A Rapture Causes the Great Tribulation

[oikonomia]

The brothers in heaven are the rapture/resurrected event Christians, agreed.

But verse five, the man-child caught up is not referring to them, but Jesus.

Why could verse five not refer to "brothers" who are filled with Jesus?

If it does refer to the overcoming brothers does that rob Jesus of His unique glory?

If it does refer to overcoming saints through Jesus and by Jesus does it mean Jesus did not ascend
from the earth to the heavens?

We know from Genesis 3:15 that the seed of the woman, Christ, is prophesied to crush the serpent's head. Right?
And I will put enmity / Between you and the woman / And between your seed and her seed; / He will bruise you on the head, / But you will bruise him on the heel.

But we also know from Romans 16:20 that the prevailing and triumphant churching saints will likewise soon crush Satan under THEIR feet.
Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

So to believe that this man-child could only be the indiviual Jesus is unnecessarily limiting.
It does not believe enough imo. And to take it as it apparently is, a collective, who overcome THROUGH Jesus and His work only brings more glory to Him.

You see the glory of eternity is in Christ Jesus and in His church.
To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen. (Eph. 3:21)

 

[oikonomia]

As you say there will be many who overcome during the great tribulation - although they missed the raptured/resurrection event.

Revelation 12:10 is speaking specifically about the Jews which make up Israel, the woman in Revelation 12.

Revelation 12, the focus is on the woman Israel throughout chapter.

The 7 years in Revelation 12 are the 7 years 70th week of Daniel 9:27 determined upon Daniel's people the Jews, and Jerusalem (Daniel 9:24).

I find it customary that some dear Christians seem bored with the church. And they emphasis Israel many places where
they may have given up on a victorious church. When there is talk about the kingdom they go on and on about Israel forgetting
that to "reign in life" in this age is to "reign with Him" in the millennium.

Revelation 12:10 speaks of those who overcome by the blood of the Lamb,
Are you saying only Jews overcome by the redemption of Christ and not the blood bought members of His church?

I reserve the right to not EXCLUDE us churching people from those who can overcome the accuser "by the [redemptive] blood of the Lamb."

Now this woman of light I explained stood for the totality of God's elect people on earth in all history.
The crown over her head representing the pre-law patriarchs exaulted as hereos of the faith.
The major part of her body clothed with the sun represents the new covenant saints in Christ, Ie. the sun rising from on high (Luke 1:78).
Because of the merciful compassions of our God, in which the rising sun will visit us from on high,

The moon being a reflected light of the sun, should stand for the saints of the law, the old covenant.
It is unerneath her feet because the whole Body stands in grace with the Law subject TO her.

Further evidence that she is comprised of Old Testament and New Testament believers is that
the persecution of her on earth is the persecution of believers in Jesus and those who still believe in keeping the law.
Some Jews will not be enlightened as a national entity until the end. The conjunction "and" joins the two groups together.

Revelation 12:17 - And the dragon became angry with the woman and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

1.) those who keep the commandments of God means yet to be enlightened preserved Jews.

2.) those who . . . have the testimony of Jesus means the Christian church.

The vision of the universally bright woman is similar to the vision Joseph had of all of God's elect on earth
at his time, namely his father, mother, and eleven brothers. (Gen. 37:9)

And he had still another dream and told it to his brothers and said, Now I have had another dream: There were the sun and the moon and eleven stars, bowing down to me.

 

[oikonomia]

Revelation 12, the focus is on the woman Israel throughout chapter.

The 7 years in Revelation 12 are the 7 years 70th week of Daniel 9:27 determined upon Daniel's people the Jews, and Jerusalem (Daniel 9:24).

Douggg, HALF (1,260 days) of the seven years commences after the man-child is raptured to God and to His throne.

And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Rev. 12:5,6)

Are you a Preterist saying for that 1,260 days special persecution was leveled at the Christian church?
Now there was persecution of Christians following His ascension, but for some special 1,260 days ?

