A Rapture Causes the Great Tribulation

[oikonomia]

Please stop making stuff up about me. Things I have not said nor believe.

Just stick to Revelation 12, what the text means.

You are absolutely wrong that the focus of Revelation 12 is Israel.

The unquestionable focus and divine emphasis of the whole book of Revelation is "the testimony of Jesus."

Revelation 19:10c - For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.

 

[oikonomia]

You (and most others tbh) miss the actual triggers.

TBH? What does that stand for?

What Triggers both the Pre Trib Rapture and the 70th week? Both happen at the exact same point in time.

The second half of the seventeith week, the three and one half years,commenes after the rapture of the corporate man-child.
That is my emphasis in the OP. The coordination and cooperation of people of God are the drive shaft allowing God to wrap
up the age.

And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Rev. 12:5,6)

At least the "short time" which is the second portion of the seventheith week is triggered by the expulsion of the accuser.
He formerly had freedom to roam the heavens and the earth. After the rapture of the "man-child" brothers the proclamation
is that he has no place any longer in heaven. And he has come down to the limitation of just earth to the WOE of earth;s inhabitants.

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.

Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time.

And when the dragon saw that he was cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man-child. (Ref. 12:11-13)

What triggers the Greatest Ever Troubles on Earth?

Well, the bible gives us both answers, why are we not in the know and just trying to add these things up via guess work?

When Israel makes an Agreement (Covenant simply means Agreement, it is only a Holy Covenant when it involves God) with the "Anti-Christ" who will not be a known entity at the time.

I agree that the antichrist may not be recognized by many for the half of the seventeith week. I hesitate to say no people
will perceive a likely candidate.

(MORE LATER) Israel will simply join the E.U. after the Gog and Magog war pushes them that direction, and the USA crashes to smithereens, which will happen in 2024. MARK MY WORDS, 2024 is the year the USA falls, her money shifting trickery will be found out. So, Israel will join the E.U. angering God, thus the 70th week will start and the Church has to be gone before the 70th week can start, so this event causes BOTH EVENTS.

The Greatest Ever Troubles (Jacob's troubles) start with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact. God's Wrath comes via an Asteroid Impact, then the Anti-Christ will be freed up to go forth conquering for 42 months starting at the 1260 Asteroid Impact.

I think this may be the verse that you have in mind when speaking of an asteriod [or meteor] impact?

Revelation 8:11 - And the name of the star is called Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters because they were made bitter.

If this is what you mean, I do not know if this is an asteroid. It is plausible.
However what I think more important is the prayers of the saints trigger the calamities of God's judgement to commence.

And another Angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer, and much incense was given to Him to offer with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

And the smoke of the incense went up with the prayers of the saints out of the hand of the Angel before God.

And the Angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar and cast it to the earth; and there were thunders and voices and lightnings and an earthquake.

And the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to trumpet. (Rev. 8:3-6)

This is related to my OP. The cooperation of the SAINTS, in this case in prayers for God to act, are seen causing the seven trumpets
of judgment to follow - thunders and voices and lightnings and an earthquake.

 

[oikonomia]

Have you all checked to see if the English word RAPTURE is a Greek word , as I can not find one and a verse where RAPTURE is in the bible , PLEASE ??

dan p

You will not find a Greek word for rapture probably.

Use the NT Greek equivalent of "caught up" or "caught away" or "taken" if you prefer.

 

[oikonomia]

Please stop making stuff up about me. Things I have not said nor believe.

Just stick to Revelation 12, what the text means.

You discuss though in accordance to what I am "making up."
You put the church on the back burner and run to Daniel's prophecies for Israel as the main thing for interpreting Revelation.
It is important to consider the Daniel and the whole OT. It is also important to consider the new covenant.

The focus of the whole book of Revelation according to Revelation is "the testimony of Jesus."
How can "the testimony of Jesus" NOT mean the church?

And I fell before his feet to worship him. And he said to me, Do not do this. I am your fellow slave and a fellow slave of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy. (Rev. 19:10)

 

[oikonomia]

The first five verses of Revelation 12 are a visual portrayal of historic events in the bible. The woman is Israel. The man-child is Jesus.

