Israel-Hamas Thread II

[civilwarbuff]

Hamas terrorists branded Israeli children hostages in case they escaped, relative says​

Hamas terrorists branded Israeli children hostages in case they escaped, relative says

The family members of released Israeli hostages continue to detail gruesome conditions under Hamas captivity in Gaza, including terrorists beating, drugging, and even branding children.

www.foxnews.com

Former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett confirmed the details of the branding on social media platform X, saying, "We now know that Hamas terrorists who held hostage 13-year-old Yagel Yaacov and his brother Or, used a boiling hot motorcycle exhaust to ‘imprint’ a burn on their legs as a way to identify them if they try to escape."

"Let me repeat: They took a boiling piece of metal and pinned it to the legs of a helpless 13-year-old captive child," he added.

When a user pressed him for evidence of the claim, he said he met with the children and saw their scars.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Nearly 100,000 Gaza buildings may be damaged, satellite images show​

 

[Valletta]

Nearly 100,000 Gaza buildings may be damaged, satellite images show​

100,000 buildings? It is remarkable that Israel has kept the death toll so low. Realize that in one night of fire bombing on Tokyo by the U.S., on March 10, 1945, perhaps 100,000 Japanese were killed and a million injured.

 

[Vanellus]

All regret the loss of innocent lives in war. Those in this thread who express extraordinary regret for the loss of Palestinian lives and not Israeli lives ought to keep in mind which side is waging the just war. It makes a difference.

Palestinians who do not actively support Israel's legitimate effort to prosecute and punish the Palestinian criminals in Gaza lose some of their presumed cloak of innocence. Not only is the legitimate governing entity in Gaza -- Hamas -- conducting an unjust war but is doing so criminally. The citizens of Gaza have a moral obligation to delegitimatize Hamas, name Hamas as a criminal organization, and bring them to justice.

All Israelis, both soldiers and citizens, retain their presumed innocence unless acts that violate the legitimate methods of prosecuting a just war are demonstrated and proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Israel has lost its legitimacy owing it to its bombing of residential blocks, hospitals, schools, churches. mosques and coming out with the pathetic excuse that these are "used by Hamas" like as if Hamas is using every square inch of Gaza - plus its use of white phosphorus.

Israel: White Phosphorus Used in Gaza, Lebanon.

Human Rights Watch verified videos taken in Lebanon and Gaza on October 10 and 11, 2023, respectively, showing multiple airbursts of artillery-fired white phosphorus over the Gaza City port and two rural locations along the Israel-Lebanon border, and interviewed two people who described an attack in Gaza.

 

[JosephZ]

100,000 buildings? It is remarkable that Israel has kept the death toll so low. Realize that in one night of fire bombing on Tokyo by the U.S., on March 10, 1945, perhaps 100,000 Japanese were killed and a million injured.

The Tokyo bombing isn't comparable. The buildings that were destroyed were made of wood, paper, and bamboo, and incendiary bombs were used. It was a firestorm that killed the people.

Tokyo was a city made of paper, wood, and bamboo.

Tokyo had been unseasonably dry for that time of year, little rain had fallen recently, and the wooden structures of the city were bone-dry. The winds on the night of March 9, and into the early morning of March 10, were strong. Gusts of over 65 miles per hour were recorded in the city in numerous spots.

The heat, which is reported to have reached an unimaginable temperature of 1,800 degrees in some locations, sucked the oxygen out of the air, asphyxiating those it did not simply roast to death. The clothes on people’s backs, those that weren’t on fire from the actual bombs, literally burst into flames from the heat. The glass in windows began to liquify. The superheated air and cyclonic winds from the firestorm blew the liquified glass into the air, where it fell on people like some terrible rain,

Hellfire on Earth: Operation MEETINGHOUSE

The first B-29s over Tokyo were pathfinders. Coming in over the target from opposite directions, the pathfinders dropped their payload, which immediately burst into flames. The pathfinder's job now done, they retreated from the area, the target now brightly illuminated in the shape of an...

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[Vanellus]

The reason you gather intelligence is so you can act on it.

But they didn't act on it and left the kibbutz peace activists exposed to attack.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israe...-laying-out-oct-7-attack-plan-report-alleges/

Israeli officials had intelligence that Palestinian terror group Hamas was preparing a wide-ranging attack before its October 7 assault but dismissed the information, The New York Times reported Thursday.

A document obtained by Israeli authorities at least a year before the attack “outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people,” the newspaper reported

 

[Valletta]

The Tokyo bombing isn't comparable. The buildings that were destroyed were made of wood, paper, and bamboo, and incendiary bombs were used. It was a firestorm that killed the people.

Tokyo was a city made of paper, wood, and bamboo.

Tokyo had been unseasonably dry for that time of year, little rain had fallen recently, and the wooden structures of the city were bone-dry. The winds on the night of March 9, and into the early morning of March 10, were strong. Gusts of over 65 miles per hour were recorded in the city in numerous spots.

