The Pastor King. an examination of the modern pastor role as opposed to the scripture order of God

[Bobber]

Paul said he did not make the gospel of Christ chargeable.

I recall years back a church was going to have a special speaker who was known to go around the country (by being invited) and would have seminars on a certain subject. He'd tell them his budget and had a set fee for him to come. So the church charges with tickets if one would like to go. It all sounds so justified....after all he does have to pay for plane tickets, lodging etc....and does have to support his family....all true things

What should however TRUMP everything however is the fact that you leave the impression.....pay the fee and you can learn how God can turn your life around and imagine some dear soul can't come up with the money? Other might say well if they told the church most would make sure that they could go....thing is though....it puts the less fortunate in a place where they feel embarrassed. Just doesn't have a good feel to me. A free will offering and only that should be the only thing that is said IMO before the people.

Now you multiply that 2-3 times a year.....a church having different speakers come....and all tickets involved....then what does one really have? It most definitely would be a pay amounts of money and see how God can help you.I won't even claim that such ministries are only after filthy lucre. They might sincerely be wanting to help the saints through their instruction.....thing is though I just don't believe it's God's way. Jesus NEVER ever operated in that manner.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I recall years back a church was going to have a special speaker who was known to go around the country (by being invited) and would have seminars on a certain subject. He'd tell them his budget and had a set fee for him to come. So the church charges with tickets if one would like to go. It all sounds so justified....after all he does have to pay for plane tickets, lodging etc....and does have to support his family....all true things

What should however TRUMP everything however is the fact that you leave the impression.....pay the fee and you can learn how God can turn your life around and imagine some dear soul can't come up with the money? Other might say well if they told the church most would make sure that they could go....thing is though....it puts the less fortunate in a place where they feel embarrassed. Just doesn't have a good feel to me. A free will offering and only that should be the only thing that is said IMO before the people.

Now you multiply that 2-3 times a year.....a church having different speakers come....and all tickets involved....then what does one really have? It most definitely would be a pay amounts of money and see how God can help you.I won't even claim that such ministries are only after filthy lucre. They might sincerely be wanting to help the saints through their instruction.....thing is though I just don't believe it's God's way. Jesus NEVER ever operated in that manner.

I do agree with you here.

And I do believe that itinerant ministers such as apostles (who are itinerant, some are local as well) and evangelist or prophets etc. can have power to receive some benefit for them as they travel about. Because they are traveling, but is hard to secure long term employments etc. Although Paul did find work often. Sometimes he had no worked and hungered and yet he still was taken care of God was with him and provided. When Jesus sent them out (not local teaching in a home) sent out preachers.They lacked nothing. If God sends them then he will provide.

But what is interesting about Paul, is that he didn’t want to do this. I believe Paul’s example here is a good one for many today to follow.
He even says he robbed churches taking wages from them to help others. He feels so troubled by this that he looks at it like a kind of robbery. He said this also to expose the false apostles who ,exalted themselves over them and as he said they “take of you”

But this itinerant preachers sent out is different than local elders who Paul encouraged to work with their own hands in Acts 20:33-35.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You believe God gave the gift, and it existed, but the man the gift was given to did not exist? How does that make any sense at all.

If it was so with the pastor, then it has to be so with all the gifts. That it the flaw in your thinking.

I’m speaking of the modern Pastor role over all today. The pastor gift existed and still does. But how they function and what they can and cannot do is another talk. I was refering to the fact that Paul never directly spoke to one man over the church as a pastor. He often wrote to the whole church and sometimes to the church and elders etc.

That is historically and scripturally inaccurate as I have shown.

Have you never read 1 Cor 9:3. My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? 6 Or is itonly Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working? 7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?

Did you catch that? Who tends a flock. That would be a shepherd (pastor).

Speaking of apostles who preach being sent out, not local elders who can work as Paul gave example (Acts 20:33-35).

Because the itinerant sent out “preachers” town criers, we’re often traveling about it was difficult to secure full time employment. So the body is emncoursged to help them with what they need. A place to stay, food etc.