Jesus did not ascend immediately after being born of the virgin Mary.
Making the bright woman Mary makes too much of her.
And making the bright woman only Israel unnecessarily limits God's Wife of ALL His people, the final New Jerusalem.

Understanding the bright woman as the entire elect of God throughout history includes the patriarchs before the Law, Israel, and the new testament church.

 

[Douggg]

Why could verse five not refer to "brothers" who are filled with Jesus?

The woman in the first five verses of Revelation 12 gives birth to the man-child.

The woman Israel did not give birth to the church. The man-child Jesus built the church, Matthew 16:17-19.

So to believe that this man-child could only be the indiviual Jesus is unnecessarily limiting.
It does not believe enough imo. And to take it as it apparently is, a collective, who overcome THROUGH Jesus and His work only brings more glory to Him.

You see the glory of eternity is in Christ Jesus and in His church.
To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen. (Eph. 3:21)

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 make up the 7 years 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, Daniel 9:24.

The church does not have a 7-year period of time assigned to it.

----------------------------------------------

The rapture/resurrection event is for the living in Christ and the dead in Christ. There is nothing in Revelation 12 about a resurrection. Revelation 12 is about Israel, the Jews, what shall happen to them in end times.

They will be subject to Satan's wrath, persecution - except them who flee into the wilderness right away when they see the abomination of desolation standing on the temple mount.

In 1Thessalonians5, Paul states that the church is not appointed to wrath. So the church will have been raptured/resurrected before the time of Satan's wrath of the time, times, half time that he will have left.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, HALF (1,260 days) of the seven years commences after the man-child is raptured to God and to His throne.

And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Rev. 12:5,6)

Are you a Preterist saying for that 1,260 days special persecution was leveled at the Christian church?

The first five verses of Revelation 12 are a visual portrayal of historic events in the bible. The woman is Israel. The man-child is Jesus.

Then verses 6-17 are endtimes about what the Jews, Israel, will experience in the end times.

Nothing in Revelation 12 applies to the church.

The 1260 days have nothing to do with the church. I am not a preterist. If you look to the left below my screen-name, it says "anytime rapture, non-denominationalist, futurist"

 

[oikonomia]

The woman in the first five verses of Revelation 12 gives birth to the man-child.

It is important to give heed to all the details of this women. She cries out - "And she was with child, and she cried out, travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth." (v.2)

This crying out we take as prayer. Both the pre-church saints and the church saints PRAY, crying out for God to perform His will.
This petitioning cry to God is not unique only to Israel. All the saints of God cry out. God obtains from them a minority of
stronger ones who He can use to fight successfuly advancing His will.

All Israel cried out for victory over the Midianites. But when it came to a victorious army God used Gideon and a small
army of three hundred. Twenty two thousand Jews went home rather than fight.

And Jehovah said to Gideon, The people with you are too many for Me to deliver Midian into their hand; Israel might vaunt himself against Me, saying, My own hand has saved me.

Now then proclaim in the hearing of the people, saying, Whoever is afraid and trembling should return and depart from here. And twenty-two thousand of the people returned, and ten thousand remained. (Judges 7:2,3)

Then God instructed Gideon to send send home another from a group of tenthousand remaining until there were only
a remnant of three hundred.

And Jehovah said to Gideon, Through the three hundred men who lapped I will save you, and I will deliver Midian into your hand. But let all the other people go, each to his own place. (v.7)

1.) All of the 10,000+22,000 earnestly wanted Israel to be victoriusly liberated. They all probably cried out for this.
2.) However only 300 did God deem ready, prepared, suitable to secure the liberation on thier behalf.

All the things written in the Old Testamnt were written for our admonition in the new covenant.

For the things that were written previously were written for our instruction, in order that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. (Rom. 15:4)

Revelation chapters two and three gives heads up that among the greater majority of churching people
a call is given to SOME to overcome. This call to reward those who overcome is repeated seven times.

