How Old Is The Earth

[Platte]

Its not a day, the earths crust took millions of years to cool. Its not even debatable, all you do my friend is lose the chance to convert souls, and Satan loves that. Just because the Universe is is 13.7 billion years old does not mean we evolved. God put forth an order for creation, that oil we use comes from fossilized animals and Dinos.

The English KJV did a good job over all, but its hard translating an old language that had 4000 words. They had to use one word foe MANY THINGS then use descriptions. You know why a lot of people can not grasp a lot of the book of Revelation, Daniels horns et al. ? Because God had to use numbers in like manner. 12 mean Fulness, 10 Completeness, 8 New Beginnings, 7 Divine Completion. So, those people waiting on 10 Kings (10 Horns) will have missed it, the 10 that arise out of the fourth beasts head is Complete (10) Europe or the current E.U. matters not if it started with 8, was then 18 and is now 27 the number 10 means Complete Europe Reunited (they arise out of Old Rome (Fourth Beasts Head). Its upon us now.

The 7 Churches means the Divine Complete Church Age. The 10 Virgin bride represent ALL Christendom. So, the 144,000 is likewise a CODE. 12 X 12 X 10 X 10 X 10 = 144,000 or ALL Israel who repents. Or it really means, Completeness x Fulness. In Zech. 13:8-9 we see that 1/3 of the Jews repent, so we know the real number is like 5 million, not 144,000, God would never supply Satan with the real number that far in advance. That; s just the way the Old Testament worked.

It’s not just the KJV that translate to a normal day. All versions do including newly translated version translate as a normal day too. So you do or don’t believe that Adam evolved? Or did God create him? Btw. I very much agree with you regarding the message we tell if it’s ridiculous will push people away from God. So let’s get the message right by speaking the truth of creation and what the Bible says

 

[trophy33]

That’s one way to look at it but for me, I’d toss the book out if I thought God did not inspire and guide its creation.

Do you believe that "I am a door" is inspired?

Turning Jesus from the Son of God into a rube that believed in creation is what would happen to me if I switched my faith over to scientists when it comes to origins.

Not sure what this means. Creation is still there, we are still here. What changes is your understanding of what the book of Genesis is.

Evolution has just as many assumptions as does creation by fiat. If the evolutionary model is true then there can’t be a God as described in a book of myths.

Evolutionary models are commonly used in our daily life. There is no "YEC model" that is useful for anything.

I would not waste my time believing in a God from a book of myths.

Bible is a library of many genres - myths, legends, sagas, poetry, songs, dramas, proverbs, prophecies, apocalyptic literature, history, letters to various churches and persons etc.

How is being a good and moral person wasting your time, just because Genesis 1 is not literal, just because Leviathan is not literal or just because the earth is not flat?

Quoted and believed by all New Testament writers. If I throw the OT under the bus, the NT goes along with it.

All genres can be quoted. NT writers also quoted songs, psalms... Not sure what problem is there with quoting the OT.

Hey, if it works for you, go for it. It just doesn’t work for me.

It either works or does not work. It should be objective, not subjective.

All of the miracles in both the OT and NT fly in the face of science. They are all scientifically impossible.

Nope. Science does not judge miracles and miracles are not scientifically impossible. They are only not possible to scientifically repeat.

The best I could do if I turned the Bible into a book of myths

Bible is a library of many genres - myths, legends, sagas, poetry, songs, dramas, proverbs, prophecies, apocalyptic literature, history, letters to various churches and persons etc.

Saying Bible is a book of myths is as wrong as saying Bible is a book of proverbs.

would be to turn God into a god who was not omnipotent but needed to experiment and make mistakes to create a working model of humans. And judging by the world today, that god didn’t do so great.

Not sure what that means. Evolutionary models seem to be very effective. Creating a rigid "perfect" model in a changing environment would be quite a wrong engineering. The "model" would break quickly and die out.

Trying to marry evolution with religion would just make me nuts. But for some it seems to work.

Its not marrying evolution with religion. Religion is a specific area and evolution, too. As you do not marry cars and cooking. The important thing to realize is just that Bible is not a scientific textbook written in our times and to us - to stop misusing it in a wrong area.

 

[trophy33]

What ancient books are you comparing the Pentateuch to that would make you come to the conclusions you are stating?

The books from the same era and time. Ancient Babylonia, Egypt, Persia, Assyria... Even ancient Indian, Chinese or native nations' writings and narratives would be still closer to it in style than ours.

 

[trophy33]

The Bible was written for a single purpose

Which is not to give us a scientific description of the world.

 

[trophy33]

The books of the Bible are more of a dictation than independent thoughts.

The evidence of the variability can be seen in the vast range of various human genres, in various local styles and metaphors used in specific areas and times (who uses Leviathan in the seas today?), in various wrong understandings of the world (firmament, thinking in kidneys, not a great math), in various ways of thought of various authors, in the specific vocabulary and imagery used by specific cultures, in quite a loose canon (or no canon for millennia), textual variants and translations or simply in comparing synoptic gospels to each other.

Again, Bible did not fell from heaven yesterday, in the English form, in one printed book, without human authors, collectors, editors etc. We are very late to Bible and forcing our modern ideas into it leads you astray.

If somebody says "God dictated it but made it look like it was written in the specific styles of various people", then its not a useful theory. Its like saying God created everything yesterday but made it look like its billions of years old or that God made a flat earth, but it looks like a globe. Such thinking does not help and does not explain anything.