The heat, which is reported to have reached an unimaginable temperature of 1,800 degrees in some locations, sucked the oxygen out of the air, asphyxiating those it did not simply roast to death. The clothes on people’s backs, those that weren’t on fire from the actual bombs, literally burst into flames from the heat. The glass in windows began to liquify. The superheated air and cyclonic winds from the firestorm blew the liquified glass into the air, where it fell on people like some terrible rain,

Hellfire on Earth: Operation MEETINGHOUSE

The first B-29s over Tokyo were pathfinders. Coming in over the target from opposite directions, the pathfinders dropped their payload, which immediately burst into flames. The pathfinder's job now done, they retreated from the area, the target now brightly illuminated in the shape of an...

www.nationalww2museum.org

View attachment 339990

View attachment 339991

As I said, "fire bombing." My point was that 100,000 PEOPLE were killed in ONE DAY of bombing. In Gaza it can be assumed that most of the people did not die directly from bombs either, but from collapses due to bombs. Israel has taken great steps to avoid the deaths of innocents, I can't think of another country in a similar situation ever taking so many precautions.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Israel has lost its legitimacy owing it to its bombing of residential blocks, hospitals, schools, churches. mosques and coming out with the pathetic excuse that these are "used by Hamas" like as if Hamas is using every square inch of Gaza - plus its use of white phosphorus.

Israel: White Phosphorus Used in Gaza, Lebanon.

The head of HRW worked for UNICEF and it seems some hostages were held for Hamas in houses of UN workers.
I am mindful of the extreme bias against Israel at the UN in general and take the claims of such observers with little weight.
Let's wait for hard evidence before jumping to the conclusion that such crimes are being committed.

 

[Vanellus]

Is this fake news or what ???

Er there are some Jews who oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza

Palestine is the genocide that we as Jewish people can halt

Palestine is the genocide that we as Jewish people can halt​

We cannot allow the moral soul of Judaism to perish with our collective silence on Israel’s genocidal war on Palestinians in Gaza​

by Amanda Gelender, Middle East Eye

Join the Jewish Bloc! – National March for Palestine, 25th November​

 

[JosephZ]

Israel has taken great steps to avoid the deaths of innocents, I can't think of another country in a similar situation ever taking so many precautions.

Israel could be doing a lot more to prevent civilian casualties.

Using smaller bombs and more precise targeting, for example, would have gone a long way in reducing the staggering death toll we see coming out of Gaza.

While wartime death tolls will never be exact, experts say that even a conservative reading of the casualty figures reported from Gaza shows that the pace of death during Israel’s campaign has few precedents in this century.

People are being killed in Gaza more quickly, they say, than in even the deadliest moments of U.S.-led attacks in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, which were themselves widely criticized by human rights groups.

Precise comparisons of war dead are impossible, but conflict-casualty experts have been taken aback at just how many people have been reported killed in Gaza — most of them women and children — and how rapidly.

More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003...

...the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war.

In the nine-month battle of Mosul, which Israeli officials have cited as a comparison, an estimated total of 9,000 to 11,000 civilians were killed by all sides in the conflict, including many thousands killed by the Islamic State.

In the first two weeks of the war, roughly 90 percent of the munitions Israel dropped in Gaza were satellite-guided bombs weighing 1,000 to 2,000 pounds.

U.S. military officials often believed that the most common American aerial bomb — a 500-pound weapon — was far too large for most targets when battling the Islamic State in urban areas like Mosul, Iraq, and Raqqa, Syria.

More children have been killed in Gaza since the Israeli assault began than in the world’s major conflict zones combined — across two dozen countries — during all of last year, even with the war in Ukraine,

Gaza Civilians, Under Israeli Barrage, Are Being Killed at Historic Pace (Published 2023)

Even a conservative assessment of the reported Gaza casualty figures shows that the rate of death during Israel’s assault has few precedents in this century, experts say.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Vanellus]

The head of HRW worked for UNICEF and it seems some hostages were held for Hamas in houses of UN workers.
I am mindful of the extreme bias against Israel at the UN in general and take the claims of such observers with little weight.
Let's wait for hard evidence before jumping to the conclusion that such crimes are being committed.

Ah yes every country in the world apart from some in the US and some on this forum are anti-Semitic and opposed to Israel. Best let Israel murder thousands more Palestinians or ethnically cleanse them into Sinai or the Med. Then maybe a few years down the line have an inquiry and tick them off a bit.

Israel's Gov't Tender Souls Who Call for an Ethnic Cleansing of Gaza

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/202...b-9c0e-db71-a7df-fdcfbde20000?v=1701470276574

A leaked document produced by Israel's intelligence ministry has recommended the ethnic cleansing of Gaza with the enclave's 2.3 million Palestinian population expelled to Egypt's Sinai peninsula, a move that if realised would constitute a "war crime", a human rights expert has said.

Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, leaked Israeli report says

 

[Vanellus]

Very interesting briefing on conditions the hostages were kept in.....and it doesn't sound like it was all smiles and waving goodbye to terrorists like they were long lost relatives. That part starts at 1:50-5:30. I don't expect the hamas supporters/propagandists here to watch it. They don't want their fantasy land of unicorns and ice -cream mountains turned up-side-down.

