Israel-Hamas Thread II

[rjs330]

Lucky you weren't in Gaza when you did it. According to some it seems you'd have been a valid target.

Yes a Palestinian with a rifle in a war zone is a valid target even if they are 12. Why wouldn't they be?

 

[Valletta]

Yes the vaunted NYT who is famous for their anti-jewish sentiment.

In fact it was the New York Times who so much suppressed news of the Holocaust that was going on in Germany.

 

[Bradskii]

No other country in the world has gone to the extent Israel has to avoid civilian casualties in such a situation.

You're just making things up now: Civilians make up 61% of Gaza deaths from airstrikes, Israeli study finds

'In the first three weeks of the current operation, Swords of Iron, the civilian proportion of total deaths rose to 61%, in what Levy described as “unprecedented killing” for Israeli forces in Gaza. The ratio is significantly higher than the average civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world during the 20th century, in which civilians accounted for about half the dead, according to Levy (a sociology professor at the Open University of Israel).

The fact is that no other country in the world has done so badly in minimising civilian casualties.

 

[Bradskii]

Yes a Palestinian with a rifle in a war zone is a valid target even if they are 12. Why wouldn't they be?

The implications that there are children with guns now seems to be a way of justifying the atrocious civilian deaths.

Let's really be honest here. If someone posted a picture of a ten year old with a gun then the normal, reasonable position by any sane person would be to say 'Don't be so bloody stupid. We're talking about a terrorist group fighting a modern army'.

But the response we get is not for a call for sanity, not a call for everyone to get a grip on reality. The response we actually get is 'Well, she'd be a valid target'.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You're just making things up now: Civilians make up 61% of Gaza deaths from airstrikes, Israeli study finds

'In the first three weeks of the current operation, Swords of Iron, the civilian proportion of total deaths rose to 61%, in what Levy described as “unprecedented killing” for Israeli forces in Gaza. The ratio is significantly higher than the average civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world during the 20th century, in which civilians accounted for about half the dead, according to Levy (a sociology professor at the Open University of Israel).

The fact is that no other country in the world has done so badly in minimising civilian casualties.

Facts - really - the truth will come out when the war is over and the propaganda subsides.

 

[Bradskii]

Facts - really - the truth will come out when the war is over and the propaganda subsides.

Brilliant idea. Let's ignore all the estimates by umpteen organisations (including the IDF itself), we can count the dead when it's all over and then we can decide if it was too many.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Lucky you weren't in Gaza when you did it. According to some it seems you'd have been a valid target.

Anyone with a firearm in an active combat zone is a target.
Once more, how old do you have to be in order to pull a trigger? Try not to deflect this time.

 

[Valletta]

You're just making things up now: Civilians make up 61% of Gaza deaths from airstrikes, Israeli study finds

'In the first three weeks of the current operation, Swords of Iron, the civilian proportion of total deaths rose to 61%, in what Levy described as “unprecedented killing” for Israeli forces in Gaza. The ratio is significantly higher than the average civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world during the 20th century, in which civilians accounted for about half the dead, according to Levy (a sociology professor at the Open University of Israel).

The fact is that no other country in the world has done so badly in minimising civilian casualties.

Imagine if positions were reversed, if somehow Israelis were savages and killed over a thousand babies and children and teenagers and elderly, torturing them in front of family members and then people danced and celebrated back home. You can't come up with a country in the world that would react with so much care, sacrificing their own troops. And realize the polls have shown most Gazans supported the massacre, the minority that did not should have left to safer areas long ago. Please no baloney, it is you are making it up about minimizing civilian categories. The world has defeated Nazism before and can defeat it again.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Brilliant idea. Let's ignore all the estimates by umpteen organisations (including the IDF itself), we can count the dead when it's all over and then we can decide if it was too many.

No... then we can decide what was lies...

 

[civilwarbuff]

The fact is that no other country in the world has done so badly in minimising civilian casualties.

I don't believe any other country in the world has attacked a place as densely populated as gaza. I am surprised that civilian deaths, due to the population density alone, are not far higher. Coupled with the fact they have no safe/secure place to hide (unlike hamas) simply exacerbates the death toll.

 

[civilwarbuff]

The implications that there are children with guns now seems to be a way of justifying the atrocious civilian deaths.

Let's really be honest here. If someone posted a picture of a ten year old with a gun then the normal, reasonable position by any sane person would be to say 'Don't be so bloody stupid. We're talking about a terrorist group fighting a modern army'.

But the response we get is not for a call for sanity, not a call for everyone to get a grip on reality. The response we actually get is 'Well, she'd be a valid target'.

As part of the Arab–Israeli conflict, especially during the Second Intifada from 2000 to 2005, Palestinian militant groups used children for suicide bombings. Minors were recruited to attack Israeli targets, both military and civilian. This deliberate involvement of children in armed conflict was condemned by international human rights organizations.[1][2]

According to Amnesty International, "Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army."[3]

Use of child suicide bombers by Palestinian militant groups - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9

 

[Bradskii]

I don't believe any other country in the world has attacked a place as densely populated as gaza. I am surprised that civilian deaths, due to the population density alone, are not far higher. Coupled with the fact they have no safe/secure place to hide (unlike hamas) simply exacerbates the death toll.

The reasons for the death toll are blazingly obvious. So are the attempts to deny the numbers and to even insinuate that innocent civilians, and children for heaven's sake are all valid targets.

 

[Bradskii]

No... then we can decide what was lies...

So if all legitimate organisations are telling you that the death toll is not acceptable (even the Israelis are admitting to 2 citizens killed for every Hamas terrorrist) your and answer is effectively 'We'll count the bodies when we've finished'.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So if all legitimate organisations are telling you that the death toll is not acceptable (even the Israelis are admitting to 2 citizens killed for every Hamas terrorrist) your and answer is effectively 'We'll count the bodies when we've finished'.

Really - you can trust media during such a war ???

What is a 'legitimate organisation' with no bias?

What Israeli source do you refer to - there are plenty of Israeli sources that are quick to distort the facts. (You should know this...)

 

[civilwarbuff]

The reasons for the death toll are blazingly obvious.

Yep, they are. They are caused my hamas.

So are the attempts to deny the numbers and to even insinuate that innocent civilians, and children for heaven's sake are all valid targets.

Exactly who has done that?

 

[civilwarbuff]

'We'll count the bodies when we've finished'.

Somebody is going to have to and it won't be hamas......they'll all be with their 72 virgins they believe they are to receive......or some such......

 

[civilwarbuff]

.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Then why post a picture of a ten year old?

How old does a person have to be in order to pull a trigger? I was 12 when I fired my first firearm.....which I owned BTW....

Still can't bring yourself to answer the question, can you?

 

[Bradskii]

Really - you can trust media during such a war ???

What is a 'legitimate organisation' with no bias?

What Israeli source do you refer to - there are plenty of Israeli sources that are quick to distort the facts. (You should know this...)

Carl, if you can't be bothered reading the thread where all this has been discussed at great length and in great detail, then I am not going to waste my time trying to explain something to you that you are determined to deny.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl, if you can't be bothered reading the thread where all this has been discussed at great length and in great detail, then I am not going to waste my time trying to explain something to you that you are determined to deny.

I don't mind reading stuff but my questions remain.