So the ones who are the stronger part of the larger body are selected from both the pre-church age and the church age to be
the man-child resurrected and raptured. You and I may be a part of that man-child. How do we know we cannot if we die strongly testifying
the Lord's effective salvation.

And if we be not asleep but alive near the 1,260 days and are watching, we too may enjoy a pre-tribulation rapture in principle
like that of the manchild. (Matt. 24:37-42)

For just as the days of Noah were, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day in which Noah entered into the ark, And they did not know that judgment was coming until the flood came and took all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

At that time two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes.

The woman Israel did not give birth to the church. The man-child Jesus built the church, Matthew 16:17-19.

In a sense the crying out in prayer nation of Israel DID indeed cause God to answer their cries and bring forth from Israel Christ.
And Christ is the Head of the church.

Have you not read of the pleadings for the Messiah to come in the OT?
Have you not read in Luke of the prayers of godly Jews like Simeon (Luke 2:25-29)?
Have you not read of the constant prayers of Anna the prophetess (Luke 2:36-37)?

In the same manner in the new covenant age churching saints cry out in prayer for God to complete
His plan.

So the delivering mother (all God's people through history) cries out for God to finally bring in in full His kingdom.

If you do not believe this that is ok. Some of us surely do believe this.

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 make up the 7 years 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The most important thing here is that it is the resurrection and rapture of the man-child that triggers the final events.
And it is most important that the rapture of some then living and watching trigger the final events.

It is curious that Christians want to assign all kingom matters to Israel. They seemed resigned to the church being a defeated anti-climax.
But the churching people may have the kingdom of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit in this age.

Romans 14:7 - For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Reigning in divine life in this age will translate into reigning with Christ in the millennium.

Second Timothy 2:12a - If we endure, we will also reign with Him;

So if we endure through His grace in the church age WHY is it that Christians so quickly say any kingdom talk
must only apply to the nation of Israel? It is as if they have given up all hope of overcoming NT churching people.

As soon as the New Testament speaks of the reward of the millennial kingdom, it is "Israel, Daniel, Israel, Daniel, not we church age
believers." You and many other posters here have this unfortunate attitude.

"Not us Christians as a kingdom - Israel, Israel, Israel." Then they reach for Daniel and other Old Testament scriptures to
"prove" all such talk must only refer to Israel.

Look, from the very beginning of the creation of man in general, man was to bear the image of God and exercise the dominion of God on His behalf to His glory.

Genesis 1:26,27 - And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
And God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

This is the mandate for created man. This is not just the purpose of Israel. It is the purpose for ALL those in the body of His
people who overcome in cooperation with His will.

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, Daniel 9:24.

The church does not have a 7-year period of time assigned to it.

Time is time. If the church experiences something of the seventeith week of Daniel's prophecy, so be it.
There is not a special TIME for only Israel that cannot be also passed through by new covenant believers. Come on.

The 1,260 days is the last half of the 70th week. We do not know when it starts. But we can ascertain roughly that
when some are raptured off the planet it is soon to start. Probably the believers left on earth will realize that
in about three and one half years that present age will conclude with the dramatic coming of Christ.

This will help them to leave superfiscial degraded Christianity for good. The desperation of the hour will be upon
all Christians left. You and I should not want to be here at that time. But we have no guarantee we will not EXCEPT to
heed the Lord's fair warning. (pre-GT style)

Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes. (Matt. 24:42)

I must suspend discussion for the moment. I have more.

 

[oikonomia]

The rapture/resurrection event is for the living in Christ and the dead in Christ.

If we believe this, as I do, there is no problem to not ALL being resurrected/raptured at the same time.
Therefore a pre-great tribulation resurrection / rapture OR rapture of some living is not a problem.

A pre-great tribulation catching away is extended as a reward to those of brotherly love (Philadelphia) who overcome in Revelation 3:10.

Notice this is CONDITIONAL. Therefore just as the gospel SOME will meet the condition and some will not.

