The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday.

[HIM]

It appears Israelites were not able to keep the command and when I was a Sabbath observer I and everyone I knew was not able to attain the standards required.

For one you don't know anything but what you think in respect to others.
And in respect to the Sabbath. You had an issue with not working? Or is it that you and your Contemporaries never received the rest in Christ so you couldn't keep the day Holy?

 

[trophy33]

As did Jesus.

Jesus referred to biblical texts and used them theologically, but He never explicitly said whether He accepts evolution or not. So there is no point in speculating.

Evolution is a scientific model for the mechanism of how all bodies (not just ours) evolve (or devolve) in time. Its not a theological matter and as such had no relation to Jesus' mission of salvation.

 

[Studyman]

Wrong SB, Read Col 2 without your Ellen glasses on and you will find in that chapter that indeed Paul stated that the Sabbath was a shadow and Jesus is our reality. In Gal 3:19 Paul tells us that the Law ended. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Fascinating religious philosophy. So then, in the religion you have adopted, and are now promoting to others, God "ADDED" a Commandment to EVE, "because she Transgressed" God's Commandment? Of course, this is complete foolishness, why would you even promote such a thing.

There was no need for a Sacrifice for Transgressions, before Eve Transgressed God's commandment. God's Law was already set forth. "In the Day that you eat that which I commanded not to eat, you shall die". Where was the SIN you preach to the world prompted God to ADD the commandment regarding the Tree in the midst of the garden? It didn't exist.

So even a child can see there was no NEED for a "LAW" to provide for forgiveness of Transgression, until someone transgresses. Therefore, God's Law defining righteousness, comes first. The God's Law providing mercy for the unrighteous, is ADDED. That's why it is called in the Holy Scriptures, "Past sins". In Paul's letter to the Galatians, there were Pharisees promoting certain "Works of the Law" for the remission of Past sins. It is easy to find out what LAW was "ADDED" that was put in place by God Specifically to provide for the forgiveness of "Transgressions", by simply asking the question, "When a man Transgressed in Moses Time, what "LAW" Did God give them to provide for remission of their Transgression? You can read Lev. 4 to find this truth, but "many", who come in Christ's Name, refuse to acknowledge it.

But for others reading along, AFTER men "Transgressed" God's commandment defining what is Good, Holy, Just and Clean, and is now guilty of "SIN", A LAW was ADDED for the express purpose of removing the Transgression. This LAW commanded that a man offer from his possession, or purchase for his Transgression, Clean, sinless, innocent Blood, give it to God's appointed Priest, who would then offer it to God to provide for the remission of their "Transgressions".

This "ADDED" Law was to be in place, "Till the SEED", or more plainly, until the sinless, innocent Blood of the Prophesied Messiah, "The Lamb of God" should come. HE would then offer HIS Blood (Life) once and for all, to pay the dept "Thou shall surely die", of those who Transgressed. So after HE came, there is no more need for the Old Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law", for the remission of Sins, as this LAW was only "ADDED" Till the SEED should come. This was all prophesied in the Law and Prophets, which Jesus Fulfilled at His Arrival. This is the LAW Paul was speaking about in Gal. 3. Abraham didn't have this "LAW", it wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after God said Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

God's LAW, "The soul that sins shall die", is still here today. Paul says so.

Rom. 6: 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye "yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of "sin" unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

How is this any different that it was with Eve? And does Paul say the "unrighteous" inherits the Kingdom of God. Or the "Doers" of the Law of God, or as HE also calls them, "Servants of God's Righteousness"?

The deceiver would have us believe, as it convinced Eve, that God's Law defining Good, Holy, Just, Clean and Righteousness, are no longer necessary, as your post clearly promotes. That God's LAW defining Good, Holy, Just, Clean and Righteousness was also "ADDED" because of Transgression, and therefore also became obsolete at the advent of the Christ "of the Bible". That in the day you Transgress them, "THEN" you shall be as gods, and you shall surely not die.

Don't be deceived by these "many" who come in Christ's Name, who call HIM Lord, Lord but promote such foolishness.

Where there is LAW, there is Lawlessness. Where there is no Law, there is no Lawlessness. Look around you. Consider looking at scriptures without your Pope's glasses on.

