VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

[keras]

The 2A occurs at the end of the Trib. Acts 1:9-11 have nothing to do with the 2A.

Acts 1:11 IS the Second Advent, the glorious Return of King Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Just as Revelation 19:11-21 also Prophesies.
NOTHING is said about any 'rapture removal' at that time. That idea is false teaching and will never happen.

Peter was speaking to Israelites.

A flat out blatant lie. 1 Peter 1:1 wrote to the Christian peoples, wherever they were.
1 Peter 4:12 is directed to his Dear friends......who were NOT the Jewish hierarchy.

the unsaved Israelites are “the elect.

Another untruth.
The Jesus rejecting Jewish Israelis, are not Gods 'elect; The Kingdom was taken from them, Matthew 21:43 and they cursed themselves. Matthew 28:25
Soon they will be punished, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Ihe idea that we Christians will be sitting in heaven while the Jews pass thru Judgment and punishment, to finally convert the Christianity, is not what is Prophesied and is not what the Bible tells us about the end times.
Only the faithful, peoples; Christians now; from every tribe, race, nation and language, will survive the last days and be with Jesus

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Acts 1:11 IS the Second Advent, the glorious Return of King Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Just as Revelation 19:11-21 also Prophesies.
NOTHING is said about any 'rapture removal' at that time. That idea is false teaching and will never happen.

A flat out blatant lie. 1 Peter 1:1 wrote to the Christian peoples, wherever they were.
1 Peter 4:12 is directed to his Dear friends......who were NOT the Jewish hierarchy.

Another untruth.
The Jesus rejecting Jewish Israelis, are not Gods 'elect; The Kingdom was taken from them, Matthew 21:43 and they cursed themselves. Matthew 28:25
Soon they will be punished, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Ihe idea that we Christians will be sitting in heaven while the Jews pass thru Judgment and punishment, to finally convert the Christianity, is not what is Prophesied and is not what the Bible tells us about the end times.
Only the faithful, peoples; Christians now; from every tribe, race, nation and language, will survive the last days and be with Jesus

As of Rev 9, only the 144k (sealed servants of God in Rev 7:3) and “the inhabitants of the earth” (Rev 3:10) are on Earth.

Rev 9:4: They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Jesus referred in Rev 3:10 to “you” (believers) as being kept from the hour of trial. He THEN cites “those who dwell on the earth” as the inhabitants of Earth. Jesus never said “you” along with “and.” Therefore, we are with Jesus, in Heaven, just as is promised in the last words of 1 Th 4:17 (ESV): … and so we will always be with the Lord.

Where is Jesus now?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Acts 1:11 IS the Second Advent, the glorious Return of King Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Just as Revelation 19:11-21 also Prophesies.
NOTHING is said about any 'rapture removal' at that time. That idea is false teaching and will never happen.

A flat out blatant lie. 1 Peter 1:1 wrote to the Christian peoples, wherever they were.
1 Peter 4:12 is directed to his Dear friends......who were NOT the Jewish hierarchy.

Another untruth.
The Jesus rejecting Jewish Israelis, are not Gods 'elect; The Kingdom was taken from them, Matthew 21:43 and they cursed themselves. Matthew 28:25
Soon they will be punished, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Ihe idea that we Christians will be sitting in heaven while the Jews pass thru Judgment and punishment, to finally convert the Christianity, is not what is Prophesied and is not what the Bible tells us about the end times.
Only the faithful, peoples; Christians now; from every tribe, race, nation and language, will survive the last days and be with Jesus

It is biblically impossible for Acts 1:11 to be about the 2A. In Acts 1:9, Jesus was in the view of believers, only. His next return must be in the view of believers, only. Jesus flawlessly achieves that in 1 Th 4:17. We won’t see Jesus until we pass through clouds. It is those heavenly clouds that keep Jesus out of sight from the unbelieving world below.

