The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday.

[SabbathBlessings]

Wrong SB, Read Col 2 without your Ellen glasses on and you will find in that chapter that indeed Paul stated that the Sabbath was a shadow and Jesus is our reality. In Gal 3:19 Paul tells us that the Law ended. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

I didn’t quote Ellen I quoted clear scripture- the law that ended when the Seed would come is animal sacrifices Heb 10:1-22, not the law that defines sin Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 our salvation is from sin, we are not saved in sin. Mat 1:21 which is why God’s faithful keep God’s law until the end of time Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 and believes the teachings of Jesus to obey the commandments of God over following man-made rules. Mat 15:3-9 Mark 7:7-8

 

[daq]

All you have done is beat around the bush. I assume it is your assumption that Gentiles are grafted into Israel. Israel was never a life giver. Only God gives life. When we accept Jesus as our Savior we are grafted into Him, the giver and sustainer of life. Jesus is the author of the new and better covenant. The old way was done away.

So you do not believe Heb 8:8 quoting from Jer 31:31? What new covenant is it that you speak of since it is not the one in those two passages which the Prophets says would be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah? Paul says let anyone who preaches a different gospel be accursed: that doesn't bother you in the least?

The question still remains. If the Sabbath was so important why didn't God reveal it to all mankind when it was given to Israel?

Yisrael was always to be and will always be a light to the Nations, (a.k.a. Gentiles). That's why Paul teaches that the Gentiles are grafted into Yisrael. Nowhere is it taught that Gentiles get to remain Gentiles for the rest of their lives. The Gospel to the Gentiles is the entrance door into the family of Yisrael in Meshiah. That's why Paul says Meshiah has become the new Minister of the Circumcision, and also, "We are the Circumcision". There is therefore a day appointed of the Father when a babe, child, heir, and son in Meshiah becomes a man.

Oy! Has anyone including myself indicated that you are a legalist?

I get that all the time from plenty of posters.

Accusing me of being one because I disagree with your premises that somehow we are under the dictates of "some" of the old covenant laws is very poor judgment and a poor debating tactic. All I have done is to prove no one is subject to the laws given only to Israel at Sinai. I believe scripture is telling us those laws ended at Calvary and that we are under the laws of the new and better covenant.

Problem is that according to your own legalistic argument your version of the new covenant is not mentioned anywhere in the scripture without saying that it was to be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah.

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

That's not another argument from a legalistic view of the text?

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

Acts 13:39
Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!

How can you not see that most of these scripture one-liners removed from their contexts create a legalistic argument? They now read like commandments from Paul: "You are under this but not under that", You are not under that but under this".

I agree, but that was not the point I was trying to get across to you. Why would any other nation feel the need to celebrate the fourth with us? Why should I feel the need to celebrate a day to remember Israel's flight out of Egypt? The same for all the feast days.

The point was that if believers begin a journey to join Yisrael, when they enter into the faith in Meshiah, then they should be proud to celebrate the holy days of the nation, (in this particular case, the Shabbat). In that manner it is much like one who immigrates, (legally), and studies, and goes through the required process to become a proud citizen of the USA.

I do not believe Paul was indicating Gentiles should become Jews. Why did you stop at verse 13 when the next two verses make it very clear that Jesus ended the Law with its commandments in order to make the two groups one. Why would anyone choose to become like a group of people who deny that Jesus is the Son of God?

We have entirely different views on the body-temple analogies in the scripture, and who and what is a Yhudi, and who or what is a Yisraeli. Sin dwells in the flesh: the outer bounds and eretz-lands roundabout your temple complex. As concerning the Gospel, enemies for your sake dwell therein: but as touching the election, the northern tribes scattered in the nations are beloved of the fathers, and these are the lost sheep of the house of Yisrael. However the Yhudi dwells in the holy adamah-soil of the heart, and of course, as Paul says, circumcision is of the heart, Rom 2:28-29.

 

[Bob S]

So you do not believe Heb 8:8 quoting from Jer 31:31? What new covenant is it that you speak of since it is not the one in those two passages which the Prophets says would be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah? Paul says let anyone who preaches a different gospel be accursed: that doesn't bother you in the least?