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the entire prophecy of the book of Revelation.

Worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy. (Rev. 19:10b)

And specfic questions I put to you you will ignore.
Show me wrong this time.

1.) How can "the testimony of Jesus" as the substance, disposition, main characteristic of the prophecy of Revelation not include
the church?

The persecution of the fleeing woman is the persecution of those who have the testimony of Jesus as well as lae keepers.

And the dragon became angry with the woman and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:17)

2.) How can those who overcameby the blood of Jesus and the word of their testimony not mean those of the church?

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, (Rev. 12:11a)

 

[Douggg]

You are absolutely wrong that the focus of Revelation 12 is Israel.

The unquestionable focus and divine emphasis of the whole book of Revelation is "the testimony of Jesus."

Revelation 19:10c - For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.

We are not discussing Revelation as a whole, but what the text of chapter 12 means.

The bible as a whole the focus is on God. Jesus came forth from the Father.

Revelation 11 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[Douggg]

You put the church on the back burner and run to Daniel's prophecies for Israel as the main thing for interpreting Revelation.
It is important to consider the Daniel and the whole OT. It is also important to consider the new covenant.

Here is what I wrote in my post #76...

"The first five verses of Revelation 12 are visual portrayal of historic biblical events to identify the woman in the rest of Revelation 12 as Israel, stemming from a dream Joseph had in Genesis, and the four gospels about Jesus, and Acts1 when he was caught up to heaven."

I never said nor wrote that "the main thing for interpreting Revelation" was prophecies in Daniel about Israel. You are making stuff up about me.

Please just stick to discussing what the text in Revelation 12 means.

 

[Douggg]

1.) How can "the testimony of Jesus" as the substance, disposition, main characteristic of the prophecy of Revelation not include
the church?

Revelation does include the church. But the church is not in Revelation 12.

The persecution of the fleeing woman is the persecution of those who have the testimony of Jesus as well as lae keepers.

And the dragon became angry with the woman and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:17)

Revelation 12:17 is about the portion of the Jews, who in Revelation 12:10 had become Christians in the middle part of the 7 years, who did not flee into the wilderness (the mountains of Israel) in a timely manner, and their escape became blocked. Thus, they become vulnerable to the persecution of Satan during the time, times, half time Satan will have left.

2.) How can those who overcameby the blood of Jesus and the word of their testimony not mean those of the church?

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, (Rev. 12:11a)

Revelation 12:10 is about the Jews, Israel, who will finally turn to Jesus and the gospel of Salvation in the middle part of the seven years.
Revelation 12:11 is about them.

The church will be gone before then in the rapture/resurrection event.

The Jews, Israel and multitudes of others around the world will turn to Jesus - after the church is gone. Those persons are the great tribulation saints. They are not the church.


In Jesus's messages to the church's, the church of Philadelphia in Revelation 3, represents the type of Christians that Jesus promised to keep them from the time of testing that will come upon the whole world.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[Douggg]

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Rev. 12:5,6)

I think you may be thinking that fleeing into the wilderness in Revelation 12:6 is restated again in Revelation 12:14 ? Thus, you are reasoning the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 are both the second half of the seven years, as both speak of being in the wilderness.

Is that correct about what you are thinking ?

However, they are not the same.

In Revelation 12:6, the wilderness is the land of Israel. Following WWII, the Jews came out of the nations to return to the land of Israel, to escape Satan's persecution during their time scattered abroad. For example, the holocaust during WWII.

Differently, in Revelation 12:14, the wilderness is the mountains within Israel. The fleeing to the mountains is something Jesus said to do in Matthew 24:15-21 when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place - i.e the temple mount.

---------------------------------------------------

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 are the first half of the seven years.
The time, times, half time are in the second half of the seven years.

 

[oikonomia]

As if it makes sense that the manchild is meaning the raptured church the fact it also indicates this about the manchild---and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Revelation 12:4) .

Very good I'd say. In ways we may not be certain of Old Testment saints are eventually constituents of the church also.


