Why does a good God allow pain and suffering to exist in this world?

[Felix.manuel]

Hello, I have known these forums for a few years, but I haven't accessed them for a long time and I noticed that things have changed around here.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this topic. If it's not, I apologize and ask the moderators to move it to the appropriate forum if this is not the right place for this kind of topic. I apologize in advance if I break any forum rules. And I also apologize for the long post below.

I consider myself a pantheist and a freethinker, but I really want to regain my former faith in Christianity. Yes, I was raised in a Christian family, my whole family is Christian, and I used to be a Christian as well. I started losing faith in the Christian God after I lost my friend to cancer several years ago. The ancient philosophical and theological problem of evil is perhaps one of the biggest and main challenges preventing me from returning to Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was taught in church that God is All-Powerful, All-Loving, Perfect, a God who hears our prayers and cares for us, an Omnipotent God. If this God really cares about us, why did He allow my friend to lose the battle against liver cancer? This disease made him wither and suffer in such a tragic and inhumane way, even after almost two years of treatments and many prayers, but none of that helped, he lost the battle and passed away. I considered him like a brother. This made me question the goodness of the Christian God and my faith.

There was a moment when I came across Epicurus' trilemma, which presents the following dilemma attributed to this philosopher, saying:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then He is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then He is not all-good.

If God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This was also one of the reasons that made me question the goodness of the Christian God. And several other questions related to evil and suffering arose, such as these:

Why does God allow diseases like Tay-Sachs, which affect the neurons of some children, causing them to live short lives and experience horrible suffering? Why allow hepatic carcinoma that killed my friend, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, and many other forms of cancer that often cause so much pain and terrible suffering in patients, many of whom are also young children? Why does leprosy exist, which, if untreated, rots the flesh and causes fingers to fall off? Why do such horrible congenital defects exist, such as epidermodysplasia verruciformis, cyclopia, ethmocephaly, craniopagus parasiticus, epidermolysis bullosa, anencephaly, progeria, spina bifida (and many other congenital diseases listed here https://medlineplus.gov/geneticsbirthdefects.html)? If you are sensitive to strong images, do not search for them on Google. The number of genetic and congenital errors that can occur is almost infinite. Why do mental and behavioral disorders exist, causing such horrible suffering that many people wish they had never been born, preferring to take their own lives, some even losing their sanity and discernment? Moreover, there are diseases like Alzheimer's, sickle cell anemia, autism, color blindness, diabetes, and countless other diseases that kill millions and millions of people, including babies and young children. Why does God allow natural disasters that have killed many people like these here ? Why do we have parasitic infections like malaria, dengue, Chagas disease, tetanus, lice, ticks, Loa loa, brain-eating amoebas, and many others? Why create a world with predation where animals cruelly kill each other to survive and where animals also suffer pain and agony? Why create a world where millions of women and small children were killed in Auschwitz, Treblinka, and other extermination camps, and also murdered by SS soldiers and the Einsatzgruppen during World War II? Why? Just because they were Jews? Why create a world where, besides the Holocaust, other events like the Stalinist Holodomor and other genocides and crimes against humanity have occurred and still occur? A world where women and children are mistreated, assaulted, exploited, used in sex trafficking, mutilated, raped, and killed in such cruel ways? A world where millions and millions of humans have been killed by wars, famines, and plagues? A world where misogyny, religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, chauvinism, fascism, rampant capitalism, extreme poverty, theft, and hunger exist, etc.? A world where people experience hatred, violence, indifference, hypocrisy, lies, and rancor? A world where some people are so selfish and full of themselves, proud, vain, mean, hateful, arrogant, abusive, and narcissistic?

And this is just what comes to mind at the moment.

I know that this is a question that has been asked and pondered by great philosophers and theologians over millennia, but despite that, I would like to hear the perspective of the Christians in this forum.

A long time ago, I read a post that @ViaCrucis (CryptoLuther) wrote in this forum several years ago quoting the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard, who said that 'to believe in God, a leap of faith must be made.' I'm sorry, but unfortunately, I can't find that post anymore. Although I found this very interesting, I can't make the leap to faith and embrace Christianity. I feel that doing so would be abandoning reason. Sometimes Christians say that God is beyond reason or that His plans are mysterious and incomprehensible to our limited minds. If God often doesn't want us to use reason and critical thinking to question His actions, then why did He make us thinking and rational beings? And why is He so mysterious and sinister? If we cannot even know God's plans, actions, and mysteries, then why assume that He really cares about us? I simply wish I could at least begin to understand in some logical way why the Christian God, with all the attributes He has, allows these terrible and tragic things to happen to us and to the rest of His creation that He claims to love so much.