 

[trophy33]

Where there is LAW, there is Lawlessness. Where there is no Law, there is no Lawlessness. Look around you. Consider looking at scriptures without your Pope's glasses on.

Its the Mosaic Law that ended. The Mosaic Law was the point in the context of Paul.

We still have many laws (as humans, as Christians or as citizens of our countries), so no Mosaic law does not equal to no law at all - anarchism.

The Mosaic law was a specific law given to specific people for a specific purpose and for a specific period of time. Reading the letter to Galatians will give you more detail.

 

[HIM]

Jesus referred to biblical texts

Therefore supported them as truth. God is not the Author of confusion.

 

[trophy33]

Therefore supported them as truth. God is not the Author of confusion.

Thats right. You just do not understand the kind of the truth - theological. Not necessarily scientific or literal.

 

[HIM]

Thats right. You just do not understand the kind of the truth - theological.

You have no idea what we understand.

Not necessarily scientific or literal.

If God through Jesus said it is true.
Did God through man pen the Holy Writ? Or was Paul and Peter lying? Did Moses receive the Books he penned through God on the Mount. Or is Moses Lying? Or did God lie to Moses.

So is the writer through God is lying here in Hebrews?
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[Studyman]

It appears Israelites were not able to keep the command and when I was a Sabbath observer I and everyone I knew was not able to attain the standards required.

Perhaps you would be better served allowing God to define the Standards, and not the religious men of this world who "come in Jesus Name" that HE warned us about.

How can you say Caleb and Joshua were not able to keep God's Sabbaths? Can you name ONE Example of Faith in the Bible that it is written was not able to keep God's Sabbath? In your religion, was Zacharias, Simeon and Anna also not able to keep God's Sabbath?

While it is true there were "many" in Israel who profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. And it is written these fell in the Wilderness and were not allowed into the Promised Land. Paul said these were examples to show God's People in our time, not to Lust after what they lusted after.

There were also those whose "Refuge was the Lord", who "Yielded themselves" Servants to Obey Him, who became "Servant of God's Righteousness" as Paul also teaches. These, according to Paul, were "Doers" of the Law, not just hearers.

So it is simply a falsehood to teach others that Israelites couldn't keep God's Sabbaths. Sure, "many" who professed to know God, repaid His Kindness and mercy

Duet. 32:12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him. 13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock; 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.

With dishonor and rebellion;

15. But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. (Caleb and Joshua and others who honored God with respect and obedience) 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

While it is true, they "said" they obeyed God's Sabbath Commandment, they were really walking in their own religious traditions as the Prophets and the Jesus of the Bible points out.

Ez. 20: 10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.


But the Israelite from the Heart, Caleb and Joshua, had a different Spirit in them, and they walked in God's Sabbaths just as Jesus did. At least, if a person believes ALL that is written.

 

[trophy33]

You have no idea what we understand.

Not sure who is "we", I am talking about you, personally.

Did God through man penned the Holy Writ?

No, inspiration is not dictation.

Was XYZ lying?

No, its not a lie to use a story to teach a moral point. You just do not understand where the limits of such stories are.

 

[Studyman]

Its the Mosaic Law that ended. The Mosaic Law was the point in the context of Paul.

We still have many laws (as humans, as Christians or as citizens of our countries), so no Mosaic law does not equal to no law at all - anarchism.

The Mosaic law was a specific law given to specific people for a specific purpose and for a specific period of time. Reading the letter to Galatians will give you more detail.

That is a popular and seductive religious philosophy which exists in this world God placed us in. But it's Not Paul's teaching, nor that of the Jesus of the Bible's teaching.

Instead of answering my post with your opinions, why not address what it actually says and consider the Words of God provided therein?

And I understand the religious practice of using one verse to make void or irrelevant another verse, and the RCC and her many daughters use Galatians to make void much of Jesus, and Paul's and Peter's teaching, not to mention the Law and the Prophets which Jesus Himself said to His People not to even "Think" HE came to abolish.