In Matt 24:30, Jesus is instantly on view for the whole world (including all the unbelievers) to see. That is 100% out of alignment with Acts 1:9. In verse 9, Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only. He MUST be seen ONLY by believers in His next return. Only 1 Th 4:17 flawlessly achieves that.

 

[keras]

As of Rev 9, only the 144k (sealed servants of God in Rev 7:3) and “the inhabitants of the earth” (Rev 3:10) are on Earth.

The 144,000 is never said to be in heaven. Their task is to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19
The inhabitants of the earth are everybody alive at that time, including the 144k.

Jesus referred in Rev 3:10 to “you” (believers) as being kept from the hour of trial. He THEN cites “those who dwell on the earth” as the inhabitants of Earth. Jesus never said “you” along with “and.”

Just your faulty opinion, made to support the wrong belief of a rapture.

It is biblically impossible for Acts 1:11 to be about the 2A.

It is impossible for Acts 1:11 to not be a prophecy about the glorious Return of King Jesus.

He MUST be seen ONLY by believers in His next return. Only 1 Th 4:17 flawlessly achieves that.

With this, you are correct. As 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 tells us. But not a Return, just an appearing.
After the Lords terrible Day of fiery wrath, Jesus will be revealed to His own people.
He will stand on Mt Zion, before His faithful Christian peoples and select the 144,000, who He will send out in pairs, the same as in Luke 10:1-12
No one goes to heaven, that idea isn't Biblical. we must do His work until He Returns to rule and reign.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The 144,000 is never said to be in heaven. Their task is to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19
The inhabitants of the earth are everybody alive at that time, including the 144k.

Just your faulty opinion, made to support the wrong belief of a rapture.

It is impossible for Acts 1:11 to not be a prophecy about the glorious Return of King Jesus.

With this, you are correct. As 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 tells us. But not a Return, just an appearing.
After the Lords terrible Day of fiery wrath, Jesus will be revealed to His own people.
He will stand on Mt Zion, before His faithful Christian peoples and select the 144,000, who He will send out in pairs, the same as in Luke 10:1-12
No one goes to heaven, that idea isn't Biblical. we must do His work until He Returns to rule and reign.

You are mixing 2A verses with rapture verses. That is faulty because they are separate events. The rapture occurs pre-Trib, and the 2A occurs after the Trib.

In the rapture, Jesus will appear only to believers, per Acts 1:9-11. We are raptured into and through clouds. We then meet Jesus in the air (1 Th 4:17). We then go to Heaven (John 14:3).

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The 144,000 is never said to be in heaven. Their task is to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19
The inhabitants of the earth are everybody alive at that time, including the 144k.

Just your faulty opinion, made to support the wrong belief of a rapture.

It is impossible for Acts 1:11 to not be a prophecy about the glorious Return of King Jesus.

With this, you are correct. As 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 tells us. But not a Return, just an appearing.
After the Lords terrible Day of fiery wrath, Jesus will be revealed to His own people.
He will stand on Mt Zion, before His faithful Christian peoples and select the 144,000, who He will send out in pairs, the same as in Luke 10:1-12
No one goes to heaven, that idea isn't Biblical. we must do His work until He Returns to rule and reign.

Jesus never touches earth in 1 Th 4:16-17:. After verse 17,

Acts 1:11 IS the Second Advent, the glorious Return of King Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Just as Revelation 19:11-21 also Prophesies.
NOTHING is said about any 'rapture removal' at that time. That idea is false teaching and will never happen.

A flat out blatant lie. 1 Peter 1:1 wrote to the Christian peoples, wherever they were.
1 Peter 4:12 is directed to his Dear friends......who were NOT the Jewish hierarchy.

