Submission, Housework, Laziness, BPD, Marriage questions/discussion

[Larniavc]

Not a lot if you have any recommendations even online that would be amazing. We were fortunate to meet with one of the world's leading experts on BPD. He was awesome and we got to meet him in person when he was touring our country. But those video calls stopped unfortunately. Have been looking ever since.

A lot of counsellors and therapists run a mile as soon as you mention BPD.

And prayer! That's the other therapy.

I guess you’re in the US so access to therapy might be tricky but you might find this link helpful.

Treatment - Borderline personality disorder

Read about treatment for borderline personality disorder (BPD), which may involve psychotherapy, a type of talking therapy.

www.nhs.uk

There is a lot that can be done but I really don’t know how it works in America.

What is dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT)?

Learn what to expect from dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT) - including how to access DBT, and how it can treat mental health problems.

www.mind.org.uk

Find a Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Therapist, Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Psychologist, Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Counselor - Psychology Today

Browse our extensive directory of the best Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Therapists, Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Psychologists and Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Counselors near you.

www.psychologytoday.com

I hope some of this helps to demystify it a bit.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

number of reasons:
1. Im someone she knows will never reject her and she often takes her anger and hatred at the world and people out on me (sometimes my daughter though im fairly quick to turn it to me to protect her). She has told me she knows i will never leave. This only gives her more guilt
2. As a very secure Christian ive tended to be a persevering push-on-through type and often am quite optimistic to her. This sounds good to some people but ive learnt over the pass that for those who are really struggling in life this can sound a bit like "youll be fine! Jesus will come through for us! Just smile and lift your head up! Hope is round the corner" and all that kinda positive stuff. I guess it doesnt sound as understanding? That is not always helpful for people suffering from abandonment. In fact it can make them feel even worse. Ive toned this down a fair bit. But its a challengen without joining her and increasing the depression. Its a tricky balance. But i think this has played a part as well
3. I havent sorted out her social life for her.
4. I havent sorted out <insert thing that she feels she lacks>
5. At certain times in the month she thinks i hate her/thinks shes ugly etc. VERY low self esteem not to mention i do think there is a level of Satanic attack. We both have had very strong prophetic workings in the past. This has really taken a hit on us.
6. Important to note! She at other times doesnt hate my guts..its chop and change with BPD. One day you are the knight in shining armour and they have placed you way up high on a pedastal, and next minute the pedastal has been pulled out from under you and you are being beat with it

Could be more reasons. Im not perfect by far! And i have at times raised my voice in frustration . Am learning to control this. Im generally a pretty humouros person. But as a result i do make light of potentially serious situations (partly cos i know God is ultimately in control). I also really enjoy an intellectaul debate! And often have wonderful excited discussions with my guy mates and my daughter. But the reality is this can sometimes come across as quiet intense for her.

Would love to hear it from your wife ( I know I will not) but can see reg flags all over your posts. It's time to really find out why " she hates your guts". You describe yourself as the perfect husband, OK however, if you are serious about healing your relationship it would be best to start with yourself.
Blessings

 

[jmz]

Would love to hear it from your wife ( I know I will not) but can see reg flags all over your posts. It's time to really find out why " she hates your guts". You describe yourself as the perfect husband, OK however, if you are serious about healing your relationship it would be best to start with yourself.
Blessings

Im not a perfect husband by far. And i dont think ive described myself as that btw...but lol thank you if you read that . Honestly im full of flaws like all of us. If not for the blood of Jesus i would be absolutely screwed. And i am fully aware that this is a one sided story, and would absolutely say to anyone that in any situation (politics, relationships, theology etc) that you always need to be philosophical about this stuff.

I grew up in the pacific islands and i know that the way we approach things there is much more community oriented, there's less of the whole "my rights" entitlement mentality which seems to be rampant here in the west, they also talk more directly, without fear of offense, there isnt this whole "delivery is important". People dont get triggered off the tiniest of things like ive noticed here in the west. Because the underlying thing is people's intentions mean well (unless they are trying to kill you haha). So i bring this mentality to marriage and i think it can come across as callous. When i read John Eldrige books for marriage it really doesnt resonate with me, he talks about all these broken men with terrible fathers, emasculated etc. Thats just so foreign for an islander in many cases. He talks about speaking to women in certain ways, we just dont bother with that side of thigns in the islands. I think this is largely the issue,. I have been taught that intentions matter and are pivotal and that you seek the intention underlying the issues, but it seems in the west its intentions dont matter only delivery.I..m trying to understand the logic in this. I've asked my wife many times to tell me what I need to do and dont get any clear answers.
Which brings the next bit, im very logical. I think that doesnt help and im learning more that in the west logic isnt that important to many people.? As ive been reading on other forums it seems that in some cases delivery is more important than truth?! This also leads to problems. In fact ive had some men say whenever there is a disagreement just say "you are right" and move on (or something to that effect). That is a terrible disrespect and unloving imo. You would never do that to another human (man and woman) in the Islands. That is akin to saying, i dont deem you are capable of adult discussion so im just going to appease you . So i dont do this....which as you can imagine means when there is a disagreement (and they are usually soooo tiny silly things but triggering as ever.) it doesnt go down well. Because i refuse to disrespect her by saying "oh yeah, good point (that woud be a lie if i think its not)".

I think ultimately my wife needs to look to Jesus for her grounding and healing. We as humans are always going to fail each other thats the reality, (hence why i think intentions are the most important). I doubt i will ever learn the perfect speak and delivery mechanism. The reason i can start every day with hope and joy is because my hope is in Jesus not my wife. If i didnt have this then i would be looking for humans for peace, satisfaction and affirmation and the like and that ultimately will fail me.

 

[jmz]

I guess you’re in the US so access to therapy might be tricky but you might find this link helpful.

Treatment - Borderline personality disorder

Read about treatment for borderline personality disorder (BPD), which may involve psychotherapy, a type of talking therapy.

www.nhs.uk

There is a lot that can be done but I really don’t know how it works in America.

What is dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT)?

Learn what to expect from dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT) - including how to access DBT, and how it can treat mental health problems.

www.mind.org.uk

Find a Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Therapist, Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Psychologist, Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Counselor - Psychology Today

Browse our extensive directory of the best Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Therapists, Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Psychologists and Dialectical Behavior (DBT) Counselors near you.

www.psychologytoday.com

I hope some of this helps to demystify it a bit.

We are not im America but yeah DBT sounds good and have had a look at some therapists who use this approach. Just need to find a good therapist (who isnt a feminist) and my wife is happy with.

 

[jmz]

Im contemplating doing regular weekly fasting for this. Interested to know if anyone has approached relationship issues with prayer and fasting.

 

[jmz]

Would love to hear it from your wife ( I know I will not) but can see reg flags all over your posts. It's time to really find out why " she hates your guts". You describe yourself as the perfect husband, OK however, if you are serious about healing your relationship it would be best to start with yourself.
Blessings

Also! Just thought i'd mention, she knows im posting.. We talked about it beforehand i wouldnt be doing this if she was adamantly against me posting anonymously on Christian forums.

 

[Rescued One]

You think a software developer would know that.....

Yeah could do. We did the doctor thing before for stuff without much success. Maybe in your country they're good but in ours they all parrot the same stuff and if you ask them to explain the underworkings they havent a clue why. Some of them even google for a solution while you are in the office with them?!

Thanks anyway.

