I'm sorry, but I think your understanding of sin is off or your wording is.
There is no one Jesus "can't" save, no sin so great His blood can't cover.
Good morning Hazelponi,
I don't like having this conversation, because it is a stronghold. It can bring the worst out in discussion. But, I have to stand behind my words and I imagine that I'm going to have to further explain my statement, which really was best being spiritually discerned. Spelling this out is not something that I enjoy.
When Jesus said that He came to show Mercy to Sinners by saying I have came to save sinners, not the righteous, how do you interpret that statement?
When Jesus said that He came for the "Sick", not the "Well", how do you interpret that statement?
Jesus can help ANY and EVERY manner of sinner, except for the Hypocrite at heart. Jesus cannot help a proud and unrepentant person. If the proud and unrepentant person is an unbeliever, they have more hope than a Proud and unrepentant believer. Hazelponi, this is condemnation scripture. This entire OP is mistranslating a very specific passage of Hebrews 10. The entire book of Hebrews is about turning from obedience to the ENTIRE LAW of Moses (SELF) and turning to (Jesus Christ) (Acknowledging the need for HIS Righteousness in place of our utter Trash Dead Works of the Flesh) Jesus is the Heavenly Sanctuary, the High Priest, the Sabbath, the FULL ATONEMENT etc. etc. etc.
I really hope you understand what I am writing, because if I have to spell it out, it Spiritually drains me. This is a topic that I am only compelled to discuss, because time and time again, here and many other places, I run into Christians that desire to "Give up their faith", because of this very "Sinless Doctrine" teaching. I really hope you understand what I am saying, because I do need to ensure it is spelled out, because I don't want those on milk falling into this pitfall.
That's first. If GOD wants to save the most evil person on the planet and turn them into a good person he could do so before your next breath.
He could. What if this evil person is a hard hearted person that believes with all of their heart that they are Self Righteous in their flesh? What if this person is identical to the Pharisee in the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector?
Could you please follow up from that teaching of Jesus in response?
Isaiah speaks to us of a God who holds out His Hand all day long to an obstinate people (Isaiah 65:2)
I agree with you more than you know. I am speaking of Pride, Self Righteousness, Refusal to admit that one is sinful, Oppressing others from the mindset of sinless perfection, the same ilk that condemned Jesus Christ. Please tell me that your ears are perking up, now. Or not.
This teaching leads down a very dangerous path. It is not interpreting scripture correctly. The people on this thread aren't bad, none of us, in this sense that I am speaking of. However, this doctrine, when taught as it is being taught can lead to Pride that exalts a person, in place of Jesus. I really hope you understand what I am scripturally anchoring to. Korah's rebellion is a solid hint.
But eventually there's an end to God's patience, eventually the Hand of Entreaty is withdrawn. Perhaps at times this Hand might simply be out of view, but sometimes it's just gone and what replaces it is righteous judgement.
This is what I desire for NOONE! Jesus, again, can save ALL manners of Sinners. There is a reason that the leavening of the Pharisees is likened unto gangrene in other passages of scripture. It results in losses of members of a Body. I'm not saying what I suspect you believe I am saying. I have written prolifically on this OP, because it is underlining one of the most Faith killing doctrines that I have had to hold crying Christians in my arms over, because they "Thought" they were lost.
I know you didn't read a fraction of my posts here and that is okay, but you have genuinely assumed far too much. This is a simple matter being corrupted by teachings of "man".
We talk about this in the context of the world all the time, but rarely talk about it in the context of the individual - but it's just as true and just as relevant to the individual.
The world is unmerciful. The world judges by the flesh. God judges the heart. I am really sincerely committed to this concept. I suspect that you read a fraction of what I have written and made an under informed guess as to where I was coming from.
While Jesus came the first time to die on the cross for the salvation of sin, that cross, that resurrection, is also the judgement of the world.
This is an eschatology discussion. Can we please not complicate this?
The double edged sword is that salvation is as much judgement as it is salvation - because it's based on our response.
EXACTLY! We repent from self to Jesus. That is not what this OP is saying. I took time to write here because I have first hand seen Christians give up the faith, because of this very teaching that is in this OP.
Did we choose Him over the world?
If we desire Joy and Peace, yes. But, what do you mean, specifically by this statement? It could fall many directions, spiritually speaking.
Every Christian says yes. Period.
I would have to disagree, here. The system of the world is carnal. Exchange for everything. Can we afford to pay for salvation with our carnal currency? Some Christians do not understand what this means.
But Scripture tells us that our actions often belie our words.
If we go on "willfully" sinning we do it with an eager enthusiasm, not begrudgingly or with guilt, but happily, joyful.
Hazelponi, I will just ask you outright. Which "Law" do you believe that Christians are under? Do you say the Royal Law (Love), or the Law of Moses (Stone), or are you one that says (Both)?
Very unlike like Paul's words:
"For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." Romans 7:15
But willfully sinning.
I imagine I will have to interject a very specific thing I've written earlier. Your answers will be appreciated.
Have you met a Christian that "sins on accident"?
Have you met a Christian that is "without sin"?
Have you met a passage in scripture that says "Promising God to do better next time will Save you"?