Why does a God who is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and good allow all this suffering and pain that we see and experience in this world?

Thank you for reading until here.

 

[Lost4words]

We failed at the outset with Adam and Eve. We became extremely vulnerable because we disobeyed God. Death then entered our lives along with pain and suffering.

 

[Brihaha]

I read in the bible God uses our sadness and suffering to bring us a change of heart, which leads to salvation. Many believers would not attain salvation if they never experienced pain or suffering. Our suffering is necessary for most of us to live in the word of God. God recognizes how detrimental it would be to spoil us with unjustified rewards.

 

[d taylor]

-

​

Man choose suffering. Well really he was seeking to know good and evil, not sure if he knew it would come with this heavy price tag attached

 

[Bobber]

I consider myself a pantheist and a freethinker, but I really want to regain my former faith in Christianity.

That's good! Hope you do so.

This made me question the goodness of the Christian God and my faith.

OK so a friend died and you've choose to believe God isn't good. Many things could be said and asked? What your friend a Christian. It's not that God loves Christians more then others but he does have systems by which his grace is released. So are so many things that could be asked about your friend and even if we knew all things you could tell us it never may be an absolute picture in regard to how God sees them.

And consider just because they weren't healed doesn't mean they didn't make heaven their home. So while you're getting offended down here on the Earth they might be liking to tell you don't be offended at God. They might not want to come back here even if they were given the chance. So don't be quick to get ticked off at God.

 

[Bobber]

There was a moment when I came across Epicurus' trilemma, which presents the following dilemma attributed to this philosopher, saying:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then He is not all-powerful.

God is all powerful but he releases his power in regard to certain principles. .

If God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

Why does God allow sin to exist. He's allowed it for a period of time, I call it a demonstration time where all can once and for all see what type of fruit independence from him produces. Once he's decided that time has lasted long enough you'll see the appointed day Paul talked about in Acts 17 where God will judge the world in righteousness. It's been however a painful, grieving thing however for God to allow it and he most certainly did not nor commission insidious evil type of sins we don't even want to mention to occur.....(as you Calvinists want to claim) .

His wisdom however says as painful as it is to him the end result of his not allowing it to play out unstopped could create bigger problems. That would be the on going accusations questioning God's fairness of not giving something a chance to see what beings could do with being independent from God. Seeing mankind chose sin the issue had to be settled. But don't go saying God ordained sin. That's totally opposite to the character and nature of the loving, gracious God.

 

[Bobber]

Why does God allow diseases like Tay-Sachs, which affect the neurons of some children, causing them to live short lives and experience horrible suffering? Why allow hepatic carcinoma that killed my friend, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer ......

So you're asking why God would allow physical afflictions that plague the people on earth. First when death came into the universe which is the degeneration of life all things physical were effected. The way God designed things to function in a very good way began to break down. Disease, affliction and death. began to manifest. The good news is the day is fast approaching were degeneration (death will be a thing of the past)

Sometimes Christians say that God is beyond reason or that His plans are mysterious and incomprehensible to our limited minds.

Not with all things. All things that pertain to life and godliness have been given unto us according to 2 Pt 1:3-10

And why is He so mysterious and sinister?

He's no where as much mysterious as a lot of people think he is. There are a few things here and there that he has chosen to reveal for if he did we'd spend all our time thinking about things not of vital importance to us in this present time.

If we cannot even know God's plans, actions, and mysteries, then why assume that He really cares about us?

But he has revealed his plans on all important matters and he does care about us.

I simply wish I could at least begin to understand in some logical way why the Christian God, with all the attributes He has, allows these terrible and tragic things to happen to us and to the rest of His creation that He claims to love so much.

He does love the creation very much.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Hello, I have known these forums for a few years, but I haven't accessed them for a long time and I noticed that things have changed around here.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this topic. If it's not, I apologize and ask the moderators to move it to the appropriate forum if this is not the right place for this kind of topic. I apologize in advance if I break any forum rules. And I also apologize for the long post below.