When Jesus sent out the apostles to preach itinerant lay in all the towns he provided for them. And they lacked nothing.

But it’s interesting, even though Paul had the power to receive some benefit from others he didn’t want to do this. His example is better than many and his example would be good to see today.

And read the entire context of the chapter, and note these parts in bold

1 Corinthians 9: 5. Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? 4. Have we not power to eat and to drink? ..12. If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. 15. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. ..16. For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 17. For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 18. What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.”

 

[Always in His Presence]

I’m speaking of the modern Pastor over all role of today. The pastor gift existed and still dies. But how they function and what they can and cannot do is another talk. I was refering to the fact that Paul never directly spoke to one man over the church as a pastor. He often wrote to the whole church and sometimes to the church and elders etc.

And as I have demonstrated - the highlighted is where your error lies - scripture and 2,000 years of practice disprove it very plainly.

 

[LoveofTruth]

And as I have demonstrated - the highlighted is where your error lies - scripture and 2,000 years of practice disprove it very plainly.

Scripture doesn't disprove it at all. We only find the word pastors one time in the New testament in the bible. And when Paul wrote to churches he was speaking to the whole church and sometimes the elders. We do not read Paul ever addressing a pastor gift over a whole church. .

If you are right show me the scriptures. Your study and knowledge of the word is in question in some parts here by such claims if you can't prove it by scripture. It was you that said "scripture and 2,000 years of practice disprove it very plainly"

And I put the holy scriptures over any man later who goes against them in any way. I hear pauls commands to the church and God's order in scripture revealed and if others later on go away from this I will follow the Lord Jesus as he worked in Paul and Peter and John. Not the so called "church fathers" or others if they go away from that which is written. We should not put man above that which is written.

"...that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.”
(1 Corinthians 4:6)

and as far as church history. That is riddled with such a variety of things and many of those who began to go astray from Gods order early on. We read about the men who would draw away disciples after themselves in Acts 20. Paul warned about such men for three years with tears. We read of Jesus warning about false men coming in as well and we read John warning about a man named Diotrephes in third John who loved to have the pre eminance over all and did not receive some and kicked others out of the church. We read many other examples of these men already rising up in Revelations the letters to the churches and we read of Paul confronting false apostles in Corinth who exalted themselves and took of others etc (2 Cor 11).

 

[LoveofTruth]

Here is where context is helpful -

I spoke the verses I gave considering the context. But also as used in principles related to ministry of the saints and itinerant ministry in comparison to local elders in oversight .

Let's go to first year Bible School - Exegesis 100

You say this it would seem to try and impress that I cannot understand scripture aright unless i use your
" Hermeneutics" or mans wisdom.

Yes, lets go to the beginning of study.

My way of understanding scripture is God's way, by the Spirit. The Spirit guides into all truth and the anointing teaches all things, God works in me to make me perfect unto every good work through Jesus Christ. If i lack anything He will show me.

I am not against learning the meaning of words and understanding how to read and write etc. But these things wont tell you what God is meaning in the spiritual .

For example

This is my way and consider Paul cautions of seeking mans wisdom in these things

"And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God....And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.... 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..”(1 Corinthians 2)

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." ( 1 john 2:27)

The pharisees had scripture and studied it and could quote many things yet they did not know Jesus in front of them and they did not come to him to have life. They could not see spiritual things. But they could read scripture and study languages and try to understand with their natural carnal mind. They thought (like some today seem to imply,) that they had eternal life in the scriptures but Jesus said,

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. “(John 5:39 KJV)

Jesus also said they did not know the scriptures or the power of God (Matt. 22:29 KJV) even though they might have thought they did. They also did not have His word abiding in them

“And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.”(John 5:38 KJV)

Studying Greek and Hebrews will tell you the meaning of words (and that is good) but it will not tell you the real spiritual meaning of what Jesus is saying. No man knows this but by the Spirit as we read (2 Cor. 2:13,14 KJV).