What made you think I don't believe Heb is quoting Jer? Do you believe Jesus came to just save Judah and Israel? He told the disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News. New Covenant Christians are given four commands by Jesus. Observe communion, believe in Him and love one another as Jesus Loves us. 1Jn 3:19 tells us we belong to the truth if we do those things. Love includes every thing dealing with how we treat each other. The old covenant only deals with 9 commands.

I cannot believe you judge me because I disagree with what you are teaching. May I remind you that you are not the judge. I am a New covenant believer. It appears you don't even understand that Jesus ushered in the New Covenant because Israel failed to keep the one given at Sinai. Paul called the 10 commandments the ministry of death. I wonder why. Are you keeping it any better than the Israelites did? Are you able to turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on the sabbath? Is 58:13. It appears Israelites were not able to keep the command and when I was a Sabbath observer I and everyone I knew was not able to attain the standards required.

Yisrael was always to be and will always be a light to the Nations, (a.k.a. Gentiles).

That's why Paul teaches that the Gentiles are grafted into Yisrael. Nowhere is it taught that Gentiles get to remain Gentiles for the rest of their lives.

My friend that is just a bunch of bologna. We are grafted into the Life Giver not Israel who failed from the get go.

The Gospel to the Gentiles is the entrance door into the family of Yisrael in Meshiah

. That's why Paul says Meshiah has become the new Minister of the Circumcision, and also, "We are the Circumcision". There is therefore a day appointed of the Father when a babe, child, heir, and son in Meshiah becomes a man.



I get that all the time from plenty of posters.

You accused me of something I didn't do

Problem is that according to your own legalistic argument your version of the new covenant is not mentioned anywhere in the scripture without saying that it was to be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah.

I don't believe you understand what my version of the New Covenant is.

That's not another argument from a legalistic view of the text?



How can you not see that most of these scripture one-liners removed from their contexts create a legalistic argument? They now read like commandments from Paul: "You are under this but not under that", You are not under that but under this".

Very simple, we are not under the dictates of the Law given to only one nation, Israel.

The point was that if believers begin a journey to join Yisrael, when they enter into the faith in Meshiah, then they should be proud to celebrate the holy days of the nation, (in this particular case, the Shabbat). In that manner it is much like one who immigrates, (legally), and studies, and goes through the required process to become a proud citizen of the USA.



We have entirely different views on the body-temple analogies in the scripture, and who and what is a Yhudi, and who or what is a Yisraeli. Sin dwells in the flesh: the outer bounds and eretz-lands roundabout your temple complex. As concerning the Gospel, enemies for your sake dwell therein: but as touching the election, the northern tribes scattered in the nations are beloved of the fathers, and these are the lost sheep of the house of Yisrael. However the Yhudi dwells in the holy adamah-soil of the heart, and of course, as Paul says, circumcision is of the heart, Rom 2:28-29.

 

[Gary K]

What made you think I don't believe Heb is quoting Jer? Do you believe Jesus came to just save Judah and Israel? He told the disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News. New Covenant Christians are given four commands by Jesus. Observe communion, believe in Him and love one another as Jesus Loves us. 1Jn 3:19 tells us we belong to the truth if we do those things. Love includes every thing dealing with how we treat each other. The old covenant only deals with 9 commands.

I cannot believe you judge me because I disagree with what you are teaching. May I remind you that you are not the judge. I am a New covenant believer. It appears you don't even understand that Jesus ushered in the New Covenant because Israel failed to keep the one given at Sinai. Paul called the 10 commandments the ministry of death. I wonder why. Are you keeping it any better than the Israelites did? Are you able to turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on the sabbath? Is 58:13. It appears Israelites were not able to keep the command and when I was a Sabbath observer I and everyone I knew was not able to attain the standards required.



My friend that is just a bunch of bologna. We are grafted into the Life Giver not Israel who failed from the get go.



You accused me of something I didn't do

I don't believe you understand what my version of the New Covenant is.

Very simple, we are not under the dictates of the Law given to only one nation, Israel.

Romans 8: 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

It appears to me that your understanding of scripture is sadly lacking.

 

[daq]

What made you think I don't believe Heb is quoting Jer?