I consider myself a pantheist and a freethinker, but I really want to regain my former faith in Christianity. Yes, I was raised in a Christian family, my whole family is Christian, and I used to be a Christian as well. I started losing faith in the Christian God after I lost my friend to cancer several years ago. The ancient philosophical and theological problem of evil is perhaps one of the biggest and main challenges preventing me from returning to Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was taught in church that God is All-Powerful, All-Loving, Perfect, a God who hears our prayers and cares for us, an Omnipotent God. If this God really cares about us, why did He allow my friend to lose the battle against liver cancer? This disease made him wither and suffer in such a tragic and inhumane way, even after almost two years of treatments and many prayers, but none of that helped, he lost the battle and passed away. I considered him like a brother. This made me question the goodness of the Christian God and my faith.

There was a moment when I came across Epicurus' trilemma, which presents the following dilemma attributed to this philosopher, saying:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then He is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then He is not all-good.

If God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This was also one of the reasons that made me question the goodness of the Christian God. And several other questions related to evil and suffering arose, such as these:

Why does God allow diseases like Tay-Sachs, which affect the neurons of some children, causing them to live short lives and experience horrible suffering? Why allow hepatic carcinoma that killed my friend, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, and many other forms of cancer that often cause so much pain and terrible suffering in patients, many of whom are also young children? Why does leprosy exist, which, if untreated, rots the flesh and causes fingers to fall off? Why do such horrible congenital defects exist, such as epidermodysplasia verruciformis, cyclopia, ethmocephaly, craniopagus parasiticus, epidermolysis bullosa, anencephaly, progeria, spina bifida (and many other congenital diseases listed here https://medlineplus.gov/geneticsbirthdefects.html)? If you are sensitive to strong images, do not search for them on Google. The number of genetic and congenital errors that can occur is almost infinite. Why do mental and behavioral disorders exist, causing such horrible suffering that many people wish they had never been born, preferring to take their own lives, some even losing their sanity and discernment? Moreover, there are diseases like Alzheimer's, sickle cell anemia, autism, color blindness, diabetes, and countless other diseases that kill millions and millions of people, including babies and young children. Why does God allow natural disasters that have killed many people like these here ? Why do we have parasitic infections like malaria, dengue, Chagas disease, tetanus, lice, ticks, Loa loa, brain-eating amoebas, and many others? Why create a world with predation where animals cruelly kill each other to survive and where animals also suffer pain and agony? Why create a world where millions of women and small children were killed in Auschwitz, Treblinka, and other extermination camps, and also murdered by SS soldiers and the Einsatzgruppen during World War II? Why? Just because they were Jews? Why create a world where, besides the Holocaust, other events like the Stalinist Holodomor and other genocides and crimes against humanity have occurred and still occur? A world where women and children are mistreated, assaulted, exploited, used in sex trafficking, mutilated, raped, and killed in such cruel ways? A world where millions and millions of humans have been killed by wars, famines, and plagues? A world where misogyny, religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, chauvinism, fascism, rampant capitalism, extreme poverty, theft, and hunger exist, etc.? A world where people experience hatred, violence, indifference, hypocrisy, lies, and rancor? A world where some people are so selfish and full of themselves, proud, vain, mean, hateful, arrogant, abusive, and narcissistic?

And this is just what comes to mind at the moment.

I know that this is a question that has been asked and pondered by great philosophers and theologians over millennia, but despite that, I would like to hear the perspective of the Christians in this forum.

A long time ago, I read a post that @ViaCrucis (CryptoLuther) wrote in this forum several years ago quoting the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard, who said that 'to believe in God, a leap of faith must be made.' I'm sorry, but unfortunately, I can't find that post anymore. Although I found this very interesting, I can't make the leap to faith and embrace Christianity. I feel that doing so would be abandoning reason. Sometimes Christians say that God is beyond reason or that His plans are mysterious and incomprehensible to our limited minds. If God often doesn't want us to use reason and critical thinking to question His actions, then why did He make us thinking and rational beings? And why is He so mysterious and sinister? If we cannot even know God's plans, actions, and mysteries, then why assume that He really cares about us? I simply wish I could at least begin to understand in some logical way why the Christian God, with all the attributes He has, allows these terrible and tragic things to happen to us and to the rest of His creation that He claims to love so much.

Why does a God who is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and good allow all this suffering and pain that we see and experience in this world?

Thank you for reading until here.

God created the world perfectly, without pain, suffering or anything evil. He also created humanity and gave them choice to either obey or disobey, with a warning what will happen when they disobey.

