GUILTY

[BPPLEE]

But it's been pointed out what the situation is with the economy. It's doing better than almost every other country on the planet. So if that's the economy you get with Biden in charge, how would Trump improve that? You've been asked and you have no idea - we'll just wait to see what he does...

And please, gimme a break on him spending time fighting lawsuits. You're not anywhere naive enough to think it all disapears if he wins in November.

Gimme a break telling me how great the economy is. I live here It’s costing me more and more just to sustain my current condition. I’m losing ground and everyone here will you the same thing

 

[BPPLEE]

You can't ignore what he says. It's what you must base your vote on. The man's 'policies', and I make no excuse for the scare quotes, are monstrously idiotic. What on earth have you heard him say that makes some sense to you?

We defeated Medicare makes more sense, right?

 

[ozso]

Gimme a break telling me how great the economy is. I live here It’s costing me more and more just to sustain my current condition. I’m losing ground and everyone here will you the same thing

That can't be true because the reports say otherwise.

 

[Bradskii]

Gimme a break telling me how great the economy is. I live here It’s costing me more and more just to sustain my current condition. I’m losing ground and everyone here will you the same thing

My apologies. I didn't know anecdotal evidence held sway.

 

[BPPLEE]

No, I don't. I would demand decent wages for them. But nobody in your part of the world seems interested. So why don't you write your congressman or woman and say that you're quite prepared to pay more at the supermarket and pay that living wage. As opposed to putting them all in a cattle truck and dumping them all in Mexico. And sure, the Mexicans will just accede to that just as they did when they found out that they had to pay for a wall.

Honestly, has anyone who is going to tick the box next to Trump's name come November actually thought any of this through? It's a serious question. You're a bright guy but you don't seem to have made any attempt to think what it all means when the rubber hits the road.

Where are all the asylum seekers working? It’s them that have flooded the border the last 3 years, slightly different than illegal immigrants

 

[Bradskii]

We defeated Medicare makes more sense, right?

It makes no sense. In the sense that Biden said it and in the sense that it has nothing to do with Trumps policies!

The spotlight is now on Trump. And what he says he will do to improve an economy that is already humming along. Because you have no idea, you just revert to an attack on Biden. I don't know if you noticed, but that was all that Trump did all through that 'debate'. Zero policy announcements and a complete and utter refusal to answer any questions that were put to him. Because, and maybe this will dawn on you at some point, he doesn't have any answers.

 

[Vylo]

Trump is now a known quantity. He may be a bad candidate but he's an amazing president. Look what he did, even under constant attack for nonsense like "Russiagate".

FWIW, I cringe every time I hear him speak. So I apply the same rule to him as I do all politicians. I ignore what he says and watch what he does.

He was an awful president. He got hundreds of thousands of Americans killed, destroyed the US reputation abroad, lead an insurrection, the list goes on. He's the worst president we have had in over 100 years. The only ones beating him are the ones leading into the civil war.

 

[Bradskii]

Where are all the asylum seekers working? It’s them that have flooded the border the last 3 years, slightly different than illegal immigrants

Hey, it was you that brought up this fact free claim about immigrants and how they are taking US jobs. I thought you might have some idea yourself. Feel free to nominate which asylum seekers and what proportion of illegal immigrants are doing exactly what and how to the US economy and what Trump is going to do to improve things.

And that last clause is the main point. Tell us what he's going to do. Apart from you waiting to see, it might be a good idea to see in advance if he has some policies that will actually improve that economy.

Want to take a swing at it?

 

[BPPLEE]

It makes no sense. In the sense that Biden said it and in the sense that it has nothing to do with Trumps policies!

The spotlight is now on Trump. And what he says he will do to improve an economy that is already humming along. Because you have no idea, you just revert to an attack on Biden. I don't know if you noticed, but that was all that Trump did all through that 'debate'. Zero policy announcements and a complete and utter refusal to answer any questions that were put to him. Because, and maybe this will dawn on you at some point, he doesn't have any answers.

Oh I agree he didn’t answer anything and he gave no specifics. Everything was the greatest ever, the best ever, the lowest taxes ever, no substance.
But again Biden is that bad.
And you can quote all the figures you want about the economy but the reality is that costs have outpaced wages and we’re all feeling it

 

[BPPLEE]

Hey, it was you that brought up this fact free claim about immigrants and how they are taking US jobs. I thought you might have some idea yourself. Feel free to nominate which asylum seekers and what proportion of illegal immigrants are doing exactly what and how to the US economy and what Trump is going to do to improve things.

