Jordan Peterson

[Carl Emerson]

If you have any objection at all it seems to be that some Christians are overenthusiastic about Peterson, not that Peterson is a problem in himself.

Correct, but we will have to wait and see how the matter plays out. So far I see folks being distracted from the Gospel and Salvation as they hang on his words.

 

[All Becomes New]

The problem here is Protestants who obstinately reject the idea that anything "good and praiseworthy" (Phil 4:8) can supervene on Christianity. So for example, if someone were to read the New Testament, fail to believe, and yet take away the idea that one should sacrifice and endure difficulties for the sake of God, such a Protestant would be prone only to complain that they did not believe. "But hasn't the lesson they've learned been beneficial and important, a step in the right direction?" "No! If they didn't believe then it's just bad."

Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. God does not look at an unbeliever the same way as he looks at a believer. Once you get that down, then you will have a new appreciation for what Christ did on the cross. We are not living for this life. People can give to charity all they want. That does not get a person into heaven. They must have faith. Faith, at minimum, is what gets you in. The Bible says our righteousness is as filthy rags or a polluted garment. Good works apart from faith mean nothing in eternity.

 

[All Becomes New]

The same applies when dealing with other public intellectuals. They might be compelling speakers or writers, and make good points from time to time, but that doesn't mean we must agree with them on all points.

This is a good point. I'd go even further that even some of the best Christian scholars on the planet may not be saved. Theology never saved anyone. People can have the best theology in the world and not be saved. Someone can have the most simple theology of "Jesus loves me," and still end up way closer to the throne than me.

 

[zippy2006]

Correct, but we will have to wait and see how the matter plays out. So far I see folks being distracted from the Gospel and Salvation as they hang on his words.

Peterson is like a magnet on the spectrum. He promotes responsibility, sacrifice, Christian culture, etc. Peterson could have the effect of moving unbelievers towards belief or else moving believers towards unbelief. In our remarkably secularized world, it seems obvious to me that his net effect has been good. Very good. Peterson has spent a disproportionate amount of time arguing with the opponents of belief, and I don't believe he has spent much time at all arguing with proponents of belief. Everyone I know who listens to Peterson has been moved significantly towards theism and specifically Christianity. Some are even now attending churches.

 

[InChristAlone525]

The problem here is Protestants who obstinately reject the idea that anything "good and praiseworthy" (Phil 4:8) can supervene on Christianity. So for example, if someone were to read the New Testament, fail to believe, and yet take away the idea that one should sacrifice and endure difficulties for the sake of God, such a Protestant would be prone only to complain that they did not believe. "But hasn't the lesson they've learned been beneficial and important, a step in the right direction?" "No! If they didn't believe then it's just bad."

Planting seeds in a person's life is good, I've never heard anyone say that if someone read the Bible and didn't believe yet that it's bad, we are praying that they will be saved someday. Peterson does help someone face the difficulties they are dealing with one step at a time, but ultimately those steps need to lead to Christ otherwise it's just good works and the first step of becoming a Christian is repenting of our dead works.

 

[All Becomes New]

Peterson is like a magnet on the spectrum. He promotes responsibility, sacrifice, Christian culture, etc. Peterson could have the effect of moving unbelievers towards belief or else moving believers towards unbelief. In our remarkably secularized world, it seems obvious to me that his net effect has been good. Very good. Peterson has spent a disproportionate amount of time arguing with the opponents of belief, and I don't believe he has spent much time at all arguing with proponents of belief. Everyone I know who listens to Peterson has been moved significantly towards theism and specifically Christianity. Some are even now attending churches.

That's all fine and well. But you admire him for the wrong reasons. You admire him because he talks about Christianity and is not outright opposed to it. But that does not mean he is producing a net good. Responsibility is fine and all but it does not get you into heaven to be responsible. He also does a lot for men who wake up and realize that they should probably stop watching porn and get married. But again, this does not save the soul. I can't say one way or another if he has brought more people to faith or away from the faith. That's really not my concern. My concern is what he says he believes. And what he says he believes is NOT Christian.

One example:

He completely and totally does not get anyone to believe in Christ based on this video. Maybe Lennox does, but Peterson's view does not even try and entertain the idea of the Resurrection of Christ. In fact, he avoids any talk of that whatsoever.

 

[zippy2006]

Planting seeds in a person's life is good, I've never heard anyone say that if someone read the Bible and didn't believe yet that it's bad, we are praying that they will be saved someday. Peterson does help someone face the difficulties they are dealing with one step at a time, but ultimately those steps need to lead to Christ otherwise it's just good works and the first step of becoming a Christian is repenting of our dead works.

I would say that if someone is moving towards Christ then we should not begrudge them neutral viewers. So for example, if lots of Christ-neutral people (neither Christians nor anti-Christians) are listening to Tony, is this good or bad? As a rule of thumb, it is good if Tony is moving towards Christ and bad if Tony is moving away from Christ. So then the question we must ask ourselves is the following: does Jordan Peterson seem to be moving towards Christ or away from Christ?