When we sinned, sin entered the world and all the evil with it.

You see, God is Holy, and sin separates us from God, and separation from God is death. We need a Saviour, a redeemer, someone who will perfectly obey God, and makes a perfect sacrifice for our sin. And as we all sinned, and we cannot save ourselves, God sent His Son to die on the cross, that whoever believes in Him, should be saved, but who believes in Him not, should die in their sin.

The question you asked I hear all the time. No one ever asks why God allows good. It is not surprising God allows evil when we constantly sin. But why should God allow good when we constantly sin. We mock Him, we never thank Him for anything despite Him giving us life, taking care of us 24/7, He sends sun and rain so we have food, He gives all these good things and no one ever thanks Him. We constantly lie, cheat, hate others. We kill unborn babies and celebrate it, we kill each other, steal, rape, do all sorts of evil. Yet God does not treat us according to our sins, but is merciful and calls us to His Son to repent. But that will end one day, and God will justfully judge sinners.

You question the goodness of Christian God, well one day He will judge you, and ask you why you never done what He created you for, why you never obeyed. Then what? We all do this, question God all the time, but who are we to question the Creator, is He not allowed to do whatever He wants with His creation?

You asking where is the love of Him. God gave everything He has for our salvation, He gave Himself. He cannot do more than that.

So your question should be not why God allows evil, but why He allows good. And my question is this: have you ever done anything for God? Have you worshipped Him, loved Him and praised Him as He deserves? If not, then why do you want good things from Him?

And yet He still not judges you, but calls you to His Son to repent, so you may have an everlasting life, without suffering, pain, or any evil.

 

[eleos1954]

Hello, I have known these forums for a few years, but I haven't accessed them for a long time and I noticed that things have changed around here.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this topic. If it's not, I apologize and ask the moderators to move it to the appropriate forum if this is not the right place for this kind of topic. I apologize in advance if I break any forum rules. And I also apologize for the long post below.

I consider myself a pantheist and a freethinker, but I really want to regain my former faith in Christianity. Yes, I was raised in a Christian family, my whole family is Christian, and I used to be a Christian as well. I started losing faith in the Christian God after I lost my friend to cancer several years ago. The ancient philosophical and theological problem of evil is perhaps one of the biggest and main challenges preventing me from returning to Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was taught in church that God is All-Powerful, All-Loving, Perfect, a God who hears our prayers and cares for us, an Omnipotent God. If this God really cares about us, why did He allow my friend to lose the battle against liver cancer? This disease made him wither and suffer in such a tragic and inhumane way, even after almost two years of treatments and many prayers, but none of that helped, he lost the battle and passed away. I considered him like a brother. This made me question the goodness of the Christian God and my faith.

There was a moment when I came across Epicurus' trilemma, which presents the following dilemma attributed to this philosopher, saying:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then He is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then He is not all-good.

If God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This was also one of the reasons that made me question the goodness of the Christian God. And several other questions related to evil and suffering arose, such as these:

Why does God allow diseases like Tay-Sachs, which affect the neurons of some children, causing them to live short lives and experience horrible suffering? Why allow hepatic carcinoma that killed my friend, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, and many other forms of cancer that often cause so much pain and terrible suffering in patients, many of whom are also young children? Why does leprosy exist, which, if untreated, rots the flesh and causes fingers to fall off? Why do such horrible congenital defects exist, such as epidermodysplasia verruciformis, cyclopia, ethmocephaly, craniopagus parasiticus, epidermolysis bullosa, anencephaly, progeria, spina bifida (and many other congenital diseases listed here https://medlineplus.gov/geneticsbirthdefects.html)? If you are sensitive to strong images, do not search for them on Google. The number of genetic and congenital errors that can occur is almost infinite. Why do mental and behavioral disorders exist, causing such horrible suffering that many people wish they had never been born, preferring to take their own lives, some even losing their sanity and discernment? Moreover, there are diseases like Alzheimer's, sickle cell anemia, autism, color blindness, diabetes, and countless other diseases that kill millions and millions of people, including babies and young children. Why does God allow natural disasters that have killed many people like these here ? Why do we have parasitic infections like malaria, dengue, Chagas disease, tetanus, lice, ticks, Loa loa, brain-eating amoebas, and many others? Why create a world with predation where animals cruelly kill each other to survive and where animals also suffer pain and agony? Why create a world where millions of women and small children were killed in Auschwitz, Treblinka, and other extermination camps, and also murdered by SS soldiers and the Einsatzgruppen during World War II? Why? Just because they were Jews? Why create a world where, besides the Holocaust, other events like the Stalinist Holodomor and other genocides and crimes against humanity have occurred and still occur? A world where women and children are mistreated, assaulted, exploited, used in sex trafficking, mutilated, raped, and killed in such cruel ways? A world where millions and millions of humans have been killed by wars, famines, and plagues? A world where misogyny, religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, chauvinism, fascism, rampant capitalism, extreme poverty, theft, and hunger exist, etc.? A world where people experience hatred, violence, indifference, hypocrisy, lies, and rancor? A world where some people are so selfish and full of themselves, proud, vain, mean, hateful, arrogant, abusive, and narcissistic?