 

[Platte]

Which is not to give us a scientific description of the world.

Agreed but it does give a historical description of the world

 

[trophy33]

Agreed but it does give a historical description of the world

Not our modern objective historical description, but their ancient mythological historical description.

The Old Testament was not written in the USA and their concept of history differs from the modern one.

 

[trophy33]

The Bible was written using Hebrew. A very exact and precise language. People get confused today because the language we use was confused at the tower of Babel. Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel
…6And the LORD said, “If they have begun to do this as one people speaking the same language, then nothing they devise will be beyond them. 7Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.”

The Old Testament was written predominantly in the ancient form of Hebrew, the New Testament in Greek.

Not sure how precise was the ancient Hebrew compared to other ancient languages (of Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria, China, India) or what that even means. It was still a bronze age language - no matter how precise language you have, if you lack the knowledge or more advanced concepts, you must still use metaphors.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The evidence of the variability can be seen in the vast range of various human genres, in various local styles and metaphors used in specific areas and times (who uses Leviathan in the seas today?), in various wrong understandings of the world (firmament, thinking in kidneys, not a great math), in various ways of thought of various authors, in the specific vocabulary and imagery used by specific cultures, in quite a loose canon (or no canon for millennia), textual variants and translations or simply in comparing synoptic gospels to each other.

Again, Bible did not fell from heaven yesterday, in the English form, in one printed book, without human authors, collectors, editors etc. We are very late to Bible and forcing our modern ideas into it leads you astray.

If somebody says "God dictated it but made it look like it was written in the specific styles of various people", then its not a useful theory. Its like saying God created everything yesterday but made it look like its billions of years old or that God made a flat earth, but it looks like a globe. Such thinking does not help and does not explain anything.

When it comes to the Pentateuch, God spoke to Moses extensively. When it comes to the books of the Prophets, God spoke to them extensively as well.

 

[trophy33]

When it comes to the Pentateuch, God spoke to Moses extensively. When it comes to the books of the Prophets, God spoke to them extensively well.

Even if the Genesis was written by Moses (which is a tradition, not a fact), then as Moses could not receive the science of a nuclear fusion or of electricity, in the similar way he could not receive the concept of the Big Bang, of the geological processes or of biology.

He went to "school" in the ancient Egypt, not in today's Zurich.

Why do you still try to think in that way?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Even if the Genesis was written by Moses (which is a tradition, not a fact), then as Moses could not receive the science of a nuclear fusion or of electricity, in the similar way he could not receive the concept of the Big Bang of the geological processes or of biology.

Why not?

 

[trophy33]

Why not?

Why cannot you install Windows 10 on a computer from 90's?

 

[Platte]

Not our modern objective historical description, but their ancient mythological historical description.

The Old Testament was not written in the USA and their concept of history differs from the modern one.

I’ll look at it as their historical description and you can look at it as a mythological description. Either way based on the Bible the earth was created in 6 days approximately 6000 years ago.

 

[Diamond7]

Not sure how precise was the ancient Hebrew compared to other ancient languages

The Hebrew is very precise. That is why they could go hundreds and thousands of years with no copy errors.

 

[Diamond7]

Why cannot you install Windows 10 on a computer from 90's?

1. Processor Architecture: Computers from the 1990s typically used x86 processors, which may lack the necessary features and processing power required to run Windows 10. Windows 10 is designed for modern x86-64 (64-bit) processors, which have significantly more advanced instruction sets and capabilities.
2. Memory Requirements: Windows 10 has much higher memory (RAM) requirements compared to operating systems from the 1990s. It typically requires a minimum of 2 GB of RAM for the 64-bit version and 1 GB for the 32-bit version. Computers from the 1990s typically had much less memory, often measured in megabytes rather than gigabytes.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Why cannot you install Windows 10 on a computer from 90's?

Moses spent so much time with God, his face was literally radiating light. He had to wear a veil because it was too overwhelming to others to look at. It seems to me that you're working with a notion somewhere, that there are limitations as to what God is able to accomplish in and through man.

 

[Diamond7]

Even if the Genesis was written by Moses (which is a tradition, not a fact), then as Moses could not receive the science of a nuclear fusion or of electricity, in the similar way he could not receive the concept of the Big Bang, of the geological processes or of biology.

That is what makes the Bible so amazing. Moses could not have known any of that and still there are no contradictions. True Science agrees 100% with the Bible. Clearly the issue has do with our translation, interpretation and understanding of God's written word. God wants to make it very clear who is and who is not approved by Him.

"No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval." 1Corinthians 11:19

We can look at people like Charles Stanley and Billy Graham and the long life they lived preaching and teaching the word of God. If they were not approved by God they would not have lived as long as they did. They both were active for over 50 years. I have been doing this for over 40 years and who knows maybe I will make it to 50 years of service for God.

 

[Diamond7]

When it comes to the Pentateuch, God spoke to Moses extensively.

God spoke with Moses clearly not in riddles like He did the others.

Numbers 12 8 "With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

 

[Diamond7]

Agreed but it does give a historical description of the world

We have archeology to confirm the history of the Bible. Actually that is a branch of science.

 

[Diamond7]

We are very late to Bible

I am an ancestor of the Bible translator that was Bloody Mary's first martyr. So as they say it is in my blood.