Sometimes counseling isn't enough or the psychologist doesn't have enough training. The patient resents or is depressed about needing treatment. I don't know how this person can cope without meds.

I've struggled with depression most of my life.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Have been married for approx 15 years, first (and ONLY! marriage). Absolutely love my wife to bits and would give my life for her within a second. We have a wonderful daughter who is the joy of my life and am thankful for God brining them into my life.

Background
First i would like to say that my wife and I are VERY much aligned ideologically. And though she may not practice much of what she believes in she is very much ideologically in line with me, and me with her. You would think this would help with not having arguments...but it doesnt. We both are staunchly opposed to schooling, feminism, leftism and in general even the State as a whole due to its reliance on coercion (for another forum). We believe in Jesus Christ and long for his return . And for the most part even our theology is heavily aligned. I dont know of any other couple that is more aligned ideologically tbh...
Yet inspite of our strong alignment, we have massive struggles, arguments etc. My wife struggles from abandonment and lack of attachment from quite possible a young age and i think this has had major implications on our marriage. She has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. She is very depressed. VERY.
I come from a strong line of Christians over multiple generations and will NEVER give up on her though this also means im likely more of a "just make the right choice" type personality (Secure christians can be a bit "harsh" like this) and she is the first evangelical in what i think is 4 generations (also the first to make it past 30 without divorce). I do believe the devil is with strong intention trying to take her down (and me with her, though he wont be able to Jesus got me)

I make an ok living (~240k annual). Am reasonably fit, keep myself in ok shape (lean muscle, no fat), lead the fam and help out where i can. I use the term "lead" loosely because is someone a leader if there are no followers? And in this case if my wife doesnt follow, then no matter what leader qualities i have or dont have i am by practical definition not a leader. I'm told (even by my wife) that women like a leader. as an ENTJ this comes naturally to me to take on the commander type leadership role and have always excelled in this area and most of what i put my hand to (though clearly not marriage), rising quickly in any job scene.

I will say that i dont get that intimate with her more recently especially but thats not for lack of desire!! (my wife is also flippin HOT though she doesnt think so ) but the reality is from a lot of what she says, she hates my guts, often verbally calling for my death, even in front of our daughter, saying she would rather be with other men (i think she says this to hurt me not because she actually wants it, she hates adultery and impurity with a passion...ironically...). So i dont get the sense that she intends well for us or really wants me. For me to pursue intimacy in this context seems disrespectful tbh and downright rude.
Though perhaps once a month when the hormones have shifted to the "right zone" she "likes" me ...

Basically with all her hate towards feminism it seems she cant help align with some of the feminist behaviour that culture has surrounded her in. Ideologically we are together. But practically.... we arent....

Discussion Points and Questions
1. Practicality - i do most of the housework. I cook, clean, do washing, vacuum tidy etc. Not 100% of the time but a solid 80%+. In fact after being told over and over it wasnt true i thought i was starting to get deluded so i tracked the data for a good few months (and believe me i would hope to be wrong!!). It ended up being worse than i had thought. The reality is my wife lacks motivation to do any of it. My day starts early, i work (from home most of the time) and then im done and get straight into cooking and cleaning, and interacting with my daughter on her unschooling life. I am very grateful and appreciate that my wife will still drive my daughter to a few specific activities but if she didnt i would do that too. Somedays i feel a little bit like a single dad. And it GRATES me to no end when i hear women talking about how their husband doesnt do much!!.... QUESTION: How am i suppose to get my wife to help out? I think my body will handle this for years to come but i dont know,.. moreover im concerned my daughter will learn from this priviledged type state where the father/husband does jsut about everything and the women sit back and benefit off it. And then you hear women complain about the patriarchy.....

2. Worship - getting my wife to church has been incredibly difficult. Again, not for lack of ideology. but because the sense of community and connection isnt there in her mind. She has what i would call a grass-is-greener mentality, that if we just try the next church around the corner after all there's 100s around! That she would find some connection. its solution by numbers/probability. We have church hopped a few times and ultimately ive put my foot down and locked us in for the moment. This partly for my daughter's sake who likes the stability and is getting to know the church a bit more, enjoys the kids program and is learning (she learns a tonne more at home though tbh...im the home preacher with my ramblings about scripture, philosophy and hermaneutics). QUESTION: Do i keep pushing even though it is showing signs of her just not going? My daughter will stick to her mother (fear that her mother might disapear, i think based on an event in the past when she was very little, where she did just get up jump out of the parked car and took off) so if she stops my daughter will stop. Every church we have attended eventually after 3-6months there is enough fall out (differeing opinion, sense of being judged, whether real or not, that makes my wife want to leave). The issue i see is that she has a leaky bucket, her parents didnt give her the love and attachment she needed and now connecting with others is incredibly difficult. Moving churches i dont think will solve this.

3. Marriage - honestly dont know what to say but ...help? Any ideas? Suggestions? "Have you sat down and discussed abc...." btw is not a solution. This requires two reasonably stable, sane people who can have adult conversation. I can have far more contreversial differing heavily opionated conversation with my daughter and its wonderful and even fun then a slight deviation of opinion with my wife. She says she doesnt mind people having different opinions but i think she reads differing opinions as judgements against her. Part of the issue is my wife and I are both intellectuals by personality traits. She's INTJ and im ENTJ. However due to insecurities from her child hood and i think also as a woman the delivery of information is just as important (if not more) than the actual content. The concept that truth isnt as important as the delivery is a saddening thought and i think a constant issue in todays societies of broken insecure people. Thats why the term "snowflake" came about.

Anyway thats my speel. Appreciate your guys thoughts, comments and prayers!

ps. btw if anyone wondering why she is with me still?
1. I make all the money...money is so powerful, its ridiculously sad and pathetic but it is what it is. If she still wants dresses, healthy good food, holidays, just to survive then she needs me. Her earning potential is quite low. (Her mothering and nurturing potential is very high!! Man people need to praise mothers more often...best role in the world for a woman and my wife agress lol yet wheres the practice....)
2. For our daughters sake (she sometimes says in a fit of anger once shes of x age then ill leave).
3. She fears judgement from the christian community?
4. Maybe she still intends well for me and maybe theres a glimmer of hope that she hopes one day things will be better?

Welcome to the real world! Your marriage is just like 99% of other Christian marriages. Things won't get better because the Bible says that in this world we will have tribulation, so what you are describing is the tribulation that the Bible promises you will have.

But the key is that are you working through your difficulties to together, or are you expecting your wife and daughters to "improve" according to your expectations of them. Jesus loves you as you are; He loves your wife as she is; and your daughters as they are. You can't change them. It is not your job to change them in order to improve your marriage and parenthood. It is the Lord's.

The way I formed a close bond with my daughter was to stop trying to deal with her faults, and to concentrate on her strong points. When we talked, I told her the things that impressed me and made me proud of her. Her whole attitude toward me changed because she gained the assurance that I was on her side and that I accepted her as she was. She doesn't always do what I think she should, but she has become very successful in her employment and her relationship with a very supportive partner.

So, start asking the Lord to show you the good and strong points about your family, and start talking about them in your communication with them. When confronted with problems and difficulties, work through them as a family, getting your wife and daughters to share their ideas. You may be the head of your home, but that doesn't mean that you are a controlling dominator who says, "Jump" and they have to say, "How high?"

