the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

[Carl Emerson]

Speaking for myself only, if anything God supposedly told someone privately, contradicts anything in the Bible. There are some religious groups around which were started by someone claiming, "God told me...."

Yes, but that is not the issue here...

We have agreement that the Holy Spirit will not inspire in us that which is contrary to Scripture - but our good friend is suggesting that the Holy Spirit can only inspire that which is contained in Scripture. That means the notion of personal communion and guidance in life is snuffed out and the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation Paul spoke of is silent.

The discussion comes back to hearing God in this age.

Those who don't hear God, personally build a theology of silence unless Scripture is being heard.

This is false teaching.

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, but that is not the issue here...

We have agreement that the Holy Spirit will not inspire in us that which is contrary to Scripture - but our good friend is suggesting that the Holy Spirit can only inspire that which is contained in Scripture. That means the notion of personal communion and guidance in life is snuffed out and the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation Paul spoke of is silent.

The discussion comes back to hearing God in this age.

Those who don't hear God, personally build a theology of silence unless Scripture is being heard.

This is false teaching.

Not all of them. There are many pious Orthodox Christians, for example, who are not cessationists and recognize that some people have the charism of prophecy, but not them. I believe God assigns different charisms to us and these tend to be very subtle, unlike what one sees in for example, some Pentecostal churches. For example, I encountered a monk who i was able to communicate with despite the fact he only spoke Greek and I only spoke English, and this to me is clearly what speaking in tongues usually signifies, which is an ability, which the Apostles would have needed, not just to make a splash in Jerusalem on Whitsunday, but also to communicate while spreading the Gospel subsequently, and that is the ability to communicate with people with whom they do not share a common language.

 

[Lost Witness]

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles into all truth, not us.

Revelation of who the LORD is...
Would be a Part of that very Truth..
We're given according to our faith..

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not all of them. There are many pious Orthodox Christians, for example, who are not cessationists and recognize that some people have the charism of prophecy, but not them. I believe God assigns different charisms to us and these tend to be very subtle, unlike what one sees in for example, some Pentecostal churches. For example, I encountered a monk who i was able to communicate with despite the fact he only spoke Greek and I only spoke English, and this to me is clearly what speaking in tongues usually signifies, which is an ability, which the Apostles would have needed, not just to make a splash in Jerusalem on Whitsunday, but also to communicate while spreading the Gospel subsequently, and that is the ability to communicate with people with whom they do not share a common language.

I don't think the is a matter of gifts functioning or not...

I seems to me that Christ within is either silent or not in all believers regardless of gifting.

Maybe some have resisted His still small voice and have become deaf.

Maybe some simply need to learn to hear.

Surely we are led into a dynamic life with Him hearing His personal Word for us and in obedience walking in His pre-prepared works.

This is the ultimate celebration of life - partnering in His specific life purpose in worshipful humility.

 

[Strong in Him]

It’s possible they are a prophet, but it has to be discerned, and one characteristic of the prophets that i have encountered or that I know about historically is an extreme humility. So such a person is unlikely to casually mention instructions they have received from God. Their behavior rather tends to follow the example of our Lord in the Gospel of Mark, insofar as they seek to keep their charism under-wraps, so that the attention of the faithful remains on Christ and not on them, since if someone is openly prophetic, they can distract people from our Lord rather than lead them to him, and in so doing go from being a genuine prophet to a false prophet.

Could be.
All I know is that I have read books in which the authors told how God lead them to a particular house/town/church. One of them even told how he heard God say to him "go and buy that house". Though I have no idea where I read it or who the person was.
The Bible doesn't tell us where we should live, what job we should do, who we should marry, etc.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Bible doesn't tell us where we should live, what job we should do, who we should marry, etc.

But God can...

Case in point 39 years ago my wife has an epiphany and knew she was to marry me - we were just casual friends.

She said nothing for about 3 months, then shared in humility the revelation.

We were committed before God in 3 days and married in three months.

This was an 'arranged' marriage and supported by senior members of the Body of Christ.

There is no way to explain such blessings if God was silent in such matters.

 

[The Liturgist]

But God can...

Case in point 39 years ago my wife has an epiphany and knew she was to marry me - we were just casual friends.

She said nothing for about 3 months, then shared in humility the revelation.

We were committed before God in 3 days and married in three months.

This was an 'arranged' marriage and supported by senior members of the Body of Christ.

There is no way to explain such blessings if God was silent in such matters.

This is a miracle, a great blessing.

 

[Strong in Him]

But God can...

