To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race

[IceJad]

I know too many Trump supporters to toss them all in the same pit. Many are good and decent people, who are just die-hard republicans. There is a cult, but not every Trump supporter is a blind fanatic.

You can blame the MSM for this. Day in day out Trump is this and his supporters are that. Or Biden/Harris are these and their supporters are that. They only want to show the fanatics of both sides because the MSM are partisan mouthpieces guised as news.

 

[eclipsenow]

First and foremost I'm not American.

Secondly any notion that a group of unelected people get's to determine the suitability of a candidate is nothing short of elitism.

Um, that's pretty much the entire Westminster system of government. That's the yellow ones.

Who are we to say they can't.

Adults who should know better than to allow that embarrassing catastrophe. People might also want the right to all sorts of crazy and dangerous and horrid things - but so what? We make laws as a society to get by. We make political systems as a society to get by.

We may think we have all the information to deem Trump unsuitable but do we have the totality of the truth?

No one does - yet we still have to vote anyway.
No party does - as stuff often comes out after the choosing. But in Westminster countries - they have a vetting process and then present their candidates to the public. They might have opinion polls etc, but generally - I've had no choice in my party's pick of leader. I just have to vote for my party.

Are there counterpoints we dismiss because of our biases. You deem him traitor. Yet some also deem Biden traitor. You have your "evidence" and they have theirs. Who is right? I'm not God to know.

It's not that hard. We have LOTS of evidence. What news have you been watching to miss how much legal trouble Trump is still in, what he's already been convicted of - and most importantly - what the former CIA director thinks of him?

 

[The Barbarian]

You can blame the MSM for this.

Fox one of those.

Day in day out Trump is this and his supporters are that.

The insurrection was kind of a tip-off. Only a minority of Trump supporters followed his orders and attempted to overthrow the government, or even supported the attempt. News media being what they are, they reported the exceptions and never mentioned the millions of Trump supporters who accepted his loss and went on with their lives.

But the cult was the interesting news. And so we saw that.

Or Biden/Harris are these and their supporters are that.

Yes. If Biden had lost and his supporters had attacked the Capitol, the same kind of reporting would have gone on.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm intrigued by the thinking of Trumpsters who are talking about taking legal action to force the democrats to nominate Biden, even if he doesn't want to run.

A nation of kettles and pots unfortunately.

Even most Trump supporters know better than that. I doubt if such a lawsuit even makes it to court.

 

[th1bill]

Sure - it's a cheap and easy psychological ploy to say "At least I'm not like that guy!" That's not what this is about. This is about a nation willing to have that guy represent them in an official capacity!

But it's even more serious than that.
Forget his civil sexual assault cases and conviction over defrauding NYC.
Forget the other personal character failings.

The Australian ABC’s flagship current affairs program “4 Corners” ran a special on Project 2025 called "Retribution" which was alarming enough. But after that aired they shared the full interview with the former CIA director.

”Leon Panetta says countries are governed either by leadership or by crisis. He tells Four Corners that democracy would be threatened if Trump was to be re-elected as President of the United States and says, ‘it was bad enough the first time’. Panetta speaks about what he sees as Trump’s disregard for intelligence, focus on power, desire to mobilise the military and what that would mean for the United States. In this interview, Panetta shares his fears about America’s future and exposes the troubles of the first Trump administration.”​

The section on Trump not wanting to even listen to intelligence briefings - so that America is effectively without a Commander in Chief - and not wanting to be in NATO - weakening the world - are just plain alarming. Trump should not be let near a political party - let alone be a Candidate for the White House.

I'll admit, Leon is good at lying with a straight face.

 

[th1bill]

Fox one of those.

I am shaken to the boots! I agree! FNC is now owned by Disney and is so far left only Yashuah can help.

 

[JustOneWay]

I am shaken to the boots! I agree! FNC is now owned by Disney and is so far left only Yashuah can help.

Wrong.

 

[eclipsenow]

I'll admit, Leon is good at lying with a straight face.

I'll admit - there are some who will basically do what Tommy the Turtle did and "Duck and cover" when faced with inconvenient facts - until those facts go away. Then they're happily back in their opinions - untroubled by the real world outside.

 

[JustOneWay]

After Trump's awful appearance yesterday at the black journalists conference, republicans really should have tried to get a better choice than this broken down old man. He has no ideas for America and should step aside.

 

[The Barbarian]

His loss in 2020 shook him badly. And his subsequent criminal conviction and rise of Kamela Harris seems to have put him over the edge.

 

[eclipsenow]

I'll admit, Leon is good at lying with a straight face.

Then why is everything Leon says completely in-line with about 75% of the administration who worked with him, were fired by him, and now cannot stand him?

And why won't you believe all these people - fired in the greatest turnover in White House staff in history - and instead choose to believe the one man responsible for it all? A man whose every public appearance and rally must be fact-checked because he lies every 40 seconds or so. Wow. Just wow. But hey - it's your choice to come on line and admit you believe in him.

 

[IceJad]

Um, that's pretty much the entire Westminster system of government. That's the yellow ones.
View attachment 352468

Westminster system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's not what Westminster system is about. The Westminster system doesn't bar participation of citizen who wants to become head of state. That is a totally different thing. You're suggesting sometime more akin to China's system for Hong Kong there the elites in Beijing get to vet the candidates for their elections. By suggesting that people be disallowed based on your criteria of suitability.

Adults who should know better than to allow that embarrassing catastrophe. People might also want the right to all sorts of crazy and dangerous and horrid things - but so what? We make laws as a society to get by. We make political systems as a society to get by.

