Sinning Willfully, a study in Hebrews

[SabbathBlessings]

You keep quoting condemnation scripture. When a person states that Sinners who are saved by Grace, who are forgiven a life debt of Sin are not Saved, because that person has been extra biblically trained to believe that Jesus only forgave Past sins, they are calling The Blood of God, nothing more than God's approval for people to sin. IMO

I dislike all of this, but if you read through thread histories where people are about to give up faith, this is one of the core teachings that causes it.

Jesus FULFILLED the Law. It is finished means that "THE DEBT IS PAID IN FULL" by the Greek.

So Jesus died so we can worship other gods, vain His holy name, bow to idols, covet, steal, murder and break the least of these commandments, the opposite of what Jesus taught, Either Jesus is wrong or someone is out of harmony with His teachings. Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Jesus filled-full the law- like when someone fill fulls their wedding covenant- does that mean they can go commit adultery or is one faithful in their wedding vows. This is what Jesus taught, John 15:10 John 14:15 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13. Not a dot or tittle can pass from His law- heaven and earth would pass and that hasn’t happened until all is fulfilled onceJesus comes back which is why breaking the least of these commandments affects our status in heaven and we are in fear of sin and Judgement in doing so. Mat 5:19-30

 

[Grip Docility]

Jesus said breaking the least of these commandments quoting from the Ten one would be least in heaven and fear of sin and Judgement, and having our hearts far from Him- teaching the opposite by using Paul words out of context seems like a good place because Paul never taught to break the least of these commandment in teaching or actions, so if you can’t make your argument with Jesus teachings and you have Paul contradicting Jesus- someone is wrong in this scenario and its not Jesus.

I keep making it with Jesus, Paul, Hebrews, James and all scripture.

Fulfilled. The Law is Fulfilled. Jesus Fulfilled the Law. Did He not say that?

James says to infract one law of the 10 brings its entire weight on a person in condemnation.

Hebrews says that The Tablets of the Covenant are in the Old Covenant

Paul says that Jesus Crucified all charges against us and that the LAW is the POWER behind SIN, used by Death, which Hebrews reveals to be the Devil.

I can keep going to each location and making the point. IMO

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I keep making it with Jesus, Paul, Hebrews, James and all scripture.

Fulfilled. The Law is Fulfilled. Jesus Fulfilled the Law. Did He not say that?

James says to infract one law of the 10 brings its entire weight on a person in condemnation.

Hebrews says that The Tablets of the Covenant are in the Old Covenant

Paul says that Jesus Crucified all charges against us and that the LAW is the POWER behind SIN, used by Death, which Hebrews reveals to be the Devil.

I can keep going to each location and making the point. IMO

Well I hope that works out for you- Jesus taught something different Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 5:19-30

Take care.

 

[Grip Docility]

So Jesus died so we can worship other gods, vain His holy name, bow to idols, covet, steal, murder and break the least of these commandments, the opposite of what Jesus taught, Either Jesus is wrong or someone is out of harmony with His teachings. Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Who needs an idol, when Jesus did for me, what I am incapable of doing for myself? Love is far superior to 10 commandments. I'm not God's slave, but instead, by scripture, now adopted as His son. I don't need rules to follow Jesus. I am commanded to LOVE. Love doesn't place stone weights on the backs of the brethren. We are all entitled to Love Him as He convicts each of us, but all Christians stumble and fall. The teaching of this OP literally ties up heavy burdens on the backs of the brethren. We are under LOVE and GRACE. Love is our Law.

Why would anyone trade that for anything at all?

Jesus filled-full the law- like when someone fill fulls their wedding covenant- does that mean they can go commit adultery or is one faithful in His covenant. This is what Jesus taught, John 15:10 John 14:15 May 19:17-19 May 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

The passages says He "Fulfilled", "Completed", "Made Complete", "FINISHED".

IT IS FINISHED (I PAY IN FULL)

 

[Grip Docility]

Well I hope that works out for you- Jesus taught something different Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 5:19-30

Take care.