And that last clause is the main point. Tell us what he's going to do. Apart from you waiting to see, it might be a good idea to see in advance if he has some policies that will actually improve that economy.

Want to take a swing at it?

You didn’t read my posts. I never said illegal immigrants took any jobs. I said most of the new jobs went to foreign born workers. Like tech jobs. These people are here legally. You jumped and ran with the illegal immigrants claim and I have clarified twice that it’s not what I said

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf

 

[Bradskii]

Oh I agree he didn’t answer anything and he gave no specifics. Everything was the greatest ever, the best ever, the lowest taxes ever, no substance.
But again Biden is that bad.

Which was all Trump could say as well. Maybe it's just me, maybe you don't think the same way, but in a Presidential debate I expected first a debate (kinda crazy I know) and some policies from each of those involved as to how they would improve the lives of those watching. Now I got that from Biden. In a manner which gave a lot of people concern about him being the guy in charge for the next 4 years. But I got nothing from Trump. A big fat zero. Nada. Rien. Zilch.

And you can quote all the figures you want about the economy but the reality is that costs have outpaced wages and we’re all feeling it

Well, and again this may be me, but asking people how they feel is important when it comes to personal relationships but when it comes to the economy, it ain't worth squat. From here: Inflation vs. wages: How rising prices stack up against growing pay

'Since February 2020, the Consumer Price Index has climbed a cumulative 20.8%, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Over that same period, average hourly earnings rose 22.3%.'

And from here: Surprise: Wage growth has actually outpaced the crushing inflation over the past 2.5 years, according to the JEC Democrats

'JEC’s thesis is backed up by other economic data, which also shows that wage growth is now outpacing inflation growth. Per the U.S. Census Bureau, wages and salaries increased by 4.6% for the 12-month period ending in September 2023 and by 5.1% for the 12-month period ending in September 2022. Meanwhile, the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers, or CPI-U, increased 3.2% from July 2022 to July 2023.

“Even though people might not realize it, their wages likely are increasing faster than prices are rising, at least at the moment,” says Jacob Channel, senior economist at LendingTree.'

So yeah, I can post all the figures want. Because it reflects the reality. You aren't ahead of the curve? Tough luck. But nobody bases economic policy based on your personal income. Or on what people 'feel'. At least not in the real world.

 

[Bradskii]

You didn’t read my posts. I never said illegal immigrants took any jobs. I said most of the new jobs went to foreign born workers.

I asked for evidence. You have none. It's a bit late in the piece to complain about green card holders taking tech jobs when the whole discussion has been about what you think Trump is going to do improve an already excellent situation. See above for some facts and figures.

 

[FenderTL5]

..you can quote all the figures you want about the economy but the reality is that costs have outpaced wages and we’re all feeling it

Serious question; if this is a concern for you and others, why in the name of anything good and right would you support neoliberalism?

This, along with healthcare and the fact that I'm getting older are precisely the reason(s) I've been opposing the trickle-down, horse and sparrow, supply-side, Reagonomics of neoliberalism.

 

[BPPLEE]

Which was all Trump could say as well. Maybe it's just me, maybe you don't think the same way, but in a Presidential debate I expected first a debate (kinda crazy I know) and some policies from each of those involved as to how they would improve the lives of those watching. Now I got that from Biden. In a manner which gave a lot of people concern about him being the guy in charge for the next 4 years. But I got nothing from Trump. A big fat zero. Nada. Rien. Zilch.

Well, and again this may be me, but asking people how they feel is important when it comes to personal relationships but when it comes to the economy, it ain't worth squat. From here: Inflation vs. wages: How rising prices stack up against growing pay

'Since February 2020, the Consumer Price Index has climbed a cumulative 20.8%, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Over that same period, average hourly earnings rose 22.3%.'

And from here: Surprise: Wage growth has actually outpaced the crushing inflation over the past 2.5 years, according to the JEC Democrats

'JEC’s thesis is backed up by other economic data, which also shows that wage growth is now outpacing inflation growth. Per the U.S. Census Bureau, wages and salaries increased by 4.6% for the 12-month period ending in September 2023 and by 5.1% for the 12-month period ending in September 2022. Meanwhile, the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers, or CPI-U, increased 3.2% from July 2022 to July 2023.