That is the definition of elitism. That a select group of "all knowing" people get to tell others what that should or shouldn't choose. To me as long as Trump meets the bare minimum requirements to stand in a US election he should be allowed. AND the people should be given the choice to vote for him unhindered. Anyone who thinks that democracy should be left to the "learned" is actually practising oligarchy. Because you can't trust the people to vote the way you think is most beneficial therefore a form of control is required.

No one does - yet we still have to vote anyway.
No party does - as stuff often comes out after the choosing. But in Westminster countries - they have a vetting process and then present their candidates to the public. They might have opinion polls etc, but generally - I've had no choice in my party's pick of leader. I just have to vote for my party.

Nothing is stopping you from getting yourself voted in by participating in the election as an independent. There is no mechanism to stop you from doing so. What vetting when you go independent besides the minimum requirements set to run for as candidate.

It's not that hard. We have LOTS of evidence. What news have you been watching to miss how much legal trouble Trump is still in, what he's already been convicted of - and most importantly - what the former CIA director thinks of him?

Of those that was charged which of them are "traitorous" to the US? Do you understand legally what treason is? The question is - is he charged with treason? Yes or No. Does his other charges disqualify him from running as a candidate? Yes or No. If the courts said no what is your justification to say otherwise? Because you personally don't have high regards of Trump?

If the CIA director is the masterpiece of your argument then Trump supporter can also point to Biden's incompetence for Afghan's retreat where the generals advised Biden and he didn't take their advise. What now? Like I said biases blind us. Are we God to know?

Ex-US generals who oversaw Afghan exit describe chaos and challenges of withdrawal

Two former top generals testified to Congress about the "strategic failure" to prevent a Taliban takeover.

www.bbc.com

It is as simple as that. If a person is legally eligible to participate then we respect that. If we want standards to change because they allow people we don't like to participate then just change to dictatorship. No point saying by the people and for the people.

 

[eclipsenow]

By Westminster system of government I meant that I get to vote for my party. But unless I am REALLY high up in the party apparatus - I don't get to choose who stands on behalf of my party. The average Australian does NOT get to select who represents Labor or Liberal at the next election. Got it? Because you shifted the subject to who can volunteer to serve in a party - which is an entirely different subject.

I was just pointing out that the whole notion of "Kamala held a coup" as some might accuse the current Democrat situation just sounds silly to us in the Westminster system - as our parties vet the candidates. They'll even hold a leadership ballot themselves while in government if the opinion polls are bad enough! It represents the people in the sense that if Boris Johnstone or Australia's Julia Gillard are 'bad enough' - the party will replace them.

We've had some arrogant and unpopular politicians in our time. We've had some really weird and rather uneducated people get elected to the Senate to represent their strange little minority group. Our Pauline Hanson is probably the closest thing to an "Aussie Trump" that we could point at.

But the idea that our main parties would ever select Donald Trump to lead them to the polls is just funny. Even Pauline Hanson doesn't have Trump's various convictions or allegations of inciting an insurrection on Jan 6! She's racist, nasty, and full of wild conspiracies. Which pretty much represents her weird little area of rural Queensland. But convicted of fraud and sexual assault? No! Not even Pauline Hanson has those against her name. And again - a small weird vastly unpopular little party - except for some small weird little areas of the Aussie bush.
But the main parties? They would never have someone like Pauline lead them. Let alone TRUMP! The parties would vet them! They want to win the election! Someone like Trump would be a sure fail given EVERY Australian must vote. It's compulsory - and so the politicians must appeal to the bored middle.
I think that's why Trump gets to be leader. In a voluntary voting system the politicians must appeal to the frenzied edges of society - those people revved up enough about stuff that they'll actually go out and vote! And now with social media - the whole thing feeds off itself and becomes madder and madder.

It's really sad that America has got this bad. This vulnerable!

 

[th1bill]

His loss in 2020 shook him badly. And his subsequent criminal conviction and rise of Kamela Harris seems to have put him over the edge.

SCOTUS declared every charge to be phony.

 

[Postvieww]

The dems do appreciate what Biden has done for the country. Biden cares about the country, the same cannot be said for his opponent.

Sounds like something is reversed here.

 

[eclipsenow]

SCOTUS declared every charge to be phony.

SCOTUS did no such thing, because every charge was not even heard in the first place.
SCOTUS said Trump was allowed to talk to his VP on the day - so make the case go away!
SCOTUS whitewashed a tomb full of nasty things they did not want to open up and investigate.
SCOTUS has placed your country at grave risk of dramatic Democratic Decline - and I'm not talking about the Democratic Party.

Your balance of powers is a bit out there now that Trump has stacked SCOTUS - so watch out or you might just get what you wish.
Trump for life - and then whatever successors he choses.
In other words,
Monarchy. Didn't you guys fight a war to be free of all that?

 

[The Barbarian]

SCOTUS declared every charge to be phony.

Nope. He's still a convicted criminal. SCOTUS has not overturned the jury decision. Trump is a convicted felon.

Sounds like something is reversed here.

For example, Donald Trump has referred to veterans as "suckers" and "losers." Gen. Kelly confirmed it.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're suggesting sometime more akin to China's system for Hong Kong there the elites in Beijing get to vet the candidates for their elections. By suggesting that people be disallowed based on your criteria of suitability.

The Trump people seem to be considering a lawsuit to let them decide who the democrat nominee will be. So they are getting close.

 

[Postvieww]

For example, Donald Trump has referred to veterans as "suckers" and "losers." Gen. Kelly confirmed it.

Denied by Pompeo, Bolton and Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I’ll believe them you believe what you wish.

 

[Postvieww]

Nope. He's still a convicted criminal. SCOTUS has not overturned the jury decision. Trump is a convicted felon.

Fake news! One is not convicted until the Judge enters the verdict. Tell us when that was done.