the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

[Carl Emerson]

If "God said" isn't followed by at least accurately paraphrasing scripture (like I get you might not be able to word for word quote something sometimes), then it isn't God saying it.

How do you know?

 

[ARBITER01]

Jeremiah 23:21 “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.” I get so sick of the "God told me, God Spoke to Me" or the "God sent me to hell and back" extra biblical nonsense, it's always someone who says you lose your salvation by not living right, works salvation. Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy, Paul said "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." Hey, we don't need any extra biblical revelation today. God spoke audibly at one time but we have the full word of God now all the counsel of God and need not go outside of it for any reason or any revelation. Watch out for these false prophets who say they took a trip to Hell and came back, or God told them to eat at KFC today or other extra biblical nonsense. "God told me this, God told me that" God says I sent them not, these are false prophets. they speak not according to the word, there is no light in them.

If you want to hear from God read his word. has nothing to do with God showing you some extra biblical revelation, don't go outside of what is written, God will never contradict his word. books read them cover to cover, stop looking for extra biblical revelation, God has given to us all that we need, 66 God breathed books, and they are truth meditate on his word day and night. stop this extra biblical nonsense.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Peter 1:21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Interesting.

Christianity is a relationship with Jesus, not our bibles. I'm sure Paul had to wait for his copy of the king james bible to come floating down out of heaven to him before he could read up on what he needed to do for Jesus, eh????

 

[Jamdoc]

How do you know?

Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

and.. Jesus is known as "the Word of God", according to the Gospel of John, the Word of God, made flesh.
That's the main form of communication with us now... through the written revelation.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word[/b[, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Revelation 19

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

I mean yes it is kind of meta, but that's basically what we have, the bible is about Him and He is the Bible come to life, and He revealed what He chose, and then sealed up the book. not to be further added to.

I suppose the test would be, if I believed God revealed something to me, that wasn't in scripture, I'd have to judge, do I trust this as much as scripture? Because God cannot be less authoritative, He doesn't give authoritative scripture and then just.. well maybe maybe nots to modern church goers babbling repetitive gibberish who claim to have a word of prophecy.

 

[Jamdoc]

Interesting.

Christianity is a relationship with Jesus, not our bibles. I'm sure Paul had to wait for his copy of the king james bible to come floating down out of heaven to him before he could read up on what he needed to do for Jesus, eh????

Paul drew virtually everything he wrote from the Old Testament and the Gospel accounts. They may be passages other scholars glossed over and didn't grasp the meaning of, but I find a lot of times in Paul's letters where basically something Jesus said in the gospel accounts made Paul remember a passage in the Old Testament and Paul went back to it in light of what Jesus had said and revealed new meaning to a passage people just.. didn't understand prior, or glossed over as generic poetry or something.

For instance, 1 Thessalonians 4's famous rapture passage about the return of Jesus, Paul got that not by some vague intuition or Pentecostal religious experience... Paul heard the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus described His return, referring back to Zechariah 9:14-16, and Paul drew from that passage himself. The catching up into the sky? Comes right out of Zechariah 9:16

It's a place that even most modern readers of the bible gloss over and don't catch the meaning of. They think Paul got the rapture idea from a direct revelation that wasn't in the bible.

But if Paul had been doing that the Bereans would have stoned him. The Bereans searched the scriptures (the Old Testament) to find what Paul was talking about and determined Paul was right. Paul couldn't conjure up new doctrines, they had to be old doctrines already revealed, just perhaps misunderstood or glossed over, but in the light of the gospel and Jesus now they made sense.

 

[ARBITER01]

Paul drew virtually everything he wrote from the Old Testament and the Gospel accounts. They may be passages other scholars glossed over and didn't grasp the meaning of, but I find a lot of times in Paul's letters where basically something Jesus said in the gospel accounts made Paul remember a passage in the Old Testament and Paul went back to it in light of what Jesus had said and revealed new meaning to a passage people just.. didn't understand prior, or glossed over as generic poetry or something.

For instance, 1 Thessalonians 4's famous rapture passage about the return of Jesus, Paul got that not by some vague intuition or Pentecostal religious experience... Paul heard the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus described His return, referring back to Zechariah 9:14-16, and Paul drew from that passage himself. The catching up into the sky? Comes right out of Zechariah 9:16

It's a place that even most modern readers of the bible gloss over and don't catch the meaning of. They think Paul got the rapture idea from a direct revelation that wasn't in the bible.

