GUILTY

[BPPLEE]

That's how statistics work. Some are going to be above average, some below. You apparently, have below average wage growth. Talk to your boss about that. They set your wages, not the government. The same is true with prices. Not all prices are up the same. On average the economy is doing well. On average, workers are getting pay increases that track or slightly exceed price growth.

I’m at the top of my pay scale for my profession, I’m actually above it. I am due to get a significant wage increase because I have been promoted. It has nothing to do with the economy

 

[BPPLEE]

That's how statistics work. Some are going to be above average, some below. You apparently, have below average wage growth. Talk to your boss about that. They set your wages, not the government. The same is true with prices. Not all prices are up the same. On average the economy is doing well. On average, workers are getting pay increases that track or slightly exceed price growth.

This is not just me, the majority of the people in the US feel this way if you saw the survey I posted earlier. There’s something wrong when you have to convince people that they are better off.

 

[stevevw]

That's true. He has been extended considerable leniency because of his position.

I think its the other way around. The law has not been applied in the same way it would have for another person. The question needs to be asked 'would the democrates apply the same level of scrutiny and vigelence to one of their own'. The answer is clearly a big No.

"Left leaning" apparently means anyone who is not a Christian MAGA Republican. Which means your typical "average person" is "Left leaning."

That seems stereotyping rather than describing your "average person". I don't think all those who support Trump fall into the "Christian MAGA Republican". Many are swing voters without much alligence to either party and just want whats best for themseves and the country. Others dislike Trump less than Biden and still others are not Christians at all and even some from the Left are warming to Trump so it seems.

But what you are doing is exactly 'identity politics'. Reducing everyone down to stereotypical groups, identities rather than looking at the demographics and reality of the situation.

 

[stevevw]

And then you gallop along and claim the whole thing is some kind of Leftist plot--a fantasy for which you offer no evidence whatever.

Fundementally it is and I have provided evidence. Both sides do it and this has been the nature of politics from around the 70's and 80's. Most people don't realise this. But if you study the history the evidence is there. Did you even read those links.

This is typical of ideologues. They dismiss evidence out of hand and then come back and strawman the arguement and use other fallcies to divert from the content and evidence. Not one word about the content. You complain that I don't back up what I say and then ignore that evidence and make misrepresentations.

And I have a government map of the Mississippi which proves it.

My point for your false analogy earlier and your reply is typical of what I am pointing out about how people are replacing the truth and facts with ideology. In your case the ideology is Tom Sawyer. You use a real river (the facts) to substanciate a myth, unreality and then keep referring to the truth of the map as evidence for the myth thus conflating the two hoping no one notices.

 

[stevevw]

Ok so we have the Left continually claiming Biden was coherent, in better health mentally than ever and then attack anyone who mentioned Bidens mental health. They then went on to try and make out it was Trump who was mentally gone and frail.

Trump slips on a step once and we see the onslaught of the Left attacking him as being 'too unstable to be a candidate'. We see clear evidence of Bidens incapacity and the Left turn and blind eye and Gaslight everyone.

Then we see them in panic mode after BIdens dismall debate display and acting like this is something new and now saying he is too unfit for re-election.

But what does this reveal about the Left. Bidens minders knew all aloing Biden wasn't fit but they covered this up and proceeded to gaslight the electorate. If Biden is unfit then what is he doing running the most powerful nation in the world.

It poses more questions. To what extent have Bidens minders been orchestrating things behind the scenes to continue this charade. Has Biden been souped up on drugs while running the country.

It shows the Left took everyone for fools and they lied continually to the electorate about Bidens health while attacking Trump for the same thing. That spells hyocrite and that is what people most dislike.

 

[BCP1928]

I think its the other way around. The law has not been applied in the same way it would have for another person. The question needs to be asked 'would the democrates apply the same level of scrutiny and vigelence to one of their own. The answer is clearly a big No.

That seems stereotyping rather than describing your "average person". I don't think all those who support Trump fall into the Christian MAGA Republican. Many are swing voters with much alligence to either party and just want whats best for themseves and the country. Others dislike Trump less than Biden and still others are not Christians at all and even some from the Left are warming to Trump so it seems.

But what you are doing is exactly identity politics. Reducing everyone down to stereotypical groups, identities rather than looking at the demographics and reality of the situation.

Like "leftist"

 

[Hans Blaster]

“You idiot, wage growth has outpaced inflation growth, you’re doing better. Never mind that you can’t afford anything. Never mind that everyone you know tells you the same thing. Can’t you see how much better off you are? Don’t you understand basic economics? Never mind that you have no money in your checking account, I’m telling you, you’re doing better and so are your friends “

I didn't call you an idiot. I didn't say you were personally doing better.

 

[christian-surfer]

I don’t believe that the democrat party even makes the economy an issue anymore in a way that makes sense. Someone tried to convince me otherwise but it didn’t seem convincing one bit. It’s one of the reasons I left the democrat party. I suppose they will claim that green jobs is going to do it, I don’t really see that either. This was an NPR article below. Trump supporters are largely working class people. They called Clinton a New Democrat because he supported Republican agendas such as NAFTA and banking deregulation that led to the credit default swaps and exotic financial instruments which I can’t accept as something great. Th democrats used to be against NAFTA. The party has clearly changed and that is one indication.

============

How Democrats can win back the working class

Democrats are losing working-class voters at an alarming rate, despite the popularity of President Biden’s policies. A roundtable of working-class voters share what Democrats can do to win them back.

www.wbur.org

Democrats are losing working-class voters at an alarming rate, despite the popularity of President Biden’s policies.

A roundtable of working-class voters share what Democrats can do to win them back.