Actually the special opposition to God's people in all dispensations about the stronger component of spiritual warriors coming forth.

The keywords being 'delivered' and 'born', things not relevant to a raptured church.

Actually, Jesus used the word picture of a travailing mother to speak of His resurrection.

A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow because her hour has come; but when she brings forth the little child, she no longer remembers the affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world. (John 16:21)

1.) Christ is the Head of the church.
2.) Only through the Head's overcoming and resurrection may any of His Body the church do likewise.
3.) The resurrection of the Son of God is spoken as the begetting of a new humanity in the world.
He did not merely "come back to life" but was BORN the Firstborn Son of God.

Acts 13:33 - That God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, “You are My Son; this day have I begotten You.”

"This day" refers in this case to the day He resurrected. This is seen in the next verse 34.

And as to His having raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to corruption, He spoke in this way, “I will give you the holy things of David, the faithful things.” (v.34)

The assault on the woman's child begins as soon as he is born. Obviously pertaining to Christ's birth.

The Catholic Church might like that because it makes such a huge deal about Mary.
That is they would regard the universally illuminated Woman mother as the Virgin Mary.

I would not teach that ONLY Mary is that mother or ONLY Israel is the mother.
I would teach that that mother of the sun, moon, aqnd stars represents the totality of ALL of God's elect on earth in history.

The man-child is a collective group indicated by the plural pronouns of "they" and "them" and "their" and even "brothers."

Who ELSE in the chapter could be the referrent to these passages ?

And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our BROTHERS has been cast down, who accuses THEM before our God day and night.

And THEY overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of THEIR testimony, and THEY loved not THEIR soul-life even unto death. (vs. 10,11)

So yes the man-child is Jesus Christ but Him worked into, dispensed into, imparted into some overcoming redeemed brothers.

1.) Angels do not over come by "the blood of the Lamb" for they are sinless.

2.) Theremaning seed of the women who is persecuted is being overcome BY the enemies of God. That is at least in terms of
severe persecution and martyrdom.

Compare:

And when the dragon saw that he was cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man-child. (Rev. 12:13)
And permission was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; (Rev. 13:7a)

This is not to say God does not nourish her, sustain and protect her in measure during this time.

But the only persons who qualify to be the referrents to verses 10,11 are those who make up the man-child.
So an individual Jesus Christ only is not indicated by the man-child but a corporate groupof people.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child(starting at birth), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron(meaning once He returns, the 2nd coming) : and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne(meaning some days later following His death and resurrection) .

Are you missing this? AS Christ is given to shepherd the nations with a rod of iron SO ALSO are those who overcome given
to JOIN Him in that - " as I also have received from My Father"

And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;
And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received from My Father; (Rev. 2:26,27)

Zero in any of the above involving a raptured church.

How can you say those who overcome through the BLOOD OF THE LAMB have nothing to do with the new covenant church?
I expect an answer.

Christ certainly is the chief overcomer. But He does not do so by REDEMPTION.
. . . they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb (v. 11)

The raptured man-child is therefore a collective of overoming REDEEMED saints.

And besides, looking at Matthew 24, there is no coming of Christ in any sense recorded prior to the beginning of great tribulation, nor during it.

In Luke 21:36 the Lord both COMMANDS and and EXPECTS His people to pray to escape the things of the coming great tribulation.

But be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man. (Luke 21:36)

You see ANY command of the Lord Jesus may or may not be heeded by Christians. That is up to them individually.

In your next post to me perhaps you can show WHY "all these things which are about to happen" should not certainly include the things
of the great tribulation.

Let me see if you've a case for that.

The coming of Christ recorded in Matthew 24 is after great tribulation, Matthew 24:29 makes that crystal clear. If I am wrong, then show in Matthew 24 where it records a coming(return) of Christ prior to great tribulation, or even during it?

I will attempt to show that.

First I wish you would show why Luke 21:36 the Lord's DESIRE that the optimal situation is that His church beseech to escape the coming
things of that great tribulation.

I say that if we insist to not escape but pass through that is on us.
And the Lord is faithful even if we are not to sustain, protect, assist even in our neglegence.