If you want your daughters to live holy lives pleasing to the Lord, you have to set the example. They will look at you and if they see that you are showing that you love Jesus, and do all you can to live righteously, and that you show your love to them, concentrating on their strengths and showing that you are proud of them and rejoicing that they became part of your family, you will be blessed to see them doing their best to follow that example. So what if they rebel from time to time. Let them. Don't be sucked into their vortex. Maintain your strength in the Lord, be positive in the face of their negativity. Then you will be a rock to them when they go through their periods of uncertainly as they try to deal with the difficulties they face in life.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Have been married for approx 15 years, first (and ONLY! marriage). Absolutely love my wife to bits and would give my life for her within a second. We have a wonderful daughter who is the joy of my life and am thankful for God brining them into my life.

Background
First i would like to say that my wife and I are VERY much aligned ideologically. And though she may not practice much of what she believes in she is very much ideologically in line with me, and me with her. You would think this would help with not having arguments...but it doesnt. We both are staunchly opposed to schooling, feminism, leftism and in general even the State as a whole due to its reliance on coercion (for another forum). We believe in Jesus Christ and long for his return . And for the most part even our theology is heavily aligned. I dont know of any other couple that is more aligned ideologically tbh...
Yet inspite of our strong alignment, we have massive struggles, arguments etc. My wife struggles from abandonment and lack of attachment from quite possible a young age and i think this has had major implications on our marriage. She has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. She is very depressed. VERY.
I come from a strong line of Christians over multiple generations and will NEVER give up on her though this also means im likely more of a "just make the right choice" type personality (Secure christians can be a bit "harsh" like this) and she is the first evangelical in what i think is 4 generations (also the first to make it past 30 without divorce). I do believe the devil is with strong intention trying to take her down (and me with her, though he wont be able to Jesus got me)

I make an ok living (~240k annual). Am reasonably fit, keep myself in ok shape (lean muscle, no fat), lead the fam and help out where i can. I use the term "lead" loosely because is someone a leader if there are no followers? And in this case if my wife doesnt follow, then no matter what leader qualities i have or dont have i am by practical definition not a leader. I'm told (even by my wife) that women like a leader. as an ENTJ this comes naturally to me to take on the commander type leadership role and have always excelled in this area and most of what i put my hand to (though clearly not marriage), rising quickly in any job scene.

I will say that i dont get that intimate with her more recently especially but thats not for lack of desire!! (my wife is also flippin HOT though she doesnt think so ) but the reality is from a lot of what she says, she hates my guts, often verbally calling for my death, even in front of our daughter, saying she would rather be with other men (i think she says this to hurt me not because she actually wants it, she hates adultery and impurity with a passion...ironically...). So i dont get the sense that she intends well for us or really wants me. For me to pursue intimacy in this context seems disrespectful tbh and downright rude.
Though perhaps once a month when the hormones have shifted to the "right zone" she "likes" me ...

Basically with all her hate towards feminism it seems she cant help align with some of the feminist behaviour that culture has surrounded her in. Ideologically we are together. But practically.... we arent....

Discussion Points and Questions
1. Practicality - i do most of the housework. I cook, clean, do washing, vacuum tidy etc. Not 100% of the time but a solid 80%+. In fact after being told over and over it wasnt true i thought i was starting to get deluded so i tracked the data for a good few months (and believe me i would hope to be wrong!!). It ended up being worse than i had thought. The reality is my wife lacks motivation to do any of it. My day starts early, i work (from home most of the time) and then im done and get straight into cooking and cleaning, and interacting with my daughter on her unschooling life. I am very grateful and appreciate that my wife will still drive my daughter to a few specific activities but if she didnt i would do that too. Somedays i feel a little bit like a single dad. And it GRATES me to no end when i hear women talking about how their husband doesnt do much!!.... QUESTION: How am i suppose to get my wife to help out? I think my body will handle this for years to come but i dont know,.. moreover im concerned my daughter will learn from this priviledged type state where the father/husband does jsut about everything and the women sit back and benefit off it. And then you hear women complain about the patriarchy.....

2. Worship - getting my wife to church has been incredibly difficult. Again, not for lack of ideology. but because the sense of community and connection isnt there in her mind. She has what i would call a grass-is-greener mentality, that if we just try the next church around the corner after all there's 100s around! That she would find some connection. its solution by numbers/probability. We have church hopped a few times and ultimately ive put my foot down and locked us in for the moment. This partly for my daughter's sake who likes the stability and is getting to know the church a bit more, enjoys the kids program and is learning (she learns a tonne more at home though tbh...im the home preacher with my ramblings about scripture, philosophy and hermaneutics). QUESTION: Do i keep pushing even though it is showing signs of her just not going? My daughter will stick to her mother (fear that her mother might disapear, i think based on an event in the past when she was very little, where she did just get up jump out of the parked car and took off) so if she stops my daughter will stop. Every church we have attended eventually after 3-6months there is enough fall out (differeing opinion, sense of being judged, whether real or not, that makes my wife want to leave). The issue i see is that she has a leaky bucket, her parents didnt give her the love and attachment she needed and now connecting with others is incredibly difficult. Moving churches i dont think will solve this.

3. Marriage - honestly dont know what to say but ...help? Any ideas? Suggestions? "Have you sat down and discussed abc...." btw is not a solution. This requires two reasonably stable, sane people who can have adult conversation. I can have far more contreversial differing heavily opionated conversation with my daughter and its wonderful and even fun then a slight deviation of opinion with my wife. She says she doesnt mind people having different opinions but i think she reads differing opinions as judgements against her. Part of the issue is my wife and I are both intellectuals by personality traits. She's INTJ and im ENTJ. However due to insecurities from her child hood and i think also as a woman the delivery of information is just as important (if not more) than the actual content. The concept that truth isnt as important as the delivery is a saddening thought and i think a constant issue in todays societies of broken insecure people. Thats why the term "snowflake" came about.

Anyway thats my speel. Appreciate your guys thoughts, comments and prayers!

ps. btw if anyone wondering why she is with me still?
1. I make all the money...money is so powerful, its ridiculously sad and pathetic but it is what it is. If she still wants dresses, healthy good food, holidays, just to survive then she needs me. Her earning potential is quite low. (Her mothering and nurturing potential is very high!! Man people need to praise mothers more often...best role in the world for a woman and my wife agress lol yet wheres the practice....)
2. For our daughters sake (she sometimes says in a fit of anger once shes of x age then ill leave).
3. She fears judgement from the christian community?
4. Maybe she still intends well for me and maybe theres a glimmer of hope that she hopes one day things will be better?

When Windows on my computer starts to run slow because of registry errors, temporary files and junk files and I can't solve the problems, I do a complete reset by reinstalling Windows and starting again.

What came to me when I read your very long and involved post, was that what is needed is a total reset, because you have got yourself in the quicksand of one problem after another, resulting in a huge number of unresolved problem which you are trying in your own strength to sort out. But the more you try, the worse things get.

Firstly, there is nothing you can do to change her. She has to work things out between her and the Lord and you will have to be patient and let that happen even though it may take years. So, get your eyes off her and let her be herself without interference from you.

Secondly, the only person you can change is yourself. Because you are the male and head of your home, you have to set the example for her. You need to love your wife as Christ loves the church. This is not the sentimental lovey dovey stuff that the world sees as love. This is being loving, joyful, peaceable, kind, gentle, patient, good, faithful, and self controlled in the way you run your household, not just toward her, but in general. Even the act of making her a cup of tea when she is depressed can have a dynamic effect. There are times when it is best to leave her be when she wants to be alone.

