Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Bradskii]

So, who here has denied the numbers?

Ah, new tactic. 'We're not denying them. Just refusing to accept them.'

I'll say this again as it seems to be constantly overlooked. If Israel is doing what it needs to do and if they are doing their best to avoid civilian casualties, then the numbers don't matter. If they can't do any more then why argue about them? The very fact that so many reject any death toll given by any organisation simply shows that the deaths do matter. Even to the point when it is noted how many children are being killed the depressing response is 'Well, not all children are innocent. Just look at these examples..'

 

[civilwarbuff]

63 journalists were killed in the Vietnam War that lasted two decades, and a total of 69 were killed in World War II from 1939 to 1945.

Between October 7th and December 18th (A little over two months): At least sixty-six Palestinian journalists and media workers have been killed, several have been injured and others are missing during the war in Gaza.

Palestine: At least sixty-six journalists and media workers killed in Gaza / IFJ

[UPDATED 18.12.2023] At least sixty-six Palestinian journalists and media workers have been killed, several have been injured and others are missing during the war in Gaza. The International Federation of Journalists (IFJ) and the Palestinian Journalists Syndicate (PJS) condemn the killings and...

www.ifj.org

And how big are the battlefields of WWII and Vietnam compared to gaza? That's what happens when you put a lot into a small active combat zone. It was their choice......

 

[civilwarbuff]

2-year-old accidentally shot, killed pregnant mom with family gun: Police

Ohio police say a 2-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his pregnant mother.

abc7chicago.com

And it's still an idiotic question.

WOW....accidentally.....Bradski, only you would consider an accident and a 12yo pointing a rifle at an IDF soldier and pulling the trigger comparable.....sheesh......it's a ridiculous post......

 

[Valletta]

People have actually said that children can be valid targets. Pictures of children carrying guns have been posted. There have been links to camps run by Hamas. And multiple examples have been given of young people being coerced into suicide bombings. None of this has been seen to happen in Gaza. But that's not the point.

The point, which you and others are avoiding is that children are being used as an example of innocent deaths. They obviously cannot be involved in the fighting. And the response? We have seen the atrocious response. It's a dehumanizing, gutter level attempt to imply that gee, all these kids being blown up might not be as innocent as it seems.

Hey look. Kids with guns! Kids at camps! Kids with explosives! You can't tell us they're all innocent!

Why won't Australia or some of these other countries take the Palestinian civilians in? Don't any of them care enough about the kids?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ah, new tactic. 'We're not denying them. Just refusing to accept them.'

I'll say this again as it seems to be constantly overlooked. If Israel is doing what it needs to do and if they are doing their best to avoid civilian casualties, then the numbers don't matter. If they can't do any more then why argue about them? The very fact that so many reject any death toll given by any organisation simply shows that the deaths do matter. Even to the point when it is noted how many children are being killed the depressing response is 'Well, not all children are innocent. Just look at these examples..'

I asked a question and once again

you deflect. Well, at least you are consistent.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why won't Australia or some of these other countries take the Palestinian civilians in? Don't any of them care enough about the kids?

Well, one seems to but don't expect him to lift a finger to help. He is too busy peddling propaganda to the masses.......

 

[Bradskii]

WOW....accidentally.....Bradski, only you would consider an accident and a 12yo pointing a rifle at an IDF soldier and pulling the trigger comparable.....sheesh......it's a ridiculous post......

Oh, sorry. I thought you wanted to know how old you could be to pull a trigger. But I now see the age of innocence is anything under 12.

 

[Bradskii]

Why won't Australia or some of these other countries take the Palestinian civilians in? Don't any of them care enough about the kids?

One of the first rules, if not the first rule of posting in a forum: Always check the answer to any question before you ask it so you don't look foolish:

'Since the Israel-Hamas conflict began on 7 October, an extensive support network has sprung up to support families arriving in Australia from Gaza. The Australian government has approved more than 800 visas for Palestinians with connections to Australia.' ‘They break my heart’: the Palestinian Australians supporting refugees from the Israel-Gaza war.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh, sorry. I thought you wanted to know how old you could be to pull a trigger. But I now see the age of innocence is anything under 12.