Jesus didn't teach what is between scripture and Jesus, in this discussion. IMO

Scripture is plain on this. Jesus came for SINNERS and can't help the "well". Jesus came to FULFILL the Law. He did that. He said "It is finished". This is Jesus' Teaching. Hebrews, Paul and James only make it more clear. John mentions the Law of Love so many times that it is beyond amazing. Peter Teaches Love, over and over.

Paul wrote an entire chapter called the Love chapter.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

For this is the Love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

Love does not go undefined in scripture. Mat 13:9 Love is the basis of the Ten Commandments according to God Exo 20:6 which Jesus repeated and taught John 14:15 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19-30 and lived John 15:10 for our example to follow in His footsteps 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 which this love and faith reconciles Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

Why would Jesus give us warning about His Second Coming Mat 7:23 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15 , that has not happened, if we are not supposed to live by His Words Mat 4:4. His first warning, He told before His Second Coming is be sure no one deceives us. Jesus never taught lawlessness, He taught us to keep His Commandments though love and faith.

 

[Grip Docility]

For this is the Love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

Love does not go undefined in scriputre. Love is the basis of the Ten Commandments according to God Exo 20:6 which Jesus repeated and taught John 14:15 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19-30 and lived John 15:10 for our example to follow in His footsteps 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 which this love and faith reconciles Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

1 John 4 is the context for 1st John 5:3

It is astounding to Count how many times John uses the word LOVE...

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

CONTEXT FOR 1 John 5:4​

1 John 4:21 is direct context for 1 John 5:4 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

Just as in John 13, it is the NEW COMMAND OF JESUS CHRIST. It says "This Command", not Old Covenant Commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

1 John 4 is the context for 1st John 5:3

It is astounding to Count how many times John uses the word LOVE...

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

CONTEXT FOR 1 John 5:4​

1 John 4:21 is direct context for 1 John 5:4 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

Just as in John 13, it is the NEW COMMAND OF JESUS CHRIST. It says "This Command", not Old Covenant Commandments.

Jesus taught the commandments of God are from the Ten Commandments- Mat 15:3-14- did Jesus make a mistake by quoting them and calling them the commandments of God? Loving neighbor is also from the Ten Commandments Rom 13:9 and loving God is too Exo 20:6

I think once Jesus or God defines something for us, its final. There is no Greater Authority than God.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ directly found in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:14

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here[b] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Which is why the same commandments are quoted from right before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 22:14-15 just as Jesus taught and lived.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree, all gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[Grip Docility]

Jesus taught the commandments of God are from the Ten Commandments- Mat 15:3-14- did Jesus make a mistake by quoting them and calling them the commandments of God?

Right, Jesus said He was going to FULFILL these for us. He did that. IT IS FINISHED (I Pay in Full, The Debt)

Loving neighbor is from the Ten Commandments Rom 13:9 and loving God is too Exo 20:6

No, Love thy neighbor is not one of the 10 commandments. Ask the Adulterous if she felt loved as the stones were bearing down on her.

Without trying to shuffle single verses, please name which of the 10 commandments reads (Love Thy Neighbor as thyself) Only 1-10 for context.

I think once Jesus or God defines something for us, its final. There is not Greater Authority than God.

I agree. That's why When He came in the flesh and right before He died for us, gave A NEW COMMANDMENT, I listen.

James 2:8 Indeed, if you keep the royal law prescribed in the Scripture, Love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well....12 Speak and act as those who will be judged by the law of freedom. ..........Mercy triumphs over judgment.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 John 4:21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

For this is the Love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ directly found in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:14

He said He would fulfill these and He did. The WORD of God does not return VOID. IT is FINISHED (I PAY DEBT IN FULL)

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here[b] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Scriptural context (IMO);
James 2:8 Indeed, if you keep the royal law prescribed in the Scripture, Love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well....12 Speak and act as those who will be judged by the law of freedom. ..........Mercy triumphs over judgment.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 John 4:21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

For this is the Love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

Guess we will have to agree to disagree, all gets sorted out soon enough.