For example, Jesus said

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.”(John 12:24)

A person can study the meaning in Greek of each word and still not know what Jesus is talking about. They may say “well, the word “Verily” in Greek means “firm, trustworthy, etc” or the word “corn” means, “kernal or seed”, or the word, “ground” meaning “earth, land, the solid part of whole globe”. But to know this does not tell you what spiritual truth Jesus is speaking. If we do not see the spiritual we may think Jesus is simply giving advice about farming etc.

I like when Jesus said this and I think it is very applicable today as well,

"In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.”(Luke 10:21 KJV)

If a person could simply study Greek and Hebrews and read the bible and think he is fit for ministry, then any unbeliever could do as much and simply take other men’s words from commentaries or his own speculations and reasonings and piece together a few text and comments and be a minister in an assembly. But this is not the way Christians are to walk, nor the rule of faith and practice.

We see some today who are very similar to the pharisees who seem to deny God's immediate voice and His Spirit in the heart leading and giving gifts and revelation. From such men we may get many false doctrines and error. In fact, all false doctrine has come out of the men who do not listen to the Spirit and who have not been given things from God and who have been misled by the fleshly mind, doctrines of devils or traditions and commandments of men.

Yes, all spiritual leading and every aspect of our walk must be tried and examined and yes we must appeal to all three aspects of the rule. To God directly, to the body of Christ and the holy scriptures. The witness of all three must be in harmony. But, we do not eliminate God’s Spirit directly and immediately working in us, or the body of Christ and cling to scripture alone. The word “alone” or “sola” is what troubles me, because the pharisees had scripture alone yet were without Jesus. It is true they added to scripture many of their own traditions and commandments as many do today as well. But they did not have Jesus word in their hearts. He was not in them and they were not in him for the most part.

All believers in Jesus are not at some disadvantage because they have not gone to "Bible School" or study "Hermeneutics: and other forms of mans wisdom. No, they have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness and the anointing teaches them all things. Jesus Christ works in all to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work.

Put your focus on God and Hs Spirit.

Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

Let's go to first year Bible School - Exegesis 100

ok lets examine your verses you gave.

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give"

Here we notice that Jesus is sending apostolic workers to preach and heal and cast out devils etc. They are sent out and have ministry as itinerant preachers. We see similar when Jesus said to them in the beginning of the church to go into all the world and preach the gospel. They would also be casting out devils and healing the sick etc. This again was the sent ones preaching the gospel.

"15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."(Mark 16:15-18)

When Jesus says "freely you have received. They received all things from Jesus including salvation and power from God and ability to minister etc for free. None had to pay for it Jesus didn't charge money to be a preacher or teacher to them. So that is how they received and they should do likewise to all the preach to and heal and cast of devils from etc. They should not be charging money for doing so. To freely give others means first, we have received something from God to give that was given to us. second we give at no financial cost to the ones hearing or receiving. This is simple really. I am not sure why you can;t see it? I have some idea but, there could be many reasons.

Peter said,

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."(Acts 3:6).

This is similar to freely giving and an example.

VS 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.​

Let's look at the sentence, what is Jesus telling them to freely give?

1. heal the sick​
2. cleanse the lepers​
3. raise the dead​
4. cast out demons.​

That is the subject of Jesus' instructions.

No, you forgot the main part about sending them itinerantly to "PREACH".

"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. "

A first year Bible student might be able to see that. But those who walk in the Spirit see it right away.

Then He mentions money in vs 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

Again as itinerant sent ones out into the world they can receive benefits as God provides. Just as 1 Cor 9, I shared about this in another post.

Jesus is telling them not to take anything with them - no money, no gold, no silver, not even a change of clothes or a staff. If you have no money to the point of not even a change of clothes - how can you freely give money? answer: you can't.

what??

