Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

[daq]

Honestly, I'll leave the meanings of Greek words to the Greek Church.

Suit yourself.

 

[HTacianas]

I do not believe the bible was delivered by your church or the Catholic church.

I believe the bible was written through the Holy Spirit 2 Tim 3:16 and it is to be the guide to our path Psa 119:105 and if we go away from His Word we are warned its not coming from God Isa 8:20 so when most churches teach the commandments of man over the commandments of God, we should believe the Words of our Savior Mat 15:3-9

It seems like you are pointing everywhere except where it says in God's Word the first day is the new day of worship, God's new holy day, the new day God sanctified and blessed or the new Sabbath. If we trust the promises of scripture I would want that if I was going to go away from a commandment of God in lieu of a more popular path established, not God.

We will probably have to agree to disagree, I do wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

Ii was the Church that sorted through all of the ancient writings to be found to find the truth. They had authentic books, gnostic heresies, fan fiction writings, and all sorts of other things floating around at the time but settled on the books we have now. The others they ordered destroyed. Ironically, that led to the Muslim idea of the Injil that had been suppressed by the Church.

I have shown you in God's holy word where the Apostles consistently gathered on the first day of the week for the Eucharist but your tradition holds to something else. That gathering is even attested to by outside sources. Pliny wrote to Trajan concerning the practices of Christians in Bythnia saying:

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food.

That describes a day of the week when they would assemble before dawn and then break bread. Just like the Apostles did.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Acts 13:42-44
King James Version (KJV)
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Now we see the Gentiles keep the Sabbath in Antioch as we see Paul when he came there, meeting with them in the synagogue on the Sabbath day.

Why did they go to the synagogues on the Sabbath? The verses you quoted tell us why they were there.

“The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13‬:‭44‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

They went to the synagogues to preach the word of God and people came to the synagogues to hear the word of God. It doesn’t say anything about them going to the synagogue to keep the 4th commandment.

“When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. So putting out to sea from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and on the day following to Neapolis; and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia, a Roman colony; and we were staying in this city for some days. And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16‬:‭10‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In this verse they didn’t go to a synagogue on the Sabbath day, they went and preached to some women beside a river. They preached the gospel everyday except for a few occasions when the Holy Spirit told them not to. Just because the scriptures say they went to a synagogue on the Sabbath doesn’t mean they went there to keep the 4th commandment. What better time & place to preach the gospel than a synagogue full of believers in God who knew the prophecies of the Messiah? Of course they would preach in the synagogues on the Sabbath, they were full of believers of God who knew the prophecies of the Messiah. It would be ridiculous if they didn’t go to the synagogues on the sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ii was the Church that sorted through all of the ancient writings to be found to find the truth. They had authentic books, gnostic heresies, fan fiction writings, and all sorts of other things floating around at the time but settled on the books we have now. The others they ordered destroyed. Ironically, that led to the Muslim idea of the Injil that had been suppressed by the Church.

I have shown you in God's holy word where the Apostles consistently gathered on the first day of the week for the Eucharist but your tradition holds to something else. That gathering is even attested to by outside sources. Pliny wrote to Trajan concerning the practices of Christians in Bythnia saying:

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food.

That describes a day of the week when they would assemble before dawn and then break bread. Just like the Apostles did.

God’s Word tells us His Church are those who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus. Rev 14:12 Rev 12:17 The Sabbath is a commandment of God spoken and written on God”s authority so for me I look for a church that aligns with His Word. God gives us free will though and this all gets sorted out soon enough. Thanks for the chat and God bless.

 

[daq]

Once again the Biblical day starts and ends at sundown.

Genesis 1: 6 ¶And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

So the Sabbath begins and ends at sundown.

That doesn't teach what you say at all, in fact, it supports what I said to HTacianas in my previous post before last. Just believe what it says: an evening and a morning, not morning and then evening.

 

[daq]

That doesn't teach what you say at all, in fact, it supports what I said to HTacianas in my previous post before last. Just believe what it says: an evening and a morning, not morning and then evening.

There are twelve hours in a day, not twenty-four.

Insisting that a day is twenty-four hours according to the scripture is tantamount to disbelief, and those who do so only reveal that they walk half their day in the light and half their day in the darkness, and therefore they stumble, and there is no light in them according to the Master himself in the following passage.

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

This is why there is no mention of darkness or night between the creation days of the opening creation account, for Elohim divided the light from the darkness, and the night or darkness is not recognized: and if the Master says, What therefore Elohim has joined together, let not man put asunder, (Matthew 19:6, speaking of marriage), then it is to be understood the same way in reverse concerning the teaching herein, What Elohim has divided, let not man join together, speaking of combining the light with the darkness in the understanding of what constitutes a day in Biblical time reckoning.