Why do "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, do this in the world we were placed in? For the same reason the serpent was placed in the garden God also placed Eve in. There is a cost regarding the Salvation of God to the people on this earth. It's much easier to just pick a popular religious sect, and adopt their views, than to "deny oneself, pick up our lives experiences and follow the Christ of the Bible". And there are "many" who preach in His Name, that HE doesn't know. My hope in that men might consider "ALL" of what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches, as well as His Apostles, and the Prophets that God also Sent.

And truly those who fall on this Christ are broken.

 

[trophy33]

Instead of answering my post with your opinions, why not address what it actually says and consider the Words of God provided therein?

I was answering your opinions with my opinions, thats how forums work.

When you post several opinions in one post, its my freedom to choose for example just the last one to react to, which is what I did. You can make your posts shorter with just one thought/point, if you do not like when people choose something else from your post than what you would prefer.

 

[HIM]

No, its not a lie to use a story to teach a moral point. You just do not understand where the limits of such stories are.

Once again you have no idea what we understand.

The issue with your pick and choose what is true and what is an allegory is it doesn't stop with the narrative of creation or any of the other things mentioned. It subjective and is dependent upon one's own whims. So what might be true for one isn't for another throughout the entire Bible.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


Through Satan we understand differently.

 

[trophy33]

Once again you have no idea what we understand.

I am talking about you, personally. You do not understand even what the Bible is or how it came to be.

The issue with your pick and choose what is true and what is an allegory is it doesn't stop with the narrative of creation or any of the other things mentioned. It subjective and is dependent upon one's own whims. So what might be true for one isn't for another throughout the entire Bible.

Its not a random picking and choosing based on how somebody slept tonight. When we learn the scientific truth about our history, we can safely deduce (because truth does not contradict truth), that its not the science the biblical stories we talk about taught.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Through Satan we understand differently.

Yes, all Christians believe that the ages/worlds were created by Christ. Your point being?

 

[Studyman]

I was answering your opinions with my opinions, thats how forums work.

When you post several opinions in one post, its my freedom to choose for example just the last one to react to, which is what I did. You can make your posts shorter with just one thought/point, if you do not like when people choose something else from your post than what you would prefer.

I'm not into religious bumper stickers or religious talking points. Neither was Jesus and Paul. You have adopted the seductive and popular religious philosophy of this world, that the "Mosiac Law", which you fail to acknowledge is God's Law that HE gave mankind, according to Paul "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." Has been abolished.

But when I go to the Jesus "of the Bible" and I tell Him, "Jesus, there is a voice in the garden you placed me in, telling me your Fathers Laws that you walked in are "Abolished" is this true? And the Light of the World shines on this doctrine for me as HE replies "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And as Peter teaches. Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hey there SabbathBlessings Happy Sabbath,
Hence why the Judgements are not said to be in our hearts and mouths in Deut. 30:10-14 in respect to the New Covenant given prior to Israel entering into the promised land. It was a reality then as it is now. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



Sin in verses 1:8 and 9 is a noun not a verb. We all have sin. Our tempers, passions and what not. We are to confess, assent to our Lord Father God before they become a verb. As the temptation, sin becomes temptation, we give it, confess, plead unto the Lord and He is faithful to take away our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness so it does not become a verb, the action. And if any one does sin, the verb we have a helper with the Father Jesus Christ our Lord. However, to many are now crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to open shame. It is just as bad as the continual offerings back in the time prior to Christ which the Lord abhorred as He does now, the vain sacrifice coming from our lips. For if we are willfully sinning after we receive the knowledge of the truth, The fact that we who have been sanctified are perfected forever, having His laws in our hearts and minds, to succor us when we are tempted. Having step through the vale that is His flesh being in the presence God. There remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries, those who are sinning willfully.

Sorry, maybe I am a little slow, but can you explain what part of my post you are disagreeing with.

 

[HIM]

I was answering your opinions with my opinions, thats how forums work.

When you post several opinions in one post, its my freedom to choose for example just the last one to react to, which is what I did. You can make your posts shorter with just one thought/point, if you do not like when people choose something else from your post than what you would prefer.

posting an opinion without dealing with showing the error in the post to which one responds to is inane and not how forums SHOULD work. But that seems to be the standard

Its not a random picking and choosing based on how somebody slept tonight. When we learn the scientific truth about our history, we can safely deduce (because truth does not contradict truth), that its not the science the biblical stories we talk about taught.