Just telling her that Jesus loves her is not enough. You have to show the love of Jesus to her, and if that means doing all the housework and laundry when she feels unwell, then that is what you have to do. If she doesn't want intimacy, then you have to accept that and not make any demands on her. When I went through a bout of depression some years ago, all I wanted was to be left alone.

As far as church is concerned, don't have any expectations of her. If she doesn't want to go to church with you, don't force her. My wife doesn't come to church with me although she will involve herself in some of the community activities. Get yourself settled into a supportive church fellowship, and let your wife find her own level of involvement.

The only person I preach to is myself, because I am the only person I can work on to meet my own ideals. If you concentrate on fellowshipping with and serving the Lord according to your calling and gifts and being the strength and resource person for your household displaying the fruit of the Spirit, then that is the best way that you can show your wife the husband that she fell in love with and married.

Instead of trying to work through the problems with her, get alone with the Lord and say everything you have posted in your OP to Him. The Lord is an expert at lifting burdens off people. He hears your prayers and Philippians 4:5,6 says that once you have made your requests to God, He responds by giving you His peace that passes all understanding.

What I am saying is to totally reset, adopting a totally different attitude based on the fruit of the Spirit. When you start to feel overwhelmed, take it all to the Lord, "Casting all your care upon Him, because He cares for you". And, "Be not anxious for anything, but by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving make your requests known to the Lord.'

Then, concentrate on the positive things about your wife. Ask the Lord to show you her strengths. When we deal with someone's weaknesses, they lose confidence in themself; because we all know our own weaknesses. But when you deal with a person on the basis of their strengths, they gain confidence in themself to work through their weaknesses and gain strength. So when talking with your wife, talk about her strengths and the great things about her. But don't make a big thing about it otherwise she will see it just as a strategy rather than an honest expression of love and appreciation for her.

When my daughter went through a depression. I started out being a bit judgmental, and then the Holy Spirit told me to concentrate on her strengths. While she was in rehab, I wrote her a letter telling her all the things that made me proud of her. She put it on the wall beside her bed, and when she felt low, she read it. This was the start of her coming out of her depression.

So, instead of trying to work with her to solve your marital difficulties, leave her alone and work with the Lord instead. He is a God of second chances and miracles.

"It is no secret what God can do,
What He's done for others, He'll do for you.
With arms wide open, He'll welcome you.
It is no secret what God can do."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm not sure if you are still coming to the forum, but I saw your post via a google search about my husband and I don't think it was an accident as I haven't been on the forum in a year. I have BPD (I hate that term), haven't been diagnosed but I had/have all of the symptoms. It's been a rough go with my husband and I, unfortunately my husband shut down for most of our marriage unable to lead me or our family as I took control. We were on the path to destruction, but thanks to moving to a different state away from his family whom we became very enmeshed with and COVID which meant he was working from home we were able to do a reset like the post above mine suggested. If you'd like to hear more, come back on!

There is truth in the Scripture: "A man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and they will become one flesh."

The failure to prioritize one's spouse over family members causes many problems in a marriage and can ultimately lead to the marriage breaking down. I read the stories on Youtube about how many times the interference of a MIL can upset a marriage and cause a spouse to lose confidence in the other spouse. When a husband fails to support and defend his wife, the marriage self destructs, but when the husband stands up to his family and defends his wife, the marriage bond becomes stronger.

Parents sometimes find it difficult to give up their sons or daughters when the latter get married. The "in-laws" insist on maintaining the same authority over their offspring as they had previously. But everything changes when a couple get married. Although parents can have an advisory role, they no longer have the same authority. In other words, they can't "call the shots" any longer.

Churches can do the same to a marriage. They can interfere if they disagree with either the husband or the wife in their theology or religious practice. They can wrongly influence the husband to dominate his wife in the belief that the husband has to exert absolute authority over his wife, treating her as little more than just a slave to him, instead of husband and wife being equal partners in the marriage, albeit with different roles, which can often interplay where necessary. This is what you have done. For a temporary period, you have taken over the leadership role in your marriage in order to save it. There is nothing wrong with that. I have the attitude, "I am the head of my house, whatever my wife says shall be done!" and, "Happy wife, happy life". There is no shame or embarrassment in this and you should not allow a church, no matter how good it is, to interfere with your marriage, except to encourage and support you both.

I made the grievous error to fail to support and defend my first wife when she came under criticism from the church we were attending. Consequently, I failed to provide the strength for her when she needed it the most. As a result she became deeply depressed, and ended up leaving the marriage. She said that she was afraid to return to the city where we were living, alone. It wasn't until years later that I realised how much I had failed her. Now, I won't tolerate any criticism of my second wife, and I made sure that everyone knows it. My priority order is, God first, wife and family next, employment after that, then the inlaws, and then the church last. Notice that I see God has totally separate from the church. For me, church is merely a fellowship centre where believers can encourage and support one another. It does not any type of "God-like" authority over people. It is sad that many conservative and Charismatic churches have failed to get the message.

What I am saying is that your health and your marriage come first, and putting your whole heart in encouraging your husband and bringing him back to strength in order for him to regain his role in the marriage is a good thing, while in the meantime, being a strength for him in his hour of need. Don't remind him of his weaknesses, but let him know his strengths and the things that make you proud of him. It will be remarkable how he will regain strength as a result.

I trust that this is encouraging to you.

 

[InChristAlone525]

There is truth in the Scripture: "A man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and they will become one flesh."

The failure to prioritize one's spouse over family members causes many problems in a marriage and can ultimately lead to the marriage breaking down. I read the stories on Youtube about how many times the interference of a MIL can upset a marriage and cause a spouse to lose confidence in the other spouse. When a husband fails to support and defend his wife, the marriage self destructs, but when the husband stands up to his family and defends his wife, the marriage bond becomes stronger.

Parents sometimes find it difficult to give up their sons or daughters when the latter get married. The "in-laws" insist on maintaining the same authority over their offspring as they had previously. But everything changes when a couple get married. Although parents can have an advisory role, they no longer have the same authority. In other words, they can't "call the shots" any longer.

Churches can do the same to a marriage. They can interfere if they disagree with either the husband or the wife in their theology or religious practice. They can wrongly influence the husband to dominate his wife in the belief that the husband has to exert absolute authority over his wife, treating her as little more than just a slave to him, instead of husband and wife being equal partners in the marriage, albeit with different roles, which can often interplay where necessary. This is what you have done. For a temporary period, you have taken over the leadership role in your marriage in order to save it. There is nothing wrong with that. I have the attitude, "I am the head of my house, whatever my wife says shall be done!" and, "Happy wife, happy life". There is no shame or embarrassment in this and you should not allow a church, no matter how good it is, to interfere with your marriage, except to encourage and support you both.

I made the grievous error to fail to support and defend my first wife when she came under criticism from the church we were attending. Consequently, I failed to provide the strength for her when she needed it the most. As a result she became deeply depressed, and ended up leaving the marriage. She said that she was afraid to return to the city where we were living, alone. It wasn't until years later that I realised how much I had failed her. Now, I won't tolerate any criticism of my second wife, and I made sure that everyone knows it. My priority order is, God first, wife and family next, employment after that, then the inlaws, and then the church last. Notice that I see God has totally separate from the church. For me, church is merely a fellowship centre where believers can encourage and support one another. It does not any type of "God-like" authority over people. It is sad that many conservative and Charismatic churches have failed to get the message.

