Israel-Hamas Thread II

[JosephZ]

The two major parties in the close election both consisted of jihadists.

Hamas, an Islamist party, beat Fatah, a secular movement, in the 2006 Palestinian Legislative Council elections. Factional fighting erupted after the two parties failed to reach a power-sharing agreement. Hundreds died. The Palestinian Territories divided into two polities: Hamas ruled Gaza, and Fatah led the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank.

It's also important to remember that the last election in Gaza was in 2006. 70% of Palestinians in Gaza today are under the age of 30. Anyone under the age of 35 were either not born yet or were too young to vote when the 2006 election was held. When Hamas did win in 2006, it won with just 44% of the vote. This leaves only a tiny percentage (Less than 15% ?) of Palestinians alive today who voted for Hamas.

And many, many people had to be aware of the extensive tunnel building and should have reported that information to Israel.

Palestinians, for the most part, don't trust Israel or the IDF, and Israel has had a blockade on Gaza, controlling the movement of people going in and out since Hamas took over. Gaza is only 25 miles long and 4 to 8 miles wide, and Palestinians in Gaza live in an environment where doing anything against Hamas could pose significant risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. It's not like the Palestinians have had anyone they trust to report the building of tunnels over the past several years or an assurance of their safety if they did.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Gaza is being destroyed. Ironically in this photo of total devastation in Khan Younis, a single palm tree survives!

 

[Philip_B]

Balfour Agreement?

I presume you mean the Balfour Declaration.

 

[Vanellus]

Japan was the same way in World War II, claiming they were the victims. A savage jihadist organization like Hamas must be stopped.

It's already been explained why going back to WW2 morality doesn't apply now - look up Geneva Conventions of 1949.

 

[Vanellus]

Gaza is being destroyed. Ironically in this photo of total devastation in Khan Younis, a single palm tree survives!

View attachment 346124

Sadly for Amalek solution loving Netanyahu there are two human beings still alive in the picture as well. Wasn't Khan Younis supposed to be a safe place once?

 

[rjs330]

This sounds like propaganda. This forum deserves better. I am unclear if you are referring to Hamas or the Palestinians. In either case, you appear to be doing it without a balanced view of history.

I know you believe that. That's okay. The Palestinians were attacking Israel before Hamas came along.

 

[rjs330]

How many Palestinians do you personally know?

All I have to know is the history. All I have to know is what they've been been doing around the world. All I have to know is what "From the River to the Sea" means.

Please give a some really good that's come from there since the 40s.

 

[rjs330]

You're misinterpreting the poll.

It is clear from the findings however, that support for the offensive does not mean support for Hamas. Instead, the findings show that three quarters of the Palestinians believe that the offensive has put the Palestinian-Israeli issue at the center of attention after years of neglect at the regional and international levels.

From your own link.

Support for Hamas’ decision to launch the October the 7th offensive remains unchanged:

As we did in our previous poll three months ago, we asked the respondents in this poll what they thought of Hamas’ decision to launch the October the 7th offensive. A vast majority of 71%, compared to 72% in December 2023, say it was correct. However, despite the stability of the total response, the findings do show significant change when looking at the two areas separately. As the figure below shows, the perception that the decision of the offensive was correct drops in the West Bank by 11 points and increases in the Gaza Strip by 14 points.

When asked about their own preferences for the party that should be in control in the Gaza Strip after the war, 59% (64% in the West Bank and 52% in the Gaza Strip) selected Hamas; 13% selected the PA without President Abbas; 11% selected the PA with Abbas; 3% selected one or more Arab country;1% selected the UN, and 1% selected the Israeli army. Three months ago, we asked an identical question, but with a slightly different set of options to choose from. At that time, a similar percentage (60% in total; 75% in the West Bank and 38% in the Gaza Strip) selected Hamas as the party preferred by the respondents to control the Gaza Strip after the war. The change in the preferences of the Gazans, with a 14-point increase among them selecting Hamas today, is one of the most intriguing findings of the current poll. But it is consistent with the increase, indicated above, in the percentage of Gazans who think Hamas will win the current war. This is particularly interesting because the opposite happened in the West Bank, with the preference for Hamas dropping significantly by 11 points. Yet, this West Bank finding is consistent with the significant decrease by 14 points, also indicated above, in the percentage of West Bankers who think Hamas will win the war.

Note that the Palestinians STILL want Hamas in power. They STILL support them. They STILL agree with the attack on Israel.
And when asked about presidential voting the Hamas candidates wins hands down every time.

So please to try to urinate on us and try to tell us it's raining. We aren't buying it anymore.

 

[Philip_B]

I know you believe that. That's okay. The Palestinians were attacking Israel before Hamas came along.

Maybe that helps explain why at one stage Netanyahu was supporting Hamas.

By the way, so you know, I think Hamas was played like a violin to be the useful idiot. I think there is a lot more going on.

