Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Vanellus]

And you will find 10X that number very happy that it was used......especially the men who were going to have to invade Japan. Think you could stomach 1,000,000+ American casualties (estimated by the Pentagon) and many times that Japanese (mostly civilian) casualties. That would have been a catastrophe that all others would be measured by.

You wrote "no one complained about the methods used to end it.." You were wrong.

 

[Vanellus]

The Gazans made their own bed; now they get to sleep in it. Too bad their children have to suffer for their parents stupidity. This might be a case where the sins of the fathers ARE visited upon the sons.
Only Gazan lives matter then - do you agree? (see, I can do that too)

You didn't answer my question. However I state that Gazan, West Bank Palestinian, Israeli whether Jewish or not (and in fact all lives) matter. Why can't you state that Palestinian lives in Gaza matter?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hamas has not yet rendered the hospital inoperable. The Israelis need to stop Hamas from killing patients and allow the doctors to continue their work.

The patients were doing just fine before Israeli intervention blockaded Gaza (further) and the IDF declared that the hospitals were a chain of Comet Ping Pongs of terrorism.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Medical director of Indonesian Hospital in Gaza reports strike on facility​

The Washington Post could not independently verify the account, and the Israel Defense Forces did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Netanyahu adviser says Israel's firing at Indonesia Hospital "in complete compliance with international law”​

Ophir Falk, foreign policy adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said on Monday that Israel’s firing into the Indonesian Hospital in northern Gaza was proportional and “in complete compliance with international law.”

World Health Organization "appalled" by attack on Indonesia Hospital in Gaza, director-general says​

The head of the World Health Organization has condemned the attack on the Indonesian Hospital in Gaza which killed 12 people, including patients.

 

[Valletta]

You didn't answer my question. However I state that Gazan, West Bank Palestinian, Israeli whether Jewish or not (and in fact all lives) matter. Why can't you state that Palestinian lives in Gaza matter?

All lives matter. If a patient pulls a machine gun and tries to kill other patients or Israelis, tragically, the life of the patient must be taken in order to protect innocent lives.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Palestinian poet arrested by Israeli forces in Gaza, his brother says​

A Palestinian writer and poet who had been contributing to The New Yorker and other publications with reflections on his life inside Gaza during the war has been detained by the Israeli military, according to his brother.

Mosab Abu Toha was taken into custody by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) “when he reached the checkpoint while leaving from the north to the south” of Gaza, his brother Hamza Abu Toha said in a Facebook post Monday.

Mosab Abu Toha, lauded poet published by the New Yorker, arrested in Gaza​

A finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award this year, the writer was attempting to evacuate to southern Gaza, colleagues say​

PEN America, the literary and human rights advocacy organization, wrote in a statement that it is “concerned by reports that poet Mosab Abu Toha, the founder of Gaza’s only English language library, has been taken into custody by Israel’s Defense Forces in Gaza. We are seeking more details and call for his protection.”

Abu Toha, who is in his early 30s, has published in a number of journals, including Poetry magazine, Arrowsmith and the Nation, which on Thursday published his latest poem, “Gazan Family Letters, 2092.” He also wrote an essay for the New York Times last month. After a fellowship as a visiting poet at Harvard, he completed a graduate degree earlier this year at Syracuse University, where he was also a teaching assistant.

This year, he was named a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle’s poetry award, for his 2022 collection, “Things You May Find Hidden in My Ear: Poems from Gaza.”

Buttu said that Abu Toha had been in touch with the U.S. government in recent weeks to gain approval to evacuate his family from Gaza. The youngest of his three children, 3-year-old Mostafa, was born in the United States and is a U.S. citizen.

 

[Valletta]

The patients were doing just fine before Israeli intervention blockaded Gaza (further) and the IDF declared that the hospitals were a chain of Comet Ping Pongs of terrorism.

You said the patients were doing just fine. I didn't know you were a doctor. Does that, in your professional opinion, mean none were in critical condition?

 

[Valletta]

Palestinian poet arrested by Israeli forces in Gaza, his brother says​

A Palestinian writer and poet who had been contributing to The New Yorker and other publications with reflections on his life inside Gaza during the war has been detained by the Israeli military, according to his brother.

Mosab Abu Toha was taken into custody by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) “when he reached the checkpoint while leaving from the north to the south” of Gaza, his brother Hamza Abu Toha said in a Facebook post Monday.

Excellent. Rather than harm adults who could be Hamas terrorists, take the individuals into custody, check their IDs, ask them some questions, and send them on their way.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You said the patients were doing just fine.

They were not being 'killed by Hamas', and thus there was no need for Israel to stop Hamas from killing them.

The patients were being treated by doctors under the auspices of the Gaza Health Ministry, which is a part of Hamas' administration of Gaza.

 

[Valletta]

They were not being 'killed by Hamas', and thus there was no need for Israel to stop Hamas from killing them.

