FBI identifies Trump rally shooter as Thomas Matthew Crooks <--- Thread is about the perpetrator, the crime, and the motivation, not Trump

[RDKirk]

Its a reasonable judgement based on real facts that happened. Contrast that with concocting a whole set of lies and clinging to them for dear life.

Technicalities apply equally. That still adds up to "fair and square."

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The whole thing was a fake staged PsyOp :

.

Fake Staged PsyOp??

Sorry, the Jesse Ventura forum is in another section.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yet it happened. We all know it.

This kid shooting at Donald Trump will not be the end of this ridiculous political violence either. Until we remove the fuel and spark and air from our political environment.

I don't blame my father for how my life ended up. I am solely responsible for myself.

Too many people want to place blame elsewhere, rather than taking a good look in the mirror. *We* are the spark... *We* are the flame!

 

[BPPLEE]

There have been a whole bunch over the years. Personally I think anyone soft headed enough to be swayed by rhetoric like that was a few planks short of a raft to begin with.

Anyone who would murder someone to protest murder is definitely not all there to begin with

 

[iluvatar5150]

Do you not see the double-standard here?


So you're saying that it was "reasonable" to question election results due to a very real set of extenuating circumstances in one case pertaining to irregularities in the voting process, but not in another?

Questioning is one thing. Building a whole conspiracy theory based on nothing but out of context videos and outright fraud is another. In 2000, Florida had a bunch of garbage ballots that left a lot of votes in a state of ambiguity. Gore wanted a recount, and when the SCOTUS saw that each county was applying different standards to their recounts, they said no. To the proposal that each county use a uniform standard, they said no to that, too, because there wouldn't be enough time. Lots of analysts, then and since, have said the decision was questionable-at-best, but the facts underlying it weren't in dispute.

In 2020, yes, you had changes to the process, but no evidence of wrongdoing. It was all Trump & Co running a con.

 

[durangodawood]

Do you not see the double-standard here?


So you're saying that it was "reasonable" to question election results due to a very real set of extenuating circumstances in one case pertaining to irregularities in the voting process, but not in another?

I'd argue that what happened in 2020 (with the big changes that were made to how people vote) constitutes a more sweeping set of extenuating circumstances than what happened in 2000 and 2004.

There were states that literally switched to a universal (ID-free) system of voting in response to covid (which I don't think anyone would deny favored democrats over republicans), that's a bigger shift away from "the norm" than anything that happened in 2000 or 2004.

There was no evidence of meaningful 2020 voter fraud after utterly exhaustive examination. So, yeah its a bunch "2000 mules" style lies.

The basis for judgement in Gore / Bush is totally above board. You may reason to a different conclusion, but for the most part no one is foisting a whole set of "alternative facts" on the country. Its completely different from 2020.

And people who argue that you must never question election results no matter what are silly. If theres a real factual basis for dispute, then theres a case.

 

[rjs330]

Or...?

...We could drop the "Trump incited Jan. 6" nonsense.

He walked right into that one. It just goes to show the hypocrisy of the argumment of philosophy on the left are and how unhinged they are.

 

[bèlla]

Just saw this on a financial channel. The link has the ad.

BlackRock yanks 2022 ad featuring Trump shooter Thomas Matthew Crooks

 

[Brihaha]

I don't blame my father for how my life ended up. I am solely responsible for myself.

Too many people want to place blame elsewhere, rather than taking a good look in the mirror. *We* are the spark... *We* are the flame!

Boy Howdy! That Trump feller is the benchmark for misplaced blame lol.
"I don't take responsibility at all."
He even says it. Here's a reminder:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/trump-coronavirus-testing-128971

 

[Landon Caeli]

Boy Howdy! That Trump feller is the benchmark for misplaced blame lol.
"I don't take responsibility at all."
He even says it. Here's a reminder:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/trump-coronavirus-testing-128971

Be honest... Did you just Google "Trump doesn't take blame" and then post the first article you saw? Just curious.

...Because that's not really related to the conversation at hand.

 

[Belk]

He walked right into that one. It just goes to show the hypocrisy of the argumment of philosophy on the left are and how unhinged they are.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Brihaha]

Be honest... Did you just Google "Trump doesn't take blame" and then post the first article you saw? Just curious.