And this is just what comes to mind at the moment.

I know that this is a question that has been asked and pondered by great philosophers and theologians over millennia, but despite that, I would like to hear the perspective of the Christians in this forum.

A long time ago, I read a post that @ViaCrucis (CryptoLuther) wrote in this forum several years ago quoting the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard, who said that 'to believe in God, a leap of faith must be made.' I'm sorry, but unfortunately, I can't find that post anymore. Although I found this very interesting, I can't make the leap to faith and embrace Christianity. I feel that doing so would be abandoning reason. Sometimes Christians say that God is beyond reason or that His plans are mysterious and incomprehensible to our limited minds. If God often doesn't want us to use reason and critical thinking to question His actions, then why did He make us thinking and rational beings? And why is He so mysterious and sinister? If we cannot even know God's plans, actions, and mysteries, then why assume that He really cares about us? I simply wish I could at least begin to understand in some logical way why the Christian God, with all the attributes He has, allows these terrible and tragic things to happen to us and to the rest of His creation that He claims to love so much.

Why does a God who is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and good allow all this suffering and pain that we see and experience in this world?

Thank you for reading until here.

As Christians we must always keep in focus the big picture .... salvation .... God is indeed going to make everything right.

It is about love ... true love can not be forced it has to be a choice ... God created all His intelligent creatures with the ability to choose or not to choose (if not we would be a bunch of robots). When Adam and Eve chose to listen to satan (lies) rather than God (truth) sin-death entered into the world ... because God does indeed love us ... He provided the way (through Jesus) where the problem of sin/death can be extinguished ... but that way (through Jesus) isn't forced ... i

t's a choice. We have the freedom to choose ... Gods way or satan's way.

Complete Freedom requires choice. True Love requires choice. What we choose is up to us and there are consequences of the choices we make.

Don't blame God for mankinds bad choices ... He isn't a tyrant ... if He were ... He wouldn't have provided a remedy to our situation. That remedy is a choice (Jesus) because love can not be forced.

There is a lot of pain and suffering in this world ... this is true ... He goes through these things with us .... helps us to endure them .... He suffers along with us. He knows what we are going through.

As Christians we look forward to His return when He will indeed end all the pain and suffering for eternity.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello, I have known these forums for a few years, but I haven't accessed them for a long time and I noticed that things have changed around here.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this topic. If it's not, I apologize and ask the moderators to move it to the appropriate forum if this is not the right place for this kind of topic. I apologize in advance if I break any forum rules. And I also apologize for the long post below.

I consider myself a pantheist and a freethinker, but I really want to regain my former faith in Christianity. Yes, I was raised in a Christian family, my whole family is Christian, and I used to be a Christian as well. I started losing faith in the Christian God after I lost my friend to cancer several years ago. The ancient philosophical and theological problem of evil is perhaps one of the biggest and main challenges preventing me from returning to Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was taught in church that God is All-Powerful, All-Loving, Perfect, a God who hears our prayers and cares for us, an Omnipotent God. If this God really cares about us, why did He allow my friend to lose the battle against liver cancer? This disease made him wither and suffer in such a tragic and inhumane way, even after almost two years of treatments and many prayers, but none of that helped, he lost the battle and passed away. I considered him like a brother. This made me question the goodness of the Christian God and my faith.

There was a moment when I came across Epicurus' trilemma, which presents the following dilemma attributed to this philosopher, saying:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then He is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then He is not all-good.