What I am saying is that your health and your marriage come first, and putting your whole heart in encouraging your husband and bringing him back to strength in order for him to regain his role in the marriage is a good thing, while in the meantime, being a strength for him in his hour of need. Don't remind him of his weaknesses, but let him know his strengths and the things that make you proud of him. It will be remarkable how he will regain strength as a result.

I trust that this is encouraging to you.

Thanks for your encouragement! I definitely blamed myself for taking control as that signifies to my husband that he is somehow incapable, but I would have loved for him to be the leader! He actually has leadership abilities (worked up to a high level manager of a big company), but because he had an enmeshment with his Mom and I began mothering him as well, he was behaving like a child at home. I agree with you spouse and kids come before church, job and parents. I'm sorry to hear your first wife left you, sounds like you learned a lot from it!

I was going to come on this thread and talk about how we were able to save our marriage though!

We are by no means perfect, but we've come a long way. If anyone was curious we used the principles of masculine/feminine polarity from relationship coaches. If you've ever heard of John Gray "Men are from mars women are from venus" it's those principles of polarity. Men need to be masculine and women need to be feminine for the sparks to fly in a marriage. You can have a marriage without it, but you won't have the fire and you'll likely have resentment as one or the other will feel their needs aren't being met. I believe God led us to it because we weren't following Him when I decided to be vulnerable and open up to him and then through this work we were led back to Christ. I still have a ways to go because of trauma to truly be trusting and submissive towards my husband, but God worked in our hearts so much just through me being open to him and not closed off and protecting my heart.

 

[jmz]

When Windows on my computer starts to run slow because of registry errors, temporary files and junk files and I can't solve the problems, I do a complete reset by reinstalling Windows and starting again.

What came to me when I read your very long and involved post, was that what is needed is a total reset, because you have got yourself in the quicksand of one problem after another, resulting in a huge number of unresolved problem which you are trying in your own strength to sort out. But the more you try, the worse things get.

Firstly, there is nothing you can do to change her. She has to work things out between her and the Lord and you will have to be patient and let that happen even though it may take years. So, get your eyes off her and let her be herself without interference from you.

Secondly, the only person you can change is yourself. Because you are the male and head of your home, you have to set the example for her. You need to love your wife as Christ loves the church. This is not the sentimental lovey dovey stuff that the world sees as love. This is being loving, joyful, peaceable, kind, gentle, patient, good, faithful, and self controlled in the way you run your household, not just toward her, but in general. Even the act of making her a cup of tea when she is depressed can have a dynamic effect. There are times when it is best to leave her be when she wants to be alone.

Just telling her that Jesus loves her is not enough. You have to show the love of Jesus to her, and if that means doing all the housework and laundry when she feels unwell, then that is what you have to do. If she doesn't want intimacy, then you have to accept that and not make any demands on her. When I went through a bout of depression some years ago, all I wanted was to be left alone.

As far as church is concerned, don't have any expectations of her. If she doesn't want to go to church with you, don't force her. My wife doesn't come to church with me although she will involve herself in some of the community activities. Get yourself settled into a supportive church fellowship, and let your wife find her own level of involvement.

The only person I preach to is myself, because I am the only person I can work on to meet my own ideals. If you concentrate on fellowshipping with and serving the Lord according to your calling and gifts and being the strength and resource person for your household displaying the fruit of the Spirit, then that is the best way that you can show your wife the husband that she fell in love with and married.

Instead of trying to work through the problems with her, get alone with the Lord and say everything you have posted in your OP to Him. The Lord is an expert at lifting burdens off people. He hears your prayers and Philippians 4:5,6 says that once you have made your requests to God, He responds by giving you His peace that passes all understanding.

What I am saying is to totally reset, adopting a totally different attitude based on the fruit of the Spirit. When you start to feel overwhelmed, take it all to the Lord, "Casting all your care upon Him, because He cares for you". And, "Be not anxious for anything, but by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving make your requests known to the Lord.'

Then, concentrate on the positive things about your wife. Ask the Lord to show you her strengths. When we deal with someone's weaknesses, they lose confidence in themself; because we all know our own weaknesses. But when you deal with a person on the basis of their strengths, they gain confidence in themself to work through their weaknesses and gain strength. So when talking with your wife, talk about her strengths and the great things about her. But don't make a big thing about it otherwise she will see it just as a strategy rather than an honest expression of love and appreciation for her.

When my daughter went through a depression. I started out being a bit judgmental, and then the Holy Spirit told me to concentrate on her strengths. While she was in rehab, I wrote her a letter telling her all the things that made me proud of her. She put it on the wall beside her bed, and when she felt low, she read it. This was the start of her coming out of her depression.

So, instead of trying to work with her to solve your marital difficulties, leave her alone and work with the Lord instead. He is a God of second chances and miracles.

"It is no secret what God can do,
What He's done for others, He'll do for you.
With arms wide open, He'll welcome you.
It is no secret what God can do."

fyi im not trying to work with her for the most part. What you say occured to me many years ago. So for the most part this is what i do. I just hang out with Jesus. its been years o fthe same thing. So my closeness with Jesus keeps growing. And i guess i will do till im dead in the grave. But i long for them to be close with him too.
I'm also wondering if that time may come sooner or not? I hear about people dropping dead from exhaustion. I would absolutely hate to have to come upon my daughter especially . Would break her heart as we are very good friends.

 

[jmz]

When Windows on my computer starts to run slow because of registry errors, temporary files and junk files and I can't solve the problems, I do a complete reset by reinstalling Windows and starting again.

What came to me when I read your very long and involved post, was that what is needed is a total reset, because you have got yourself in the quicksand of one problem after another, resulting in a huge number of unresolved problem which you are trying in your own strength to sort out. But the more you try, the worse things get.

Firstly, there is nothing you can do to change her. She has to work things out between her and the Lord and you will have to be patient and let that happen even though it may take years. So, get your eyes off her and let her be herself without interference from you.

Secondly, the only person you can change is yourself. Because you are the male and head of your home, you have to set the example for her. You need to love your wife as Christ loves the church. This is not the sentimental lovey dovey stuff that the world sees as love. This is being loving, joyful, peaceable, kind, gentle, patient, good, faithful, and self controlled in the way you run your household, not just toward her, but in general. Even the act of making her a cup of tea when she is depressed can have a dynamic effect. There are times when it is best to leave her be when she wants to be alone.

Just telling her that Jesus loves her is not enough. You have to show the love of Jesus to her, and if that means doing all the housework and laundry when she feels unwell, then that is what you have to do. If she doesn't want intimacy, then you have to accept that and not make any demands on her. When I went through a bout of depression some years ago, all I wanted was to be left alone.

As far as church is concerned, don't have any expectations of her. If she doesn't want to go to church with you, don't force her. My wife doesn't come to church with me although she will involve herself in some of the community activities. Get yourself settled into a supportive church fellowship, and let your wife find her own level of involvement.

The only person I preach to is myself, because I am the only person I can work on to meet my own ideals. If you concentrate on fellowshipping with and serving the Lord according to your calling and gifts and being the strength and resource person for your household displaying the fruit of the Spirit, then that is the best way that you can show your wife the husband that she fell in love with and married.

