How Old Is The Earth

[Mercy Shown]

Do you believe that "I am a door" is inspired?

For me, I believe the whole book is inspired. I believe the metaphors are inspired and the literal is inspired and the formation of the book is inspired. But as with any piece of written text I take the metaphors as metaphors and the literal as literal and I don’t decide which is which I let the author do that.

For instance when I came across, “The Wolf of Wall Street” I understood that that was a metaphor however I also understood that the author’s purpose in creating the work was not a metaphor.

I also understand the structures of Hebert poetry and realize that Genesis was probably an oral tradition pass down until Moses inscribed it.

But I also am aware of key players in the new testament and their quotes of the old testament and their belief in it. And I refuse to believe that Jesus Christ, the son of God, would have been ignorant of evolution if he really was the son of God.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Evolutionary models are commonly used in our daily life. There is no "YEC model" that is useful for anything.

This does not make them scientifically true.

 

[BNR32FAN]

1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) time, period (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Yovm doesn’t mean all these definitions there are different variations of the root word Yovm that have different meanings. I provided several of the different variations in my original post to you. Here’s a few examples Yovm, Beyovm, Yamim, Yamei, all of these are different variations of the root word Yovm that have different meanings but in Strong’s Concordance they are all assigned the same reference number H3117. So the verses you were quoting do not actually use Yovm that’s what I was showing in my post and if you click on the link I provided for each verse you will see the actual word for word translation from Hebrew to English. Here are some pictures below. Notice the different spelling of the words but they all have the same Strong’s reference number H3117

 

[Platte]

Yes, you should look at it as their description, but you are still reading it as if it was our description, from today's textbooks.

At least you agree that the Bible says the Earth was created in 6 days - 6000 years ago. Thats a good start for you.

 

[trophy33]

At least you agree that the Bible says the Earth was created in 6 days - 6000 years ago. Thats a good start for you.

Its possible to get it from the Bible. Bible does not say the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, but when somebody do a silly thing and sum genealogies, he may arrive to such number.

In the similar way, its possible to get from the Bible that the earth is flat.

 

[trophy33]

This does not make them scientifically true.

Its useful, its testable, its predicting what will happen, it explains what we see in the world... not sure why we should scientifically reject it (the evolutionary models).

 

[trophy33]

For me, I believe the whole book is inspired. I believe the metaphors are inspired and the literal is inspired and the formation of the book is inspired. But as with any piece of written text I take the metaphors as metaphors and the literal as literal and I don’t decide which is which I let the author do that.

For instance when I came across, “The Wolf of Wall Street” I understood that that was a metaphor however I also understood that the author’s purpose in creating the work was not a metaphor.

I also understand the structures of Hebert poetry and realize that Genesis was probably an oral tradition pass down until Moses inscribed it.

But I also am aware of key players in the new testament and their quotes of the old testament and their belief in it. And I refuse to believe that Jesus Christ, the son of God, would have been ignorant of evolution if he really was the son of God.

Cool, if you believe that metaphors can be inspired, there is no problem with a myth being inspired, then. Your problem solved.

 

[trophy33]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

Nope, a common reality, mainly in the USA. Bible is heavily misunderstood and abused there. People think they can read it intuitively, without studying its cultural background, and that there are no borders for their private imaginations.

That's a deflection from answering a few simple questions regarding what you wrote.

Its hard to answer "eh?" "what book" or "Leviathan was an animal" and similar. I did better - I gave you the learning sources everybody who is interested in the Bible should own from the beginning. I explained all those "questions" in many other posts to other YEC literalists.

Your questions show ignorance about the biblical background and commonly known concepts and genres in the Bible, thats why giving you a learning source will be more useful for you in the long run than answering few example points.

 

[ozso]

Its hard to answer "eh?"

That's an appeal to elaborate.

"what book"

That's asking you to cite a Biblical reference.

or "Leviathan was an animal" and similar.

That was a statement.

I did better - I gave you the learning sources everybody who is interested in the Bible should own from the beginning.

Your questions show ignorance about the biblical background, thats why giving you a learning source will be more useful than answering few random points.

I was seeking to get a better understanding of your understanding and interpretation.

Lets take "thinking with kidneys" and "kidneys being the center of our emotions and thoughts" for example. First translation wise kidneys and heart are interchangeable. "What does your heart tell you" "I know in my heart" "go with your gut" etc are modern day phrases.

Also the adrenal gland is part of the kidney and adrenalin affects our emotions and thoughts. Did you ever take that into consideration?

 

[ozso]

Nope, a common reality, mainly in the USA. Bible is heavily misunderstood and abused there. People think they can read it intuitively and that there are no borders for their private imaginations.

According to whom?

 

[ozso]

Its possible to get it from the Bible. Bible does not say the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, but when somebody do a silly thing and sum genealogies, he may arrive to such number.