If God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This was also one of the reasons that made me question the goodness of the Christian God. And several other questions related to evil and suffering arose, such as these:

Why does God allow diseases like Tay-Sachs, which affect the neurons of some children, causing them to live short lives and experience horrible suffering? Why allow hepatic carcinoma that killed my friend, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, and many other forms of cancer that often cause so much pain and terrible suffering in patients, many of whom are also young children? Why does leprosy exist, which, if untreated, rots the flesh and causes fingers to fall off? Why do such horrible congenital defects exist, such as epidermodysplasia verruciformis, cyclopia, ethmocephaly, craniopagus parasiticus, epidermolysis bullosa, anencephaly, progeria, spina bifida (and many other congenital diseases listed here https://medlineplus.gov/geneticsbirthdefects.html)? If you are sensitive to strong images, do not search for them on Google. The number of genetic and congenital errors that can occur is almost infinite. Why do mental and behavioral disorders exist, causing such horrible suffering that many people wish they had never been born, preferring to take their own lives, some even losing their sanity and discernment? Moreover, there are diseases like Alzheimer's, sickle cell anemia, autism, color blindness, diabetes, and countless other diseases that kill millions and millions of people, including babies and young children. Why does God allow natural disasters that have killed many people like these here ? Why do we have parasitic infections like malaria, dengue, Chagas disease, tetanus, lice, ticks, Loa loa, brain-eating amoebas, and many others? Why create a world with predation where animals cruelly kill each other to survive and where animals also suffer pain and agony? Why create a world where millions of women and small children were killed in Auschwitz, Treblinka, and other extermination camps, and also murdered by SS soldiers and the Einsatzgruppen during World War II? Why? Just because they were Jews? Why create a world where, besides the Holocaust, other events like the Stalinist Holodomor and other genocides and crimes against humanity have occurred and still occur? A world where women and children are mistreated, assaulted, exploited, used in sex trafficking, mutilated, raped, and killed in such cruel ways? A world where millions and millions of humans have been killed by wars, famines, and plagues? A world where misogyny, religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, chauvinism, fascism, rampant capitalism, extreme poverty, theft, and hunger exist, etc.? A world where people experience hatred, violence, indifference, hypocrisy, lies, and rancor? A world where some people are so selfish and full of themselves, proud, vain, mean, hateful, arrogant, abusive, and narcissistic?

And this is just what comes to mind at the moment.

I know that this is a question that has been asked and pondered by great philosophers and theologians over millennia, but despite that, I would like to hear the perspective of the Christians in this forum.

A long time ago, I read a post that @ViaCrucis (CryptoLuther) wrote in this forum several years ago quoting the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard, who said that 'to believe in God, a leap of faith must be made.' I'm sorry, but unfortunately, I can't find that post anymore. Although I found this very interesting, I can't make the leap to faith and embrace Christianity. I feel that doing so would be abandoning reason. Sometimes Christians say that God is beyond reason or that His plans are mysterious and incomprehensible to our limited minds. If God often doesn't want us to use reason and critical thinking to question His actions, then why did He make us thinking and rational beings? And why is He so mysterious and sinister? If we cannot even know God's plans, actions, and mysteries, then why assume that He really cares about us? I simply wish I could at least begin to understand in some logical way why the Christian God, with all the attributes He has, allows these terrible and tragic things to happen to us and to the rest of His creation that He claims to love so much.

Why does a God who is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and good allow all this suffering and pain that we see and experience in this world?

Thank you for reading until here.

There isn't really a knock-down, drag-out answer anyone can give you on this, and being that the Argument from Evil is the one argument I don't have a clear answer on myself and I don't think anyone really does, all I can offer are a few ideas to consider.

1) On Predatory Animals - Energy exchange "happens" between trophic levels in all of earth's ecosystems, so animals feed on other animals and/or on other forms of organic life. It's a matter of the interplay between physics and biology, and since we don't live in a stiff, static universe or existence, energy flows between and among systems everywhere and at all times.

2) On Human Suffering - From an evolutionary view, we are like the animals mentioned above, needing energy and thus we feed off of what is around us. As for human violence and death, I'll just say that from a Biblical point of view, this is due to the fact that most of humanity has a difficult time responding to what God has instilled within us; we thus are subject to injury, sickness, entropy and death.