Today, On Point: How Democrats can win back the working class.

 

[BPPLEE]

I didn't call you an idiot. I didn't say you were personally doing better.

Not you, not directly

 

[Bradskii]

I don’t know whose wages have but mine and many others have not.

Again, your personal position has nothing to do with it. Nobody is going to call you to see how the country's economy is doing.

And it depends when you are measuring the growth from as far as how much prices have actually increased.

You measure on a weekly, monthly or yearly basis. Over the last few years as a whole if you like. But you've been given the rate of inflation and the rate of wage increase. The difference will be either an increase or a decrease in cost of living. And it's been an increase. It's perverse to deny it. I mean, there's even people in this forum who are saying that the cost of living has tripled over the last couple of years.

What fantasy land are they living in? Well, it's one spun by Trump among others. It seems to be taken as gospel by so many when all it takes is a few keyboard clicks to show the lie. So whose economy is Trump going to fix? Hey, it must be yours...

 

[Bradskii]

I’m at the top of my pay scale for my profession, I’m actually above it. I am due to get a significant wage increase because I have been promoted.

So tell us what percentage increase you'll get.

It has nothing to do with the economy

Wages and pay increases don't have anything to do with the economy? Well, your specific wage increase doesn't. But the average increase across the board does.

 

[christian-surfer]

This fits with my impressions of the democrat party .. Wall street and the neocons supported Clinton. I don't see any changes in that

Clinton’s 2016 bid draws more Wall Street fundraisers than Obama in 2012

The finance sector has helped collect at least $20 million for Clinton's campaign and the Democratic Party.

www.usatoday.com

Hillary’s Neoconservatives

Her embrace of hawks is more than an electoral strategy.

www.theamericanconservative.com

 

[BPPLEE]

Again, your personal position has nothing to do with it. Nobody is going to call you to see how the country's economy is doing.

You measure on a weekly, monthly or yearly basis. Over the last few years as a whole if you like. But you've been given the rate of inflation and the rate of wage increase. The difference will be either an increase or a decrease in cost of living. And it's been an increase. It's perverse to deny it. I mean, there's even people in this forum who are saying that the cost of living has tripled over the last couple of years.

What fantasy land are they living in? Well, it's one spun by Trump among others. It seems to be taken as gospel by so many when all it takes is a few keyboard clicks to show the lie. So whose economy is Trump going to fix? Hey, it must be yours...

It’s what they are experiencing. There’s something wrong when you have to try to convince people that they are doing better.
Most people are not buying it.

 

[Bradskii]

It’s what they are experiencing. There’s something wrong when you have to try to convince people that they are doing better.
Most people are not buying it.

It seems that most people just accept what they are told without checking. It's trite to say 'Hey, I'm worse off, therefore the economy is tanking.'

It's exactly like saying that you always drive after a few beers and haven't had an accident, so therefore there's no problem in drink driving. And 'my grandad smoked from the age of 12 and he lived to be 98'. So therefore smoking is harmless. Now we have 'My personal income hasn't risen faster than inflation therefore the economy is in the toilet.'

So what was your personal percentage raise?

 

[BPPLEE]

It seems that most people just accept what they are told without checking. It's trite to say 'Hey, I'm worse off, therefore the economy is tanking.'

It's exactly like saying that you always drive after a few beers and haven't had an accident, so therefore there's no problem in drink driving. And 'my grandad smoked from the age of 12 and he lived to be 98'. So therefore smoking is harmless. Now we have 'My personal income hasn't risen faster than inflation therefore the economy is in the toilet.'

So what was your personal percentage raise?

I haven’t gotten it yet.
Most people feel that their personal income hasn’t risen faster than inflation.
Personal experience is more relevant to them than people spouting statistics and telling them they are doing better

 

[Servus]

I haven’t gotten it yet.
Most people feel that their personal income hasn’t risen faster than inflation.
Personal experience is more relevant to them than people spouting statistics and telling them they are doing better

Probably most people are more likely to vote based on what they're experiencing rather than what someone's statistics claim. Others believe whatever they're told.

 

[BPPLEE]

Probably most people are more likely to vote based on what they're experiencing rather than what someone's statistics claim. Others believe whatever they're told.

“Can’t you people see? We’re telling you that you’re better off, we’re giving you the statistics what are you complaining about?”
Seems to be the Left’s position

 

[Servus]

“Can’t you people see? We’re telling you that you’re better off, we’re giving you the statistics what are you complaining about?”
Seems to be the Left’s position

They've said what we're experiencing is irrelevant. If the chart says the sky is maroon, it's not blue, it is maroon. I'm not sure what that reminds me of more, 1984 or Brave New Word.

 

[christian-surfer]

“Can’t you people see? We’re telling you that you’re better off, we’re giving you the statistics what are you complaining about?”
Seems to be the Left’s position

Technocracy is rule by experts. It's not democracy .. you have to listen to what the experts say (corporate or government affiliated experts). Anything else is a danger to democracy they will tell you and dangerous disinformation that the government needs to censor or control. The idea here seems to be that everything was fine but Trump told me that the economy was in trouble so then I believed it. I can't make a determination on my own based on the rising cost of living, the cost of a vehicle, the cost of a house, cost of electricity, if it's harder to find a job or a good job, and numerous other impressions based on what I see and other people in similar situations. So they will keep printing money in order to send billions overseas.

 

[BPPLEE]

They've said what we're experiencing is irrelevant. If the chart says the sky is maroon, it's not blue, it is maroon. I'm not sure what that reminds me of more, 1984 or Brave New Word.

The same people told us that Biden was sharp, on the top of his game and that those videos of him making gaffes and being confused were selectively edited deep fake videos