BUT . . . not without learning some lessons.

This following passage of Revelation 3:10 shows that some of the church do not need to LEARN those lessons in the GT because the learned them volantarily BEFOREHAND. And they will be accordingly rewarded with pre-tribulation rapture because of that.
So it is somewhat like Luke 21:36.

Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth. (Rev. 3:10)

 

[oikonomia]

We are not discussing Revelation as a whole, but what the text of chapter 12 means.

I wrote the OP and know what I am discussing.
But the growing number of relevant questions I ask you which you ignore, stifle discussion with you.

You're welcomed to think differently about Revelation 12 from me.
Nothing there for you but Israel . . . via the book of Daniel.

 

[Douggg]

But the growing number of relevant questions I ask you which you ignore, stifle discussion with you.

I responded to your questions in my post #108.

 

[Douggg]

You're welcomed to think differently about Revelation 12 from me.
Nothing there for you but Israel . . . via the book of Daniel.

What event ends the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 ?

 

[Douggg]

I would not teach the ONLY Mary is that mother or ONLY Israel is the mother.
I would teach that that mother of the sun, moon, aqnd stars represents the totality of ALL of God's elect on earth in history.

The woman in Revelation 12:1 is not the mother of the sun, moon, and stars.

The woman in Revelation 12:1 is described as clothed with the sun, the moon under feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.

The woman is the mother of the man-child - Jesus. The crown of twelve stars upon her head are the twelve tribes of Israel. The woman represents Israel.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you need to read Isaiah 66:7-8. It is about Zion, another name for the nation of Israel.

Before she travails and before her pain came (the pain of the great tribulation) she is delivered of a man-child (Jesus).

As soon as Israel enters the great tribulation (the same timing as in Revelation 12:10) she brings forth her children - i.e. that is to say that the Jews will be saved at that time.

Isaiah 66:7-8

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? [May 14, 1948] for as soon as Zion travailed [as soon as Israel enters the great tribulation] , she brought forth her children [the Jews saved, by believing upon the man-child - Jesus].

 

[keras]

It is about Zion, another name for the nation of Israel.

Zion refers to the Land of Israel, not the inhabitants. Isaiah 51:11 and many other proofs.

As soon as Israel enters the great tribulation (the same timing as in Revelation 12:10) she brings forth her children - i.e. that is to say that the Jews will be saved at that time.

This is gross error and never said to happen in the Bible. The false teaching of a Jewish redemption is an essential part of the even more serious error of the rapture to heaven theory. Revelation 12:11 proves that verse 10 refers to the Christian martyrs.

Judgment with unsleeping eyes, awaits all who promote and teach unbiblical fables.

 

[Oseas]

Israel passed through the Red Sea, not the church.

What I wrote are two distincts things:
1 - Abraham's descendants had to pass(past) through the Red Sea, (written in black)
2 - the Lord's Church has to pass(present time) through the Red Dragon. (written in red)
Get ready.

I didn't wrote what you above said, as whether I had interpreted and written that nonsense according your brain and spirit.


Again:

A SATANIC TRINITY

Abraham's descendants had to pass through the Red Sea, the Lord's Church has to pass through the Red Dragon. Get ready.
Revelation16:13-15
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs(a satanic trinity) come out of the MOUTH of the dragon, and out of the MOUTH of the Beast (Beast of sea-Re.13:1-10 combined with Re.17:15), and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet (false messiah-John 5:43-47 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 8-13).

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty.

15 Behold,I come as a thief...

Get ready

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18:8

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon​

~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...
purebibleforum.com


WARNING
1Timothy 4:1-2
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (doctrines of DEMONS-2Corinthians 11:13-15);
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


THE RED DRAGON - BE CAREFUL AND GET READY
Re.12:3-4- Behold a great red Dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads. And his TAIL DRAGGED after him (TAIL? Isaiah 9:15-16&14 combined with 2Corinthians 11:13-15.Take a look) the third part of the stars of heaven...(stars? Look Jude 1:13 and you will know who the stars are).