Well first thing first. Science says that a man such as Lazarus could not possibly be resurrected after 3 days. And With that Jesus resurrection isn't possible either. So how is it you profess to be a Christian?

Tabatha being resurrected, science says no?


Shall we talk about Jesus turning water to wine? It just isn't possible without adding things to it physically science says

Maybe you wish to speak on the fact that healing someone by laying on of hands or speaking over them isn't possible either science says?

Or maybe barren women who are past the age of child birth being spoken of in the Holy Writ to be barren but having children.

Or a woman such as Mary given birth without having sexual relations with a man?

Or the feeding of the 5000?

Walking on water?

Being saved by a whale?

The feeding of 3 people by rations that were already not enough to last the day?

A pillar fire for 40m years

God has said let us make man in our image and after our likeness in a day. Yet Science says we were made less than we are today and evolved into something better. Sadly though when there should be countless specimens so that we can see this evolution we have none. We have thicker boned human finds. Which if anything shows us to be more durable than we are today. But at the end of the day they are human. And if they show anything we declined in stature, devolved not evolved..

God said He spoke the world and the things of it into existence in a week. Science says a big bang happened and all was formed randomly by chance through millions of years.

Would you like to talk about the odds of that happening according to science?

So yes your philosophy is subject the subjective whim of an individual?

Yes, all Christians believe that the ages/worlds were created by Christ. Your point being?

First there is an order put forth in Hebrews 11. After this verse it speaks, of Abel. Enoch, Noah and so forth. So with that understood, it is Worlds not ages. And secondly the verse says the worlds where not made by things which do appear. In other words, what we see isn't how we got to where we are. (so much for science) We and the Worlds are because we were framed by the Word of God on Creation week. TO believe and teach otherwise is against Scripture and a lie and therefore of Satan the father of lies

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[trophy33]

...that the "Mosiac Law", which you fail to acknowledge is God's Law that HE gave mankind...

Just read the story of how the Mosaic Law was given. You will see it was given to people of Israel as a set of instruction of how to live in the land of Palestine they were prepared to enter.

You can find it several times throughout the book of Deuteronomy, for example:

Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3It was not with our ancestors a that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
Dt 5:1-3

"These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess"
(Dt 6:1)

Really, read the Mosaic Law first, so that you know the basics of it, to be more able to talk about it.

 

[trophy33]

posting an opinion without dealing with showing the error in the post to which one responds to is inane and not how forums SHOULD work. But that seems to be the standard

Which is not what happened.

Well first thing first. Science says that a man such as Lazarus could not possibly be resurrected after 3 days. And With that Jesus resurrection isn't possible either. So how is it you profess to be a Christian?

These are called miracles. Miracle means that its supernatural, against the laws of nature.

While you are arguing for an interpretation of texts which does not correspond to reality. Its not a miracle, its a misunderstanding.

 

[HIM]

Sorry, maybe I am a little slow, but can you explain what part of my post you are disagreeing with.

Hey there SabbathBlessings.
The text in Deut 30:10-14 show us that judgments are not. The judgments being those to which dealt with us when we sinned (the priesthood and it's ministry.). Your post says that those judgements were also placed in the hearts of the people unless I am misreading it.


Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

The way I understand it God wrote all of His law in the hearts and minds of His people, including the law of Moses which Jesus and the apostles quote from i.e. Greatest commandments etc. What changed at the Cross was the commandments contained in ordinances Col 2:14-17KJV, Eph 3:15 which were the old sanctuary laws that had to with the Levitical priesthood, annual feast days, , food and drink offerings, animal sacrifices and circumcision that was always a placeholder and pointing forward to Christ

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hey there SabbathBlessings.
The text in Deut 30:10-14 show us that judgments are not. The judgments being those to which dealt with us when we sinned (the priesthood and it's ministry.). Your post says that those judgements were also placed in the hearts of the people unless I am misreading it.


Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Agreed, I said God's law was written in the hearts and minds of God's people Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33 and shared what changed in the NC was the commandments contained in the handwriting (Moses) of ordinances. Col 2:14KJV Eph 2:15 Hope this helps.

Good point about the judgements, that is all His righteous Judgement.