What they had to give was not money, they gave the truth and preached of the kingdom of God and healed and cast out devils. The expression "freely give" relates to them not requiring the hearers or receivers to pay anything. It is a free gift. As Jesus gave them the free gift of salvation and the power.

and remember your study and so called "Hermeneutics", and wisdom you claim and study has you believe that "tithing" is for The church today. But thats another discussion.

Maybe time to to not focus on your first year Bible school and seek to hear the Spirit.

Does the larger font help?

it just points out your error clearer, thanks.

You post scriptures', but very very few of them support your position when read in context.

every verse I have used is rightly divided to the teaching I have shared. So far you have not shown otherwise.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If you are right show me the scriptures. Your study and knowledge of the word is in question in some parts here by such claims if you can't prove it by scripture. It was you that said "scripture and 2,000 years of practice disprove it very plainly"

I already have - will you read it this time?

 

[Always in His Presence]

What they had to give was not money, they gave the truth and preached of the kingdom of God and healed and cast out devils. The expression "freely give" relates to them not requiring the hearers or receivers to pay anything. It is a free gift. As Jesus gave them the free gift of salvation and the power.

Not if read in context -

And exegesis is different from hermeneutics - look it up.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Let's approach this from a different angle.

Can you please help me understand the questions below.

1. How many home churches are you affiliated with?
2. Are you the founder of these groups?
3. Who has the authority to correct if a group is in error?
4. Do these home churches support missionaries? And if yes, how do they know who the missionaries are?

I look forward to your answers.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Let's approach this from a different angle.

How about a spiritual one where waiting on the Lord is our goal and where we don’t trust in the wisdom and human reasoning of man.

Can you please help me understand the questions below.

God gives us understanding and I don’t want to make this discussion about me. I hope to focus on on the scriptures abd the body ministry where Christ should be working in every part (Ephesians 4:25,26, 1 Cor. 12, 1 Cor. 14:26-38, 1 Peter 4:10,11, etc) and what hinders that functioning of the church. In this post I focus on the one thing that hinders the body ministry, which is this is the one man modern pastor role over all the church and it’s activities. That has not been shown to be wrong in my teaching here, even by one verse or reasoning. I try not to make this about me. The reason being,, if those who oppose the sound scriptural teaching here and God’s order can make me the object of controversy then they might think that they can ignore the scriptures I bring and the teaching.

But I can briefly answer some of your questions.

Try not to make this about me. I am nobody of myself a small insignificant part in the whole .Christ is all. And he alone has all preeminence. If I receive a crown I will throw it at his feet.

1. How many home churches are you affiliated with?

It is hard to get an exact number I have worked with many over the years. I have helped plant many and visited others that I did not help plant. I watered sone as well.
The answer here is a long discussion and too many things to get into here.

2. Are you the founder of these groups?

I have helped plant some we had about 6 home meetings directly flow from the first one. The original church in the home lasted for about 18 years and with about 400 people come through. Not all at one time. A good meeting housed about 35-40 people in that home.
Again a long story

3. Who has the authority to correct if a group is in error?

The whole discussion of authority is another long one.

To speak briefly on this. Authority is not in a static office or position. It is in all those who live walk and speak the word in Christ and the power comes from God.
The more mature brothers have more weight and rightly can divide the word than the baby Christian. And the authority of the word is in the spirit where the witness is.
Jesus did not have authority as sone understood it and the religious men tried to question his authority and asked him by what authority he spoke. They did not recognize him in authority. He wasn’t a religious leader of their group or a earthly king as they understood. But Jesus spoke as one having authority.

When an error or doctrinal deviation or sin is in the camp. All can have input, as they walk in the spirit and the word is spoken. Even if all prophesy the person in sun can be exhorted and judged, (1 Cor.14).
But a babe is unskillful in the word of righteousness and many times such exhortation and stopping the mouths of gainsayers and convincing them by sound doctrine is done among the elders or those who walk in revelation.
Authority is in the word of God and the Spirit. And when we speak the word and show forth the life in our walk. There is not one man over all in authority.
Jesus warned of this type of governing which sadly, many seem to follow today,

Consider,

Matthew 20: 25. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27. And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:”

4. Do these home churches support missionaries? And if yes, how do they know who the missionaries are?

Missionaries, to us, are apostolic workers and evangelist. And all the body is free to support any such workers. And if such workers are known they are to be helped in what they need.
What each member does a outside the gathering in support of others is between them and God.