We have the very Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ inside of us to sort these things out. If we forsake the teachings of humanity and simply use scripture as scriptures commentary, void of anything else, we don't have to wait until Judgment day, IMO

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Sibling in Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Fulfill does not mean we can ignore every teaching of Jesus when He taught us to keep the Ten Commandments, not to break the least of these as it affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19, which has not happened yet, but we have free will.

 

[Grip Docility]

Fulfill does not mean we can ignore every teaching of Jesus when He taught us to keep the Ten Commandments, not to break the least of these as it affects our status in heaven, which has not happened yet but suit yourself.

We CAN'T DO the Commandments without failing. This is why Jesus Died for us. "If Righteousness comes by the Law, then Christ died for nothing", "I Do not set aside the Grace of God", "Who crucified the charges against us in His Flesh", "You who have been baptized into Christ have Put on Christ".

HE Fulfilled them, because we couldn't. "ONLY GOD IS GOOD." "You who are Evil".

He Fulfilled MOSES. We are Commanded to Love and we Love out of gratitude that HE Fulfilled Moses. We Love others (Forgive Others) as He Loved Us (Forgave in totality). By Being IN Jesus, who Fulfilled the Law, His Fulfilment stands in place of our Dead works (Failures that occur daily). He fulfilled Moses, so we can FOCUS on His Highest Command. Love one another as if they were the very face of the ONE Who saved us from Moses.

I "Suit Myself" with the Wedding Garment. (Jesus)
I put on the Armor of God (Jesus)
I am perfect by JESUS PERFECTION, despite that I, myself am a sinful human being. It depends on HIM, not Me.

My part is to Turn to Jesus (This Fulfills the Law, INSTANTLY for me) <------ From Self (Moses, which used to condemn me).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We can’t save ourselves, so our righteousness does not come from the law, it comes from Christ. We keep the law though love and faith Rom 3:31 John 14:15 Rev 14:12 because He changes our heart and we want to obey Him, not because we have to because we love Him so much.

 

[Grip Docility]

We can’t save ourselves, so our righteousness does not come from the law, it comes from Christ.

Here, we agree.

We keep the law though love and faith Rom 3:31 John 14:15 Rev 14:12 because He changes our heart and we want to obey Him, not because we have to because we love Him so much.

He KEPT the 10 and all of Moses. He is the fulfillment of Moses.
He, alone is Good by Moses.

We are commanded to LOVE. No rails. Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ inside guiding.

Moses can’t touch a believer. A believer is under LOVE.

We are commanded to change the world through Love, His Love poured into and through us.

He served us. We are commanded to serve Mankind as if mankind were Him.

Good News

 

[HIM]

I thought that you and @HIM were saying that the "Law" was changed and addended. I.e. Parts were removed from it.

No you were shown that the Law pertaining to the priesthood and their duties changed in Heb 7-9.

We CAN'T DO the Commandments without failing. This is why Jesus Died for us.

He died that we can keep the Law (not sin) through Him and His Resurrection. Romans 6 and 8

 

[HIM]

My part is to Turn to Jesus (This Fulfills the Law, INSTANTLY for me) <------ From Self (Moses, which used to condemn me).

Little children be not deceived he that does righteous, is righteous, even as He is righteous. In this the children of God are manifested and the children of the devil. He that is born of God doth not commit sin, He can not sin because He is born of God.

 

[HIM]

He KEPT the 10 and all of Moses. He is the fulfillment of Moses.
He, alone is Good by Moses.

That isn't Jesus' testimony. He says, why callest thou me Good? There is none good but one, God. He the Father that dwells in me, He doeth the work.
And greater works shall we do because He went unto the Father. He has not left us comfortless. He has come unto us. He in us, us in Him that the world might believe. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. He doeth the work. Not I but Christ. For we are dead but live. Yet not us but Christ Jesus lives in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we live by the FAITH OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. For we who have been baptized into Christ and His death, have put on Christ and are risen with Him and walk in newness of Life. With His Word, His Law in our hearts through His Spirit. The old man is crucified with Him that the body of sin be destroyed. Hence forth we do not serve sin. Because all is new and of God. We have been begotten by the Word of Truth and have been set free from the Body of sin and death. And If the Son has set us free. Free we are indeed.