Any curiosity about the West bank women and children held without trial by Israel?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Ah yes every country in the world apart from some in the US and some on this forum are anti-Semitic and opposed to Israel. Best let Israel murder thousands more Palestinians or ethnically cleanse them into Sinai or the Med. Then maybe a few years down the line have an inquiry and tick them off a bit.

Israel's Gov't Tender Souls Who Call for an Ethnic Cleansing of Gaza

Israel's gov't tender souls who call for an ethnic cleansing of Gaza | Opinion


Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, leaked Israeli report says

Claims and counter-claims such is the nature of war.

 

[Vanellus]

Abraxos. may I presume that you have heard of Stockholm Syndrome? Photos absent context doesn't carry much weight in my way fo thinking.

They seem to be in good or reasonable health. Again any curiosity about West Bank Palestinian women and children held without trial - how were they treated?

 

[Vanellus]

Claims and counter-claims such is the nature of war.

Newspapers check their sources else they get sued and lose their readers. IDF and Hamas spokesman don't have that constraint. Did you ever watch All The President's Men?

 

[Vanellus]

You really do swallow the hamas propaganda hook, line and sinker.

The pictures are real

 

[Vanellus]

The Tokyo bombing isn't comparable. The buildings that were destroyed were made of wood, paper, and bamboo, and incendiary bombs were used. It was a firestorm that killed the people.

Tokyo was a city made of paper, wood, and bamboo.

Tokyo had been unseasonably dry for that time of year, little rain had fallen recently, and the wooden structures of the city were bone-dry. The winds on the night of March 9, and into the early morning of March 10, were strong. Gusts of over 65 miles per hour were recorded in the city in numerous spots.

The heat, which is reported to have reached an unimaginable temperature of 1,800 degrees in some locations, sucked the oxygen out of the air, asphyxiating those it did not simply roast to death. The clothes on people’s backs, those that weren’t on fire from the actual bombs, literally burst into flames from the heat. The glass in windows began to liquify. The superheated air and cyclonic winds from the firestorm blew the liquified glass into the air, where it fell on people like some terrible rain,

Hellfire on Earth: Operation MEETINGHOUSE

The first B-29s over Tokyo were pathfinders. Coming in over the target from opposite directions, the pathfinders dropped their payload, which immediately burst into flames. The pathfinder's job now done, they retreated from the area, the target now brightly illuminated in the shape of an...

www.nationalww2museum.org

View attachment 339990

View attachment 339991

Something similar was done to Hamburg

 

[Vanellus]

And how does Israel treat those hardened eight year old terrorists in the West Bank - shoot them dead of course (he might be nine so that's alright then isn't it)

Two Palestinian boys killed during Israeli raid in West Bank

Four Palestinians, including two children, have been killed by Israeli forces during a raid in the occupied West Bank, Palestinian officials say.

There's a video that shows this but it's too graphic to link

 

[Valletta]

Israel could be doing a lot more to prevent civilian casualties.

Using smaller bombs and more precise targeting, for example, would have gone a long way in reducing the staggering death toll we see coming out of Gaza.

While wartime death tolls will never be exact, experts say that even a conservative reading of the casualty figures reported from Gaza shows that the pace of death during Israel’s campaign has few precedents in this century.

People are being killed in Gaza more quickly, they say, than in even the deadliest moments of U.S.-led attacks in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, which were themselves widely criticized by human rights groups.

Precise comparisons of war dead are impossible, but conflict-casualty experts have been taken aback at just how many people have been reported killed in Gaza — most of them women and children — and how rapidly.

More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003...

...the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war.

In the nine-month battle of Mosul, which Israeli officials have cited as a comparison, an estimated total of 9,000 to 11,000 civilians were killed by all sides in the conflict, including many thousands killed by the Islamic State.

In the first two weeks of the war, roughly 90 percent of the munitions Israel dropped in Gaza were satellite-guided bombs weighing 1,000 to 2,000 pounds.

U.S. military officials often believed that the most common American aerial bomb — a 500-pound weapon — was far too large for most targets when battling the Islamic State in urban areas like Mosul, Iraq, and Raqqa, Syria.

More children have been killed in Gaza since the Israeli assault began than in the world’s major conflict zones combined — across two dozen countries — during all of last year, even with the war in Ukraine,

Gaza Civilians, Under Israeli Barrage, Are Being Killed at Historic Pace (Published 2023)

Even a conservative assessment of the reported Gaza casualty figures shows that the rate of death during Israel’s assault has few precedents in this century, experts say.

www.nytimes.com

And Hamas is responsible for the deaths of those in Gaza. That is why they need to be eliminated as soon as possible.

 

[Bradskii]

In Gaza it can be assumed that most of the people did not die directly from bombs either, but from collapses due to bombs.

Well, that's so much better. Certainly lowers the death toll as well. Israel didn't kill that kid. He just died when the building collapsed on him.