Baptism is a work.

[Strong in Him]

Yikes, but okie doke.

Why "yikes"?
He is the only Way to the Father, John 14:6. It's not Jesus + the law, Jesus + baptism, Jesus + good church practice/correct theology/devotion to church or anything else. Jesus, alone, gives eternal life and has reconciled us to God.

 

[Guojing]

Paul himself says that there is only ONE Gospel.

I suggest you read what he actually said in Galatians 1 and 2 properly.

After the agreement made with James Cephas and John in Galatians 2:7-9, Paul was writing to gentiles in the Body of Christ in chapters 1 and 2

Let's really read the words carefully to understand what Paul is really saying, notice the unto 3 three times?

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul is actually saying if the gentiles are preached another gospel other than the one what they are receiving from Paul, let the preacher be accused.

Can you see you are misinterpreting it to mean "Paul also said if anyone preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed"?

We have probably exchanged this a number of times, you have already decided your doctrine, then you basically prefer to read it into scripture, without actually reading it.

 

[Guojing]

Are you certain that when you meet God, he asks you how you have practised the Great Commission and you reply "well I didn't because it was only for the 11 disciples" (Judas wasn't around then and Matthias hadn't been appointed), that God will reply "well done good and faithful servant"?

Of course I am certain, I am to rightly divide the word of truth when I study scripture (2 Timothy 2:15).

Otherwise, I might as well also ask God to let me sit one of the 12 thrones because Jesus also promised the 12 that

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What is the difference between this you and ye and the same 2 words that appear in Matthew 28:18-20?

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why do you automatically assume that one applies to everyone today, while the other doesn't?

 

[Strong in Him]

I suggest you read what he actually said in Galatians 1 and 2 properly.

After the agreement made with James Cephas and John in Galatians 2:7-9, Paul was writing to gentiles in the Body of Christ in chapters 1 and 2

Let's really read the words carefully to understand what Paul is really saying, notice the unto 3 three times?

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul is actually saying if the gentiles are preached another gospel other than the one what they are receiving from Paul, let the preacher be accused.

Can you see you are misinterpreting it to mean "Paul also said if anyone preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed"?

We have probably exchanged this a number of times, you have already decided your doctrine, then you basically prefer to read it into scripture, without actually reading it.

Jesus taught that he gave eternal life, would die for the sins of the world and was the only way to the Father.
Paul taught that Jesus gives eternal life, has reconciled us to God and bought us peace with God. He preached Jesus. There is no other Gospel apart from Jesus.
They are not in conflict.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus taught that he gave eternal life, would die for the sins of the world and was the only way to the Father.
Paul taught that Jesus gives eternal life, has reconciled us to God and bought us peace with God. He preached Jesus. There is no other Gospel apart from Jesus.
They are not in conflict.

As I said, so long as you make it very general, reducing both of them to about Jesus, you can reason to yourself that the 2 gospels are the same.

Maybe you are more comfortable in doing that, that is fine, I respect that view. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Because I am trying to understand which sacrament brings on which spiritual gift.

all seven sacraments bring a gift, the gift of the Holy Spirit is given in baptism and confirmation, he is also given in ordination.

 

[tturt]

There's "...the doctrine of baptisms,..." (Heb 6:2).

There's 3 main Biblical baptisms.

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus reconcilng us to God (at salvation).
2- By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit and comes upon us (The Spirit baptism)
3 - By another believer (water baptism) All 3 persons of the Godhead involved in this baptism as well.

More details:
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus which reconciles us to God is the baptism at salvation. It's being baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection. We become new creatures in Christ. We will tell others of our salvation. (Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4-9, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13; Acts 2:38; Gal 3:27, II Cor 5:17-18, Rom 10:9).

Spirit and water baptism follows salvation - not in a set order though
2 - By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) includes when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He endures us with power for service to Him, to be His witnesses, and to keep His Word. (Matt 3:11, 5:16; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 8:14-17, 10:44-48, 11:16; I Cor 12:13, Luk 24:49, Eph 5:18, Acts 4:31; I Joh

3 - By another believer (water baptism) Following Jesus' example - though His was not because of sin . "... fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness," (Matt 3:6-16, 28:18-20; Acts 8:39, 10:47, 22:16; John 3:5).

 

[Strong in Him]

Of course I am certain, I am to rightly divide the word of truth when I study scripture (2 Timothy 2:15).

Otherwise, I might as well also ask God to let me sit one of the 12 thrones because Jesus also promised the 12 that

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What is the difference between this you and ye and the same 2 words that appear in Matthew 28:18-20?

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why do you automatically assume that one applies to everyone today, while the other doesn't?