Another untruth.
The Jesus rejecting Jewish Israelis, are not Gods 'elect; The Kingdom was taken from them, Matthew 21:43 and they cursed themselves. Matthew 28:25
Soon they will be punished, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Ihe idea that we Christians will be sitting in heaven while the Jews pass thru Judgment and punishment, to finally convert the Christianity, is not what is Prophesied and is not what the Bible tells us about the end times.
Only the faithful, peoples; Christians now; from every tribe, race, nation and language, will survive the last days and be with Jesus

Who was Jesus addressing in Matt 24:13? Matt 24:13 (ESV): But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

How about linking that verse to Matt 24:22 (ESV): And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

 

[keras]

You are mixing 2A verses with rapture verses. That is faulty because they are separate events. The rapture occurs pre-Trib, and the 2A occurs after the Trib.

This belief is wrong. Jesus Returns once only. He is with us Spiritually now and can be revealed to individuals or groups as He chooses.
There simply is no 'rapture to heaven' Prophesied.

Jesus never touches earth in 1 Th 4:16-17:

This is so blatantly wrong that to believe it is to open yourself to ridicule.
Paul says: The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven...... Jesus leaves heaven and comes back to the earth, as He said He would.

Who was Jesus addressing in Matt 24:13?

Everyone alive when the end times commence. No exceptions.
The time of punishment has nothing to do with it.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jesus never touches earth in 1 Th 4:16-17:. After verse 17,

Who was Jesus addressing in Matt 24:13? Matt 24:13 (ESV): But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

How about linking that verse to Matt 24:22 (ESV): And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

There is no way to link the 2A to Acts 1:11. Matt 24:30 proves that Jesus will be immediately seen by the whole world of unbelievers. That is immediately and 100% out of alignment with Acts 1:11.

In Acts 1:9, Jesus ascended by Himself, in the view of believers, only. He went behind clouds, then into Heaven.

Acts 1:11 demands the exact reverse.

In 1 Th 4:16, Jesus descends by Himself.

In 1 Th 4:17, we, together with the raised dead in Christ, pass through clouds and meet Jesus in the air.

Jesus descends into the view of believers, only.

Jesus is behind clouds during all of 1 Th 4:16–17. The world below cannot see Him. We can’t even see Him until we pass through clouds. Jesus is behind clouds during all of 1 Th 4:16-17.

Per John 14:2, Jesus had been preparing a mansion for each of us. Per John 14:3, we are taken straight to Heaven.

In John 14:2-3, Jesus is not talking about Rev 22. He’s talking about the current Heaven. The rapture can occur anytime. That definitely means Rev 22 has

Acts 1:11 IS the Second Advent, the glorious Return of King Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Just as Revelation 19:11-21 also Prophesies.
NOTHING is said about any 'rapture removal' at that time. That idea is false teaching and will never happen.

A flat out blatant lie. 1 Peter 1:1 wrote to the Christian peoples, wherever they were.
1 Peter 4:12 is directed to his Dear friends......who were NOT the Jewish hierarchy.

Another untruth.
The Jesus rejecting Jewish Israelis, are not Gods 'elect; The Kingdom was taken from them, Matthew 21:43 and they cursed themselves. Matthew 28:25
Soon they will be punished, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Ihe idea that we Christians will be sitting in heaven while the Jews pass thru Judgment and punishment, to finally convert the Christianity, is not what is Prophesied and is not what the Bible tells us about the end times.
Only the faithful, peoples; Christians now; from every tribe, race, nation and language, will survive the last days and be with Jesus

The primary purpose of the Trib is to convert Israel.

The secondary purpose is to convert all other unbelievers.

This belief is wrong. Jesus Returns once only. He is with us Spiritually now and can be revealed to individuals or groups as He chooses.
There simply is no 'rapture to heaven' Prophesied.

This is so blatantly wrong that to believe it is to open yourself to ridicule.
Paul says: The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven...... Jesus leaves heaven and comes back to the earth, as He said He would.

Everyone alive when the end times commence. No exceptions.
The time of punishment has nothing to do with it.

The 2A begins in Matt 24:30. What does Jesus do? He appears ON clouds. The whole world can see Him. Many mourn, who are unbelievers.

The 2A morphs into Jesus leading His armies into Armageddon. The AC and false prophet are tossed into the lake of fire.