But if Paul had been doing that the Bereans would have stoned him. The Bereans searched the scriptures (the Old Testament) to find what Paul was talking about and determined Paul was right. Paul couldn't conjure up new doctrines, they had to be old doctrines already revealed, just perhaps misunderstood or glossed over, but in the light of the gospel and Jesus now they made sense.

Of course Paul knew various aspects of GOD's word, he grew up around it.

But, he didn't learn everything from the written word,....

Gal 1:11 For I make known to you, brethren, as touching the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jamdoc]

Of course Paul knew various aspects of GOD's word, he grew up around it.

But, he didn't learn everything from the written word,....

Gal 1:11 For I make known to you, brethren, as touching the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Jesus Christ.

Yes, but Paul is not meaning Jesus continued appearing before him like on the road to Damascus and telling him things that weren't in the bible.
as I said. Jesus Christ's testimony in the gospels, about who He was and what He was going to do, showed Old Testament passages in an entirely new light. It's not what he'd been taught, it had a different meaning than what he'd been taught.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hebrews 1


and.. Jesus is known as "the Word of God", according to the Gospel of John, the Word of God, made flesh.
That's the main form of communication with us now... through the written revelation.

John 1


1 John 5


Revelation 19


I mean yes it is kind of meta, but that's basically what we have, the bible is about Him and He is the Bible come to life, and He revealed what He chose, and then sealed up the book. not to be further added to.

I suppose the test would be, if I believed God revealed something to me, that wasn't in scripture, I'd have to judge, do I trust this as much as scripture? Because God cannot be less authoritative, He doesn't give authoritative scripture and then just.. well maybe maybe nots to modern church goers babbling repetitive gibberish who claim to have a word of prophecy.

So the Holy Spirit no longer leads us into all truth because now we have the Father and the Son and the Holy Bible ?

 

[swordsman1]

So the Holy Spirit no longer leads us into all truth because now we have the Father and the Son and the Holy Bible ?

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles into all truth, not us. Read the context of John 16:13. He was giving the apostles specific instructions on what would happen to them after his crucifixion. eg that they would abandon him, they would grieve his death, to wait in Jerusalem for the coming Spirt, be expelled from the synagogues, foretell the future, etc. The "you" in that passage is not us.

As authoritative spokesmen for Christ, the truth would indeed be revealed to them by direct revelation from the Spirit as they wrote scripture and instructed the early church. How did the Spirit guide the apostles? It doesn't say by thoughts and feelings. It says "he will speak…he will tell you" (v14).

Many today say that God gives us instructions by an impression, a sixth sense, a thought or a feeling. But if that was the case there would be numerous passages in the New Testament instructing us to listen to and obey our feelings. Where are they?

 

[ARBITER01]

Yes, but Paul is not meaning Jesus continued appearing before him like on the road to Damascus and telling him things that weren't in the bible.
as I said. Jesus Christ's testimony in the gospels, about who He was and what He was going to do, showed Old Testament passages in an entirely new light. It's not what he'd been taught, it had a different meaning than what he'd been taught.

Acts lists how Jesus would interact with Paul and the other apostles as well as how The Holy Spirit would speak to them also. Revelation is not just trying to apply the OT in your walk with GOD, it is The Holy Spirit providing you direction/insight/faith to a particular situation(s). They were not reliant upon a heap of scrolls they carried about, they were reliant upon GOD and His direction He provided them inside.

The Holy Spirit spoke to more than just the original group, He also spoke to Paul who was our 13th apostle, and we see how He must of spoke to others such as Agabus, when he warned Paul of what GOD showed Him was to come.

We either have a relationship with Jesus or we are trying to have a relationship with our bibles. The later is obviously idolatry.

 

[Der Alte]

How do you know?

Speaking for myself only, if anything God supposedly told someone privately, contradicts anything in the Bible. There are some religious groups around which were started by someone claiming, "God told me...."

 

[The Liturgist]

*Confused* How can the church minister to "unbelievers" and "make believers" if they are not allowed to participate?

