Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Bradskii]

Still can't bring yourself to answer the question, can you?

Because it's a mostrously idiotic question. I really do my best to avoid answering them because it gives the person who asked it the impression that it was worth asking in the first instance and worth answering in the second. It wasn't, on both counts. A two year old can pull a trigger. An eight year old can wear an explosive vest. But while you were formulating such a bell ringer of a question you have let the point of the discussion wander off again. Allow me to retrieve it for you.

The point of the discussion is the unholy death toll. Which includes a very large number of innocent people. Including children. And rather than continuing to deny the undeniable, you and some others have thought it would be a really good idea to suggest that hey, children can be valid targets as well! Therefore, so the appalling logic dictates, the death toll isn't so bad as is claimed.

 

[Bradskii]

I don't mind reading stuff but my questions remain.

So does my response. Go look it up.

 

[Bradskii]

Exactly who has done that?

What? Just...What?

You just posted a large number of links telling us that young people can be coerced into taking up arms and wear explosives. What in heaven's name do you mean 'who has done that'? You just did.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So does my response. Go look it up.

Got it - agree with your sources or take a hike...

 

[Bradskii]

Got it - agree with your sources or take a hike...

Quite a few people have posted various links to various organisations and other links to indicate how authorative they are. That would include info from the IDF. So agree or disagree with them as you please. Or you can go hiking. Frankly, I could care less because you seem to prefer spending more time not reading the reports than trying to discount that which you have told us you haven't read.

This line of discussion is now over.

 

[o_mlly]

And posting a picture of a ten year old with a gun is how you indicate that.

Your posts remind me of a broken record I used to own. Had to throw it out ... didn't mind too much ... it only had one lyric.

 

[o_mlly]

The ratio is significantly higher than the average civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world during the 20th century

Corrections from your source:

This article was amended on 9 and 10 December 2023. +972 Magazine is an Israeli-Palestinian publication, rather than Israeli. And an earlier subheading said the proportion of civilian deaths was higher than that in all world conflicts in the 20th century; this should have referred to it being higher than the average proportion of civilian deaths in these conflicts.​

​

You posted on December 17, 2023. Could you at least be honest?

 

[o_mlly]

Because it's a mostrously idiotic question. I really do my best to avoid answering them because it gives the person who asked it the impression that it was worth asking in the first instance and worth answering in the second.

Translation: It's a great question and because answering it honestly would disclose the error of my position, I will call the question idiotic to avoid answering.

The point of the discussion is the unholy death toll.

And just what death toll to you think is "holy"? Wars are like that. Innocent people die.

... it would be a really good idea to suggest that hey, children can be valid targets as well!

Classic use of the strawman argument by this poster. No one has posted that innocent children can be valid targets.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Because it's a mostrously idiotic question. I really do my best to avoid answering them because it gives the person who asked it the impression that it was worth asking in the first instance and worth answering in the second. It wasn't, on both counts. A two year old can pull a trigger. An eight year old can wear an explosive vest. But while you were formulating such a bell ringer of a question you have let the point of the discussion wander off again. Allow me to retrieve it for you.

The point of the discussion is the unholy death toll. Which includes a very large number of innocent people. Including children. And rather than continuing to deny the undeniable, you and some others have thought it would be a really good idea to suggest that hey, children can be valid targets as well! Therefore, so the appalling logic dictates, the death toll isn't so bad as is claimed.

Still refusing to answer the question (except with deflection that is). How typical of your responses.

 

[civilwarbuff]

The reasons for the death toll are blazingly obvious. So are the attempts to deny the numbers and to even insinuate that innocent civilians, and children for heaven's sake are all valid targets.

That's what my question referred to.....though I am sure you knew that; deflection is easier than answering a question.
So, who here has denied the numbers? Many have questioned them especially since they come from hamas (I know that you don't though). I question them and would prefer to wait until some organization (not hostile to Israel) actually does a count.....sort of like the finding of bodies in German occupied Europe, after the war, of peoples murdered by SS troops. Gonna miss some but at least gives a ballpark figure; far better than just the 'guesses' (read likely propaganda) made by hamas. And people here have repeatedly said that armed civilians are legitimate targets especially since hamas does not wear uniforms and frequently disguises itself by wearing everyday civilian attire regardless of age. Do you deny that? And you still have not answered the question: How old do you have to be in order to pull a trigger? Would you be any less wounded/dead if shot by a 12yo than an 18yo? There are several occurrences of 12-14yo getting into gun fights (over the last few years) just in my city.