That wasn't what I said or meant. What I meant was that you do not believe what those passages both say, that the new covenant which you claim to partake in was only foretold to be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, which you say does not apply to you when it comes to everything else spoken to and about them: for you say that even the Shabbat was only commanded to Yisreal, and not yourself, and therefore the Shabbat does not apply to you. Thus not only do you argue a legalistic argument, saying that there is no commandment for you to observe the Shabbat, by claiming it is only for Yisrael, but you also then claim by default to be of Yisrael by way of partaking in the new covenant: for the following is what the passage says.

Jeremiah 31:29-31 KJV
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:31 is quoted in Hebrews 8:8, which is the same new covenant you claim to partake in, but it is only stated to be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, which you claim have nothing to do with you so that you can escape the obvious implications, especially concerning the Shabbat commandments. It's not only a legalistic argument but also hypocritical thinking. You claim the new covenant for yourself but want nothing to do with joining the all Yisrael of the Father by becoming grafted into His olive tree which is the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, (again, Jer 11:16-17).

Do you believe Jesus came to just save Judah and Israel? He told the disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News. New Covenant Christians are given four commands by Jesus. Observe communion, believe in Him and love one another as Jesus Loves us. 1Jn 3:19 tells us we belong to the truth if we do those things. Love includes every thing dealing with how we treat each other. The old covenant only deals with 9 commands.

Yet another legalistic argument, and as I said, even the first great commandment begins with the two words, "Hear, O Yisrael", which is exactly how the Master quotes it beginning in Mark 12:29. So again, you claim that a commandment from Dt 6:4-5 is for you but you want nothing to do with joining Yisrael. And likewise the second great commandment is from Leviticus 19:18, and you claim that commandment is for you but want nothing to do with joining the all Yisrael of the Father by becoming grafted into His olive tree which is the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, (again, Jer 11:16-17).

I cannot believe you judge me because I disagree with what you are teaching.

That was and is a judgment of your doctrine which is more legalistic then you appear to realize. Is it not right to speak the truth to you so that you can adjust your doctrine accordingly if you so please to do so? What is wrong with that?

May I remind you that you are not the judge.

Yes, we are to judge doctrine and expose error if indeed we love each other: find the truth and speak it from the rooftops so that Elohim may be glorified and so that you are not poisoning those you claim to love with errant doctrines.

I am a New covenant believer.

I have no reason to believe you because of who the new covenant is actually cut with according to the scripture: the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, which you want nothing to do with and claim that all of our Instructions from the Father in His Word are set aside or done away with.

It appears you don't even understand that Jesus ushered in the New Covenant because Israel failed to keep the one given at Sinai. Paul called the 10 commandments the ministry of death. I wonder why. Are you keeping it any better than the Israelites did? Are you able to turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on the sabbath? Is 58:13. It appears Israelites were not able to keep the command and when I was a Sabbath observer I and everyone I knew was not able to attain the standards required.

It appears to me that you have made up your own private version of the new covenant which is not found anywhere in the scripture, and again, that of course is by way of your own private errant doctrines which are based on misunderstandings and cherry-picked passages removed from their contexts.

My friend that is just a bunch of bologna. We are grafted into the Life Giver not Israel who failed from the get go.

Thus you do not actually believe Paul but rather your own version of his discourse in Romans 11 and the other statements which I referenced in those comments, ("That's why Paul says Meshiah has become the new Minister of the Circumcision" is from Rom 15:8 and "We are the Circumcision" is from Phil 3:3).

You accused me of something I didn't do

Not so: your doctrine and arguments against the Shabbat are indeed legalistic by way of your searching the scripture to find out whether or not you are commanded to observe the Shabbat, and then claiming you are not commanded to observe the Shabbat, and that you do by way of excluding yourself from the olive tree of the all Yisrael of the Father and claiming that the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah have nothing to do with you even though you claim to partake in the new covenant which is for the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah according to both passages where it is mentioned.

I don't believe you understand what my version of the New Covenant is.

I know one thing: it is not the Biblical version, and that I have shown by the scripture.

Very simple, we are not under the dictates of the Law given to only one nation, Israel.

Thus you confess that you have no inclination to become grafted into the olive tree of the all Yisrael of the Father and join His holy nation and people. No doubt you have invented your own version of a new covenant which only exists in your imagination.