Amen to that. Now, it is true the early church dismissed catechumens before the Eucharist was served, and had those who had not yet committed to the church as catechumens, or who were penanced, view the service from the Narthex (the lobby or vestibule of the Nave, the central part of the church where the congregation sits, an area also historically used for some parts of the funeral service). However at present people are largely converted by attending churches and seeing the beauty of the service, whether they are attracted to the preaching of the presbyter or pastor, or the music, or the architecture and iconography, or a combination of these things, indeed also the smell in those churches such as Orthodox and High Church Anglican parishes, and more traditional Roman Catholic parishes and cathedrals, that make use of incense, and also even in Protestant churches that do not use it, there is a pleasant aroma at the Christmas Eve service from the burning of the paraffin candles*

*I find this aroma vaguely reminiscent of the pleasant aroma produced by jet engines, which evokes the idea of travel, and which is present in the breeze at major airports, particularly LAX (actually, paraffin wax can form in jet engines if the fuel has impurities or if it is allowed to freeze: a design flaw in the fuel reheating plate in the Rolls Royce engine option on the Boeing 777-200 resulted in British Airways miraculously making it to Heathrow Airport with no fuel, rather than crashing into the London Borough of Cheswick, but still landing short of the runway resulting in a hull loss, but no serious injuries, after the fuel froze over Siberia on a flight from I think Shanghai. For those alarmed by this petrochemical similarity, I would note some churches, including all Eastern Orthodox churches, use only beeswax candles, and these are theoretically better for the environment, so if this bothers you, ask your pastor to get beeswax candles for the Christmas Eve service. It does not bother me, perhaps due to my love for aviation, although my love for our Lord is greater and I rather prefer to focus on His incarnation on Christmas Eve.

 

[The Liturgist]

Speaking for myself only, if anything God supposedly told someone privately, contradicts anything in the Bible. There are some religious groups around which were started by someone claiming, "God told me...."

Indeed so, if a private revelation contradicts Holy Scripture or the Nicene Creed (which is a summary of what that Scripture states if read comprehensively), it can be asserted as demonic. Specifically revelations which attack the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Jesus Christ, or which contain exact dates and times for the Second Coming can be discarded immediately. However one also has to consider the character of who appears in the revelation. The devil and his demonic minions will impersonate Christ our True God, and other members of the Trinity, as well as the angels and the saints, and anyone else they can get away with, for example, various Buddhist religious leaders (the Buddha was a real person, albeit likely under demonic influence, or spiritual delusion, however, subsequent Buddhist revelations are clearly demonic in origin).

A famous example of a private revelation of demonic origin which contradicts Scripture and the Creed is the revelation of the Quran to Muhammed by “Jibril”, a demon impersonating St. Gabriel the Archangel. Another famous one would be, assuming he did not simply make it up, which is quite possible given how Moronic it is, the revelation of the supposed archangel Moroni (I am not making that name up!) to Joseph Smith, which lead to the Book of Mormon and Mormonism, which is one of the stupidest yet sadly most successful heretical cults of recent years. Forgive me if I seem uncharitable, but the Book of Mormon is seriously pathetic as works of false prophecy are concerned - the Quran, while not without moments of stupidity, and while rather incoherent, also has some moments of literary elegance, and there are other texts of false religions which are quite good, although nothing even remotely compares with our Bible.

This is actually alarming, for two reasons: it shows that people are guillable enough to believe, even after having read the Bible, a supposed additional revelation which as downright silly as the Book of Mormon and the other related texts of Mormonism, such as the Book of Abraham, the Pearl of Great Price, etc, and likewise, the fact that some false scriptures such as the Bhagavad Gita or the Five Classics attributed to Confucius, actually have legitimate literary importance and are generally regarded as well-written means that intellectuals are at risk of being deceived just as much as the more guillable.

Indeed, if we look at the Unitarian Universalist Association, that is a cult the members of which are mostly highly intelligent and often well paid; its members have the highest per capita income of any church in the US, whereas the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are members of a cult whose original premise, that our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ is not actually God, but something less, and created, basically, the doctrines of Arius and he predecessors Lucian of Antioch and Paul of Samosata, are the poorest in terms of per capita income.

 

[Strong in Him]

Indeed so, if a private revelation contradicts Holy Scripture or the Nicene Creed (which is a summary of what that Scripture states if read comprehensively), it can be asserted as demonic.