BECAUSE . . . you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth. (Rev. 3:10)

So in ages past and in the age of the last days SOME meet the "BECAUSE" condition.
They are rewarded by being kept out of the hour of world wide trial. They are taken OUT of the world.

Those who died WATCHING will not have lived this way in vain.
And certainly those who are living who live thus do not do so in vain.

There is nothing in Revelation 12 about a resurrection.

Resurrection might be indicated by the BIRTH of the man-child.

Reason: Jesus referred to His own resurrection as the BIRTH of a man into the world. That is "a man has been born into the world"
was used as an expression describing Christ own resurrection in power.

John 16:20-22 -
Truly, truly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.

A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow because her hour has come; but when she brings forth the little child, she no longer remembers the affliction because of the joy that a man has been born into the world.

Therefore you also now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and no one takes your joy away from you.

You see Dougg, this has all been thought out very carefully by serious students of the Bible.
I think you should consider what I am explaining a bit more seriously, Berean style, to see if these things could be true.

In 1Thessalonians5, Paul states that the church is not appointed to wrath. So the church will have been raptured/resurrected before the time of Satan's wrath of the time, times, half time that he will have left.

Considering this passage you must notice that it is in the tone and context of warning.
In other words the Thessalonians should live in such a manner that they do not end up where they were not appointed to be.

Consider:
But since we are of the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love and a helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God did not appoint us to wrath but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Thess. 5:8,9)

Paraphrased: "You Christians should be sober and overcome with the provision God has granted you. Then you will not
end up in such a situation that God has not appointed you to."

Isn't that the tone of the exhortation Douggg?

Compare:
First Thess 4:6-7
That no one overstep and take advantage of his brother in the matter, because the Lord is the avenger concerning all these things, even as we also said before to you and solemnly charged.

For God has not called us for uncleanness but in sanctification.

Do you see?
1.) God has not called Christians for uncleaness. So they should live sanctified lives.

2.) God has not appointed Christians to wrath. So they should live sober lives.

In either case the sad possibility exists that the negligient Christian heedleesly ignoring the exhortation MIGHT JUST
end up in a condition or situation to which God has not intended FOR them.

 

[Douggg]

There is not a special TIME for only Israel that cannot be also passed through by new covenant believers. Come on.

Daniel 9:24 says that the 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem. There is not a similar determination for the church of a 7-year period.

 

[Douggg]

The 1,260 days is the last half of the 70th week. We do not know when it starts. But we can ascertain roughly that

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 is the first half of the 70th week.

The sequence in Revelation 12 is 1260 days, then the war in heaven (the second heaven) time, then the time, times, half time.

We don't know what calendar day that the 7 years will begin. But the event will be the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years, by the Antichrist, who will be the newly anointed King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews.

The end times events are centered on Israel, the Jews, and Jerusalem. Not the church.

............................................................................................................................

The 7 years are the same 7 years following the destruction of Gog's army in Israel in Ezekiel 39. At the end of the 7 years, Jesus returns to the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem.

The focus is on Israel, the Jews, and Jerusalem. Not the church.

Revelation 12, the focus is on the Jews who make up Israel, and the wilderness in Revelation 12 is in Israel. The two witnesses testify in Jerusalem, 1260 days. Jerusalem will be after their time downtrodden by the gentiles for the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.

 

[oikonomia]

Daniel 9:24 says that the 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem. There is not a similar determination for the church of a 7-year period.

Douggg my point is that there is TIME itself. A special period may be determined for Israel. But this is simply TIME which
the rest of the world must pass through. It is not another dimension.

If seventy weeks or seven years (or three and one half years) is determined for some people on the planet, the rest of the people on the planet must also (knowingly or unknowing) pass through that TIME.

For one hour it is determined that I have a Bible study with some friends tonight.
That hour exists and is passed through for other people even if that event is not determined for them.