 

[Bob S]

That wasn't what I said or meant. What I meant was that you do not believe what those passages both say, that the new covenant which you claim to partake in was only foretold to be cut with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, which you say does not apply to you when it comes to everything else spoken to and about them: for you say that even the Shabbat was only commanded to Yisreal, and not yourself, and therefore the Shabbat does not apply to you. Thus not only do you argue a legalistic argument, saying that there is no commandment for you to observe the Shabbat, by claiming it is only for Yisrael, but you also then claim by default to be of Yisrael by way of partaking in the new covenant: for the following is what the passage says.

You have made a very good point. I am very aware that the new covenant was/is with Judah and Israel. Now allow me to ask you some questions.
When did Jeremiah's prophesy come to realization?
What was Jesus purpose for coming to this wicked World?
What are or will be the commands of the New and better covenant?
What was the purpose of the Torah?
Was the Torah's purpose successful?
Do we today need the same discipline Israel needed?
What feeds the branches of the Olive tree?
Verse 9 of Heb8 says this:
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
Then in verse 13 we read this: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
If, as it says, the New Covenant will not be like the Old Covenant what do you believe that entails?
if, as it says, the Old Covenant IS obsolete why should anyone want to go back to something that didn't work in the first place when there is something NEW AND BETTER?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You have made a very good point. I am very aware that the new covenant was/is with Judah and Israel. Now allow me to ask you some questions.
When did Jeremiah's prophesy come to realization?
What was Jesus purpose for coming to this wicked World?
What are or will be the commands of the New and better covenant?
What was the purpose of the Torah?
Was the Torah's purpose successful?
Do we today need the same discipline Israel needed?
What feeds the branches of the Olive tree?
Verse 9 of Heb8 says this:
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
Then in verse 13 we read this: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
If, as it says, the New Covenant will not be like the Old Covenant what do you believe that entails?
if, as it says, the Old Covenant IS obsolete why should anyone want to go back to something that didn't work in the first place when there is something NEW AND BETTER?

Can you point to the scripture that says the New Covenant is established on better laws?

 

[reddogs]

Are you able to explain why SDAs believe Adam Eve also participated with God as He rested? Are you also able to explain why you believe God rested every succeeding seventh-day and so did everyone else?

Why would it be important to "us" when He only gave the Sabbath command to one nation? Most of the remainder of the World's population had no knowledge of Israel's Sabbath law.

If the Sabbath command is written on the heart, why is it that all mankind are not ceasing daily activities to remember creation and remember the Israelites flight out of Egypt? The United States celebrates the fourth of July as the day we became an independent Nation. Why would any other nation feel the need to celebrate the fourth with us?

Genesis 4:3
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

What 'time' was there but the weekly cycle in the Garden of Eden.

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What law was Cain transgressing? God certainly told them and made it clear to them.

 

[daq]

You have made a very good point. I am very aware that the new covenant was/is with Judah and Israel. Now allow me to ask you some questions.

Okay.

When did Jeremiah's prophesy come to realization?

The Gospel is personal and individual, to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, (Gal 4:1-2, Heb 10:35-39).

What was Jesus purpose for coming to this wicked World?

To fully expound and fill up the true understanding of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings, so that we, being in him and therefore in his Testimony, might walk pleasing to the Father.

What are or will be the commands of the New and better covenant?

Everything which the Master expounds in the Gospel accounts, which includes the Torah as understood according to the new Way, which is of course expounded in his Testimony. The palaios or old covenant is given in Exodus 34, the passage from which Paul expounds in 2 Corinthians 3. That covenant was not the same as it came after the golden calf incident. That covenant was "for yourself", but they did not make their way the way that was pleasing to the Father and therefore "their way" has been done away with just as the Prophets foretold. There is an entire thread on this here.

What was the purpose of the Torah?

There are many purposes, including to be our tutor into Meshiah, but for just a few, to explain sin, to judge and condemn sin, and to show us how to cut off sin from our members and put it/them to death, (the Torah-Instruction of sin and death). Sin is personified and dwells in the flesh: Paul therefore teaches the same, Mortify (or put to death) the deeds of the body, and, Mortify (or put to death) your members upon (concerning) the earth, (of below). Moreover Paul also states that he teaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:37, 1Thes 1:4:1-8), and the Master fully expounds everything we need to truly understand the Torah in the new supernal way of above

Was the Torah's purpose successful?