You just posted a large number of links telling us that young people can be coerced into taking up arms and wear explosives.

That's right and the evidence of that has been borne out over the decades with just such actions.....though you might want to clarify 'young people' since that term is relative.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And Turkey won't ratify Sweden into NATO because they 'support' terrorism.

MSN

www.msn.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-hamas-is-not-terrorist-organisation-2023-10-25/

With a NATO ally like this who needs Russia?

Most certainly a fall from the 'Greatest Generation'.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Aryeh Jay]

And Turkey won't ratify Sweden into NATO because they 'support' terrorism.

MSN

www.msn.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-hamas-is-not-terrorist-organisation-2023-10-25/

With a NATO ally like this who needs Russia?

Most certainly a fall from the 'Greatest Generation'.

MSN

www.msn.com

If only the Israelis were fighting Armenians...

 

[essentialsaltes]

A Gaza hospital evacuated​

A nurse at al-Nasr hospital was caring for premature babies. Then he faced the most difficult decision of his life.​

Two weeks later, the pause in hostilities allowed a Gazan journalist to venture into the hospital. In the neonatal intensive care unit, Mohammed Balousha made the awful discovery.

Journalist who uncovered decomposing babies in Gaza is shot, injured​

Television journalist Mohammed Balousha filmed a report about the communications blackout in Gaza on Saturday afternoon, working near his home in Jabalya in the north.
But as he turned to return home, he suddenly fell. He was shot in his thigh, he told The Washington Post by phone on Sunday.

Balousha, who works for the Emirati-owned Al Mashhad channel, was wearing a helmet and press badge. He said he thought an Israeli sniper hidden in a nearby residential building shot him.

[after some hours, friends get him to a medical clinic]

The doctor told Balousha that his thigh had a double fracture. He needed surgery, which could only be done at al-Ahli Hospital, the last functioning operating facility in northern Gaza.

The ambulance headed out but had to turn back because Israeli tanks blocked the way to the hospital, Balousha said. With no other option for surgery in Jabalya, he returned home.

A day before Balousha was injured, elsewhere in Gaza, an Israeli drone strike killed Al Jazeera cameraman Samer Abu Daqqa and injured correspondent Wael al-Dahdouh while they were out reporting, the Qatari channel said.

Al Jazeera said it will refer the case to the International Criminal Court.

 

[civilwarbuff]

If only the Israelis were fighting Armenians...

Then Turkey would be encouraging genocide......finish what they started......

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Journalist who uncovered decomposing babies in Gaza is shot, injured​

Television journalist Mohammed Balousha filmed a report about the communications blackout in Gaza on Saturday afternoon, working near his home in Jabalya in the north.
But as he turned to return home, he suddenly fell. He was shot in his thigh, he told The Washington Post by phone on Sunday.

Balousha, who works for the Emirati-owned Al Mashhad channel, was wearing a helmet and press badge. He said he thought an Israeli sniper hidden in a nearby residential building shot him.

[after some hours, friends get him to a medical clinic]

The doctor told Balousha that his thigh had a double fracture. He needed surgery, which could only be done at al-Ahli Hospital, the last functioning operating facility in northern Gaza.

The ambulance headed out but had to turn back because Israeli tanks blocked the way to the hospital, Balousha said. With no other option for surgery in Jabalya, he returned home.

A day before Balousha was injured, elsewhere in Gaza, an Israeli drone strike killed Al Jazeera cameraman Samer Abu Daqqa and injured correspondent Wael al-Dahdouh while they were out reporting, the Qatari channel said.

Al Jazeera said it will refer the case to the International Criminal Court.

It was 100% an Israeli sniper. We know this for a fact because Hamas would never do this because they would never do this. And we know that Israeli snipers are such bad shots they always leave their hapless victims alive so they can report how bad the Israelis are.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Journalist who uncovered decomposing babies in Gaza is shot, injured​

Television journalist Mohammed Balousha filmed a report about the communications blackout in Gaza on Saturday afternoon, working near his home in Jabalya in the north.
But as he turned to return home, he suddenly fell. He was shot in his thigh, he told The Washington Post by phone on Sunday.