“Even though people might not realize it, their wages likely are increasing faster than prices are rising, at least at the moment,” says Jacob Channel, senior economist at LendingTree.'

So yeah, I can post all the figures want. Because it reflects the reality. You aren't ahead of the curve? Tough luck. But nobody bases economic policy based on your personal income. Or on what people 'feel'. At least not in the real world.

Maybe you don’t understand. We don’t believe these statistics because we see the reality of what our paychecks are buying and what we are no longer able to afford.
Giving me these statistics is the equivalent of urinating on my head and telling me that it’s raining. Look at the statement “Wage growth is outpacing inflation GROWTH.”
Yes, the growth has slowed, but the prices never went down.
Inflation can go to zero and we are still paying more for everything than we were two years ago. Do you understand?
So the statistics are meaningless. We can be paying twice as much for everything and inflation can be 1%

 

[Bradskii]

Inflation can go to zero and we are still paying more for everything than we were two years ago.

Yeah, but wages have increased at a greater rate than inflation. If inflation is at 5% but wages have increased by 6% then you are ahead of the game. Yes, you are paying more, but you have more with which to pay.

This is economics 101. If you don't understand the absolute basics then this is somewhat of a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Maybe you don’t understand. We don’t believe these statistics because we see the reality of what our paychecks are buying and what we are no longer able to afford.
Giving me these statistics is the equivalent of urinating on my head and telling me that it’s raining. Look at the statement “Wage growth is outpacing inflation GROWTH.”
Yes, the growth has slowed, but the prices never went down.

Prices don't go down. That is called "deflation" and economists find it to be a bad thing found only in economies that are failing. The preference is slow inflation of 1-3% increase in prices per year.

When prices go up slower than wages it is easier to pay for things than when prices go up slower than wages.

All of these are aggregate measures, and individual prices can move up or down and individual people can have their personal wages change at a different rate than the average.

Inflation can go to zero and we are still paying more for everything than we were two years ago. Do you understand?

Yes, do you?

So the statistics are meaningless. We can be paying twice as much for everything and inflation can be 1%

Statistics aren't meaningless, but you do need to understand what they mean.

 

[BPPLEE]

Yeah, but wages have increased at a greater rate than inflation. If inflation is at 5% but wages have increased by 6% then you are ahead of the game. Yes, you are paying more, but you have more with which to pay.

This is economics 101. If you don't understand the absolute basics then this is somewhat of a waste of bandwidth.

And you are still missing the basic premise. The GROWTH has slowed down. The prices are still up and my wages have not increased.
I don’t know whose wages have but mine and many others have not.
And it depends when you are measuring the growth from as far as how much prices have actually increased. You can play these games with statistics and make it look like Jimmy Carter had the best economy of the 20th century.
If you don’t understand then this is a waste of bandwidth

 

[BPPLEE]

Prices don't go down. That is called "deflation" and economists find it to be a bad thing found only in economies that are failing. The preference is slow inflation of 1-3% increase in prices per year.

When prices go up slower than wages it is easier to pay for things than when prices go up slower than wages.

All of these are aggregate measures, and individual prices can move up or down and individual people can have their personal wages change at a different rate than the average.

Yes, do you?

Statistics aren't meaningless, but you do need to understand what they mean.

My wages and many other people’s have not increased. Maybe wages for part time workers increased or for some workers that has created a statistical anomaly but most of us have not seen a wage increase

 

[Hans Blaster]

My wages and many other people’s have not increased. Maybe wages for part time workers increased or for some workers that has created a statistical anomaly but most of us have not seen a wage increase

That's how statistics work. Some are going to be above average, some below. You apparently, have below average wage growth. Talk to your boss about that. They set your wages, not the government. The same is true with prices. Not all prices are up the same. On average the economy is doing well. On average, workers are getting pay increases that track or slightly exceed price growth.

 

[BPPLEE]

That's how statistics work. Some are going to be above average, some below. You apparently, have below average wage growth. Talk to your boss about that. They set your wages, not the government. The same is true with prices. Not all prices are up the same. On average the economy is doing well. On average, workers are getting pay increases that track or slightly exceed price growth.

“You idiot, wage growth has outpaced inflation growth, you’re doing better. Never mind that you can’t afford anything. Never mind that everyone you know tells you the same thing. Can’t you see how much better off you are? Don’t you understand basic economics? Never mind that you have no money in your checking account, I’m telling you, you’re doing better and so are your friends “