

Being a servant alots us into picking our mates and providing for.

Not flying around like conquerors and eating rib eye.

Why do your replies never answer my simple question? Do I make a choice to obey or disobey God or not. It’s a simple yes or no answer.

 

[Panthers]

Ok let’s try scripture then. Romans 2:4-5

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

How is it that God’s kindness and patience is leading these people to repentance but because of their stubborn heart they are refusing to cooperate?

Or Luke 13:6-9

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why is the outcome of the tree still uncertain whether or not it will bear fruit despite Jesus’ efforts to save the tree?

Both show the breaking down of the organic machine.
Why we need new bodies and minds. Romans 8:23

 

[BeyondET]

Earth should be considered a rock tumbler,
and it's participants a rock.

For the Lord is our Rock.
Psalm 18:2


No rock has control inside the tumbler.
For even Christ was crucified.
Rocks do not shape themselves either,
other rocks do;
other rocks that have no control themselves.

View attachment 352874

Thanks there Panthers rock.

I had no idea just look this up.

Clay is the smallest type of rock particle, measuring less than 2 microns, or 0.002 millimeters.