 

[Bobber]

The answer here is a long discussion and too many things to get into here.

Do you therefore have a web site people can refer to. I have in times past looked at Chruch Without Walls site. Steve Atkerson, elder of NTRF have a site. I too, watched some of their videos years ago. Still see they have it. I'm guessing you know of these individals.

I have helped plant some we had about 6 home meetings directly flow from the first one.

That's pretty significant. So when you get too large you make another group?

The original church in the home lasted for about 18 years and with about 400 people come through. Not all at one time. A good meeting housed about 35-40 people in that home.

Maybe a math thing wouldn't apply here but if you had 400 over 18 years...that means around 22 new different people a year? I assume you're talking about a family with children one family could average 5 people. So how did all that play out? Seems like a lot coming and going or not staying too long?

But a babe is unskillful in the word of righteousness and many times such exhortation and stopping the mouths of gainsayers and convincing them by sound doctrine is done among the elders or those who walk in revelation.

So one thing I'd really like to know. According to 1 Cor there can be times where one is to be removed from a fellowship. Some might call it church discipline. 1 Cor 5 it speaks of open immorality without remorse or repentance. The gathering of believers (the church in Corintihans) wouldn't deal with it. We can assume their reasoning was they wanted to have a reputation for being a LOVING church.....but Paul asked them don't you know a little leaven can spoil the whole lump?

I think this i what people wonder about home churches. An impression is left no one is in charge and its a very democratic type of place.....or you seek a consensus. So how or who does the talking to the one who doesn't repent. Do you actually choose to remove someone from the fellowship? Have you actually told anyone not to come back unless..............

 

[Always in His Presence]

I think this i what people wonder about home churches. An impression is left no one is in charge and its a very democratic type of place.....or you seek a consensus. So how or who does the talking to the one who doesn't repent. Do you actually choose to remove someone from the fellowship? Have you actually told anyone not to come back unless..............

That is a great question.

Matt 18:15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.​

​

Who in a home fellowship can coordinate hearing the complaint if there is no head?

 

[Always in His Presence]

There is a group in the Pakistan region that I am familiar with. The home church developed and supported home fellowship groups (home churches), who now have 32,000 home churches averaging from 50 to 200 people per church. Each home church has one person who acts as the pastor and has authority as their shepherd. Each of the home churches come under the authority of the lead pastor of the parent church, who shepherds them. They have over 1,200,000 decision for Christ just in 2023 and support hundreds of missionaries in the field.

I know another Pastor in Bangladesh who is doing the same.

Billy Joe Daugherty did the same in Tulsa, OK with more than 400 home churches (home fellowship), it is part of the reason why they run close to 12,000 people and support feeding centers and missionaries worldwide.

I think the home church is important and offers ministry opportunities found no place else. But a group of independent people with no leader is how every cult in history started and it unscriptural at the least and dangerous at the worse.

Now also read Rev 2 - the whole chapter. Notice the letters are written to the seven churches in seven cities. The "church" is singular, not plural. Also 1Tim, 2Tim and Titus are referred to as the PASTORAL Epistles.

Reality and scripture just contradicts much of what is being touted.

 

[Always in His Presence]

This is the church at Ephesus, must have been one big house? Or maybe not….

 

[PloverWing]

When an error or doctrinal deviation or sin is in the camp. All can have input, as they walk in the spirit and the word is spoken. Even if all prophesy the person in sun can be exhorted and judged, (1 Cor.14).
But a babe is unskillful in the word of righteousness and many times such exhortation and stopping the mouths of gainsayers and convincing them by sound doctrine is done among the elders or those who walk in revelation.
Authority is in the word of God and the Spirit. And when we speak the word and show forth the life in our walk. There is not one man over all in authority.
Jesus warned of this type of governing which sadly, many seem to follow today,

Just to clarify here: In your house churches, if one or two of the elders were in error, they could be corrected by the rest of the people in the congregation. Is that correct?

