“We are all fundamentally good ... the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis

[TheWayOfHoliness]

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

But what does God’s word say?

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

If man and his heart is fundamentally good, why do we need a saviour?
For what purpose did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, die?
Who should we believe, the Pope, or God?

As it is written, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

But there is good news...

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was crucified and died for our sins, taking upon Himself the punishment we deserve. He was then buried and raised back to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. He now sits at His Father’s right hand and is awaiting His Father’s instruction to return. This was all recorded in the scriptures contained in the Holy Bible, which is the word of God and is able to save our souls.

Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart in rebellion. Whoever conceals his sins will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy and forgiveness. If you repent and believe in the gospel, putting your faith in Jesus Christ, you will inherit salvation, which leads to everlasting life. With this salvation comes a necessary spiritual rebirth; God will give you a new heart and His Holy Spirit, which will give you wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, put His Laws on your heart and mind, guide you into all the truth, help you, and comfort you. By the blood of Jesus, sanctifying you and cleansing you of all unrighteousness—conforming you to His image.

 

[d taylor]

-
​

Mans problem is not about being good or bad. It is about life, more specifically Eternal Life also known as The Life of God. Which man does not receive at birth, because of Adam. But God being a gracious God created a simple way (and only one way) man can receive The life of God.

The simple way is by belief in Jesus, believing that Jesus is who He says He is. Which is the resurrection and the life, The promised Messiah/Son of God.

When a person believes this about Jesus they become a pernamnet born again child of God. At the very moment of belief in Jesus, they cross over from death to life.

So a person never needs to worry at all about are they good enough to be judged by God to receive eternal life. Because the person is not and never will be, so just receive God's free gift by belief in Jesus.

 

[Clare73]

-Mans problem is not about being good or bad. It is about life, more specifically Eternal Life also known as The Life of God. Which man does not receive at birth, because of Adam. But God being a gracious God created a simple way (and only one way) man can receive The life of God.​

The simple way is by belief in Jesus, believing that Jesus is who He says He is. Which is the resurrection and the life, The promised Messiah/Son of God.

And believing in his atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) for the remission of your sin.

When a person believes this about Jesus they become a pernamnet born again child of God. At the very moment of belief in Jesus, they cross over from death to life.

So a person never needs to worry at all about are they good enough to be judged by God to receive eternal life. Because the person is not and never will be, so just receive God's free gift by belief in Jesus.

 

[RandyPNW]

View attachment 348436

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

But what does God’s word say?

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

If man and his heart is fundamentally good, why do we need a saviour?
For what purpose did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, die?
Who should we believe, the Pope, or God?

As it is written, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

But there is good news...

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was crucified and died for our sins, taking upon Himself the punishment we deserve. He was then buried and raised back to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. He now sits at His Father’s right hand and is awaiting His Father’s instruction to return. This was all recorded in the scriptures contained in the Holy Bible, which is the word of God and is able to save our souls.

Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart in rebellion. Whoever conceals his sins will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy and forgiveness. If you repent and believe in the gospel, putting your faith in Jesus Christ, you will inherit salvation, which leads to everlasting life. With this salvation comes a necessary spiritual rebirth; God will give you a new heart and His Holy Spirit, which will give you wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, put His Laws on your heart and mind, guide you into all the truth, help you, and comfort you. By the blood of Jesus, sanctifying you and cleansing you of all unrighteousness—conforming you to His image.

My problem is not with a single soundbite, but more, with the reputation of Francis. He comes off as a modernist, as a liberal, as a political progressive. At every turn he seems to want to court pagans, while doing it in the name and words of Christianity. I call that "liberal theology."

We are all created in God's image, so yes, we are fundamentally good creations. But we are also fundamentally sick people because we've invited, via Adam, a sin nature into our bodies, and now we lean towards wanting our own way--not complying with the need to operate via God's word.

This is pure theological liberalism and compromise with pagan theology of tolerance. Bad stuff. His political interests lean Left, and I'm not surprised. His motto should be: invite a transgender to church! Or, lump the Jews with Hamas.

 

[Matt5]

Ex-pope Benedict says God told him to resign during 'mystical experience' | Pope Benedict XVI | The Guardian

I wonder why Gold told ex-pope Benedict to resign? Pope Francis doesn't even know about the heart.