3) Taking a "leap of faith" - This idea that Soren Kierkegaard used doesn't have anything to do with turning off our reasoning capacities within our minds. He wasn't offering a Pre-Charismatic notion or mere interpretation of "leaning not on our own understanding." No, he was responding to the epistemological and historical criticisms made against the Christian Faith by Gotthold Ephraim Lessing during the 1700s. What a "leap of faith" entails for Kierkegaard is a willingness to reach out to Christ with our whole person despite the fact that we realize we only have partial evidences for Christianity and we don't have certainty in our engagement with God or with The Bible.

4) Epicurean Trilemma - Lastly, the supposed dilemma (trilemma) attributed to Epicurus doesn't really deal with the Traditional Jewish/Israelite view of God. No, it deals with the idea of the "God of the Philosophers." So rather than applying this trilemma all too easily like so many folks do, it would be better (and more philosophically appropriate and cogent) to apply our griefs in life to the Biblical view of God instead, if the desire for Christian Faith is being sought. In sum, the biblical view as you already know posits that in a Fallen World, we all suffer, but by the personal response and faith we give to God, we can look forward to an Ultimate, Supreme Solution in the Resurrection which God will provide through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.

​

Epicurean paradox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anyway, as I said, there is no answer that will satisfy us in the here and now of this life. Rather than looking for a clear answer, I'd suggest seeing a counselor in order to help you with any residual trauma you may have been experiencing through your hardships and the loss of your friend. I'm sorry to hear that he passed.


Peace.

 

[Joy]

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From Ethics & Morality

To Exploring Christianity

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Felix.manuel]

Thank you to everyone who responded.

I saw that the moderators moved the topic to a more appropriate forum. Therefore, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to discuss or debate here in this part of the forum.

 

[Felix.manuel]

Am I allowed to respond the answers in this part of the forum?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Am I allowed to respond the answers in this part of the forum?

In general, yes. They moved your OP because it doesn't really fit here. Usually, when they move a thread, all that's left is a link and you wouldn't even have the option to continue the topic here. For some reason, that didn't happen.

On this topic, I'd suggest you go to where that thread was moved and post there.

But again, this particular sub-forum is open to everyone.

 

[dlamberth]

Why does a God who is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and good allow all this suffering and pain that we see and experience in this world?

Thank you for reading until here.

I think this line of questioning has more to do with the image of God a person has than what God is actually able to do.

 

[Felix.manuel]

I apologize in advance if my responses offend anyone's faith or disrespect the rules of this subforum.

 

[Felix.manuel]

We failed at the outset with Adam and Eve. We became extremely vulnerable because we disobeyed God. Death then entered our lives along with pain and suffering.

I don't believe that Adam and Eve existed, so I don't see why we should say that we failed them. Why should we pay for their mistake? Why did God allow death to enter the world and the Universe because of a mistake made by two people?

 

[Felix.manuel]

I read in the bible God uses our sadness and suffering to bring us a change of heart, which leads to salvation. Many believers would not attain salvation if they never experienced pain or suffering. Our suffering is necessary for most of us to live in the word of God. God recognizes how detrimental it would be to spoil us with unjustified rewards.

This change wouldn't be necessary if God had created us with a righteous and upright heart. I was taught that in the Christian religion, God is Omnipotent. Therefore, isn't it possible for Him to save us without the need for us to experience the immense pains and sufferings we endure in this world? I don't see any necessity or purpose for a child to suffer horribly and die in childhood. God could have created us in a way that we wouldn't cling to frivolous, unjustified rewards and prizes, right?

 

[Felix.manuel]

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​

Man choose suffering. Well really he was seeking to know good and evil, not sure if he knew it would come with this heavy price tag attached

I believe most people don't choose or want to suffer. A woman and a child don't choose to be abused and molested. A child doesn't choose to have any of those congenital diseases I listed in my OP. An honest worker and family man don't choose to be robbed and killed on their way to work.

 

[Brihaha]

This change wouldn't be necessary if God had created us with a righteous and upright heart. I was taught that in the Christian religion, God is Omnipotent. Therefore, isn't it possible for Him to save us without the need for us to experience the immense pains and sufferings we endure in this world? I don't see any necessity or purpose for a child to suffer horribly and die in childhood. God could have created us in a way that we wouldn't cling to frivolous, unjustified rewards and prizes, right?

The unjustified reward I spoke of is salvation. If we didn't have pain and suffering it many people would have no need to turn to Jesus for salvation. He uses suffering to inspire us to do His will and attain salvation, because faith without works is not real faith. We are not worthy of heaven without His grace. None of us.