If you say so.......

 

[Bradskii]

If you say so.......

I don't say so. I think it was someone else who mentioned 12. Let's see:

'...and a 12yo pointing a rifle at an IDF soldier'.

Same guy posted links to articles that said this:

'...a bomb in the bag of 12-year-old Abdullah Quran...'

So yeah, seems that the age of innocence is being promoted as anything less than 12.

 

[Philip_B]

People have actually said that children can be valid targets. Pictures of children carrying guns have been posted. There have been links to camps run by Hamas. And multiple examples have been given of young people being coerced into suicide bombings. None of this has been seen to happen in Gaza. But that's not the point.

The point, which you and others are avoiding is that children are being used as an example of innocent deaths. They obviously cannot be involved in the fighting. And the response? We have seen the atrocious response. It's a dehumanizing, gutter level attempt to imply that gee, all these kids being blown up might not be as innocent as it seems.

Hey look. Kids with guns! Kids at camps! Kids with explosives! You can't tell us they're all innocent!

Who gave the children weapons? Let the children be children.

 

[rjs330]

And how big are the battlefields of WWII and Vietnam compared to gaza? That's what happens when you put a lot into a small active combat zone. It was their choice......

Not to mention there are a LOT more news outlets and journalists than during the other wars. Now they are all crammed into this small area where fighting is taking place. It was their choice to be there. They knew the risk when they went.

 

[rjs330]

One of the first rules, if not the first rule of posting in a forum: Always check the answer to any question before you ask it so you don't look foolish:

'Since the Israel-Hamas conflict began on 7 October, an extensive support network has sprung up to support families arriving in Australia from Gaza. The Australian government has approved more than 800 visas for Palestinians with connections to Australia.' ‘They break my heart’: the Palestinian Australians supporting refugees from the Israel-Gaza war.

Oh only the ones with connections to Australia. 800 you say. Well with all the thousands and thousands of babies and children being slaughtered you'd think th great country of Australia would take in all those who didn't have ties. How magnanimous of your country.

 

[Bradskii]

Oh only the ones with connections to Australia. 800 you say. Well with all the thousands and thousands of babies and children being slaughtered you'd think th great country of Australia would take in all those who didn't have ties. How magnanimous of your country.

We're doing our bit. A hell of a lot more than some other countries. And again, you should do some checking before trying to accuse others of not doing enough.

Why is it so hard for Palestinians to enter the U.S. as refugees?

In the past 10 years, fewer than 600 Palestinians in all have come to the U.S. as refugees, according to the State Department. The way the U.S. picks refugees makes most ineligible.

www.nbcnews.com

'Amid the Gaza conflict, Republicans in Congress and on the presidential campaign trail are advocating for a ban on any Palestinian refugees’ coming to the U.S. Out of more than 60,000 total refugees resettled in the U.S. in fiscal year 2023, 56 Palestinians were admitted.'

Fifty six versus our 800? Gee, well done you guys. But surely that has changed since the conflict?

'Speaking Tuesday on SiriusXM’s “The Megyn Kelly Show,” DeSantis renewed his calls to block Palestinian refugees.'

And...

'In Congress, Republican Reps. Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin and Andy Ogles of Tennessee introduced the Guaranteeing Aggressors Zero Admission Act, or the GAZA Act, which would prevent the Biden administration from issuing visas to people with Palestinian Authority passports.'

And...

'Former President Donald Trump also said this week that he would extend his travel ban to Gaza if he is re-elected.'

This is the party that you support. Not only are they doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, they are actively trying to prevent others from helping as well. No doubt we'll hear from you as to the good reasons why you expect us to help (as we are doing) yet your own party doesn't have to.

The double standards and hypocrisy is shameful.

 

[rjs330]

We're doing our bit. A hell of a lot more than some other countries. And again, you should do some checking before trying to accuse others of not doing enough.

Why is it so hard for Palestinians to enter the U.S. as refugees?