PROPHECIES' VOICES-GET READY

Matthew 24
4 Take heed that no man deceive you.
6 And ye will hear of wars and rumours of wars(Ukraine,Israel, Venezuela): see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet.

10 And then shall MANY be offended, and shall BETRAY one another, and shall HATE one another.
12 And because INIQUITY shall abound, the love of MANY shall wax cold.
22 And except those days should be SHORTENED, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. -AMEN-
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

ATENTION
GOD shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2The.2:11-12).

ATTENTION : GOD WILL SEND STRONG DELUSION - BE CAREFUL | Friends Of Jesus​

 

[Oseas]

The woman in Revelation 1:1 is not the mother of the sun, moon, and stars.

Such interpretation is ridiculous, a mockery, a nonsense. Furthermore, there is not woman in Revelation 1:1

The woman in Revelation 1:1 is described as clothed with the sun, the moon under feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.

The woman has nothing to do with physical sun, moon, stars. A materialist interpretation is devilish. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.

The woman is clothed with the Greater Light(Malachi 4:2-3 and John 8:12 and 9:5);

and the moon under her feet is the Lesser Light (John 15:26 and 16:12-15);

and the 12 stars are the Apostles of my Lord JESUS - Matthew 19:27-28, that say:
28 - Jesus said unto the disciples: Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, JUDGING the twelve tribes of Israel. (By the way, Israel is full of idolatries and sorceries, whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. GOD shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth. A Generation of vipers, who will not escape from the WRATH to come from now on. Revelation 6:14-19. Take a look.)

The woman is the mother of the man-child - Jesus. The crown of twelve stars upon her head are the twelve tribes of Israel. The woman represents Israel.

No, the woman represents not Israel, by no manner of means. The woman is the Lord's Church. The woman represents not Israel, the Israel full of idolatries and sorceries, whose holy city is sperirually called Sodom and Egypt, the Israel that GOD punished with severe chatisements, and curses, and plagues according Deuteronomy 28:15to68, and was banned from their land from 70D to 1948, 1878 years of severe punishments after they crucified the Messiah, my Lord JESUS. The carnal Israel will be cast into the hell's fire-Matthew 3:7, and 23:29-35 and Romans 2:5-9.

Revelation 1:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you need to read Isaiah 66:7-8. It is about Zion, another name for the nation of Israel.

Before she travails and before her pain came (the pain of the great tribulation) she is delivered of a man-child (Jesus).

As soon as Israel enters the great tribulation (the same timing as in Revelation 12:10) she brings forth her children - i.e. that is to say that the Jews will be saved at that time.

Isaiah 66:7-8

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? [May 14, 1948] for as soon as Zion travailed [as soon as Israel enters the great tribulation] , she brought forth her children [the Jews saved, by believing upon the man-child - Jesus].

Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock-Genesis 3:1- , not from GOD's perspective.-Matthew 16:23

 

[Douggg]

What I wrote are two distincts things:
1 - Abraham's descendants had to pass(past) through the Red Sea, (written in black)
2 - the Lord's Church has to pass(present time) through the Red Dragon. (written in red)
Get ready.

I didn't wrote what you above said, as whether I had interpreted and written that nonsense according your brain and spirit.

What is the connection you are making between 1 and 2 ? The word "red"?

And how does a person pass through a Dragon ? By being eaten by the Dragon, digested, and coming out the other end ?

 

[Douggg]

This is gross error and never said to happen in the Bible. The false teaching of a Jewish redemption is an essential part of the even more serious error of the rapture to heaven theory. Revelation 12:11 proves that verse 10 refers to the Christian martyrs.

The church did not give birth to Jesus. Instead, Jesus built the church, Matthew 16:15-19.

The description of the woman in Revelation 12:1 does not fit that of the church, but Israel.

Revelaiton 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:11 does not prove that verse 10 refers to " the church". The Jews will have become believers in Jesus and the gospel of salvation, but they are not the church. The Jews who become martyrs in Revelation 12:11 are part of the great tribulation saints.

Revelation 15:
1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 13:
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

[oikonomia]

The woman in Revelation 12:1 is not the mother of the sun, moon, and stars.

I never said she was.