 

[oikonomia]

The 7 years are the same 7 years following the destruction of Gog's army in Israel in Ezekiel 39. At the end of the 7 years, Jesus returns to the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem.

I explained what that contradicts that Jesus returns to the Mt of Olives at the end of the 7 years?
What did I say which makes this fact untrue ? Please specify.

The focus is on Israel, the Jews, and Jerusalem. Not the church.

What one has as his focus when reading the Bible may be subjective.

The book of Revelation is about prophecy for-

1.) the church
2.) Israel
3.) the whole world.

 

[Douggg]

What one has as his focus when reading the Bible may be subjective.

The book of Revelation is about prophecy for-

1.) the church
2.) Israel
3.) the whole world.

I am saying what is the focus in the text of Revelation 12. There is only one correct understanding to the meaning of the text.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg my point is that there is TIME itself. A special period may be determined for Israel. But this is simply TIME which
the rest of the world must pass through. It is not another dimension.

If seventy weeks or seven years (or three and one half years) is determined for some people on the planet, the rest of the people on the planet must also (knowingly or unknowing) pass through that TIME.

For one hour it is determined that I have a Bible study with some friends tonight.
That hour exists and is passed through for other people even if that event is not determined for them.

You are 74 years old. I am 74 years old as well.

In your younger days, we were subject to the reinstatement of the draft into the military, via the lottery system.

If a person had a low number, then he was likely to get drafted into the military. If he were drafted into the military, his experience over the next two years was different than the person who was not drafted.

So while they both were on the planet at the same time - their experiences were different.

----------------------------------------------------------

The experience of believers making up the church, them who believe in a rapture that takes them to heaven to escape the great tribulation that will take place here on earth - yes, time passes equally for both the raptured church vs the Jews, Israel here on earth.

But the experience will be completely different during that time.

There will be other persons here on earth, i.e. those who did not partake in the rapture, who will be going through the great tribulation as well as the Jews - if that is your point.

 

[oikonomia]

I am saying what is the focus in the text of Revelation 12. There is only one correct understanding to the meaning of the text.

The avalanch of eveidence I have presented in support of the interpretation I submit, most of which you ignore.
You simply do a "business as usual" shrug without rebutting many points raised.
Some specific questions to you, also you swept aside imo. You simply casually whistle by them.

Your short sighted opinion here, though nicely stubborn, is not the sole "focus" of the meaning.
That goes for the "signs" and the plain text John wrote in some places.

But you stay with it if you are so convinced.

 

[Douggg]

As soon as the New Testament speaks of the reward of the millennial kingdom, it is "Israel, Daniel, Israel, Daniel, not we church age
believers." You and many other posters here have this unfortunate attitude.

Please stop making stuff up about me. Things I have not said nor believe.

Just stick to Revelation 12, what the text means.

 

[Dan Perez]

Why could verse five not refer to "brothers" who are filled with Jesus?

If it does refer to the overcoming brothers does that rob Jesus of His unique glory?

If it does refer to overcoming saints through Jesus and by Jesus does it mean Jesus did not ascend
from the earth to the heavens?

We know from Genesis 3:15 that the seed of the woman, Christ, is prophesied to crush the serpent's head. Right?
And I will put enmity / Between you and the woman / And between your seed and her seed; / He will bruise you on the head, / But you will bruise him on the heel.

But we also know from Romans 16:20 that the prevailing and triumphant churching saints will likewise soon crush Satan under THEIR feet.
Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

So to believe that this man-child could only be the indiviual Jesus is unnecessarily limiting.
It does not believe enough imo. And to take it as it apparently is, a collective, who overcome THROUGH Jesus and His work only brings more glory to Him.