Nowhere in the 2A does 1 Th 4:16-17 occur. Remember, Jesus is in Heaven when He descends in verse 16. That descent is BEHIND clouds, as proven in verse 17, where we have to pass through clouds before we can see Jesus.

The 2A and 1 Th 4:16-17 never work together. They are separate events, years apart. The 2A is for the world to see Jesus. 1 Th 4:17 proves Jesus is behind clouds and in the view of believers, only, just as what occurred in Acts 1:9.

This belief is wrong. Jesus Returns once only. He is with us Spiritually now and can be revealed to individuals or groups as He chooses.
There simply is no 'rapture to heaven' Prophesied.

This is so blatantly wrong that to believe it is to open yourself to ridicule.
Paul says: The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven...... Jesus leaves heaven and comes back to the earth, as He said He would.

Everyone alive when the end times commence. No exceptions.
The time of punishment has nothing to do with it.

1 Th 4:16 (ESV): For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Jesus descends by Himself, just as He ascended by Himself in Acts 1:9. Also, Jesus is never touching earth. Lastly, there’s no archangel present and there is no physical trumpet. There’s a continuous description of Jesus’ “cry of command,” otherwise known as His trumpet voice (see Rev 4:1 for Jesus’ trumpet voice).

1 Th 4:17 (ESV); Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

We pass through clouds and “meet the Lord in the air, so we will always be with the Lord.”

Jesus descended by Himself, behind clouds and into the view of believers, only. That completes His precise fulfillment of Acts 1:11. You cannot find that sequence in 2A verses.

Jesus never touches earth in verse 17. We are with Jesus in the air. You will ignore those facts, right?

John 14:2-3 (ESV): In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and will take you to myself, thst where I am you may be also.

Jesus will “come again to TAKE YOU (emphasis added) to myself, that where I am (“in my Father’s house”), you may be also.

We go straight to Heaven. Jesus never touches earth in 1 Th 4:16-17 and in the fulfillment of John 14:2-3. He said in verse 3, “I will come again and will TAKE YOU to myself (emphasis added).” That’s the rapture. Jesus comes again to rapture us, into Heaven.

Matt 24:31 does not say “take you to myself” or anything close to it. This could mean those “elect” are next seen in Matt 25:34-40. If not there, where do they go?

John 14:3 is the rapture. It is fulfilled by Jesus being in the view of believers, only. He NEVER touches earth, and He’s behind heavenly clouds the whole time.

None of those details match the 2A.

 

[keras]

None of those details match the 2A.

The Second Advent will be exactly as described in Acts 1:11, 1 Thess 4:16, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:11-21 and many more Prophesies.
NONE of them ever mention a rapture to heaven of His people.
Those who believe such an incredible and pretentious idea, have been deceived, taught lies and unbiblical theories.

Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:
If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer, Revelation 6:12-17 -
Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16
Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.
Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control,
Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.
Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.

Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14
But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.

Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The Second Advent will be exactly as described in Acts 1:11, 1 Thess 4:16, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:11-21 and many more Prophesies.
NONE of them ever mention a rapture to heaven of His people.
Those who believe such an incredible and pretentious idea, have been deceived, taught lies and unbiblical theories.

Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:
If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer, Revelation 6:12-17 -
Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16
Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.
Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control,
Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.
Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.

Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14
But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.

Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12

Here is what Acts 1:11 requires to be fulfilled:

Jesus ascended by Himself, in the view of believers, only. Jesus was hidden by heavenly clouds and He went Heaven.

The reverse sequence is required:

Jesus descends from Heaven by Himself (1 Th 4:16). He’s behind heavenly and He descends into the view of believers, only (1 Th 4:17).

Matt 24:30 (ESV):

The Second Advent will be exactly as described in Acts 1:11, 1 Thess 4:16, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:11-21 and many more Prophesies.
NONE of them ever mention a rapture to heaven of His people.
Those who believe such an incredible and pretentious idea, have been deceived, taught lies and unbiblical theories.

Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:
If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer, Revelation 6:12-17 -
Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16
Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.
Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control,
Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.
Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.

Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14
But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.

Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12

Here’s the beginning of the 2A in Matt 24:30 (ESV): Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Verse 30: … they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Billions of UNBELIEVERS will see Jesus immediately when the 2A starts.

Jesus is “on clouds,” so, again, billions of UNBELIEVERS will immediately see Him.

In Acts1:9 says Jesus ascended by Himself, in the view of BELIEVERS, only, He was hidden by heavenly clouds, and He went into Heaven.

The opposite way would be:

Jesus descends by Himself, hidden by heavenly clouds, into the view of believers, only.

In 1 Th 4:16, Jesus descends by Himself, being hidden from public view by heavenly clouds (proven in verse 17). In verse 17, we pass through those heavenly clouds to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will complete His descent into the view of believers, only.

The 2A does NOT follow that sequence. In fact, it violates that sequence in Matt 24:30 by Jesus being seen by the whole world of unbelievers.

The pre-Trib rapture is the NEXT prophesied event in the Bible to occur.

 

[keras]

Jesus descends from Heaven by Himself (1 Th 4:16). He’s behind heavenly and He descends into the view of believers, only

Jesus said: I will come again:.... in the clouds and every eye will see Me. Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26
He will be accompanied by the angel armies of heaven. Revelation 19:11 An earlier 'secret coming', is never Prophesied.

It's so easy to show how confused and wrong you are. The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a lie from the father of lies.

I can see where you come from with your false beliefs, everyone you know is looking for a rapture. Millions are sure it will happen.
But millions of humans wanting God to take then out of any hardship on earth, versus God, who wants to test His people. Result? Millions will fail the test of faith and God will keep those who kept their faith strong and trusted in Him, in His Kingdom. Jesus will say to the rest:
I never knew you.......

The pre-Trib rapture is the NEXT prophesied event in the Bible to occur.

The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire, is the next Prophesied event; It will change the world and commence all the end times things as Written by all the Bible Prophets.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jesus said: I will come again:.... in the clouds and every eye will see Me. Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26
He will be accompanied by the angel armies of heaven. Revelation 19:11 An earlier 'secret coming', is never Prophesied.

It's so easy to show how confused and wrong you are. The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a lie from the father of lies.

I can see where you come from with your false beliefs, everyone you know is looking for a rapture. Millions are sure it will happen.
But millions of humans wanting God to take then out of any hardship on earth, versus God, who wants to test His people. Result? Millions will fail the test of faith and God will keep those who kept their faith strong and trusted in Him, in His Kingdom. Jesus will say to the rest:
I never knew you.......

The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire, is the next Prophesied event; It will change the world and commence all the end times things as Written by all the Bible Prophets.

John 14:3 (ESV): And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”

“will take you to myself” is the rapture and that occurs in 1 Th 4:17: “Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

John 14:4 (ESV: And you know the way to where I am going.”

Acts 1:11 is “the way.” Only 1 Th 4:16-17 perfectly fulfill that very specific “way.”I’ve already proven that. I’ve also proven that it is biblically impossible for the 2A to align with Acts 1:9-11.

Acts 1:9 is about the rapture that last took Jesus to Heaven. Acts 1:11 is about the rapture that will take us to Heaven.

The pre-Trib rapture is the next prophecy to be fulfilled.

Those are my ending words on this very blessed revelation from God Almighty.

God bless!

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The Second Advent will be exactly as described in Acts 1:11, 1 Thess 4:16, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:11-21 and many more Prophesies.
NONE of them ever mention a rapture to heaven of His people.
Those who believe such an incredible and pretentious idea, have been deceived, taught lies and unbiblical theories.

Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:
If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer, Revelation 6:12-17 -
Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16
Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.
Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control,
Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.
Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.

Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14
But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.

Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12.

The Second Advent will be exactly as described in Acts 1:11, 1 Thess 4:16, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:11-21 and many more Prophesies.
NONE of them ever mention a rapture to heaven of His people.
Those who believe such an incredible and pretentious idea, have been deceived, taught lies and unbiblical theories.

Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:
If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer, Revelation 6:12-17 -
Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16
Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.
Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control,
Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.
Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.

Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14
But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.

Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12

Regarding: Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture …

Please cite a verse as the premise of your question. Thank you.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The Second Advent will be exactly as described in Acts 1:11, 1 Thess 4:16, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:11-21 and many more Prophesies.
NONE of them ever mention a rapture to heaven of His people.
Those who believe such an incredible and pretentious idea, have been deceived, taught lies and unbiblical theories.

Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:
If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

The next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer, Revelation 6:12-17 -
Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16
Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.
Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control,
Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.
Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.

Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14
But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.

Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12

Acts 1:9-11 prove that Jesus’ next return will be in the view of believers, only.

The 2A starts with unbelievers able to see Jesus. Give it up, Keras! There is NO WAY that Acts 1:11 has anything to do with the 2A.

 

[keras]

Those are my ending words on this very blessed revelation from God Almighty.

You don't even keep your own word!

Please cite a verse as the premise of your question. Thank you.

The verses proving that Gods people are present in the holy Land during the end times, are:

Revelation 12:14 & 17, Half of the Christian peoples will be kept in a safe place and the other half must stay under the beasts control, for 1260 days.
Revelation 13:7 The 'beast' was [will be] allowed to wage war on Gods people and he will defeat them........Also in Revelation 17:14, Zephaniah 14:1-2

Plus many OT Prophesies; Psalms 69:35-36....those who serve the Lord will possess the holy Land.

Acts 1:9-11 prove that Jesus’ next return will be in the view of believers, only.

It absolutely does not!
Jesus Returns only once, to come as King of Kings, to reign over the world for the next thousand years.
No one goes to heaven; Jesus said so.

Give it up, Keras!

Give it up Jeffrey! Your belief in a rapture to heaven will never happen. It is a false teaching, told to you by the wolves among the flock.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You don't even keep your own word!

The verses proving that Gods people are present in the holy Land during the end times, are:

Revelation 12:14 & 17, Half of the Christian peoples will be kept in a safe place and the other half must stay under the beasts control, for 1260 days.
Revelation 13:7 The 'beast' was [will be] allowed to wage war on Gods people and he will defeat them........Also in Revelation 17:14, Zephaniah 14:1-2

Plus many OT Prophesies; Psalms 69:35-36....those who serve the Lord will possess the holy Land.

It absolutely does not!
Jesus Returns only once, to come as King of Kings, to reign over the world for the next thousand years.
No one goes to heaven; Jesus said so.

Give it up Jeffrey! Your belief in a rapture to heaven will never happen. It is a false teaching, told to you by the wolves among the flock.

You engage in personal attacks because you can’t prove me wrong.

Your Rev 12 and 13 references are future martyrs for the GM. Do you remember Rev 20:4? That’s where the GT portion of the GM comes from. So, your Rev 12 and 13 saints are future members of the GM.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You don't even keep your own word!

The verses proving that Gods people are present in the holy Land during the end times, are:

Revelation 12:14 & 17, Half of the Christian peoples will be kept in a safe place and the other half must stay under the beasts control, for 1260 days.
Revelation 13:7 The 'beast' was [will be] allowed to wage war on Gods people and he will defeat them........Also in Revelation 17:14, Zephaniah 14:1-2

Plus many OT Prophesies; Psalms 69:35-36....those who serve the Lord will possess the holy Land.

It absolutely does not!
Jesus Returns only once, to come as King of Kings, to reign over the world for the next thousand years.
No one goes to heaven; Jesus said so.

Give it up Jeffrey! Your belief in a rapture to heaven will never happen. It is a false teaching, told to you by the wolves among the flock.

John 14:2-4, Rev 3:10 and 1 Th 1:10 prove the pre-Trib rapture. Jesus says so in those first two references, and the author of the rapture verses in 1 & 2 Thess, Apostle Paul, says so in 1 Th 1:10.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You don't even keep your own word!