I know God can; that's my point.
The Bible is silent on such matters, yet God can personally speak to us and guide us. And he clearly does.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I know God can; that's my point.
The Bible is silent on such matters, yet God can personally speak to us and guide us. And he clearly does.

Yes... I am supporting your position... sorry if that was not clear.

 

[swordsman1]

So in Ephesians 1 - that is not what Paul is saying.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

You say a silent Christ in us ???

Yet Paul goes on to say...

15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,

The Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation is also silent ???

I see nowhere in that passage that says Christ or the Holy Spirit guides our decisions using feelings or some other form of extra sensory perception.

Nor in any other passage in the epistles.

 

[swordsman1]

Maybe some have resisted His still small voice and have become deaf.

The "still small voice" was not a thought or a feeling. It was a real audible voice that Elijah heard with his ears. See 1 Kings 19:13.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I see nowhere in that passage that says Christ or the Holy Spirit guides our decisions using feelings or some other form of extra sensory perception.

Nor in any other passage in the epistles.

Are you claiming that the person of the Holy Spirit within us is silent ?

 

[Jamdoc]

Oh really??

Barnabas and Saul Sent Off

13 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,1 Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Where's that in the OT?

During the apostolic age, there was more charismatic gifts. What I'm saying is that Paul got his doctrine from the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus. Paul wasn't creating new doctrine out of thin air based on "THUS SAYETH THE LORD"

But largely I think the Charismatic gifts have passed away, they may come back in a latter rain, a second fulfillment of Joel 2:28, but I doubt that is a continuing thing as Charismatics believe. With their accuracy being sub 50% (and really if the prophecy was from God it'd be 100% accurate), I do not think Charismatics and Pentecostals actually have gifts of Prophecy.
and that is what I think largely the topic is about.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes... I am supporting your position... sorry if that was not clear.

Sorry, and thanks.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The "still small voice" was not a thought or a feeling. It was a real audible voice that Elijah heard with his ears. See 1 Kings 19:13.

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!”

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God

 

[swordsman1]

Could be.
All I know is that I have read books in which the authors told how God lead them to a particular house/town/church. One of them even told how he heard God say to him "go and buy that house". Though I have no idea where I read it or who the person was.
The Bible doesn't tell us where we should live, what job we should do, who we should marry, etc.

I wonder how many failed and unhappy marriages have resulted because a man said to young Christian girl, "God has told me you are to be my wife". So she married him, not because she loved him, but because she did not want to disobey the Lord, when it was nothing more than a strong feeling on his part.

The idea that God guides our decision-making by giving us gut feelings/impressions/hunches is unbiblical and dangerous.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I wonder how many failed and unhappy marriages have resulted because a man said to young Christian girl, "God has told me you are to be my wife". So she married him, not because she loved him, but because she did not want to disobey the Lord, when it was nothing more than a strong feeling on his part.

The idea that God guides our decision-making by giving us gut feelings/impressions/hunches is unbiblical and dangerous.

Yes... I agree that those who don't genuinely discern what is His voice and what is not - is a real problem.

 

[ARBITER01]

During the apostolic age, there was more charismatic gifts. What I'm saying is that Paul got his doctrine from the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus. Paul wasn't creating new doctrine out of thin air based on "THUS SAYETH THE LORD"

Actually,....... you're very wrong about that,....

Galatians 1:11-12

King James Version
​

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


The whole of the gospel of Jesus Christ was taught directly to Paul by Jesus Himself.

 

[swordsman1]

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!”

That is the Holy Spirit speaking to the Father, not him speaking to us!

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God

It says the Holy Spirit testifies "WITH" our spirit. So there is no speaking in us or to us involved. The Spirit is a joint witness, along with our spirit, that we are children of God. He does not witness internally TO our spirit, but witnesses alongside our spirit ('with' our spirit). It is our spirit that cries “Abba! Father!” to God (Rom 8:15) and it is also the indwelling Holy Spirit that cries, “Abba! Father!” to God (see above verse).

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is the Holy Spirit speaking to the Father, not him speaking to us!



It says the Holy Spirit testifies "WITH" our spirit. So there is no speaking in us or to us involved. The Spirit is a joint witness, along with our spirit, that we are children of God. He does not witness internally TO our spirit, but witnesses alongside our spirit ('with' our spirit). It is our spirit that cries “Abba! Father!” to God (Rom 8:15) and it is also the indwelling Holy Spirit that cries, “Abba! Father!” to God (see above verse).

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God

Show me from the Greek that 'with' in this verse means 'separate from'