Perhaps you will find out if and when you have endured (in the Testimony of the Meshiah) unto the end. Has the Gospel been preached in all your land? You shall not have gone through all the cities of Yisrael until the Son of Man be come. Are you not of Yisrael? Oh, that's right, nevermind, you get to remain in the land of the Gentiles according to your reasoning.

(This also is a body-temple analogy).

Do we today need the same discipline Israel needed?

Yes, "Hear, O Yisrael", see Jeremiah 7:21-30. It really is too bad translators render HEAR as OBEY in so many places and so often, if they actually heard they would get that right, and the reader might begin to actually understand: for one cannot obey anything that is spoken or written if the same cannot actually understand what has been said, and in the scripture, and the Testimony of the Master, hearing is understanding and perceiving, that is, hearing with intelligence and circumspection.

What feeds the branches of the Olive tree?

The Root, according to Paul, which is Meshiah our Master and Teacher of Righteousness.

Verse 9 of Heb8 says this:
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

Yes, quoting from the LXX-Septuagint version of Jeremiah 31:32.

Then in verse 13 we read this: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Actually the Greek word for covenant is not found in any Greek textual family concerning this verse but is only added by some translators in their English translations. A fair and honest translation should be placing words that are added into the text in italics, a practice which the KJV translators seem to have been the first to implement, to their credit.

If, as it says, the New Covenant will not be like the Old Covenant what do you believe that entails?

As shown in the other thread which I linked to, concerning what is in Exo 34, it is no longer based on the physical, outward, natural minded interpretations and injunctions of the Sanhedrin, Elders, Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes whose handwritten ordinances, dogmas, and decrees were binding on the whole nation, and which were against us, and which were nailed to the stake. The new Way is the Way of Meshiah expounded in all his teachings, parables, proverbs, sayings, idioms, and preaching of the kingdom of Elohim in the Gospel accounts.

if, as it says, the Old Covenant IS obsolete why should anyone want to go back to something that didn't work in the first place when there is something NEW AND BETTER?

Agreed: no more outward, natural-man, Pharisaic understanding of the Torah for me.

But what about you? Is your understanding of the Torah according to doctrines and teachings of the Master in the Gospel accounts? or is your understanding of the Torah instead based on what the Pharisees still preach to this day? You cannot have it both ways: for even if you only choose the Pharisee way so as to reject the Torah because of their faulty interpretations, you still have made a choice, and that choice is not in agreement with the new Way taught by the Master in the Gospel accounts.

 

[Bob S]

Genesis 4:3
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

What 'time' was there but the weekly cycle in the Garden of Eden.

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What law was Cain transgressing? God certainly told them and made it clear to them.

I am sure Cain knew right from wrong. After all all are born with that instinct. I really do not understand your correlation of time and whether Adam and Eve resting. You also didn't answer my second paragraph as to why god didn't give the Sabbath command to any other nation. If God didn't why is it so important that some are trying to persuade others to observe it. Ellen White even wrote that if we didn't observe it we would not have eternal life. do you believe her?

 

[Bob S]

Can you point to the scripture that says the New Covenant is established on better laws?

You are correct, I see only one translation that come close to what I wrote. I should have written better "promises". Thanks for critiquing.

I realize you believe the covenant God gave to Israel at Sinai is also the New Covenant. I suppose you also know that the Book of the Law was part of the covenant. Why is it you only believe a couple of the books commands?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are correct, I see only one translation that come close to what I wrote. I should have written better "promises". Thanks for critiquing.

I realize you believe the covenant God gave to Israel at Sinai is also the New Covenant. I suppose you also know that the Book of the Law was part of the covenant. Why is it you only believe a couple of the books commands?

According to God, the Ten Commandments was separated from all other laws - after He wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments- He added no more.

Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The same law we see in the life of Jesus, His disciples and His faithful followers kept until the very end of time. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

 

[Gary K]

I am sure Cain knew right from wrong. After all all are born with that instinct. I really do not understand your correlation of time and whether Adam and Eve resting. You also didn't answer my second paragraph as to why god didn't give the Sabbath command to any other nation. If God didn't why is it so important that some are trying to persuade others to observe it. Ellen White even wrote that if we didn't observe it we would not have eternal life. do you believe her?