In the similar way, its possible to get from the Bible that the earth is flat.

What is your interpretation of the genealogies in relation to their chronology?

 

[trophy33]

That's an appeal to elaborate.

That's asking you to cite a Biblical reference.

That was a statement.

I was seeking to get a better understanding of your understanding and interpretation.

Its not mine understanding, its history and culture of the bronze age in Mesopotamia.

Leviathan was a mythological creature, a symbol of chaos. It is referred in various myths, in the Bible in Isaiah, in a Psalm etc. Outside of the Bible in the Epos of Gilgamesh or in Ugaritic myth, in which Baal and Leviathan are in fight.

Kidneys were considered the center of our thinking and emotions. They considered brain to be nothing important.

 

[trophy33]

How do you interpret the genealogies in relation to their chronology?

Genealogies are not to be interpreted, they served a different purpose - they gave various ancient tribes a specific cultural identity. Of course, all lead to God/god/gods, to heavens or to something similar supernatural, in the end. All over the world, from China to Babylonia.

 

[Platte]

Its possible to get it from the Bible. Bible does not say the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, but when somebody do a silly thing and sum genealogies, he may arrive to such number.

In the similar way, its possible to get from the Bible that the earth is flat.

Summing genealogy is silly? That is how Historians have dated most civilizations. Considering the Bible gives a detailed geneaology from Adam to Christ its sensible not silly. Recorded History and the beginning of Civiliation certainly support Creation 6000 years ago.

 

[ozso]

Genealogies are not to be interpreted, they served a different purpose - they gave various ancient tribes a specific cultural identity. Of course, all lead to God/god/gods, to heavens or to something similar supernatural, in the end. All over the world, from China to Babylonia.

The genealogies in Matthew and Luke give a line of succession from Adam to Jesus. Adding up that line chronologically here today in America adds up to about 6000 years. Do you disagree with that sum and if so please explain why.

 

[ozso]

Its not mine understanding, its history and culture of the bronze age in Mesopotamia.

Leviathan was a mythological creature, a symbol of chaos. It is referred in various myths, in the Bible in Isaiah, in a Psalm etc. Outside of the Bible in the Epos of Gilgamesh or in Ugaritic myth, in which Baal and Leviathan are in fight.

The seven-headed sea monster named Lotan in the Ugaritic myth of Baal, does not resemble the the leviathan in scripture. I've come across claims like this where it's claimed (usually by those trying to discredit the Bible) that stories and references in scripture are lifted from pagan myth. But when I look into those mythologies I find that's actually not true. That the connection is tenuous at best.

Kidneys were considered the center of our thinking and emotions. They considered brain to be nothing important.

Even by today's standards the heart and mind are used interchangeably. Likewise translators vary between כִלְיֹותָֽי׃ being heart or kidney. Heart is far more commonly used.

 

[trophy33]

The seven-headed sea monster named Lotan in the Ugaritic myth of Baal, does not resemble the the leviathan in scripture. I've come across claims like this where it's claimed (usually by those trying to discredit the Bible) that stories and references in scripture are lifted from pagan myth. But when I look into those mythologies I find that's actually not true. That the connection is tenuous at best.

Well, thats your layman's opinion. People who study this area say the resemblance is there. In any case, no mythological Leviathan in the seas who will be killed by God's sword exists literally, its just a metaphorical reflection of their cultural thinking.

Even by today's standards the heart and mind are used interchangeably. Likewise translators vary between כִלְיֹותָֽי׃ being heart or kidney. Heart is far more commonly used.

Its kidneys, not heart. Its translated as heart because we call it metaphorically heart in our culture. However, both is wrong, if you want to be technical, its brain.

 

[trophy33]

Summing genealogy is silly? That is how Historians have dated most civilizations. Considering the Bible gives a detailed geneaology from Adam to Christ its sensible not silly. Recorded History and the beginning of Civiliation certainly support Creation 6000 years ago.

Unless you use the Septuagint version and you will get to 10,000. Ups.

No, historians do not date civilizations by summing their mythological genealogies, where did you get this idea from?

 

[trophy33]

The genealogies in Matthew and Luke give a line of succession from Adam to Jesus. Adding up that line chronologically here today in America adds up to about 6000 years. Do you disagree with that sum and if so please explain why.

I already said why - these genealogies are not to be summed, they are not literal. Trying to get even a literal age of the universe from them is absurd.

 

[ozso]

Well, thats your layman's opinion. People who study this area say the resemblance is there.

It sounds to me like you're going with claims without investigating their veracity.

Its kidneys, not heart. Its translated as heart because we call it metaphorically heart in our culture. However, both is wrong, if you want to be technical, its brain.

What passage are you talking about? Do you even have a passage in mind or are going with a claim that didn't bother to cite any actual passages?