The verses proving that Gods people are present in the holy Land during the end times, are:

Revelation 12:14 & 17, Half of the Christian peoples will be kept in a safe place and the other half must stay under the beasts control, for 1260 days.
Revelation 13:7 The 'beast' was [will be] allowed to wage war on Gods people and he will defeat them........Also in Revelation 17:14, Zephaniah 14:1-2

Plus many OT Prophesies; Psalms 69:35-36....those who serve the Lord will possess the holy Land.

It absolutely does not!
Jesus Returns only once, to come as King of Kings, to reign over the world for the next thousand years.
No one goes to heaven; Jesus said so.

Give it up Jeffrey! Your belief in a rapture to heaven will never happen. It is a false teaching, told to you by the wolves among the flock.

You keep citing a “Rev 6 disaster” —- Rev 6:15-17?). There’s no such thing. Those are unbelievers. The so-called citing of Jesus’ face (Rev 6:16) is from an unidentified source. It’s from an unbeliever. Therefore, how credible is it? You are falling for a deception!

The GT doesn't start in Rev 6. The GT starts after the 7th trumpet.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You don't even keep your own word!

The verses proving that Gods people are present in the holy Land during the end times, are:

Revelation 12:14 & 17, Half of the Christian peoples will be kept in a safe place and the other half must stay under the beasts control, for 1260 days.
Revelation 13:7 The 'beast' was [will be] allowed to wage war on Gods people and he will defeat them........Also in Revelation 17:14, Zephaniah 14:1-2

Plus many OT Prophesies; Psalms 69:35-36....those who serve the Lord will possess the holy Land.

It absolutely does not!
Jesus Returns only once, to come as King of Kings, to reign over the world for the next thousand years.
No one goes to heaven; Jesus said so.

Give it up Jeffrey! Your belief in a rapture to heaven will never happen. It is a false teaching, told to you by the wolves among the flock.

My rapture instruction comes from Jesus (John 14:2-4 and Rev 3:10). Jesus says we are raptured pre-Trib.

Your Rev 12 and 13 references are future unbelievers who later are converted in the Trib and become martyrs. Rev 20:4 is where they find their home: under the altar in Heaven. They are resurrected in the last sentence of Rev 20:4 and thereby complete “the full number” cited in Rev 6:11 (NIV).

 

[keras]

You engage in personal attacks because you can’t prove me wrong.

I have not attacked you personally, only your wrong beliefs.

Your Rev 12 and 13 references are future martyrs for the GM. Do you remember Rev 20:4? That’s where the GT portion of the GM comes from.

Yes, the martyrs killed during the Great Trib, in the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, will come from those mentioned in Revelation 12:17
But the people in Rev 13:7, are all God's people in the holy Land, before the GT. This conquering of them is Prophesied by Zechariah 14:1-2

It will be after they are conquered, that they are divided into 2 groups as per Rev 12:14 & 17 and Daniel 11:32

You keep citing a “Rev 6 disaster” —- Rev 6:15-17?). There’s no such thing

It is in the Bible; in over 100 graphically described Prophesies that tell how the Lord will once again reset our civilization; similar to what He did in the days of Noah.
Is it not plain to you that there has to be some kind of dramatic event to commence the end times Prophesies? It won't be a 'rapture to heaven". Nowhere does the Bible say that, it says: We must endure until the end.

Those are unbelievers. The so-called citing of Jesus’ face (Rev 6:16) is from an unidentified source.

What pretentious nonsense!
The Word of Jesus in Revelation says: those ungodly peoples will cry out for help as they dive for cover, knowing they are experiencing Gods wrath.

My rapture instruction comes from Jesus (John 14:2-4 and Rev 3:10). Jesus says we are raptured pre-Trib.

Rather desperate now! I have refuted those verses, they do not even mention heaven.
What Jesus said 6 times, was that for people to go to live in heaven, was impossible.