Yes. Those who understand the issues involved and choose to reject the Sabbath will not, cannot, be saved for they would be very unhappy in heaven. It would be torture for them as they would ostracize themselves when everyone else would be going to the temple to worship on Sabbath.

 

[reddogs]

I am sure Cain knew right from wrong. After all all are born with that instinct. I really do not understand your correlation of time and whether Adam and Eve resting. You also didn't answer my second paragraph as to why god didn't give the Sabbath command to any other nation. If God didn't why is it so important that some are trying to persuade others to observe it. Ellen White even wrote that if we didn't observe it we would not have eternal life. do you believe her?

But notice God plainly told him 'sin' was at the door, not look at your 'instinct' and see what it tells you, Nike's 'Just Do It' says that. God was telling Cain that a 'transgression of the Law' was about to occur, and we see the truth of that. As for the question of 'time', the 'time' that was there was the weekly cycle, and what comes at the end of the weekly cycle, the seventh day. It was the Sabbath that Cain brought an offering to the Lord. Hmm...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But notice God plainly told him 'sin' was at the door, not look at your 'instinct' and see what it tells you, Nike's 'Just Do It' says that. God was telling Cain that a 'transgression of the Law' was about to occur, and we see the truth of that. As for the question of 'time', the 'time' that was there was the weekly cycle, and what comes at the end of the weekly cycle, the seventh day. It was the Sabbath that Cain brought an offering to the Lord. Hmm...

Thats right, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression. Romans 4:15

The fact Cain knew it was sin, means he knew God's law. No law, no sin.

 

[HIM]

The Gospel is personal and individual, to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, (Gal 4:1-2, Heb 10:35-39).

Amen. In the age of instant gratification this needs screamed throughout the land.

 

[HIM]

According to God, the Ten Commandments was separated from all other laws - after He wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments- He added no more.

Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The same law we see in the life of Jesus, His disciples and His faithful followers kept until the very end of time. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

Good post SabbathBlessings. The following info has been posted here at this forum for some time. The last time to @reddogs who chose not to respond at all. So rather than rewrite it again; what was posted to them is copied and posted here again because it relates to your post here as well.

So the big argument even among those here who agree with your (reddogs) post is which laws. Some say the Ten, some say all. And some say some of the all. The thing is God did not leave us in respect to our own wisdom in this. Deut. 29:1 tells us that God had a second covenant besides the one at Horeb that He was making with the children of Israel before they entered the promised land. Deut.. 30:10-14 give us the details. It says we are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. Keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. Judgements is not mentioned here just the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law.

Why does He say that we are to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law and not the judgments?

Because He goes on to say that this commandment to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is not far from us. But this Word is in our hearts and in our mouths to do it. Not the Judgements contained in the Book of the Law but The commandments and statutes. Not those judgments that admonished and condemned us when we sinned for they are not necessary. For His Word is in our heart and mouth to do it. (see Rom. 10:4-8 where it is paraphrased for out learning) Or as Jeremiah Put it and you (reddogs) so astutely quoted in His giving of this new covenant again due to our stiff necks and hard hearts. Wherein He said affirming which was given to Moses in Deut. 29:1-30:14. He said, This is the Covenant that I will make, I will put my Law into your hearts and in your minds write them. (as a footnote Law is singular not plural in Jeremiah. This implies the Torah not just the Ten)



Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Good post SabbathBlessings. The following info has been posted here at this forum for some time. The last time to @reddogs who chose not to respond at all. So rather than rewrite it again; what was posted to them is copied and posted here again because it relates to your post here as well.

So the big argument even among those here who agree with your (reddogs) post is which laws. Some say the Ten, some say all. And some say some of the all. The thing is God did not leave us in respect to our own wisdom in this. Deut. 29:1 tells us that God had a second covenant besides the one at Horeb that He was making with the children of Israel before they entered the promised land. Deut.. 30:10-14 give us the details. It says we are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. Keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. Judgements is not mentioned here just the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law.

Why does He say that we are to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law and not the judgments?

