Profitable store closed due to crime

[ozso]

To clarify, I'm describing two different groups of people:

There are folks on here alleging to be scientists. I have not verified their identities, but I've found no reason to doubt them, just as I've not found reason to doubt many other folks touting themselves as lawyers, engineers, health care professionals, etc.

There are also scientists whom I know personally. I live in Baltimore, so our church and other social circles include a lot of people doing research at Hopkins.

Do you spend time with them outside of seeing them in church or at a social event?

 

[RoBo1988]

In-N-Out location to close over ‘issues of ongoing crime’

An In-N-Out Burger location that’s been open for 18 years has decided to close its doors for good in the coming months, citing “issues of ongoing crime.” Chief Operating Officer D…

ktla.com

Same news, different source

 

[iluvatar5150]

Do you spend time with them outside of seeing them in church or at a social event?

On occasion, yes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Crime is down. That is a fact.

I wouldn't be so certain.

The economy is doing better. That is a fact.

How so?

Prices are still very high and outpace income for the average person.

Do you mean the economy is better than it was in 2021?

There is income inequality, but the policies of the Right actually don't help reduce it.

Is the left even interested in income inequality?

And to make matters worse, most of the wealthy donors to the Right, like the Koch brothers or fossil fuel companies, don't have any interest in addressing income inequality, either.

Nor do big donors on the left. Did you think the Democrats switched to identity politics for fun?

There are real issues this country faces, like climate change

That is a real issue. Let me know when some solutions are on the table.

and the lack of sustainable national transportation policy

I think the Amish have that solved.

or land developement,

Huh?

or the national obesity pandemic,

Ozempic.

are not being addressed because the Right distracts the political conversation onto nothingburgers about the supposed dangers of trans people using the women's restrooms, or trying to tell women what to do with their bodies through Big Brother style taOlympic.

Is that really what you think is happening?

The "right" made "trans bathrooms" an "issue"...not the left?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The left made a lot of noise about decreasing law enforcement, but the reality in most places didn't live up to their visions.

True. Though their actions have created cop shortages in many places and standards have been lowered and cash incentives offered to help find new recruits.

On the side of legislation, removing cash bail for non-violent offenses and increasing the amount of stolen goods before shoplifting is a serious crime do seem to have some direct effects.

AFAIK, decriminalizing drug use isn't about reducing drug use; it's about reducing the total amount of harm created by using and trafficking drugs.

The unclear part of this is how "harm" is being measured.

Decriminalizing drugs hasn't gone well for Portland.

If you're seriously arguing that anecdotes are better than data, then I don't think there's anything anybody here could say to convince you to understand things better and there's really no point in engaging with you. In that case, you're just choosing to be wrong.

Funny....I made this point years ago when the left called their anecdotes "lived experiences" and they were treated as facts.

 

[rjs330]

I notice a trend of partisans posting of negative news stories about crime and the economy, when the national data doesn't back it up. That's not to say this country doesn't have real problems, but the right wing mediasphere isn't focusing on them. Perhaps because they would have to acknowledge how their wealthy donors are often part of the problem.

You don't mean the national data that not complete do you? Or perhaps inaccurate? How much crime isn't being reported because people know the police won't do anything? Aren't you guys the ones that talk about the crime that isn't being reported in the immigrant population because people are afraid to report it?

Crime in these areas are still going strong. These businesses are shutting down BECAUSE of the crime. What part of that aren't you getting?

In fact there is evidence for what some of us are saying. People are reporting the crimes. As much as 42%.

Is violent crime up in urban and rural areas?

Last year, there were 6.6 million violent victimizations of people 12 or older in the U.S., up 40% from 2021, per the National Crime Victimization Survey.

www.newsnationnow.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-10-16/fbi-report-violent-crime-decreases-to-pre-pandemic-levels-but-property-crime-is-on-the-rise

 

[rjs330]

I agree! But it seems less than honest to say its done for customers and employees safety - the same customers and soon-to-be-unemployed persons who will continue to live among that violence, just without hamburgers.

So a business in a crime ridden area that is unsafe for its people should just stay open to serve hamburgers? The customers and employees are less safe there than on the street because criminals go there to rob, steal and assault people. It's a flashpoint.

 

[rjs330]

By the way I wonder just how much crime is acceptable for you folks.

Let's just say that crime trends are down. Down from what? We had a large trend upward for a couple of years. And if the left is to be believed it's dropping. Dropping to what? Well it appears it's going down to pre-covid levels? Does anyone think that pre-covid was good?

 

[FireDragon76]

By the way I wonder just how much crime is acceptable for you folks.

Let's just say that crime trends are down. Down from what? We had a large trend upward for a couple of years. And if the left is to be believed it's dropping. Dropping to what? Well it appears it's going down to pre-covid levels? Does anyone think that pre-covid was good?

You seem to be attacking straw men.

Nobody said crime was good. The notion that crime is going up nationwide, though, is completely false.

 

[Tuur]

By the way I wonder just how much crime is acceptable for you folks.

Traditionally, it's crime that affects someone else.

 

[Laodicean60]

Traditionally, it's crime that affects someone else.