Jesus appeared to Saul on the Road to Damascus and called him to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles - though he debated with Jews too. Jesus himself showed that your premise is false - if the command to make disciples had only been for the 12, he would not have, personally, called and appointed Paul.

You think the 12 went around preaching, "we're going to tell you about Jesus, but you mustn't tell anyone else"?

 

[Strong in Him]

As I said, so long as you make it very general, reducing both of them to about Jesus, you can reason to yourself that the 2 gospels are the same.

There is only one Gospel. It is about, and centres on, Jesus; the spotless Lamb who takes away the sin of the world, the second Adam who came to reverse what the first Adam had done, the One who reconciles us to God and gives us every spiritual blessing. The One whose coming was first prophesied in the Garden of Eden and then though the OT prophets.
God said this himself at Jesus' baptism and transfiguration; "this is my Son, with him I am well pleased" and "this is my Son; listen to him."
No one and nothing else can reconcile us - we who were sinners and spiritually dead - to the Father.

I'm sorry if you can't see that and want to add to the finished work of Christ.

 

[Guojing]

There is only one Gospel. It is about, and centres on, Jesus; the spotless Lamb who takes away the sin of the world, the second Adam who came to reverse what the first Adam had done, the One who reconciles us to God and gives us every spiritual blessing. The One whose coming was first prophesied in the Garden of Eden and then though the OT prophets.
God said this himself at Jesus' baptism and transfiguration; "this is my Son, with him I am well pleased" and "this is my Son; listen to him."
No one and nothing else can reconcile us - we who were sinners and spiritually dead - to the Father.

I'm sorry if you can't see that and want to add to the finished work of Christ.

No need to feel sorry about people who have a different method of understanding scripture from you.

If you prefer not to read scripture properly, no one can make you.

 

[Strong in Him]

No need to feel sorry about people who have a different method of understanding scripture from you.

There is if it means they are changing/adding to the Gospel.

 

[Guojing]

There is if it means they are changing/adding to the Gospel.

Well if I believe salvation today can only be found in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, what am I adding or changing, in your view?

 

[d taylor]

Does that mean one ought not bother to be baptised?

-
​

Well if a new believer understands what water baptism is, there is no reason they should not be baptized. As water baptism is a public profession that they have believed in Jesus. That is they believe Jesus is The only begotten Son of God/The promised Messiah.

Baptism is a an act of discipleship, so if a believer is looking to follow Jesus' examples He lived, in their own life. Then baptism is a good start for a believer.

 

[Strong in Him]

Well if I believe salvation today can only be found in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, what am I adding or changing, in your view?

Firstly, as I've said, this passage does not mention the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that no one can enter the kingdom unless they are born again, and being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit.
I Corinthians 15:1-4 does not mention the deity of Christ - and if Christ wasn't God then the Gospel falls apart. Paul says that the resurrection showed that Jesus was who he'd claimed to be, Romans 1:4, and he was crucified because he claimed to be God.
And you have said that there are 2 Gospels - the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of Paul. You have conceded that both are about Jesus - but only generally speaking. On the cross, Jesus said "it is finished" - not only his earthly life, but the work he had come to do. Paul preached Jesus crucified and raised again, yet you seem to think he taught a different Gospel.

 

[Guojing]

Firstly, as I've said, this passage does not mention the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that no one can enter the kingdom unless they are born again, and being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit.
I Corinthians 15:1-4 does not mention the deity of Christ - and if Christ wasn't God then the Gospel falls apart. Paul says that the resurrection showed that Jesus was who he'd claimed to be, Romans 1:4, and he was crucified because he claimed to be God.
And you have said that there are 2 Gospels - the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of Paul. You have conceded that both are about Jesus - but only generally speaking. On the cross, Jesus said "it is finished" - not only his earthly life, but the work he had come to do. Paul preached Jesus crucified and raised again, yet you seem to think he taught a different Gospel.

So you believe Paul needed to also remind us to read about what Jesus instructed at his first coming for salvation, and also follow those, if we want to be saved?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

As water baptism is a public profession that they have believed in Jesus.

Is that what you think the scriptures teach to be the meaning of baptism?

 

[d taylor]

Is that what you think the scriptures teach to be the meaning of baptism?

For water baptism, yes

 

[Guojing]

For water baptism, yes

Scripture passage?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

For water baptism, yes

Scripture passage?

Agreed, where do the holy scriptures teach that baptism's meaning is "a public profession of faith"?

 

[d taylor]

Agreed, where do the holy scriptures teach that baptism's meaning is "a public profession of faith"?

-
​

No need to post a verse, since your view of baptism is way away from my belief. I will post a link to an excellent articles on the subject of baptism. You can read them if you want.

Is Our Understanding of Baptism All Wet? – Grace Evangelical Society

We Believe In: Water Baptism – Grace Evangelical Society