...Because that's not really related to the conversation at hand.

It is the entire point. It is hypocrisy to say people should take responsibility for their actions while simultaneously endorsing a man who never takes responsibility.

It wasn't the first link I saw. Lol
I was looking for the specific quote

"I don't take responsibility at all."

Because that is the perfect synopsis of one Don J Trump.

 

[Ana the Ist]

He said he didnt support gay marriage early on. During that time I didnt believe him. I thought he was lying because public support for gay marriage felt just a little too daring at that moment.

So basically, yes to your question.

Ty...just wanted to be sure I was reading it correctly.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I can see the motive for the Trump people to do it.

But for facts I'll wait for more than random youtube content. The track record there is poor.

The "this was staged" idea is a left wing conspiracy theory that started out pretty early in the first hours after the shooting.

A man died and two were hospitalized. That news wasn't shared widely before the "it was staged conspiracy theory" broke. It largely hinged on the idea of the gunshots being fake since no one was hurt besides Trump's ear.

I also think conspiracy theories about the secret service are pretty much bonkers as well. Everyone keeps talking about their "failures" and what should have been done....Monday morning quarterbacking the event. They covered him, killed the shooter, then got him out of there....alive. It hardly matters if someone believes they didn't do their job perfectly....they did it successfully.

I've seen cops on hectic scenes make perfect shots that were 100% justified and they still get criticized.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is the entire point. It is hypocrisy to say people should take responsibility for their actions while simultaneously endorsing a man who never takes responsibility.

What exactly is he supposed to take responsibility for?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I am amused you keep referring to them as "the SS".

It's not a great set of initials is it?

 

[rjs330]

What on earth are you talking about?

The hypocrisy of the left condemning Trumps "fight" words saying he's inciting things while at the same time defending or failing to condemn the "Hitler" or "Fscist", or "eliminate," type comments from the left that are equal to or worse than anything Trump might have said.

Believing that his word incited people to attack the capitol but reject that those words incited someone to try and take out this very dangerous and deadly man.
It's hypocritical and unhinged.

And while you personally may have not accused Trump continually. You sure said it was an appropriate or accurate assessment. Which is paramount to the same thing.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

There was no evidence of meaningful 2020 voter fraud after utterly exhaustive examination. So, yeah its a bunch "2000 mules" style lies.

The basis for judgement in Gore / Bush is totally above board. You may reason to a different conclusion, but for the most part no one is foisting a whole set of "alternative facts" on the country. Its completely different from 2020.

And people who argue that you must never question election results no matter what are silly. If theres a real factual basis for dispute, then theres a case.

I would agree that there's no evidence of "impactful" voter fraud in 2020, in that, any irregularities that did occur, didn't change the outcome. I've said before and I'll say now, Biden was the winner.

But the same is true for 2000 and 2004. The only reason people think that Bush v. Gore or Bush v. Kerry is any different, is for partisan reasons...or for reasons that I would consider "hack" reasons, like the complaints about the popular votes not lining up with the electoral votes (people knew we weren't a direct democracy in terms of presidential elections going into it)


I would also argue that "utterly exhaustive examination" is misleading within the context of what people were concerned about.

How do you give a quality examination under a system where people can mail in something without having to provide any proof that it's them? Simple answer, you can't. That's like saying that "the honor system" is a reliable system...clearly it's not lol.


It's like saying "The Cleveland Police only arrested 6 people for DUI last weekend, those are the only documented DUIs, there's no concrete evidence that there were any other people drunk driving beyond those 6 people"

Sure, the only hard evidence would be limited to those six hypothetical incidents so the statement is semantically true, but one would have to be naive to believe that nobody else in the entire city was driving drunk that weekend.

You can "utterly examine those six cases to the point of exhaustion", it doesn't lend any credibility to the idea that those were the only 6 drunk drivers in Cleveland that weekend.

Democrats shot themselves in the foot by thinking that at the only way to counter a GOP argument that something is a "huge issue!" is by pretending it's a "non-issue".

 

[rjs330]

Still nothing more on the shooter. Interesting.

 

[Brihaha]

What exactly is he supposed to take responsibility for?

How about his own actions for starters?
Too much to ask? I can't believe I waste time on the inane comments I see. I think I'll take some responsibility and return to ignoring them lol. See how it works?