In the past 10 years, fewer than 600 Palestinians in all have come to the U.S. as refugees, according to the State Department. The way the U.S. picks refugees makes most ineligible.

www.nbcnews.com

'Amid the Gaza conflict, Republicans in Congress and on the presidential campaign trail are advocating for a ban on any Palestinian refugees’ coming to the U.S. Out of more than 60,000 total refugees resettled in the U.S. in fiscal year 2023, 56 Palestinians were admitted.'

Fifty six versus our 800? Gee, well done you guys. But surely that has changed since the conflict?

'Speaking Tuesday on SiriusXM’s “The Megyn Kelly Show,” DeSantis renewed his calls to block Palestinian refugees.'

And...

'In Congress, Republican Reps. Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin and Andy Ogles of Tennessee introduced the Guaranteeing Aggressors Zero Admission Act, or the GAZA Act, which would prevent the Biden administration from issuing visas to people with Palestinian Authority passports.'

And...

'Former President Donald Trump also said this week that he would extend his travel ban to Gaza if he is re-elected.'

This is the party that you support. Not only are they doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, they are actively trying to prevent others from helping as well. No doubt we'll hear from you as to the good reasons why you expect us to help (as we are doing) yet your own party doesn't have to.

The double standards and hypocrisy is shameful.

Funny that we didn't claim we should be helping the Palestinians. Your the one that wants a to do that. America is t interested in bringing in more Jew haters. We have enough of them already.

 

[Bradskii]

Funny that we didn't claim we should be helping the Palestinians. Your the one that wants a to do that. America is t interested in bringing in more Jew haters. We have enough of them already.

No, it's you that wanted to know what we were doing. And it seems that it's perfectly valid for you to complain 'You guys aren't doing anything' (when we actually are - I told you that you should have checked). And it seems perfectly ok for you to say 'But we don't have to do anything ourselves' (which you hadn't realised was exactly what you are doing - nothing. Again, you should check).

And in fact your own party is not just determined not to do anything. They actively want to prevent others from doing anything as well. I'll be generous and not mention the rejection of Jewish refugees after the Second World War.

Like I said, the double standards are shameful.

 

[Valletta]

One of the first rules, if not the first rule of posting in a forum: Always check the answer to any question before you ask it so you don't look foolish:

'Since the Israel-Hamas conflict began on 7 October, an extensive support network has sprung up to support families arriving in Australia from Gaza. The Australian government has approved more than 800 visas for Palestinians with connections to Australia.' ‘They break my heart’: the Palestinian Australians supporting refugees from the Israel-Gaza war.

I am pleased other countries are taking them. A new location needs to be found for most of the population of Gaza.

 

[Bradskii]

I am pleased other countries are taking them. A new location needs to be found for most of the population of Gaza.

Sorry, was that an apology for accusing Australia of not doing anything and not caring?

How about a comment on the GOP's views of helping out? Or did the emphasis on other countries in the above mean that you are glad that you don't have to bother?

 

[Valletta]

Sorry, was that an apology for accusing Australia of not doing anything and not caring?

How about a comment on the GOP's views of helping out? Or did the emphasis on other countries in the above mean that you are glad that you don't have to bother?

According to a poll, three quarters of the Palestinians supported the massacre of Israelis. So no, I sure don't want that portion in the U.S. I welcome every Muslim (and anyone else) who wants to strive for the principles upon which our nation was founded and wants to assimilate into our culture. They can bring some of their culture, which has been a good thing, but not try and impose it on everyone else. Any immigrant who backs genocide or has the idea to impose a caliphate, wants sharia law, or just wants to benefit without working should go elsewhere. I think the Palestinians would do much better in Muslim countries such as Iran.

 

[Philip_B]

I am pleased other countries are taking them. A new location needs to be found for most of the population of Gaza.

This response is ringing a failure to understand, for what is at stake here is the universal human need to belong, and express something of that belonging with place. The ancient people of the book have long desired to return to the homeland, given to their father Abraham. Yet this land is also the homeland of the Palestinian people who also see themselves as descendants of Abraham and so they are generally all Semitic people (from the seed of Abraham). The answers are not easy, and giving them South Dakota will not fix the problem, and would probably make the residents of South Dakota a little unhappy.