Because He goes on to say that this commandment to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is not far from us. But this Word is in our hearts and in our mouths to do it. Not the Judgements contained in the Book of the Law but The commandments and statutes. Not those judgments that admonished and condemned us when we sinned for they are not necessary. For His Word is in our heart and mouth to do it. (see Rom. 10:4-8 where it is paraphrased for out learning) Or as Jeremiah Put it and you (reddogs) so astutely quoted in His giving of this new covenant again due to our stiff necks and hard hearts. Wherein He said affirming which was given to Moses in Deut. 29:1-30:14. He said, This is the Covenant that I will make, I will put my Law into your hearts and in your minds write them. (as a footnote Law is singular not plural in Jeremiah. This implies the Torah not just the Ten)



Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Hi Him,

Nice seeing you. The way I understand it God wrote all of His law in the hearts and minds of His people, including the law of Moses which Jesus and the apostles quote from i.e. Greatest commandments etc. What changed at the Cross was the commandments contained in ordinances Col 2:14-17KJV, Eph 3:15 which were the old sanctuary laws that had to with the Levitical priesthood, annual feast days, , food and drink offerings, animal sacrifices and circumcision that was always a placeholder and pointing forward to Christ Heb 10:1-22 who was our Passover Lamb 1 Cor 5:7 and whose blood can take away the sins of the whole world 1 John 1:9, while the blood of animals made nothing perfect. Heb 10:4. Jesus is the main difference in the New Covenant- He is our Mediator, Advocate and High Priest. Instead of sacrificing animals when we sin, we can go directly to Jesus when we confess and repent, which means a change in direction 1 John 1:9. Sin is still the same as the OC breaking God's law Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and what our salvation is from, not in Mat 1:21 The New Covenant is based on better promises- which is Jesus Heb 8:6, not better or new laws Heb 8:10 which is why we see the commandments being kept in the life of Jesus and the apostles and His faithful remnant until Jesus comes Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14.

 

[HIM]

Hi Him,

Nice seeing you. The way I understand it God wrote all of His law in the hearts and minds of His people, including the law of Moses which Jesus and the apostles quote from i.e. Greatest commandments etc. What changed at the Cross was the commandments contained in ordinances Col 2:14-17KJV, Eph 3:15 which were the old sanctuary laws

Hey there SabbathBlessings Happy Sabbath,
Hence why the Judgements are not said to be in our hearts and mouths in Deut. 30:10-14 in respect to the New Covenant given prior to Israel entering into the promised land. It was a reality then as it is now. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

that had to with the Levitical priesthood, annual feast days, , food and drink offerings, animal sacrifices and circumcision that was always a placeholder and pointing forward to Christ Heb 10:1-22 who was our Passover Lamb 1 Cor 5:7 and whose blood can take away the sins of the whole world 1 John 1:9, while the blood of animals made nothing perfect. Heb 10:4. Jesus is the main difference in the New Covenant- He is our Mediator, Advocate and High Priest. Instead of sacrificing animals when we sin, we can go directly to Jesus when we confess and repent, which means a change in direction 1 John 1:9. Sin is still the same as the OC breaking God's law Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and what our salvation is from, not in Mat 1:21 The New Covenant is based on better promises- which is Jesus Heb 8:6, not better or new laws Heb 8:10 which is why we see the commandments being kept in the life of Jesus and the apostles and His faithful remnant until Jesus comes Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14.

Sin in verses 1:8 and 9 is a noun not a verb. We all have sin. Our tempers, passions and what not. We are to confess, assent to our Lord Father God before they become a verb. As the temptation, sin becomes temptation, we give it, confess, plead unto the Lord and He is faithful to take away our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness so it does not become a verb, the action. And if any one does sin, the verb we have a helper with the Father Jesus Christ our Lord. However, to many are now crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to open shame. It is just as bad as the continual offerings back in the time prior to Christ which the Lord abhorred as He does now, the vain sacrifice coming from our lips. For if we are willfully sinning after we receive the knowledge of the truth, The fact that we who have been sanctified are perfected forever, having His laws in our hearts and minds, to succor us when we are tempted. Having step through the vale that is His flesh being in the presence God. There remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries, those who are sinning willfully.

 

[HIM]

Jews around Jesus did not believe in Jesus, although Moses prophesied about Him. The context was not evolution or the age of the earth, in those things Jews probably believed as you do.

As did Jesus.