The patients were being treated by doctors under the auspices of the Gaza Health Ministry, which is a part of Hamas' administration of Gaza.

How do you know they were not killed by Hamas?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Actually I wrote post #738 - you seem to be very confused now.

In post #639 you wrote:
"BTW, I don't believe God has anointed Netanyahu a prophet to Israel.....not yet at least......." but that is neither yes or no.

Actually, my answer is in #738......please pay attention.....but maybe my expectations are getting too high......

 

[civilwarbuff]

You wrote "no one complained about the methods used to end it.." You were wrong.

And everyone who did so did it after the fact.....because they weren't read into that program. Do your homework and skip the cliff notes......

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why can't you state that Palestinian lives in Gaza matter?

I made my statement; you just can't accept the answer.

 

[rjs330]

You are denying the possibility of the figures being inflated by Hamas's influence ?

Lying, while common in most cultures, is much more acceptable outside of the domain of cultures which have a Judeo-Christian foundation.

Yes and particularly among the Muslim culture. Especially when dealt with infidels. Lying is fully acceptable because we are not worthy of the truth.

 

[rjs330]

A Jewish man who worked on the Gaza border gives evidence attacks were allowed.

Look, I'm not buying it. There were plenty of Americans who believed 911 was allowed to happen. Or that the government was even in on it. I know there were people who also believe that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen too. Just because you are Jewish doesn't mean you can't have conspiracy theorists. They are people too.

 

[rjs330]

IDF commanders ignored lookouts' warnings over Hamas massacre - report​

The lookouts warned that they had seen unusual actions taking place next to the border in the months leading up to October 7.​

The lookouts felt that they weren't being heard; one of them decided to go directly to a senior commander in the area and was told "I don't want to hear again about this nonsense. If you all bother us again with these things, you'll be court-martialed."

It's interesting to me that all governments seem to be the same. They have a tendency to ignore things until something terrible happens. Warnings go unheeded. Arrogance isn't limited to the US.

Do I believe they didn't listen because they WANTANTED it to happen? No, just like I did no t believe the US wanted 911 to happen or Pearl Harbor to happen.

I think higher ups in many government organizations and always think they know best and won't listen to those subordinate to them. Cause they are arrogant.

 

[rjs330]

You haven't explained how footage apparently showing Hamas taking two hostages into the al Shifa hospital leads to the conclusion that Hamas dictates to the Gaza Ministry of Health

I thought everyone was saying that the people have to do whatever Hamas says. Is the Ministry of Health part of the Gazan government that is run by Hamas?

When we talk about the Palestinians standing against Hamas we get from you and others, well people can't cause Hamas will kill them etc.

But Hamas will allow the Health Ministry to do and say whatever they want even if they go against what Hamas wants?

But just the fact that the health ministry is government and the government is a
Run by Hamas should be enough.

 

[rjs330]

Netanyahu adviser says Israel's firing at Indonesia Hospital "in complete compliance with international law”​

Ophir Falk, foreign policy adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said on Monday that Israel’s firing into the Indonesian Hospital in northern Gaza was proportional and “in complete compliance with international law.”

World Health Organization "appalled" by attack on Indonesia Hospital in Gaza, director-general says​

The head of the World Health Organization has condemned the attack on the Indonesian Hospital in Gaza which killed 12 people, including patients.

The WHO would be appalled at Israel no matter what they did. Hamas could be launching nuclear rockets from the hospital and the WHO would be appalled if Israel shot back.

 

[rjs330]

You didn't answer my question. However I state that Gazan, West Bank Palestinian, Israeli whether Jewish or not (and in fact all lives) matter. Why can't you state that Palestinian lives in Gaza matter?

It's the wrong question. The question shouldn't be do Gazans lives matter? The question should be is it just for Israel to take Gazan lives the prosecution of war against Hamas. All lives matter of course. Every life from every side matters. Even the enemies life you take matters.

The question is in a war of this type is, is it just to take lives in the cause of the war. And part of that is to ask the question why. Are we taking lives just to take lives? Is there no reason or no purpose in it?

If Hamas is attacking you from a building full of civilians I including women and children, is it just to attack back when civilians are present or should you just back off?

Or if the enemy is using a hospital to attack and or plan attacks is it just to attack the hospital?

We see in this thread that there are many that say no, that is not just. Others say in the prosecution of war it is.

Even international law recognizes these factors. As long as you are following international law in these matters then the amount of civilian casualties doesn't matter.

But it still doesn't negate the fact that all lives are important. That's why war should not be taken lightly and a critical reason why you should not attack another country, because the retribution could be severe and overwhelming even though it might be just.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The Bible teaches that each person is responsible for their own actions

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad
2 Cor 5:10

The question then becomes is Israel justified in defending itself against Hamas. I think that they would be condemned if they did not.