 

[Clare73]

My problem is not with a single soundbite, but more, with the reputation of Francis. He comes off as a modernist, as a liberal, as a political progressive. At every turn he seems to want to court pagans, while doing it in the name and words of Christianity. I call that "liberal theology."
We are all created in God's image, so yes, we are fundamentally good creations. But we are also fundamentally sick people because we've invited, via Adam, a sin nature into our bodies, and now we lean towards wanting our own way--not complying with the need to operate via God's word.
This is pure theological liberalism and compromise with pagan theology of tolerance. Bad stuff. His political interests lean Left, and I'm not surprised. His motto should be: invite a transgender to church! Or, lump the Jews with Hamas.

Sounds like he doesn't understand the bad news for which the good news of the gospel is the remedy.

 

[d taylor]

And believing in his atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) for the remission of your sin.

-​

I am going to ask you nicely to stop quoting my post and posting Romans 3:25. You have done this several times and i have replied those several times. That believing in Jesus' blood gives no one God's free gift of Eternal Life.

It is only belief in the person Jesus, so there is no and to it.

 

[Clare73]

I am going to ask you nicely to stop quoting my post and posting Romans 3:25. You have done this several times and i have replied those several times. That believing in Jesus' blood gives no one God's free gift of Eternal Life.​

It is only belief in the person Jesus, so there is no and to it.

It is belief in him being who he says he is,
and he says he is the good shepherd who lays down his life for his sheep (Jn 10:11, 14); i.e., his atonement on the cross.
He says he is our atonement.

And are you not understanding Ro 3:25?

"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood (i.e., atonement)." (Ro 3:25)

His atonement for my sin is applied to me through faith and trust in that atonement.

If you aren't trusting his atonement (blood), at least implicitly, to pay for your sin, then it doesn't apply to you, you are not forgiven your sin, and are still unsaved.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

Why did God create us so unrighteous?…

Genesis 1
…27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

...30 And to every beast of the earth and every bird of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth—everything that has the breath of life in it—I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning— the sixth day.

 

[Clare73]

Why did God create us so unrighteous?…
Genesis 1
…27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
...30 And to every beast of the earth and every bird of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth—everything that has the breath of life in it—I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning— the sixth day.

Are you unaware that God created (only) Adam and Eve, that he created them righteous, that they forfeited their righteousness and corrupted their nature by disobedience, and now all Adam's descendants (by natural generation) inherit Adam's fallen nature (unrighteousness)?

 

[Unqualified]

That was before the fall.

 

[Clare73]

That was before the fall.

Mankind is generated (from man) after the fall, not created (by God himself).

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Are you unaware that God created (only) Adam and Eve, that he created them righteous, that they forfeited their righteousness and corrupted their nature by disobedience, and now all Adam's descendants (by natural generation) inherit Adam's fallen nature (unrighteousness)?

How does one who is righteous disobey?

 

[Clare73]

How does one who is righteous disobey?

By choice. . .Eve by deception, Adam by love of Eve over God.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

By choice. . .

Then to make that choice one must not be very righteous.

 

[Clare73]

Then to make that choice one must not be very righteous.

The righteous are free to choose unrighteousness, are free to prefer something over God, as did the fallen angels and fallen man.

 

[eleos1954]

View attachment 348436

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

But what does God’s word say?

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

If man and his heart is fundamentally good, why do we need a saviour?
For what purpose did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, die?
Who should we believe, the Pope, or God?

As it is written, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

But there is good news...

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was crucified and died for our sins, taking upon Himself the punishment we deserve. He was then buried and raised back to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. He now sits at His Father’s right hand and is awaiting His Father’s instruction to return. This was all recorded in the scriptures contained in the Holy Bible, which is the word of God and is able to save our souls.

Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart in rebellion. Whoever conceals his sins will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy and forgiveness. If you repent and believe in the gospel, putting your faith in Jesus Christ, you will inherit salvation, which leads to everlasting life. With this salvation comes a necessary spiritual rebirth; God will give you a new heart and His Holy Spirit, which will give you wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, put His Laws on your heart and mind, guide you into all the truth, help you, and comfort you. By the blood of Jesus, sanctifying you and cleansing you of all unrighteousness—conforming you to His image.