 

[Grip Docility]

Little children be not deceived he that does righteous, is righteous, even as He is righteous. In this the children of God are manifested and the children of the devil. He that is born of God doth not commit sin, He can not sin because He is born of God.

1 John 1:8

 

[Grip Docility]

That isn't Jesus' testimony. He says, why callest thou me Good? There is none good but one, God. He the Father that dwells in me, He doeth the work.
And greater works shall we do because He went unto the Father. He has not left us comfortless. He has come unto us. He in us, us in Him that the world might believe. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. He doeth the work. Not I but Christ. For we are dead but live. Yet not us but Christ Jesus lives in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we live by the FAITH OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. For we who have been baptized into Christ and His death, have put on Christ and are risen with Him and walk in newness of Life. With His Word, His Law in our hearts through His Spirit. The old man is crucified with Him that the body of sin be destroyed. Hence forth we do not serve sin. Because all is new and of God. We have been begotten by the Word of Truth and have been set free from the Body of sin and death. And If the Son has set us free. Free we are indeed.

Moses [The Old Covenant](Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:1,4) is crucified … I am Dead

Jesus (The Full Fulfillment of the Old Covenant) (The New Man) Lives in Me…

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

No wonder. You have a lot of misunderstandings. And the most important one is an issue within Heb 10:26 and the use of a bad translation. It isn't if we sin willfully but if we are sinning willfully. As a continual lifestyle.

I would argue that every sin is wilful. If with every temptation the Lord provides a way of escape (1 Cor 10:26), then every sin is the result of not taking the path God provided for escape.

And the "lifestyle of sin" doctrine holds no water. Sin comes from the heart (Matthew 15:18-19). If a person sins only once every three days (as a famous Texas preacher once said he achieved at one point in time), he demonstrates he has a sinful heart and is living a lifestyle of sin.

Our only relief from condemnation comes from the forgiveness that God offers us in Christ. After we receive it, there is no condemnation. And there is no Bible verse that indicates that a person whose sins are forgiven ever wants to go back under God's wrath again. The only ones who might choose to walk away from God's grace never knew it in the first place. And it is also quite possible that some of those who have "walked away" did not walk away from God's grace, but from the weight of the law that breaks the wheels off every cart loaded down with it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I would argue that every sin is wilful. If with every temptation the Lord provides a way of escape (1 Cor 10:26), then every sin is the result of not taking the path God provided for escape.

And the "lifestyle of sin" doctrine holds no water. Sin comes from the heart (Matthew 15:18-19). If a person sins only once every three days (as a famous Texas preacher once said he achieved at one point in time), he demonstrates he has a sinful heart and is living a lifestyle of sin.

Our only relief from condemnation comes from the forgiveness that God offers us in Christ. After we receive it, there is no condemnation.

Can you please clarify your position- are you saying we only pray for repentance once and once Christ forgives us that includes all future sins- so we can continue in that path of sin and never have to worry about His Judgement?

Christ in His own Words- said when He healed to go and sin no more. Would Christ give a command to do this if it were not possible?

Pro 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

And there is no Bible verse that indicates that a person whose sins are forgiven ever wants to go back under God's wrath again.

So once Christ forgives sins, one never sins again? So the majority of said Christians are not sinning, is this your position, I just want to understand.

The only ones who might choose to walk away from God's grace never knew it in the first place.

We all have sinned and fall short which is why we are under grace, but does grace mean we can sin?

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

And it is also quite possible that some of those who have "walked away" did not walk away from God's grace, but from the weight of the law that breaks the wheels off every cart loaded down with it.

And yet we are told God's law is not meant to be burdensome....

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Obeying God the way He asks is not meant to be burdensome, but meant to bless and reconcile

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

It shows we had a conversion in Christ. When we meet Christ we need to change, sadly, people think we can stay the way we are and still be in Christ, but that's one just fooling themselves. If one is in Christ, sin would hurt them, it would be painful because of what it did and does to Christ. He came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in sin, we must have a conversion, which means our lives and lifestyle are completely changed.