Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Valletta]

I said what I said quite clearly. I'll say it again. If we assume the figures are correct, could you have agreed that it was a price that should be paid.

Now nobody knows exactly how many children have been killed. We may never have an exact number. But having read what other independent authorities have said about the Ministry of Health, my opinion is that their numbers are not going to be wildly off. So IF the numbers are correct, or even roughly correct, then would you have said right from the start 'Yes, that's a price that's worth paying.'

It's a simple question.

You can see for yourself how accurate the Palestinians are and how much they propagandize. The jihadists think any amount of dead are worth the price of success. The jihadists are willing to pay the price. For Israel, the idea is to minimize innocent deaths. To do nothing will cost more innocent lives, and Israel is not willing to pay that price. From their perspective the choice is a no-brainer. You can see what appeasement did when Joe paid billions to get some American hostages returned--Iranian backed Hamas kidnapped more Americans, and Israelis.

 

[Bradskii]

You are denying the possibility of the figures being inflated by Hamas's influence ?

Are you not reading what I am writing? I have given a number of reasons why their figures are generally accepted as being accurate. If you have reason to doubt what was given, then make a case. Otherwise, let me know what figures you think are acceptable.

Lying, while common in most cultures, is much more acceptable outside of the domain of cultures which have a Judeo-Christian foundation.

I'll try my best to ignore that.

 

[Bradskii]

You can see for yourself how accurate the Palestinians are and how much they propagandize. The jihadists think any amount of dead are worth the price of success. The jihadists are willing to pay the price. For Israel, the idea is to minimize innocent deaths.

And you have to explain how many you think is acceptable. 4,000 children dead so far. If you think that figure is not correct then propose another one that you do find acceptable.

 

[Pommer]

@Bradskii

And video evidence shows that Hamas and purposely exposing children to danger ?

Hamas is bad for using children as “shields”, we agree.
But if Israel kills a child to get to the person behind the tyke, how is that justifiable?

 

[essentialsaltes]

The World Health Organization said Sunday that it had evacuated 31 premature infants from Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital, bringing the newborns to a facility near the Egyptian border and signaling a broader effort to save the most vulnerable amid an Israeli siege of the sprawling medical complex.

Officials in Israel, in making the case to storm al-Shifa, have described the hospital as the “beating heart” of the Hamas militant group’s operations, a claim for which they have yet to provide significant evidence. By the time a U.N. assessment team reached the hospital Saturday, the WHO said in a statement, the once-bustling facility resembled a “death zone.”

A power outage at al-Shifa forced medics to remove 39 babies from their incubators. To keep the infants warm, staff placed them close together and wrapped them in aluminum foil and medical scrubs.

Thirty-one infants survived the wait for evacuation, two of them dying the night before a U.N. team reached them, the WHO said.

Doctors Without Borders said Sunday that a staff member’s relative was killed and another wounded after Israeli forces fired “deliberately” on a convoy carrying 140 of the organization’s employees and their family members the day before. The convoy was clearly marked, said the organization also known by its French acronym MSF, and both warring parties were notified of its passage.

 

[Pommer]

You can see for yourself how accurate the Palestinians are and how much they propagandize. The jihadists think any amount of dead are worth the price of success. The jihadists are willing to pay the price.

Other people’s faith makes them do bad things?

 

[Pommer]

You are denying the possibility of the figures being inflated by Hamas's influence ?

Lying, while common in most cultures, is much more acceptable outside of the domain of cultures which have a Judeo-Christian foundation.

What is your best guess (based on whatever “research” you’ve done) on both the numbers of people killed and the number of of those killed who were children?

 

[public hermit]

It’s not like they have oodles of land for a military complex, things are tight in the Gaza Strip, a piece of land about a quarter of the size of the City of Los Angeles.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It's a slaughter, disproportionate. I get that Hamas needs to be dealt with, but there has to be a better way

 

[Carl Emerson]

What is your best guess (based on whatever “research” you’ve done) on both the numbers of people killed and the number of of those killed who were children?

No one knows... Best wait and see when more reliable information is available.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Are you not reading what I am writing? I have given a number of reasons why their figures are generally accepted as being accurate. If you have reason to doubt what was given, then make a case. Otherwise, let me know what figures you think are acceptable.