Catholic doctrine is man centered (humanism) not Christ centered.

hu·man·ism
/ˈhyo͞oməˌniz(ə)m/

noun

1. an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So you all think it is Catholic and Christian teaching that the human heart is fundamentally evil?

Article 1

MAN: THE IMAGE OF GOD

1701 "Christ, . . . in the very revelation of the mystery of the Father and of his love, makes man fully manifest to himself and brings to light his exalted vocation." It is in Christ, "the image of the invisible God," that man has been created "in the image and likeness" of the Creator. It is in Christ, Redeemer and Savior, that the divine image, disfigured in man by the first sin, has been restored to its original beauty and ennobled by the grace of God.

1702 The divine image is present in every man. It shines forth in the communion of persons, in the likeness of the union of the divine persons among themselves.

1703 Endowed with "a spiritual and immortal" soul, The human person is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake." From his conception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

1704 The human person participates in the light and power of the divine Spirit. By his reason, he is capable of understanding the order of things established by the Creator. By free will, he is capable of directing himself toward his true good. He finds his perfection "in seeking and loving what is true and good."

1705 By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an "outstanding manifestation of the divine image."

1706 By his reason, man recognizes the voice of God which urges him "to do what is good and avoid what is evil." Everyone is obliged to follow this law, which makes itself heard in conscience and is fulfilled in the love of God and of neighbor. Living a moral life bears witness to the dignity of the person.

1707 "Man, enticed by the Evil One, abused his freedom at the very beginning of history."10 He succumbed to temptation and did what was evil. He still desires the good, but his nature bears the wound of original sin. He is now inclined to evil and subject to error:
Man is divided in himself. As a result, the whole life of men, both individual and social, shows itself to be a struggle, and a dramatic one, between good and evil, between light and darkness.

1708 By his Passion, Christ delivered us from Satan and from sin. He merited for us the new life in the Holy Spirit. His grace restores what sin had damaged in us.

1709 He who believes in Christ becomes a son of God. This filial adoption transforms him by giving him the ability to follow the example of Christ. It makes him capable of acting rightly and doing good. In union with his Savior, the disciple attains the perfection of charity which is holiness. Having matured in grace, the moral life blossoms into eternal life in the glory of heaven.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Martin Luther and John Calvin would not agree. They taught that thanks to Adam and Eve, man became evil by nature.

In fact, both Catholics and Protestants would hold to the thesis that human beings are basically good, in a certain sense, but we’d also both hold to the view that, in another sense, we’re basically bad. We should note, too, that here, we’re talking about classical Protestants like Calvinists and Lutherans of the old variety.

So, we all agree that, as creatures, we’re God’s idea, and God’s idea is always a good idea. God doesn’t create evil. He creates good. So, in that respect, we’re good. And because God made humanity for union with himself, he made humanity for a good end. At least at the level of our nature, understood in this way, we’re a good thing.

On the other hand, it’s also true that both Catholics and Protestants would hold that human beings are basically bad. When Protestants speak of a “sin nature,” Catholics often hear them saying that we sin by virtue of God’s design. If we have a “sin nature” then we sin because we’re human; to be human is to be a sinner. This is what gives people the impression that Protestants just think people are bad.

Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil? - Catholic Studies Academy

When asked what differentiates a Catholic perspective from a Protestant perspective on the world, many people today are inclined to say that it lies in the way we see human beings. Protestants, they’ll generalize, see human beings as basically evil, while Catholics see human beings as generally...

catholicstudiesacademy.com

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So we want to quote scripture? Then are these contradictory?

Romans 3:10

“There is none righteous, not even one;




Proverbs 24:16

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again,
But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.

Romans says none are righteous. Proverbs says there is at least one.
Do we not see how futile and small it is to use scripter as a weapon?

 

[d taylor]

So we want to quote scripture? Then are these contradictory?

Romans 3:10

“There is none righteous, not even one;




Proverbs 24:16

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again,
But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.

Romans says none are righteous. Proverbs says there is at least one.
Do we not see how futile and small it is to use scripter as a weapon?

-
​

When The Bible is speaking of a person as righteous, this person is a born again believer. That is why Romans 3:10 can say none is righteous. As no human on their own standing is righteous, but the very moment a person believes in Jesus for Eternal Life. They move from not being righteous to a permanent position of righteousness. Because now they have living in them, the very Life of God which makes them righteous before God.