 

[Always in His Presence]

This is the church at Corinth - what home has 20 foot tall pillars?

 

[LoveofTruth]

View attachment 340858

This is the church at Corinth - what home has 20 foot tall pillars?

The wealthy believers had larger homes.Corinth was a wealthy city and many large homes there.

Not sure what the picture your showing is of and how it is connected to the church meetings. This image I found on Getty Images/iStockphoto. So not sure why your saying it is a christian gathering place. But even if it was, the Corinthians had some large homes.

""
There has emerged, in the recent literature, a general picture of the Pauline
churches in which it is understood that the church in a particular location
was made up of a number of “house churches”.1 This view is based on the
observations that the household played an important role in the life of the
Pauline churches (e.g. Acts 18:7-8; 1 Cor 16:15), and that it had a central
role in Graeco-Roman society. It is normally assumed that only the
wealthier, higher-status Christians would be able to provide the hospitality
necessary for these “house churches”, and that the Christian gathering was
assimilated into the family and household structure. From this assumption
proceeds another, namely that most, if not all, of the wealthier Christians
were hosts of “house churches”.(THE “HOUSE CHURCHES” IN CORINTH.
Bruce Button and Fika J Van Rensburg )

"It is difficult to know the size of the Corinthian church at the time of this first letter. Scholarly estimates range from 40 to 150 persons. It is often assumed that when “the whole church” came together for worship (1Cor 14:23), it did so in a believer’s home,"

At times a home meeting would meet with another home meeting among the churches we planted. The two meetings came together in a rich brothers home. It had a large sunken living room and lots of seating, we had about 70 or more believers there and a large meal. The ministry of edification was able to function wonderfully in this meeting. But it was a large house.

Jesus told the followers to meet in a upper room of a house. It was a large space that could fit 120 or so. So some of the well to do believers houses were large. But some were moderate size and could house about 40 -50 people. In history we see this is the case.

we read,

"The Dura-Europos church (or Dura-Europos house church) is the earliest identified Christian house church.[1] It was located in Dura-Europos, Syria, and one of the earliest known Christian churches.[2] It is believed to have been an ordinary house that was converted to a place of worship between 233 and 256, and appears to have been built following the Durene tradition, distinguished by the use of mud brick and a layout consisting of rooms encircling a courtyard, which was characteristic of most other homes built in the Dura-Europos region.[3]"

This was a house that they basically knocked out a few walls to make more room.

 

[LoveofTruth]

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Who in a home fellowship can coordinate hearing the complaint if there is no head?

Christ is the head, and as He said "I will build my church". We all need to trust in Jesus working in the believers more.

Paul speaks of Christ headship in the church often,

"And ye are complete in him, which is the head ...And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God."(Colossians 2:10,19)

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:15,16)

 

[LoveofTruth]

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This is the church at Ephesus, must have been one big house? Or maybe not….

you need more info dates proof etc. And as I said there were many rich homes that were able to have meetings

 

[LoveofTruth]

Also 1Tim, 2Tim and Titus are referred to as the PASTORAL Epistles.

no, these are not called "pastoral epistles" in the scripture. Timothy was an apostle worker and an evangelist. He traveled with Paul and worked all over.

Here is proof from scripture that you are again "touting" error and sloppy error at that sadly.

"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:...Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ." ( 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 2:6)

Here you can see that Paul , Silvanus and Timotheous were "apostles".

And Titus was also an apostle I believe as we see here

2 Corinthians 8: 23. Whether any do inquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be inquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.”

The word “messengers” is

“apostolos-from 649; a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ ("apostle") (with miraculous powers):--apostle, messenger, he that is sent

Reality and scripture just contradicts much of what is being touted.

no it didn't. It contradicted what you "touted"