I'll try my best to ignore that.

Why ? My major at Uni was Phenomenology of Religion and covered the relationship between religion and corruption.

 

[Bradskii]

No one knows... Best wait and see when more reliable information is available.

I guess you'd have some sort of upper limit. I mean, it might be a good idea to call for a reduction in the fighting or a complete cease fire before that limit is reached. It's a little late to say 'Oh, we passed what I consider to be acceptable some time ago.'

So what are you going to do when that 'more reliable information is available'? Make a decision then? Or just say 'Keep going, I'll let you know when we've reached a point where you should stop.'

And be sure to let us know which organisation you'll be relying on to give that 'reliable information.' Not who you won't, but who you will.

 

[Bradskii]

Why ? My major at Uni was Phenomenology of Religion and covered the relationship between religion and corruption.

Then, allowing for a minor detour, you can link to something that shows that Christians lie less than anyone from any other religion. Actually let's make that religion Islam, shall we?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I guess you'd have some sort of upper limit. I mean, it might be a good idea to call for a reduction in the fighting or a complete cease fire before that limit is reached. It's a little late to say 'Oh, we passed what I consider to be acceptable some time ago.'

So what are you going to do when that 'more reliable information is available'? Make a decision then? Or just say 'Keep going, I'll let you know when we've reached a point where you should stop.'

And be sure to let us know which organisation you'll be relying on to give that 'reliable information.' Not who you won't, but who you will.

I wont be calling for anything - that is not my function.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Then, allowing for a minor detour, you can link to something that shows that Christians lie less than anyone from any other religion. Actually let's make that religion Islam, shall we?

Well, a start would be to study the Koran and see what it says about when lying is justified.

Then look at The Bible and see when lying is justified (if at all).

This sets a foundation for social behaviour.

 

[Pommer]

No one knows... Best wait and see when more reliable information is available.

I’ve seen IDF sourced numbers that tout about 12,000 dead Gazans, and somehow every single one of them just happened to have been a “terrorist”.

 

[Bradskii]

I wont be calling for anything - that is not my function.

It's not your function. But as observers, each of us with an opinion on what is right or wrong, it is a duty that each of us has to say 'Stop, no more' when we think something is wrong. When we see an injustice.

I think that four thousand dead children is wrong. Putting it very mildly indeed. What's your opinion? Or shall we wait for more 'accurate' figures before you decide?

And which organisation are we going to trust to give us those?

 

[Bradskii]

Well, a start would be to study the Koran and see what it says about when lying is justified.

Then look at The Bible and see when lying is justified (if at all).

This sets a foundation for social behaviour.

I'm not asking what holy books say. I'm asking whether it makes a difference if you are Christian or Muslim if you lie more or less. I've already investigated this for half an hour. Which tells me what I need to know. But I'd like some evidence from you. You spent more than 30 minutes on the matter so you'll surely have something I can read.

 

[Canuckster]

You can see for yourself how accurate the Palestinians are and how much they propagandize. The jihadists think any amount of dead are worth the price of success. The jihadists are willing to pay the price. For Israel, the idea is to minimize innocent deaths. To do nothing will cost more innocent lives, and Israel is not willing to pay that price. From their perspective the choice is a no-brainer. You can see what appeasement did when Joe paid billions to get some American hostages returned--Iranian backed Hamas kidnapped more Americans, and Israelis.

A Jewish man who worked on the Gaza border gives evidence attacks were allowed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm not asking what holy books say. I'm asking whether it makes a difference if you are Christian or Muslim if you lie more or less. I've already investigated this for half an hour. Which tells me what I need to know. But I'd like some evidence from you. You spent more than 30 minutes on the matter so you'll surely have something I can read.

What the 'Holy Books' say conditions culture.

Try reading the Bible - start with the book of John...

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's not your function. But as observers, each of us with an opinion on what is right or wrong, it is a duty that each of us has to say 'Stop, no more' when we think something is wrong. When we see an injustice.

I think that four thousand dead children is wrong. Putting it very mildly indeed. What's your opinion? Or shall we wait for more 'accurate' figures before you decide?

And which organisation are we going to trust to give us those?

I don't 'trust' any human organisation.

Your perception of 'injustice' is just that... your perception.

I don't believe in playing God.