Of course you know about the religious right...

[The Barbarian]

But given they already are and a significant amount of case law and bureaucracy has developed around that situation, the easier thing would be for groups which don't want to partake to just choose a different name for it. Religious union, perhaps?

I think it's too late to fix it to everyone's satisfaction. I think we should all just leave each other alone.

 

[KCfromNC]

I think it's too late to fix it to everyone's satisfaction. I think we should all just leave each other alone.

I don't see much (serious) call for getting religion to change the conditions for religious marriage.
Religious groups trying to interfere with secular marriages, on the other hand...

 

[Astrid]

What wrong with traditional Christian values and wanting to preserve life?

Depends on the traditional values.
Some are nothing good or admirable
by any reasonable standard.

 

[RileyG]

Depends on the traditional values.
Some are nothing good or admirable
by any reasonable standard.

Yes.

 

[RileyG]

Seems weird to connect political correctness on a very specific topic with religious faithfulness, but then again can't say I'm surprised.

This has nothing to do with political correctness.

 

[rjs330]

Your implication was that those who do are not faithful. And does your experience include Greece? That was your claim. By and large.

Yes, you can absolutely call them not faithful if they are going against the doctrines of their faith. To be faithful means you support the doctrines and teachings of your faith.

And if you are a member of the Greek Orthodox Church and support SSM, you are not faithful to the Church and it's teaching. Because the Greek Church still calls homosexuality a sin and does not support SSM.

Greece becomes first Orthodox Christian country to legalise same-sex marriage

Greece's parliament has approved a bill allowing same-sex couples the right to wed and adopt children after decades of campaigning by the LGBT community for marriage equality in the socially conservative country.

www.abc.net.au

 

[rjs330]

Reads a lot like "everyone who agrees with me agrees with me, and those who don't have something wrong with them". Not exactly a compelling argument.

Not at all. Its all about the doctrines and beliefs, teachings of the Church. If you do not support or believe in the teaching of the church and directly oppose it, you are being heretical. Which in essence is being unfaithful. Unfaithful to the Church.

 

[rjs330]

It was by a 176 to 76 vote of the Greek Parliament..

So it wasn't a religious decision. It was a secular one that went directly against the teaching of the Church.

 

[IceJad]

...but what about the Christian left?

Christian left leaders launch national campaign to mobilize voters ahead of 2024 election

Left-leaning religious and civil rights leaders have launched a 30-state campaign they say will wake the sleeping giant and mobilize over 15 million poor and low-income voters ahead of the 2024

www.christianpost.com

What is a Christian left? A misnomer in all its sense. Christians full stop. We all follow one ideal - God's. I don't affix my political leaning to my faith. My faith may guide my political ideology but never the other way around.

If people want to mobilize to vote let them but keep faith out of it. Render unto Caesar what is his' and to God His'. We while living in this world is not of this world.

 

[Whyayeman]

What is a Christian left? A misnomer in all its sense. Christians full stop. We all follow one ideal - God's. I don't affix my political leaning to my faith. My faith may guide my political ideology but never the other way around.

If people want to mobilize to vote let them but keep faith out of it. Render unto Caesar what is his' and to God His'. We while living in this world is not of this world.

I remember one prominent Christian who was a leading Methodist, Donald Soper. He was a prominent socialist as well and became a member of our Upper House (the House of Lords). He said that the Brotherhood of Man (sic) was founded in the Fatherhood of God.

I have never thought that the 'render unto Caesar' quote helped much to advance discussion in political contexts.

Donald Soper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[KCfromNC]

This has nothing to do with political correctness.

It's literally determining if a believer is really a believer by verifying the correctness of their political viewpoint on one specific subject.

 

[KCfromNC]

Not at all. Its all about the doctrines and beliefs, teachings of the Church. If you do not support or believe in the teaching of the church and directly oppose it, you are being heretical.

Does this apply to anyone who disagrees with any teaching of the church in any way? Seems like the pews are going to be pretty empty if 100% unquestioning acceptance is the litmus test.

 

[BPPLEE]

if a person thinks they were "born into the wrong body" it is mental illness

and drag queens who want to involve themselves with children should be looked at with suspicion.

A man wearing a dress that wants to be around children should be a red flag.

 

[Astrid]

What is a Christian left? A misnomer in all its sense. Christians full stop. We all follow one ideal - God's. I don't affix my political leaning to my faith. My faith may guide my political ideology but never the other way around.

If people want to mobilize to vote let them but keep faith out of it. Render unto Caesar what is his' and to God His'. We while living in this world is not of this world.

Are you sure all Christians have the
same ideals? There seem to be a
lot of conflicting versions opinions
about what the Bible is saying.

Some even think voting for someone who endorses
their version of christianity is following gods will.

Like voting against an atheist.

 

[BCP1928]

So it wasn't a religious decision. It was a secular one that went directly against the teaching of the Church.

What teaching of the Church requires us to criminalize a Christian sin for the non-Christian citizens of a secular state?

 

[RoBo1988]

It's literally determining if a believer is really a believer by verifying the correctness of their political viewpoint on one specific subject.

That goes both ways (right and left) don't you think?

 

[BCP1928]

That goes both ways (right and left) don't you think?

No, I don't. There are certainly more accusations of apostasy coming from the right than from the left.

For example, it has been asserted in this discussion that it is Christian teaching that we must criminalize Christian sins for non-Christian citizens of a secular state. I don't find that to be a Christian teaching, but It does not cause me to doubt the faith of those who are making the assertion.

 

[Whyayeman]

To be faithful means you support the doctrines and teachings of your faith.

That is not what I was taught (even though I have long ago rejected the teachings of the Church I was brought up in). I was taught that faith was faith in God, not in the teaching of any institution.

The Greek Orthodox congregation can accept same sex marriage whatever the bishops tell them. Similarly Catholics in Ireland voted with their consciences, against the teachings coming from the pulpits.

 

[BCP1928]

So it wasn't a religious decision. It was a secular one that went directly against the teaching of the Church.

I'm still at a loss about that teaching you keep referring to. What teaching says that we must not allow a secular state to issue same-sex civil marriages to its non-Christian citizens?

 

[Whyayeman]

No, I don't. There are certainly more accusations of apostasy coming from the right than from the left.

For example, it has been asserted in this discussion that it is Christian teaching that we must criminalize Christian sins for non-Christian citizens of a secular state. I don't find that to be a Christian teaching, but It does not cause me to doubt the faith of those who are making the assertion.

I agree. Bigots frequently exhibit exemplary faith.

In any case if legislatures are able to pass religious laws the state is not secular - by definition. I have observed the hankering after a theocracy by posters here on CF.