 

[JosephZ]

Support for Hamas’ decision to launch the October the 7th offensive remains unchanged:

Note that the Palestinians STILL want Hamas in power. They STILL support them. They STILL agree with the attack on Israel.
And when asked about presidential voting the Hamas candidates wins hands down every time.

Of course, there is going to be a high level of support for the party that's inflicting pain on those responsible for causing them hardship, destroying their homes, and killing their loved ones.

Even though Hamas is a terrorist group and is responsible for carrying out horrific atrocities against Israel, and even exploiting the Palestinian people themselves, in the eyes of the Palestinians, Hamas is hurting those who have destroyed their lives. Hamas has also been able to bring international attention to their plight which has resulted in support for Palestinians being higher on a global scale than at any time in the past. This is why you see such high numbers in the polls in support of Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank, despite the fact that they are a terrorist group.

 

[JosephZ]

All I have to know is the history. All I have to know is what they've been been doing around the world. All I have to know is what "From the River to the Sea" means.

I'll take that as a no.

Please give a some really good that's come from there since the 40s.

In the 1940s during the Second World War thousands of Palestinians volunteered to serve in the British army with many of them losing their lives in the process of defeating Germany and Italy.

There are many products exported from Palestine.

The main products exported from Palestine to United States in 2022 were Pure Olive Oil ($10.5M), Tropical Fruits ($2.06M), and Other Nuts ($1.51M). During the last 22 years the exports of Palestine to United States have increased at an annualized rate of 7.59%, from $4.81M in 2000 to $24.1M in 2022.

In 2022, Palestine was the world's biggest exporter of Glazed Ceramics ($23.1M) and overall, Palestine exported $1.61B in products globally.


Another export is its people. There are countless Palestinians who have emigrated, either voluntary or otherwise since the 1940s. They are teachers, doctors, nurses, researchers, artists, and musicians who have made contributions to the countries they live in now.

 

[rjs330]

Of course, there is going to be a high level of support for the party that's inflicting pain on those responsible for causing them hardship, destroying their homes, and killing their loved ones.

Even though Hamas is a terrorist group and is responsible for carrying out horrific atrocities against Israel, and even exploiting the Palestinian people themselves, in the eyes of the Palestinians, Hamas is hurting those who have destroyed their lives. Hamas has also been able to bring international attention to their plight which has resulted in support for Palestinians being higher on a global scale than at any time in the past. This is why you see such high numbers in the polls in support of Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank, despite the fact that they are a terrorist group.

You realize that this supports my assertion. They supported Hamas before Israel attacked. You just supported what I've been saying. The Palestinians as a group supporyed.terrorists. Even before Israel attacked them for guess what, doing terrorist things and supporting the terrorists.

 

[rjs330]

I'll take that as a no.

Okay. Interpret it as you wish.

Another export is its people. There are countless Palestinians who have emigrated, either voluntary or otherwise since the 1940s. They are teachers, doctors, nurses, researchers, artists, and musicians who have made contributions to the countries they live in now.

Olive oil, nut exports and pottery? That's the good that came from Palestine? Combine that with missiles and terrorist attacks, I guess that balances out.

 

[JosephZ]

They supported Hamas before Israel attacked. You just supported what I've been saying. The Palestinians as a group supporyed.terrorists. Even before Israel attacked them for guess what, doing terrorist things and supporting the terrorists.

Support wasn't as high in the past. In fact, just prior to the October 7th attack on israel polls showed 69% of Palestinians said Hamas didn't deserve to represent them.

You also have to remember that Israel has been attacking and oppressing the Palestinians long before Hamas was even elected.

 

[JosephZ]

Okay. Interpret it as you wish.

I asked if you know any Palestinians personally and you responded with "All I have to know is the history."

How else is that to be interpreted?

 

[rjs330]

You also have to remember that Israel has been attacking and oppressing the Palestinians long before Hamas was even elected.

Nope, the Palestinians have been attacking Israel and Israel responded. That's like saying the Germans were attacked and oppressed after they attempted to conquer Europe and blaming the British for attacking the Nazis.

 

[Valletta]

I'll take that as a no.


In the 1940s during the Second World War thousands of Palestinians volunteered to serve in the British army with many of them losing their lives in the process of defeating Germany and Italy.

There are many products exported from Palestine.

The main products exported from Palestine to United States in 2022 were Pure Olive Oil ($10.5M), Tropical Fruits ($2.06M), and Other Nuts ($1.51M). During the last 22 years the exports of Palestine to United States have increased at an annualized rate of 7.59%, from $4.81M in 2000 to $24.1M in 2022.

View attachment 346166

In 2022, Palestine was the world's biggest exporter of Glazed Ceramics ($23.1M) and overall, Palestine exported $1.61B in products globally.