Instead of trying to work through the problems with her, get alone with the Lord and say everything you have posted in your OP to Him. The Lord is an expert at lifting burdens off people. He hears your prayers and Philippians 4:5,6 says that once you have made your requests to God, He responds by giving you His peace that passes all understanding.

What I am saying is to totally reset, adopting a totally different attitude based on the fruit of the Spirit. When you start to feel overwhelmed, take it all to the Lord, "Casting all your care upon Him, because He cares for you". And, "Be not anxious for anything, but by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving make your requests known to the Lord.'

Then, concentrate on the positive things about your wife. Ask the Lord to show you her strengths. When we deal with someone's weaknesses, they lose confidence in themself; because we all know our own weaknesses. But when you deal with a person on the basis of their strengths, they gain confidence in themself to work through their weaknesses and gain strength. So when talking with your wife, talk about her strengths and the great things about her. But don't make a big thing about it otherwise she will see it just as a strategy rather than an honest expression of love and appreciation for her.

When my daughter went through a depression. I started out being a bit judgmental, and then the Holy Spirit told me to concentrate on her strengths. While she was in rehab, I wrote her a letter telling her all the things that made me proud of her. She put it on the wall beside her bed, and when she felt low, she read it. This was the start of her coming out of her depression.

So, instead of trying to work with her to solve your marital difficulties, leave her alone and work with the Lord instead. He is a God of second chances and miracles.

"It is no secret what God can do,
What He's done for others, He'll do for you.
With arms wide open, He'll welcome you.
It is no secret what God can do."

I'm interested to know if you believe in boundaries. I come from a very serving culture in the Islands so we will work out hearts out to serve others, but others understand this and do likewise. Its a very grateful society. Which is what ive been doing over these past 15 years. Seriously at one point she didnt want to walk to spit out the toothpast from her bed, where she was brushing her teeth, so i would bring a bowl to her to spit in and then take it back to wash it out. And did this night after night.

In my mind...that is not right. I thought i was being kind and loving but really i was encouraging entitlement. So its a tricky one because underlying it is real hurt and depression. Yet you cant just give give give, because it trains them to expect the slaves to contoinue working for them.

What about if she talks about wanting to be with other men? Or to be embraced by another man?

Its a careful balance between leading, serving, boundaries, and also looking after ones own health. It aint easy. Loving people, not being judgemental on depressed people is easy. Trust me i used to pastor youth!! . But when they continue to use and abuse u its a difficult balance.

I remember writiing my wife little cards with stuff telling her all the things i think good about her. I think she threw them out.

 

[jmz]

Thanks for your encouragement! I definitely blamed myself for taking control as that signifies to my husband that he is somehow incapable, but I would have loved for him to be the leader! He actually has leadership abilities (worked up to a high level manager of a big company), but because he had an enmeshment with his Mom and I began mothering him as well, he was behaving like a child at home. I agree with you spouse and kids come before church, job and parents. I'm sorry to hear your first wife left you, sounds like you learned a lot from it!

I was going to come on this thread and talk about how we were able to save our marriage though!

We are by no means perfect, but we've come a long way. If anyone was curious we used the principles of masculine/feminine polarity from relationship coaches. If you've ever heard of John Gray "Men are from mars women are from venus" it's those principles of polarity. Men need to be masculine and women need to be feminine for the sparks to fly in a marriage. You can have a marriage without it, but you won't have the fire and you'll likely have resentment as one or the other will feel their needs aren't being met. I believe God led us to it because we weren't following Him when I decided to be vulnerable and open up to him and then through this work we were led back to Christ. I still have a ways to go because of trauma to truly be trusting and submissive towards my husband, but God worked in our hearts so much just through me being open to him and not closed off and protecting my heart.

Love this! All the complemntarian stuff is awesome. Masculine/Feminine. Mark Gungor, John Eldrige, Eggerichs, Suzanne Venker even.

At the moment there are two alpha "men" in our family haha. I would love for my wife to be open to me.

Anyway i believe it will come. Jesus is on the case.

 

[jmz]

There is truth in the Scripture: "A man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and they will become one flesh."

The failure to prioritize one's spouse over family members causes many problems in a marriage and can ultimately lead to the marriage breaking down. I read the stories on Youtube about how many times the interference of a MIL can upset a marriage and cause a spouse to lose confidence in the other spouse. When a husband fails to support and defend his wife, the marriage self destructs, but when the husband stands up to his family and defends his wife, the marriage bond becomes stronger.

Parents sometimes find it difficult to give up their sons or daughters when the latter get married. The "in-laws" insist on maintaining the same authority over their offspring as they had previously. But everything changes when a couple get married. Although parents can have an advisory role, they no longer have the same authority. In other words, they can't "call the shots" any longer.

Churches can do the same to a marriage. They can interfere if they disagree with either the husband or the wife in their theology or religious practice. They can wrongly influence the husband to dominate his wife in the belief that the husband has to exert absolute authority over his wife, treating her as little more than just a slave to him, instead of husband and wife being equal partners in the marriage, albeit with different roles, which can often interplay where necessary. This is what you have done. For a temporary period, you have taken over the leadership role in your marriage in order to save it. There is nothing wrong with that. I have the attitude, "I am the head of my house, whatever my wife says shall be done!" and, "Happy wife, happy life". There is no shame or embarrassment in this and you should not allow a church, no matter how good it is, to interfere with your marriage, except to encourage and support you both.

I made the grievous error to fail to support and defend my first wife when she came under criticism from the church we were attending. Consequently, I failed to provide the strength for her when she needed it the most. As a result she became deeply depressed, and ended up leaving the marriage. She said that she was afraid to return to the city where we were living, alone. It wasn't until years later that I realised how much I had failed her. Now, I won't tolerate any criticism of my second wife, and I made sure that everyone knows it. My priority order is, God first, wife and family next, employment after that, then the inlaws, and then the church last. Notice that I see God has totally separate from the church. For me, church is merely a fellowship centre where believers can encourage and support one another. It does not any type of "God-like" authority over people. It is sad that many conservative and Charismatic churches have failed to get the message.

What I am saying is that your health and your marriage come first, and putting your whole heart in encouraging your husband and bringing him back to strength in order for him to regain his role in the marriage is a good thing, while in the meantime, being a strength for him in his hour of need. Don't remind him of his weaknesses, but let him know his strengths and the things that make you proud of him. It will be remarkable how he will regain strength as a result.

I trust that this is encouraging to you.

Where did Janelle525 go? I would be interested to hear her side more. Sounds very similar except in our marriage, i havent shut down (yet) and REFUSE to shut down (all glory to God!). The harder it gets the more keen i am on the fight! With the Spirit in me i will fight for my family and marraige!

 

[Endeavourer]

@jmz

Would your wife be willing to start a thread with her perspective? I'm seeing some red flags in your side, and I know you came here sincerely hoping to resolve those. Can we hear from your wife?

You would think this would help with not having arguments...but it doesnt.

Yet inspite of our strong alignment, we have massive struggles, arguments etc.

Arguments are the death knell of marriages. Don't argue. Instead brainstorm together for solutions. Take both "your way" and "her way" of the table and find another way that you are both mutually enthusiastic about.