Regarding doctrine; yes, absolutely.
But if someone says "God told me to move to this country/take this job"?

 

[Jamdoc]

So the Holy Spirit no longer leads us into all truth because now we have the Father and the Son and the Holy Bible ?

John 14

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit works by making you remember scripture and understanding scripture in light of the Gospel.

 

[Jamdoc]

Acts lists how Jesus would interact with Paul and the other apostles as well as how The Holy Spirit would speak to them also. Revelation is not just trying to apply the OT in your walk with GOD, it is The Holy Spirit providing you direction/insight/faith to a particular situation(s). They were not reliant upon a heap of scrolls they carried about, they were reliant upon GOD and His direction He provided them inside.

The Holy Spirit spoke to more than just the original group, He also spoke to Paul who was our 13th apostle, and we see how He must of spoke to others such as Agabus, when he warned Paul of what GOD showed Him was to come.

We either have a relationship with Jesus or we are trying to have a relationship with our bibles. The later is obviously idolatry.

If the "Holy Spirit" is teaching things not found in the bible, especially contradictory to the bible, then it is not the spirit of God.
1 John 4:1 is clear about testing the spirits.

 

[ARBITER01]

If the "Holy Spirit" is teaching things not found in the bible, especially contradictory to the bible, then it is not the spirit of God.
1 John 4:1 is clear about testing the spirits.

Oh really??

Barnabas and Saul Sent Off

13 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,1 Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Where's that in the OT?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles into all truth, not us.

So in Ephesians 1 - that is not what Paul is saying.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

You say a silent Christ in us ???

Yet Paul goes on to say...

15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,

The Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation is also silent ???

 

[The Liturgist]

Regarding doctrine; yes, absolutely.
But if someone says "God told me to move to this country/take this job"?

If someone said that I would be highly suspicious. Since if one says that, one is literally claiming to be a prophet.

Now I should also clarify, for the benefit of my friend @Carl Emerson , that this does not mean that divine guidance through the Holy Spirit does not exist. It absolutely does. However, this guidance is not the same as God literally telling you to do a specific thing, which is rather an experience that must be tested, for if its authentic, it means that one is a prophet - I am not a cessationist and there are certain Eastern and Oriental Orthodox monks who I have met personally that I suspect are prophets, but who do not claim it, and there are still others who have reposed, and been glorified as saints, who are venerated for among other things, engaging in prophecy, for example St. Seraphim of Sarov. But in all cases we have to test whatever apparently divine messages we receive.

And I do not believe that God provides guidance to us on trivial matters, nor does he ever guide us into committing sins, but we can, and indeed in my youth on several occasions I fell into this trap, be deceived into thinking we have received divine guidance that ultimately results in a negative outcome where sins are committed. There is a useful word for this kind of spiritual delusion, prelest, and for a few years in my youth, for about a decade, I experienced this with severity in regard to the passions, but that was before my Christian faith had matured, before I knew what i was doing. I was a Christian but I did not understand the basics of dogmatic theology nor had I found the Orthodox faith.

 

[Strong in Him]

If someone said that I would be highly suspicious. Since if one says that, one is literally claiming to be a prophet.

I don't know about that.
My view is that if they believe God said that and it's not contradicting Scripture or hurting anyone else; who am I to argue? I can't tell someone that God didn't tell them to buy a certain house/take a certain job.
Though it must be difficult for Christian employers if faced with one or more candidates who all say the same thing. (Which I've known to happen.)

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't know about that.
My view is that if they believe God said that and it's not contradicting Scripture or hurting anyone else; who am I to argue? I can't tell someone that God didn't tell them to buy a certain house/take a certain job.
Though it must be difficult for Christian employers if faced with one or more candidates who all say the same thing. (Which I've known to happen.)

It’s possible they are a prophet, but it has to be discerned, and one characteristic of the prophets that i have encountered or that I know about historically is an extreme humility. So such a person is unlikely to casually mention instructions they have received from God. Their behavior rather tends to follow the example of our Lord in the Gospel of Mark, insofar as they seek to keep their charism under-wraps, so that the attention of the faithful remains on Christ and not on them, since if someone is openly prophetic, they can distract people from our Lord rather than lead them to him, and in so doing go from being a genuine prophet to a false prophet.