You see the glory of eternity is in Christ Jesus and in His church.
To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen. (Eph. 3:21)

Have you all checked to see if the English word RAPTURE is a Greek word , as I can not find one and a verse where RAPTURE is in the bible , PLEASE ??

dan p

 

[Oseas]

PROPHECIES' VOICES-GET READY

Matthew 24
4 Take heed that no man deceive you.
6 And ye will hear of wars and rumours of wars(Ukraine,Israel, Venezuela): see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass,but the END is not yet.
10 And then shall MANY be offended, and shall BETRAY one another, and shall HATE one another.
12 And because INIQUITY shall abound, the love of MANY shall wax cold.
22 And except those days should be SHORTENED, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. -AMEN-
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

ATENTION
GOD shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2The.2:11-12).

ATTENTION : GOD WILL SEND STRONG DELUSION - BE CAREFUL | Friends Of Jesus​

Greetings in Christ JESUS GOD WILL SEND STRONG DELUSION - THAT THEY BELIEVE A LIE The Word is GOD. Isaiah 66:v.4

friendsofjesus.proboards.com



WARNING
1Timothy 4:1-2
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (doctrines of DEMONS-2Corinthians 11:13-15);
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


THE RED DRAGON - BE CAREFUL AND GET READY
Re.12:3-4- Behold a great red Dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads. And his TAIL DRAGGED after him (TAIL? Isaiah 9:15-16&14 combined with 2Corinthians 11:13-15.Take a look) the third part of the stars of heaven...(stars? Look Jude 1:13 and you will know who the stars are).

A SATANIC TRINITY
Abraham's descendants had to pass through the Red Sea, the Lord's Church has to pass through the Red Dragon. Get ready.
Revelation16:13-15
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs(a satanic trinity) come out of the MOUTH of the dragon, and out of the MOUTH of the Beast (Beast of sea-Re.13:1-10 combined with Re.17:15), and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet (false messiah-John 5:43-47 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 8-13).

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold,I come as a thief.

Get ready

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18:8

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Douggg]

A SATANIC TRINITY
Abraham's descendants had to pass through the Red Sea, the Lord's Church has to pass through the Red Dragon. Get

Israel passed through the Red Sea, not the church.

 

[Fisherking]

A Rapture will be the cause or the fulfillment of prophecy of the great tribulation.

You (and most others tbh) miss the actual triggers.

What Triggers both the Pre Trib Rapture and the 70th week? Both happen at the exact same point in time.

What triggers the Greatest Ever Troubles on Earth?

Well, the bible gives us both answers, why are we not in the know and just trying to add these things up via guess work?

When Israel makes an Agreement (Covenant simply means Agreement, it is only a Holy Covenant when it involves God) with the "Anti-Christ" who will not be a known entity at the time. (MORE LATER) Israel will simply join the E.U. after the Gog and Magog war pushes them that direction, and the USA crashes to smithereens, which will happen in 2024. MARK MY WORDS, 2024 is the year the USA falls, her money shifting trickery will be found out. So, Israel will join the E.U. angering God, thus the 70th week will start and the Church has to be gone before the 70th week can start, so this event causes BOTH EVENTS.

The Greatest Ever Troubles (Jacob's troubles) start with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact. God's Wrath comes via an Asteroid Impact, then the Anti-Christ will be freed up to go forth conquering for 42 months starting at the 1260 Asteroid Impact.

Dan. 8:9 mandates this MAN (A.C.) has to be born in Greece and Dan. 7:7-8 mandates this man has to arise to power amidst the 10 kings (10 = COMPLETION) who arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head (the Complete E.U. Reunited). So, this man is an E.U. President.

 

[keras]

Israel passed through the Red Sea, not the church.

Ethnic Israel was at that time; the people who God was working through. The birth of Jesus as a descendant of Abraham was His plan.
Since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all. it is now the Church, or more specifically the congregation of the faithful Christian peoples, who are the People of God. 1 Peter 2:9-10
Jesus plainly stated that the Kingdom was taken from ethnic Israel and given to the Christian peoples, who are from every tribe, race, nation and language. Matthew 21:43
He also stated that those born into the Kingdom, would be thrown out. Matthew 8:12

Any belief of a redeemed nation of Israelis, is against scriptural truth.