 

[All Becomes New]

So then the question we must ask ourselves is the following: does Jordan Peterson seem to be moving towards Christ or away from Christ?

He is not moving towards Christ. Next question.

 

[zippy2006]

He completely and totally does not get anyone to believe in Christ based on this video. Maybe Lennox does, but Peterson's view does not even try and entertain the idea of the Resurrection of Christ. In fact, he avoids any talk of that whatsoever.

If Lennox moved people towards Christ in that video, it is only because Jordan Peterson welcomed him as a guest, provided him with a platform, and encouraged him to speak freely about God and Christianity.

And of course Peterson is not explicitly bringing people to Christ. He is not a preacher, or even a Christian. Peterson is drawing individuals into the Christian orbit, not personally transporting them onto Planet Conversion.

In any case, after you double-downed on your silly comment our conversations ended. I will not be responding to your posts. It is not a worthwhile use of my time.

 

[All Becomes New]

And of course Peterson is not explicitly bringing people to Christ. He is not a preacher, or even a Christian. Peterson is drawing individuals into the Christian orbit, not personally transporting them onto Planet Conversion.

The question is why? If it is not because he is a Christian, then what is his motivation? Have you thought about that? See my first post in this thread. He's not a Christian. He is a student of Jung and Nietzsche. Not Christ. If that does not concern you, then you are operating out of ignorance. You have now been told. I cannot change your mind, but I can at least speak the Truth and you will have to decide what to do with that Truth.

 

[Laodicean60]

His wifes miraculous healing from cancer might help.

 

[Danny&Annie&theChristmas]

Peterson seems be to struggling early in his journey. He should be prayed for.

 

[All Becomes New]

early in his journey.

Why do people keep saying things like this? Do you think Peterson had no idea what Christianity was before he was famous or something?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Why do people keep saying things like this? Do you think Peterson had no idea what Christianity was before he was famous or something?

Folks can be highly intelligent yet blind.

 

[All Becomes New]

Folks can be highly intelligent yet blind.

I do not know who you are referring to when you say "Folks" but I just want to point out that Peterson was studying Nietzsche and Jung before a lot of people who defend him were even born. He's been around the block a few times.

 

[Danny&Annie&theChristmas]

Why do people keep saying things like this? Do you think Peterson had no idea what Christianity was before he was famous or something?

How old was CS Lewis before he turned to God? Had he never heard of God before then? Come on man. Everyone has there time of reckoning before the Lord. Some early on. Some later. Why are you so eager to condemn him? Do you know something he's done or said that exposes him as out and out a fraud?

 

[Sketcher]

He's an intelligent man with some practical insights. Last I checked he was still not a believer. I don't believe there is danger for the Christian unless said Christian starts believing that he is Christian without any direct evidence of a confession of saving faith, or the Christian starts considering him as an authoritative source for Scriptural exegesis, or the Christian starts placing what he teaches above what Scripture teaches when there is a conflict. As with many other unbelievers, Christians can listen to what he has to say if they maintain a strong filter.

 

[Sketcher]

I was following Jordan Peterson more than 5 years ago. He's not a Christian. He may be a conservative, but he's about as far away from being a Christain as Trump is.

I wouldn't even call him a conservative. He might be by Canadian standards, but if that's true the bar isn't very high. People on the right embraced him because he stood up to the crazy left. That doesn't mean he's on the right. He might be a centrist at best.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I do not know who you are referring to when you say "Folks" but I just want to point out that Peterson was studying Nietzsche and Jung before a lot of people who defend him were even born. He's been around the block a few times.

Yes but to see is a gift - his time may not have yet come - maybe his prominence will yet be used to awaken many ???

 

[All Becomes New]

Do you know something he's done or said that exposes him as out and out a fraud?

My argument is not that he is a fraud. It is that he already knows what Christianity is. He has studied Jung and Nietzcshe. He is well aware of the arguments. My only point is that he is not moving towards Christianity. People see that he has Christians on his shows so they think he is more open to Christianity. This is not the way I see it. He knows what Christianity stands for. He knows about Dr. Gary Habermas. I linked a video where he talked with John Lennox for a good amount of time and the conversation never got into the evidence for the resurrection of Christ once even though Lennox made a strong push to want to talk about that. People see that he gets emotional when talking about Christ and they think this means that he is close to considering it as true. The thing is, and what I am about to say is going to rub people the wrong way, Esau also wept when thinking about a similar thing, but he wept because he COULD NOT repent. That is what I fear is going on with Peterson when they see him cry over talking about Christ. That is my intuition. Now, I could be wrong, but if he cannot even talk about the resurrection of Christ without trying to psychoanalyze it as a psychological phenomenon rather than a reality, what does that say about him?