Israel-Hamas Thread II

[truthpls]

1. Like all of Egypts first born... not really a valid definition.

You are not God and Israel is not God. Israel does not even believe in God for the most part, let alone obey Him or hear Him. So when God does something, it is holy and just. When man does something it is not. God never killed people for no reason. And unbelieving man cannot kill massive numbers of people claiming it is in any way related to God. The devil was a murderer and a liar from the beginning. Sound familiar?

2. Not even close... But what Hamas did to women is unprecedented

You mean the reported rapes that were later called into question?

I challenge you to watch this video detailing what Hamas did to hundreds of innocent civilian women... including US citizens.

I challenge you to make a point and supply a video or other item as a source, in case anyone needs to check. You don't get to hand out viewing assignments here.

Israeli police say extreme sexual violence, rape by Hamas terrorists was systematic

While no victims of sex crimes by Hamas Oct. 7 have come forward, police say they have documented multiple cases and are investigating brutal crimes against women.

www.foxnews.com

Perhaps you think there are people who believe what Israeli police say? We can look at videos of what Gazans say as well. Israel has no monopoly on statements.

 

[wing2000]

After nearly seven weeks in captivity, 24 hostages seized by Hamas in its deadly Oct. 7 attack on Israel have been freed. The captives were released late Friday afternoon at Egypt's Rafah crossing, Qatar's foreign ministry confirmed.

"Those released include 13 Israeli citizens, some of whom are dual citizens, in addition to 10 Thai citizens and a Filipino citizen," the official spokesman for Qatar's foreign ministry posted on X, formerly known as Twitter.

"A number of Thai citizens have also been released outside the framework of the truce agreement," he said.

The deal for the release of hostages in exchange for freedom for some Palestinian prisoners is part of a four-day cease-fire arrangement worked out over several weeks in negotiations mediated by Qatar, Egypt and the United States.

The temporary truce went into effect at 7 a.m. local time (midnight ET) on Friday.

Subsequent hostages-for-prisoners exchanges are set to occur in batches over in the coming days of the truce, which Israel says could be extended up to 10 days.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/24/1215049675/temporary-truce-begins-in-gaza-reports-say-with-first-hostages-set-for-release

+ Israel lists eight members in three separate families, including children ages 4, 5 and 9, as well as several other individuals. Five of the captives are in their 70s and the oldest is 85. Many of the freed hostages came from a single kibbutz, Nir Oz.

 

[Carl Emerson]

While ISIS is ruthless and indiscriminate when it comes to killing civilians, there has never been a single week where they have killed 2300 people—much less four times that many. The deadliest years for ISIS were 2013–2016. There were roughly 21,400 people killed by ISIS during that three-year period. Explosives were the primary weapon used by ISIS (around 80%), followed by firearms (around 16%).


14,532 dead, 35,000 wounded, and 7,000 missing and presumed dead within seven weeks is unacceptable. Period.

Do you think it unacceptable to kill combatants?

 

[Desk trauma]

I notice no Americans among the hostages to be released...

Any comments on that ?

Higher value in further negotiations.

 

[Desk trauma]

Not even close... But what Hamas did to women is unprecedented

It's many things but unprecedented isn't one of them. Sexual violence as a tactic of war is as old as war.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's many things but unprecedented isn't one of them. Sexual violence as a tactic of war is as old as war.

Did you view the video in post #1086?

 

[Desk trauma]

Did you view the video in post #1086?

No, I don't come here to watch videos.

 

[Vanellus]

Exactly. I suppose we might consider the west bank another though

Yes though there are those well armed well protected illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank where one of their main entertainments is to attack and kill less well armed Palestinians who can be shot dead by the IDF for throwing stones.

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202111_state_business

The violent acts include beating, throwing stones, issuing threats, torching fields, destroying trees and crops, stealing crops, using live fire, damaging homes and cars, and, in rare cases, homicide. In recent years, settlers in so-called farms have been violently chasing Palestinian farmers and shepherds away from their fields and from pastureland and water sources they used for generations. They initiate violent altercations on a daily basis and intimidate flocks belonging to Palestinians in order to scatter them.

The military avoids confronting violent settlers as a matter of policy, although soldiers have the authority and duty to detain and arrest them. As a rule, the military prefers to remove Palestinians from their own farmland or pastureland rather than confront settlers, using various tactics such as issuing closed military zone orders that apply to Palestinians only, or firing tear gas, stun grenades, rubber-coated metal bullets and even live rounds. Sometimes, soldiers actively participate in the settler attacks or look on from the sidelines.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You are not God and Israel is not God. Israel does not even believe in God for the most part, let alone obey Him or hear Him. So when God does something, it is holy and just. When man does something it is not. God never killed people for no reason. And unbelieving man cannot kill massive numbers of people claiming it is in any way related to God. The devil was a murderer and a liar from the beginning. Sound familiar?

Yes... but that is not the whole story...

God uses unredeemed nations to achieve His purpose.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, I don't come here to watch videos.

Ostrich syndrome... ???

 

[Desk trauma]

Ostrich syndrome... ???

Claiming that sexual violence as a part of war is unprecedented would require one to place their head in the sand but I am not the one doing that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The depth of Prejudice here is unbelievable.