Another export is its people. There are countless Palestinians who have emigrated, either voluntary or otherwise since the 1940s. They are teachers, doctors, nurses, researchers, artists, and musicians who have made contributions to the countries they live in now.

Yes, there were Palestinian Arabs that did join Palestinian Jews in joining up with the British army. There were a lot of poor and financial reasons motivated some. But there were also those who aligned themselves with the Nazis, who had a common cause in trying to exterminate Jews.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Bodies of missing 6-year-old, paramedics found in north Gaza, aid group says​

The ambulance dispatched to reach her was also found shelled on Saturday with the two paramedics inside also killed, the PCRS said. In a statement, it accused the Israeli military of directly targeting the ambulance crew as it tried to rescue the child. The route had been coordinated with Israeli authorities in advance, it said.

Palestinian paramedics said Israel gave them safe passage to save a 6-year-old girl in Gaza. They were all killed.​

For 3½ long hours on Jan. 29, the cellphone in 6-year-old Hind Rajab’shands was the closest thing she had to a lifeline. Alone in the back seat of a car outside a Gaza City gas station, she was drifting in and out of consciousness, surrounded by bodies, as she told emergency dispatchers that Israeli tanks were rumbling closer.

From the operations room of the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), roughly 50 miles away in the city of Ramallah, the team on duty had done their best to save the child. Paramedics were on their way, the dispatchers kept telling her: Hold on.

The paramedics were driving to their deaths.

The ambulance lay charred roughly 50 meters (about 164 feet) away from the car [where the girl also joined her family in death], its destruction consistent with the use of a round fired by Israeli tanks, according to six munitions experts.

In a statement, the Israel Defense Forces said it had conducted a preliminary investigation and that its forces were “not present near the vehicle or within the firing range” of the Hamada family car.

The [US] State Department said it has raised the case repeatedly with the Israelis. “The Israelis told us there had, in fact, been IDF units in the area, but the IDF had no knowledge of or involvement in the type of strike described,” spokesman Matthew Miller said.

A Washington Post investigation found that Israeli armored vehicles were present in the area that afternoon. The Post additionally found that the gunfire audible as Hind and her cousin Layan begged for help and the extensive damage caused to the ambulance were consistent with Israeli weapons.

In mid-March, Elad Goren, head of Coordination and Liaison Administration at COGAT, told The Post that the agency “coordinated everything … including the ambulance that wanted to go and find Hind,” but said he was “not aware” of the specifics.

The IDF denied that any coordination had taken place, repeating its assertion that its forces were not in the area. [The IDF gave no comment to the story.]

[Some similarities to the deaths of the World Central Kitchen workers, but no Americans died in this event. Just paramedics and children.]

 

[Valletta]

Palestinian paramedics said Israel gave them safe passage to save a 6-year-old girl in Gaza. They were all killed.​

For 3½ long hours on Jan. 29, the cellphone in 6-year-old Hind Rajab’shands was the closest thing she had to a lifeline. Alone in the back seat of a car outside a Gaza City gas station, she was drifting in and out of consciousness, surrounded by bodies, as she told emergency dispatchers that Israeli tanks were rumbling closer.

From the operations room of the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), roughly 50 miles away in the city of Ramallah, the team on duty had done their best to save the child. Paramedics were on their way, the dispatchers kept telling her: Hold on.

The paramedics were driving to their deaths.

The ambulance lay charred roughly 50 meters (about 164 feet) away from the car [where the girl also joined her family in death], its destruction consistent with the use of a round fired by Israeli tanks, according to six munitions experts.

In a statement, the Israel Defense Forces said it had conducted a preliminary investigation and that its forces were “not present near the vehicle or within the firing range” of the Hamada family car.

The [US] State Department said it has raised the case repeatedly with the Israelis. “The Israelis told us there had, in fact, been IDF units in the area, but the IDF had no knowledge of or involvement in the type of strike described,” spokesman Matthew Miller said.

A Washington Post investigation found that Israeli armored vehicles were present in the area that afternoon. The Post additionally found that the gunfire audible as Hind and her cousin Layan begged for help and the extensive damage caused to the ambulance were consistent with Israeli weapons.

In mid-March, Elad Goren, head of Coordination and Liaison Administration at COGAT, told The Post that the agency “coordinated everything … including the ambulance that wanted to go and find Hind,” but said he was “not aware” of the specifics.

The IDF denied that any coordination had taken place, repeating its assertion that its forces were not in the area. [The IDF gave no comment to the story.]

[Some similarities to the deaths of the World Central Kitchen workers, but no Americans died in this event. Just paramedics and children.]

We have seen Israel go after a military target in Iran and again avoid civilian targets after hundreds of rockets were fired at Israel. Enough with the propaganda.

 

[Desk trauma]

I see the civilian casualties are fictional today, going back to them being ok because operation meetinghouse was worse tomorrow or is this the line for the weekend?