The lovebusters caused by arguments delete about 1,000 lovebank deposits. Don't do that. It is possible to never argue in marriages. I have such a marriage. We brainstorm until we find something we both are enthusiastic about. Since we both have every expectation of resolving things to both of our enthusiasm, we don't feel the need to push for our way against the other spouse's wishes. Arguing is like eating dirt - why not enjoy wine and cheese in beautiful harmony instead?

There are usually 100's or 1,000's of options. Find an outcome you both are enthusiastic about.

My wife struggles from abandonment and lack of attachment from quite possible a young age and i think this has had major implications on our marriage.

Unless a professional has diagnosed her as such, this is a massively disrespectful viewpoint of your wife.

lead the fam

What does this look like? Examples?

And in this case if my wife doesnt follow, then no matter what leader qualities i have or dont have i am by practical definition not a leader. I'm told (even by my wife) that women like a leader.

Does she say why she doesn't follow? Is she enthusiastic about your decisions?

I will say that i dont get that intimate with her more recently especially but thats not for lack of desire!! (my wife is also flippin HOT though she doesnt think so ) but the reality is from a lot of what she says, she hates my guts, often verbally calling for my death, even in front of our daughter, saying she would rather be with other men (i think she says this to hurt me not because she actually wants it, she hates adultery and impurity with a passion...ironically...).

What usually happens before she says things like this?

Basically with all her hate towards feminism it seems she cant help align with some of the feminist behaviour that culture has surrounded her in. Ideologically we are together. But practically.... we arent....

This is disrespectful towards your wife. Apparently there are actions or behaviors you want that she's not enthusiastic about. Stop blaming it on "feminist behavior". What are these actions or behaviors?

QUESTION: How am i suppose to get my wife to help out? I think my body will handle this for years to come but i dont know,.. moreover im concerned my daughter will learn from this priviledged type state where the father/husband does jsut about everything and the women sit back and benefit off it.

This is disrespectful to your wife. Instead, you need to discuss what areas of the day to day she is enthusiastic about her doing, and what she is enthusiastic about you doing. If she's enthusiastic about doing it, she will be less likely to break the agreement. If she is not enthusiastic about doing what you want her to do, she will eventually stop doing it. Don't try to arm twist her into doing things or coerce her - the only solutions that have a chance of being long term are actions she is enthusiastic about doing. As well, you should only do what you are enthusiastic about doing. Figure out how the remainder will be done to both of your enthusiastic satisfaction.

Is there a word you are hearing a lot in my responses?

And then you hear women complain about the patriarchy.....

This is very disrespectful to your wife.

2. Worship - getting my wife to church has been incredibly difficult. Again, not for lack of ideology. but because the sense of community and connection isnt there in her mind. She has what i would call a grass-is-greener mentality, that if we just try the next church around the corner after all there's 100s around! That she would find some connection. its solution by numbers/probability.

This is disrespectful to your wife. "Getting her" to do something she doesn't want to do is causing her to sacrifice in a way that withdraws love bank units for you. Further, forced sacrifice (coercing her giver) has a way of causing a rebound of her taker which will cause damage to the relationship without gaining you anything.

You need to brainstorm together to find a way of worship she is enthusiastic about. Brainstorm with both of your takers, and do not let yourself take from her giver. You want to encounter each other's takers in this productive, even fun, environment and not after the giver has had enough and the taker ruthlessly demands the stage.

It is possible to keep both of your takers mutually happy. By this I of course do not mean using your takers in a rude way, but in a loving way..... "I'm not quite enthusiastic about that. What would you think about ___?"

We have church hopped a few times and ultimately ive put my foot down and locked us in for the moment.

Putting your foot down and forcing or coercing your spouse is not appropriate in a marriage. Doing so will have a rebound effect much larger than the initial problem. See comment above.

This partly for my daughter's sake who likes the stability and is getting to know the church a bit more, enjoys the kids program and is learning

Does your wife see it this way? Is she enthusiastic about your daughter participating in the church you are taking her to?

QUESTION: Do i keep pushing even though it is showing signs of her just not going?

Of course not. You find something that you are mutually enthusiastic about. Brainstorm without judgment, and with abandon. Give her desires and needs 100% weight, and give yours 100% weight. Don't try coercing the other into your way or her way..... brainstorm with those other 99 churches or home churching, or whatever, for "OUR WAY".

My daughter will stick to her mother (fear that her mother might disapear, i think based on an event in the past when she was very little, where she did just get up jump out of the parked car and took off) so if she stops my daughter will stop.

You are overthinking. Just focus on brainstorming a mutually enthusiastic worship pattern.

Every church we have attended eventually after 3-6months there is enough fall out (differeing opinion, sense of being judged, whether real or not, that makes my wife want to leave).

OK. Then keep brainstorming for solutions together until there is mutual enthusiasm.

The issue i see is that she has a leaky bucket, her parents didnt give her the love and attachment she needed and now connecting with others is incredibly difficult. Moving churches i dont think will solve this.

Diagnosing your wife is disrespectful to her. Stop. You do not know her thoughts.

3. Marriage - honestly dont know what to say but ...help? Any ideas? Suggestions? "Have you sat down and discussed abc...." btw is not a solution. This requires two reasonably stable, sane people who can have adult conversation.

Implying your wife is not reasonably sane (diagnosing) or an adult is disrespectful. If I can hear the disrespect, trust me, your wife can too.

but i think she reads differing opinions as judgements against her.

There is a way to disagree with someone such that they take it personally. Given your writings here, it's possible you have such a talent.

. However due to insecurities from her child hood and i think also as a woman the delivery of information is just as important (if not more) than the actual content. The concept that truth isnt as important as the delivery is a saddening thought and i think a constant issue in todays societies of broken insecure people. Thats why the term "snowflake" came about.

Very disrespectful.

2. For our daughters sake (she sometimes says in a fit of anger once shes of x age then ill leave).

What happens before she says things like this?


Finally, how often do you have anger outbursts or pull the leader card?

A happy, romantically in-love marriage is a beautiful thing. Sometimes it doesn't take a huge adjustment on one part or another to achieve this, even if there has been a messy past with poor behaviors. I would really love for you both to enjoy such a relationship.

In Christ,
E.

 

[Endeavourer]

@jmz

I'll just say one more thing: Unhappy marriages are a top cause of depression in women. Once the marriage becomes happy, the depression will often go away.

I prayerfully hope that the hard work I've suggested you engage above could help ameliorate your wife's depression once you two find harmony in your stride.

In Christ,
E.

 

[Endeavourer]

Love this! All the complemntarian stuff is awesome. Masculine/Feminine. Mark Gungor, John Eldrige, Eggerichs, Suzanne Venker even.

At the moment there are two alpha "men" in our family haha. I would love for my wife to be open to me.

Anyway i believe it will come. Jesus is on the case.

I have been an older sister in the faith lay mentor to women whose marriages have been extremely damaged by Eggerichs. In fact, I have never mentored a woman yet who found improvement in her marriage after a mutual reading of Love & Respect. He teaches that women have no sexual needs. Yep, that's what I said. Read his chapter about sex - not one mention about the woman's needs. It's all about a need HE has that she doesn't have, and that she has to sacrifice to fulfill his need. Earth to believers: women DO have sexual needs. We were created to enjoy intimacy and sexual fulfillment in our marriage. Women providing sacrificial/duty sex leads to sexual aversion. My husband has threatened that if he ever determines that I provided duty sex he would feel so bad that he probably would not want marital sex again. Yep, it's that selfish. Also, there is a large community of recovering women online who have been substantially harmed in their marriages by L&R.