I think you are right. Out of sight out of mind and some people post averages that do show crime going down. But if you look at certain crimes and where they're happening those people feel that crime isn't going down. If you look at the data, property crime has gone up, violent/ murder is down, and crime in some big cities is up, and what is remarkable is that crime is up in all areas in the West. The right wing is exposed to the murders in Chicago but this chart shows that the murders are down.

It does affect someone else depending on where you live, If you are unfortunate to live in these areas you are exposed to more media on crime.

U.S. Crime Rates and Trends — Analysis of FBI Crime Statistics

The FBI’s latest report on crime trends includes 2023 data for national, regional, and local levels.

www.brennancenter.org

 

[Tuur]

It does affect someone else depending on where you live, If you are unfortunate to live in these areas you are exposed to more media on crime.

Where you live exposes you to more crime. That's in crime that happens to you and those you know. And when a business says it's closing because of crime, there is no reason not to take them at their word.

Of course, if someone wishes to test that, they can park there car in front of the closed business, leave their keys inside, and walk off and see what happens.

 

[iluvatar5150]

By the way I wonder just how much crime is acceptable for you folks.

Let's just say that crime trends are down. Down from what? We had a large trend upward for a couple of years. And if the left is to be believed it's dropping. Dropping to what? Well it appears it's going down to pre-covid levels? Does anyone think that pre-covid was good?

Violent and nonviolent crime had been steadily dropping since the early 90's:

U.S. Crime Rates and Trends — Analysis of FBI Crime Statistics

The FBI’s latest report on crime trends includes 2023 data for national, regional, and local levels.

www.brennancenter.org

Murders bottomed out in 2013-2014 and then rose for a couple years while other violent crimes flattened out after 2014 and property crime continued declining.

Whether that level was "good" is a matter of opinion, but it is a fact that, nationally, crime is close to the lowest it's been in over 30 years.

The official FBI data cited in the Brennan Center link only goes out to 2022, but early numbers show that the number of murders fell drastically in 2023, suggesting that the overall murder rate in 2023 was back down to about what it was in 2019:

Homicide numbers poised to hit a record decline nationwide. But most Americans think murder is on the rise

With less than a week to go in 2023, the nation is poised to finish the year with its biggest yearly drop in homicides on record.

abcnews.go.com

 

[RoBo1988]

I would say the store was due for renovations, and weighing out the trend in the neighborhood (the DM called the area the most dangerous block in America) , with the thefts, carjackings etc, versus investing more money, they decided to pull up stakes.

The store had been there for 18 years, which isn't that long - there's a McDonald's in my area that's pushing 50 years in its location.

But for the mayor to blow off In and Out's announcement is just covering for her lack of leadership.

 

[rjs330]

You seem to be attacking straw men.

Nobody said crime was good. The notion that crime is going up nationwide, though, is completely false.

Not by victim rates and not by research that states how many crimes go unreported now.

 

[rjs330]

Violent and nonviolent crime had been steadily dropping since the early 90's:

U.S. Crime Rates and Trends — Analysis of FBI Crime Statistics

The FBI’s latest report on crime trends includes 2023 data for national, regional, and local levels.

www.brennancenter.org

Murders bottomed out in 2013-2014 and then rose for a couple years while other violent crimes flattened out after 2014 and property crime continued declining.

Whether that level was "good" is a matter of opinion, but it is a fact that, nationally, crime is close to the lowest it's been in over 30 years.

The official FBI data cited in the Brennan Center link only goes out to 2022, but early numbers show that the number of murders fell drastically in 2023, suggesting that the overall murder rate in 2023 was back down to about what it was in 2019:

Homicide numbers poised to hit a record decline nationwide. But most Americans think murder is on the rise

With less than a week to go in 2023, the nation is poised to finish the year with its biggest yearly drop in homicides on record.

abcnews.go.com

Crime is still a problem. People know it. It's not safe in many areas despite murders dropping. Just because murders are dropping doesn't mean everything is good now. Other crimes are up. Victim rates show a higher crime rate as does non-reported crime. I took a trip to Chicago recently and the cab driver told us how bad crime was there and Chicago wasn't safe in many places. We stayed away from those areas and were very careful where we went at night.

 

[FireDragon76]

Not by victim rates and not by research that states how many crimes go unreported now.

Please demonstrate the evidence for this research.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Crime is still a problem. People know it. It's not safe in many areas despite murders dropping. Just because murders are dropping doesn't mean everything is good now. Other crimes are up. Victim rates show a higher crime rate as does non-reported crime. I took a trip to Chicago recently and the cab driver told us how bad crime was there and Chicago wasn't safe in many places. We stayed away from those areas and were very careful where we went at night.

Lots of cities have areas that aren't safe. I live in Baltimore, which has one of the highest murder rates in the country, but my neighborhood rarely has to deal with anything more than porch pirates and minor property damage. But the existence of bad areas doesn't speak to overall trends nor whether your should feel more or less safe now than you did 5, 10, or 20 years ago.

 

[KCfromNC]

I think you are right.

It's weird, the strawman was identified several posts ago and yet we have a continued discussion based on that falsehood. An insight into how conservative memes spread?

 

[rjs330]

Please demonstrate the evidence for this research.

I already did.