If Christians, who do, all of them, willfully sin in different ways, employ dishonesty towards others to cover this fact up or use strange confusing verbiage to express this concept, what is the validity of mishandling Hebrews 10 as what it is intended to be and what is the damage that mishandling Hebrews 10 does to the Body and Unbelievers?
If Christians employ the "Sin of Commission (Sin that we do) versus the Sin of Omission (Sin that we want to do but don't do)" argument, doesn't Jesus Decimate that argument when He binds Lusting in one's heart as transgression equal to committing adultery and Hate in one's heart as physical Murder?
If we who sin are the reason that Jesus died for humanity, while we were yet sinners, so He Who knew no sin could become all sin for us, so that us who sin could be declared sinless by His righteousness and not ours,
how is it "Christian" to place the weight of the Law (Of Moses) back on a "Christians" shoulders, again?
The new Christian is likened unto a baby. Jesus says that it is better that we have a millstone tied around a persons neck (Reference to the Stone Law) and they be cast to the bottom of the sea, than to offend one of those little ones.
Satan tries to get Jesus (The Living Bread) to turn Stone (The Stone Law) into Bread (Provision unto mankind).
Jesus asks; Which of you, being a loving parent would give your child a SNAKE if they ask for BREAD.
Hebrews 2:14 and
1 Corinthians 15:55,
56 can keep going unnoticed, but Jesus didn't leave them unnoticed.
I will conclude my emotional appeal with one closing statement;
God, the Creator, Infinite God died and bled for humanity. I believe this. I believe that He rose on the Third Day. This means, by scripture that I am SAVED. Now, this work of GOD, that saves me, can I, a creation improve on this work? Can I become more saved by my mortal efforts than God has saved me? This said, should I spend each day trying to ensure that I am MORE SAVED, or should I now concern myself with the UNSAVED? What was Jesus concerned about?
We can examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. We won't be without sin, but our track will be one that is God facing, beginning to love the things He loves and hating the things He hates - even if we can't always do the things we want.
This is not what the OP is teaching, Hazelponi. The OP believes we are under Moses (The 10).
The law didn't die, the law still exists but now instead of tablets of stone they are written on the hearts of His Children.
I really hope you understand James Chapter 2. I will further this discussion if needed.
The 10 are etched on Tablets of Stone. What does Galatians 4 say to do with what was born on Sinai? I ask this, because we are now under a NEW COMMAND that is beyond CARNAL (Fleshly) judgment. James chapter 2 and 1 Corinthians 13 are the best places to fully gather what I am speaking of.
The Royal Law and Stone Points of Law are incompatible, per James chapter 2.
And we will love His Law, even though we are still imperfect.
I Love His Law of Love, but I stay away from Moses. I have been commanded by Jesus, through Paul to do this. I know that the Law of Stone is Good, but I also know Who, alone is GOOD by Moses. I dare not apply it to myself, nor my fellow human being. I am under the Royal Law, the "New Commandment", and in doing so, the full Righteousness of Jesus is my covering atonement. I don't tamper with this. The author of Hebrews warns us not to tamper with this.
Yes, on the day of Judgement the only thing, absolutely the only thing saving us is Him and the blood He shed covering us, shielding us from His righteous Judgement and not one thing we do can add anything to our salvation.
We agree here, more than you know. I suspect that you are only reading a fraction of what I am writing, because this is what I am defending.
But that doesn't mean a completely unchanged, willfully sinning life is in Christ - Christ Himself works in us to change us through His Holy Spirit.
This is none of our business. We trust the Holy Spirit and do not judge the Flesh, like our King of king's taught us. We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. What you are saying about "Willfully Sinning", may or may not be what the OP is saying. I'm not sure. There's some middle of the line discussion in your OP.
Can Jesus save a Sinner?
Can Jesus save an Unrepentant Human Being that believes that they are Self Righteous and teaches others to be so, as well?
Slowly, slowly day by day, He is making us into a glorious thing, not because we have glory of our own, (though everything God creates is beautiful) but because we reflect His Glory.
We get the full measure when we give up the ghost to Glory. This said. This is none of our business. It is the Potter's work. Not ours.
If we ever worry we have only to remember that God's promises are true, and the work He begins He will bring to completion so when all is said and done it is His blood alone,
With you here.
but we don't skip the hard work ... We have our own crosses to bear - and sometimes that is just remembering to always go back to Him for our help.
Please define this very clearly so that I can evaluate this statement more closely. It is true, but, this could mean different things to different people.
Which is hard sometimes... We have our flaws. Temporary failures are not what's meant by willful sinning here.
What is meant by the use of Hebrews 10, implied by the OP title and previous discussion I have had with the OP author on other threads is not, what I believe that you think it means.
This is tantamount to sinless doctrine. Hebrews 10 states that depending on our flesh will lead to damnation, yet fully relying on Jesus will lead to Glory. Turning back from Jesus is the Willful sin, in context that Hebrews is discussing. I have exegeted Hebrews multiple times and from chapter 1 to chapter 13 it states to Choose Jesus, the fulfillment of Moses, do not turn back to Moses.
I don't know if you can discern this, but the OP verbiage doesn't understand what Moses means. I wouldn't be dug in, discussing this here, if it wasn't an important matter.
Thanks for sharing.