Mark Gungor is a comedian/pastor which, in the sum of his discourse, tallies up more often at the wife's expense than the husband.

I would recommend broadening your resources to a more fully orbed study of marital behaviors. Also, something I learned the hard way: Just because a resource claims to be so "biblical" and just because to your filters it seems like it might be does not mean that it is actually biblical. L&R is the LEAST biblical marital resource I've encountered, and uses an extraneous private interpretation/ revelation as its premise. (2 Peter 1:20).

 

[jmz]

@jmz

Would your wife be willing to start a thread with her perspective? I'm seeing some red flags in your side, and I know you came here sincerely hoping to resolve those. Can we hear from your wife?

Would love her to. She knows im asking on here. She wont.

Arguments are the death knell of marriages. Don't argue. Instead brainstorm together for solutions. Take both "your way" and "her way" of the table and find another way that you are both mutually enthusiastic about.

100% agree. I dont think you quite understand BPD (diagnosed BPD by one of the worlds leading BPD experts btw...)

The lovebusters caused by arguments delete about 1,000 lovebank deposits. Don't do that. It is possible to never argue in marriages. I have such a marriage. We brainstorm until we find something we both are enthusiastic about. Since we both have every expectation of resolving things to both of our enthusiasm, we don't feel the need to push for our way against the other spouse's wishes. Arguing is like eating dirt - why not enjoy wine and cheese in beautiful harmony instead?

I seriously doubt your wife suffers from the same upbrining mine does. In every sphere of my life i do just this. Brainstorming, pulling info from all the stakeholders. 100% agree arguing sucks. Im not a fan.

There are usually 100's or 1,000's of options. Find an outcome you both are enthusiastic about.

These numbers are made up. Also 1000 is 10x bigger than 100 best you land on something solid.

Unless a professional has diagnosed her as such, this is a massively disrespectful viewpoint of your wife.

But a profressional has diagnosed this...

What does this look like? Examples?


Does she say why she doesn't follow? Is she enthusiastic about your decisions?


What usually happens before she says things like this?


This is disrespectful towards your wife. Apparently there are actions or behaviors you want that she's not enthusiastic about. Stop blaming it on "feminist behavior". What are these actions or behaviors?


This is disrespectful to your wife. Instead, you need to discuss what areas of the day to day she is enthusiastic about her doing, and what she is enthusiastic about you doing. If she's enthusiastic about doing it, she will be less likely to break the agreement. If she is not enthusiastic about doing what you want her to do, she will eventually stop doing it. Don't try to arm twist her into doing things or coerce her - the only solutions that have a chance of being long term are actions she is enthusiastic about doing. As well, you should only do what you are enthusiastic about doing. Figure out how the remainder will be done to both of your enthusiastic satisfaction.

Is there a word you are hearing a lot in my responses?


This is very disrespectful to your wife.


This is disrespectful to your wife. "Getting her" to do something she doesn't want to do is causing her to sacrifice in a way that withdraws love bank units for you. Further, forced sacrifice (coercing her giver) has a way of causing a rebound of her taker which will cause damage to the relationship without gaining you anything.

You need to brainstorm together to find a way of worship she is enthusiastic about. Brainstorm with both of your takers, and do not let yourself take from her giver. You want to encounter each other's takers in this productive, even fun, environment and not after the giver has had enough and the taker ruthlessly demands the stage.

It is possible to keep both of your takers mutually happy. By this I of course do not mean using your takers in a rude way, but in a loving way..... "I'm not quite enthusiastic about that. What would you think about ___?"


Putting your foot down and forcing or coercing your spouse is not appropriate in a marriage. Doing so will have a rebound effect much larger than the initial problem. See comment above.


Does your wife see it this way? Is she enthusiastic about your daughter participating in the church you are taking her to?


Of course not. You find something that you are mutually enthusiastic about. Brainstorm without judgment, and with abandon. Give her desires and needs 100% weight, and give yours 100% weight. Don't try coercing the other into your way or her way..... brainstorm with those other 99 churches or home churching, or whatever, for "OUR WAY".

Have been doing this for a good 10 years ^. You are ignoring the leaky bucket of BPD.

You are overthinking. Just focus on brainstorming a mutually enthusiastic worship pattern.


OK. Then keep brainstorming for solutions together until there is mutual enthusiasm.


Diagnosing your wife is disrespectful to her. Stop. You do not know her thoughts.

100% i ony go off what she says...

Implying your wife is not reasonably sane (diagnosing) or an adult is disrespectful. If I can hear the disrespect, trust me, your wife can too.

These are her words as well...but thank you for your incorrect assumptions.

There is a way to disagree with someone such that they take it personally. Given your writings here, it's possible you have such a talent.

And there is a way to hear a disagreement in such a way that they take it personally...i would suggest you have demonstrated that

Very disrespectful.


What happens before she says things like this?


Finally, how often do you have anger outbursts or pull the leader card?

Anger outbursts not so much. Leader card primarily when it comes to her wanting to spend 1000s of dollars on things or other economically related things that later are blamed on me that i didnt stand my ground when she wanted to compusively spend.

A happy, romantically in-love marriage is a beautiful thing. Sometimes it doesn't take a huge adjustment on one part or another to achieve this, even if there has been a messy past with poor behaviors. I would really love for you both to enjoy such a relationship.

In Christ,
E.

TBH most of your post is rather disrespectul or more i should say HIGHLY assumptive. But its understandable. Most people have a one sided view of things.
The part you are ignoring is BPD and major issues, profressional diagnosed by one of the world's leading experts and therapist on BPD...
I would suggst you practice th socratic method in your approach to discussion. You are pulling from your VERY different scenario (and possibly culturally different as well) and trying to apply it to a stranger.

 

[jmz]

I have been an older sister in the faith lay mentor to women whose marriages have been extremely damaged by Eggerichs. In fact, I have never mentored a woman yet who found improvement in her marriage after a mutual reading of Love & Respect. He teaches that women have no sexual needs. Yep, that's what I said. Read his chapter about sex - not one mention about the woman's needs. It's all about a need HE has that she doesn't have, and that she has to sacrifice to fulfill his need. Earth to believers: women DO have sexual needs. We were created to enjoy intimacy and sexual fulfillment in our marriage. Women providing sacrificial/duty sex leads to sexual aversion. My husband has threatened that if he ever determines that I provided duty sex he would feel so bad that he probably would not want marital sex again. Yep, it's that selfish. Also, there is a large community of recovering women online who have been substantially harmed in their marriages by L&R.

Mark Gungor is a comedian/pastor which, in the sum of his discourse, tallies up more often at the wife's expense than the husband.

I would recommend broadening your resources to a more fully orbed study of marital behaviors. Also, something I learned the hard way: Just because a resource claims to be so "biblical" and just because to your filters it seems like it might be does not mean that it is actually biblical. L&R is the LEAST biblical marital resource I've encountered, and uses an extraneous private interpretation/ revelation as its premise. (2 Peter 1:20).

Anything to say on Eldrige or just those two?

I primarily got round to reading these books because my wife is in to them. The irony when we think about your original post... We both found them very good and are both in agreement about it..... Perhaps try and be a little less assumptive please your massive bias is showing.

Your one testimony doesnt add up to the thousands of testimonies about how these books have helped.