Balousha, who works for the Emirati-owned Al Mashhad channel, was wearing a helmet and press badge. He said he thought an Israeli sniper hidden in a nearby residential building shot him.

[after some hours, friends get him to a medical clinic]

The doctor told Balousha that his thigh had a double fracture. He needed surgery, which could only be done at al-Ahli Hospital, the last functioning operating facility in northern Gaza.

The ambulance headed out but had to turn back because Israeli tanks blocked the way to the hospital, Balousha said. With no other option for surgery in Jabalya, he returned home.

A day before Balousha was injured, elsewhere in Gaza, an Israeli drone strike killed Al Jazeera cameraman Samer Abu Daqqa and injured correspondent Wael al-Dahdouh while they were out reporting, the Qatari channel said.

Al Jazeera said it will refer the case to the International Criminal Court.

Guess if you venture into a combat zone stuff is gonna happen.....

Remembering journalists killed covering World War II

Correspondents covering World War II understood the risks inherent in the assignment, and it was inevitable that some of them would die in the line of duty.

ww2ondeadline.substack.com

And these lists don't include combat photographers in Europe and the Pacific. War is dangerous business; these people know that.

 

[JosephZ]

Guess if you venture into a combat zone stuff is gonna happen.....

Remembering journalists killed covering World War II

Correspondents covering World War II understood the risks inherent in the assignment, and it was inevitable that some of them would die in the line of duty.

ww2ondeadline.substack.com

And these lists don't include combat photographers in Europe and the Pacific. War is dangerous business; these people know that.

63 journalists were killed in the Vietnam War that lasted two decades, and a total of 69 were killed in World War II from 1939 to 1945.

Between October 7th and December 18th (A little over two months): At least sixty-six Palestinian journalists and media workers have been killed, several have been injured and others are missing during the war in Gaza.

Palestine: At least sixty-six journalists and media workers killed in Gaza / IFJ

[UPDATED 18.12.2023] At least sixty-six Palestinian journalists and media workers have been killed, several have been injured and others are missing during the war in Gaza. The International Federation of Journalists (IFJ) and the Palestinian Journalists Syndicate (PJS) condemn the killings and...

www.ifj.org

 

[Vanellus]

Some truth to this.

This video shows a complete misunderstanding of the history of the island of Ireland given that the island was entirely part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland from 1801 to 1921 with Irish MPs at Westminster until the partition of the Ireland in 1921. The island was divided so that the north was majority Protestant. This required a very complicated border which later proved problematic as far as security was concerned. Home Rule for Southern Ireland did not happen until Dec 1922 when the Irish Free State was born. So this example argues for a two state solution for Israel/Palestine with a properly recognised state of Palestine with its own borders and governance without any external military or other influence from Israel or any other country - and that would mean dismantling and removing the illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank. But hey let's keep the ignorant ignorant: they're probably happier that way.

There is of course an Israeli version of "from the river to the sea".

The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977

 

[Vanellus]

Is Cardinal Vincent Nichols the wrong kind of Catholic? Two Christian women shot dead by the IDF while sheltering in a church in Gaza. Oh and for good measure the water tanks and solar panels were blown up by the IDF. The Pope (another dubious Catholic) has called it "a terrorist act".

Two women killed in Israeli attack on Holy Family parish in Gaza - Vatican News

The Israeli military on Saturday entered the compound of the Holy Family Catholic Parish in Gaza, shooting at anyone leaving the church. The victims are an elderly woman and her daughter who rushed out of the building to rescue her mother.

 

[Laodicean60]

his video shows a complete misunderstanding of the history of the island of Ireland given that the island was entirely part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland from 1801 to 1921 with Irish MPs at Westminster.

Thank You for the history lesson. I'm no historian but I do understand the message that he puts forth.

any external military or other influence

But there are outside influences that like to shoot missiles at Israel. I think Israel is tolerant for as many attacks that have happened in the past. If I were president I'd own Palestine because the Arabs are going to hate them anyway. Think about it, if Mexico continually launched missiles at the US they would become our 51st state.