The only way I can understand it is to see it as a spiritually driven hatred.

I have worked in Israel among Arabs - a much more pleasant experience than trying to dialogue here - that's for sure.

 

[Vanellus]

Such an analogy is outrageous, antisemitic and deliberately provocative.

The fact that the article was printed at all, just goes to show how freedom of speech is upheld in the democracy of Israel.

If Gaza is one of the most densely populated places in the world, how come the IDF which I am told is one of the best equipped and ruthless military forces in the world, only managed to kill after 7 weeks in 2014 (Operation Protective Edge) 2,310 people (and that is a figure Hamas quoted)
Yet ISIS using just knives and AK47's could murder 4 times that figure in a week (And they did it often)
Either somebody is telling porkies about Gaza or the IDF are useless at their job.

The truth is Israel bends over backwards to operate against Hamas with pin point accuracy and strives to avoid collateral damage to innocent lives.

Think about it - Hamas invades Israel with a small band and kills 1200 in one day with inferior weaponry.
The Gaza war has run 47 days.
If Israel was intent on just killing civilians the death toll would be way more than 60,000 by now.

You sound disappointed that not more Palestinians were killed during Op Cast Lead, but to try to put your mind at rest far more Palestinians than Israelis were killed:

Human Rights organizations and the UN counted just above 1,400 Palestinian deaths,[32][31][304] Israel acknowledged 1,166 deaths.[30][305]
According to PCHR, among the Palestinian deaths were 926 unarmed civilians, 255 police officers, and 236 fighters.[32] B'Tselem counted 248 killed police officers.[31] Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights said in January 2009, that 1,268 people were killed, among them 288 children and 103 women, and 85% of those killed were not combatants. The IDF tallied 295 killed civilians, least 709 armed militants and 162 undetermined.[30][305]
The Hamas Interior Minister Fathi Hamad stated that between 200 and 300 Hamas fighters, another 150 security forces and 250 policemen were killed.[306][307]
During the war, 3 Israeli civilians were killed by rocket attacks. A total of 10 Israeli soldiers were killed in the war, of whom 6 were killed by enemy action and 4 were killed by friendly fire.[31][28]

Maybe we can conclude from the above (according to your reasoning) that Hamas weren't intent on killing as many people as possible in Op Cast lead.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Claiming that sexual violence as a part of war is unprecedented would require one to place their head in the sand but I am not the one doing that.

Who said that?

Watch the video then tell me what occurred is normal even in war...

I could be wrong but the extreme sadism by Hamas is something I have never encountered.

 

[Vanellus]

Israeli hard-line minister accuses top newspaper of ‘propaganda’​

[Communications Minister Shlomo Karhi] moved to penalize the country’s top liberal Hebrew daily Haaretz, accusing it of spreading “defeatist and false propaganda” and “subversion” during wartime.

[He] urged the cabinet to halt all commercial payments to the paper

In a statement, Israel’s journalists’ union said that “the communications minister has lost his way” and was making a “populistic proposal devoid of any feasibility or logic.”

maybe manoeuvring for the top job post Netanyahu

 

[Desk trauma]

Who said that?

You are in saying that Hamas did something unpresented in their violence against women.

Watch the video then tell me what occurred is normal even in war...

I am familiar with the acts that Hamas carried out in their incursion, they didn't invent new atrocities.

 

[Vanellus]

Yes... but that is not the whole story...

God uses unredeemed nations to achieve His purpose.

and said who that was in the Bible.

 

[DaisyDay]

maybe manoeuvring for the top job post Netanyahu

Do you think the rumor concerning the Ben Gurion waterway has anything to it? It seems to have been re-proposed recently back in 2021 when that ship got stuck in the Suez Canal for a couple of weeks, then dropped.

I don't think it works as a rationale to squeeze Gaza further, but it is cropping up mostly as anti-American/anti-Israeli rhetoric. The line goes above Gaza and doesn't touch the West Bank.

What is Israel’s Ben Gurion canal plan and why Gaza matters

As Israel intensifies its Gaza onslaught, focus turns to the controversial Ben Gurion Canal Project, originally proposed in the 1960s as an alternative to the Suez Canal.

www.newarab.com

 

[Carl Emerson]

and said who that was in the Bible.

Judges 13:1
Now the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord handed them over to the Philistines for forty years

​

Judges 15:20​

20 So he judged Israel for twenty years in the days of the Philistines.

Judges 2:14
Then the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He handed them over to plunderers, and they plundered them; and He sold them into the hands of their enemies around them, so that they could no longer stand against their enemies.

Judges 10:7
And the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He sold them into the hands of the Philistines, and into the hands of the sons of Ammon.

 

[JosephZ]

Do you think it unacceptable to kill combatants?

No.

Watch the video then tell me what occurred is normal even in war...

I could be wrong but the extreme sadism by Hamas is something I have never encountered.

If you research what happened to thousands of Muslim women and girls during the Bosnian War, you will find that the atrocities committed against them were equally as sadistic, if not more so, as what Hamas did to some of the victims in Israel. I was going to provide some links to some of the testimonies of survivors and witnesses, but they are too graphic and may violate forum rules.