If therefore there are twelve hours in a day, and there are according to the statement quoted above, then how long is a morning? This is just common sense but is also explained in the scripture. The morning is from sunrise to midday, which is six hours, for the time of evening is the time when women go forth to draw water, and we know both of these times from the scripture.

Genesis 24:11 ASV
11 And he made the camels to kneel down without the city by the well of water at the time of evening, the time that women go out to draw water.

The time of evening commences at the time when women go forth to draw water, (an idiom), and this time of day is noted as the sixth hour in the following passage, and by the context the meaning is clear because the woman of Samaria goes out to draw water: it is therefore the same time of evening mentioned in Genesis 24:11.

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

Therefore, according to the scripture, the time of evening is about the sixth hour of the day, (which is when the women go forth to draw water, including the woman of Samaria in John 4). Thus we have six hours in the evening time period, from the sixth hour of the day until sundown, just as there are six hours in the morning time period, from sunrise to midday, which is about the sixth hour of the day. And the civil calendar day is twelve hours, not twenty-four, and yet the evening comes first, just as it is written in the six days of creation in the opening creation account, without any mention of night or darkness in between those six days.

There is therefore an evening, (which is six hours), and there is a morning, (which is six hours), and because Elohim divided between the light and the darkness, the night in between is not reckoned as part of the day. Thus the day is reckoned from midday to midday: not from evening to evening, neither from morning to morning, but from midday to midday, the tzohorim hour wherein the morning light transforms into the evening light.

The key phrase from Acts 20:7, μια των σαββατων, therefore becomes more clear when the scripture precepts above herein are believed and upheld.

Matthew 28:1 T/R-N/A-W/H
1 οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθε μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον

Matthew 28:1 KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Matthew 28:1 ASV
1 Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Because of the previous statement, which has now been separated by the chapter break, (Matthew 27:66), δε should probably read as but in the text, other than that, the ASV is close enough with the exception that, here again, μιαν σαββατων is erroneously rendered as the first day of the week, (and thankfully, at least both the KJV and the ASV put the word day in italics because even that is not in the text). If you do not add day into it, and you read it literally for what it says, μιαν σαββατων should be read as first of the sabbaths, but once one realizes that σαββατων is also employed for the weekly singular day of the Shabbat in both the LXX and Luke 4:16, this can be read as first of the Shabbat, meaning the weekly Shabbat.

As mentioned previously, the first half of the Shabbat is the first light of Shabbat, which is epiphosko, (επιφωσκω), which is actually found in this Matthew text, and the first light of the Shabbat is the evening portion of the day, which is six hours, and because the day starts at the tzohorim hour, which means double light or two lights, the text perfectly concurs with that first century reasoning regarding the separation of the day into evenings and mornings at midday. The first light of the Shabbat is the evening portion of the day and the first half of the Shabbat: the six hours of evening time.

οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων...
But late in the Shabbat, the first-light-dawning in first of the Shabbat...

The first mention of σαββατων speaks of the weekly twelve hour day of the Shabbat. The second mention of σαββατων explains which portion of that same day: the first, which is the six hours of the evening portion of that twelve hour day. The second half of that same day commences at sunrise the next morning, and includes the six hours of morning time, from sunrise until midday.

 

[reddogs]

If you look at all of that you will find a common thread. That thread being the general worldview. It is written entirely from the standpoint of the Protestant/Catholic divide, and show no universal knowledge. And by that I mean it leaves the Eastern Churches out entirely. There is no knowledge of global Christianity. Now if the Roman Church wants to claim that they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday within their ow Church then so be it. They have the authority to do that. But it was not changed -if it ever was- by decree, but by acceptance of the entirety of the Church, not just the Roman Church. The entirety of the Church does in fact have the authority to make that change but the Church never did. The Church has simply gathered to worship on Sunday because that is what the Apostolic Churches were taught to do by the Apostles. And the matter is resolved.

So they can go against God, and that makes it ok, sounds like something that men come up with that sounds good to them.

John 11:50
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

 

[HTacianas]

So they can go against God, and that makes it ok, sounds like something that men come up with that sounds good to them.

John 11:50
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

No one has gone against God. Anything they did was with the full authority of Jesus Christ.

 

[Gary K]

There are twelve hours in a day, not twenty-four.

Insisting that a day is twenty-four hours according to the scripture is tantamount to disbelief, and those who do so only reveal that they walk half their day in the light and half their day in the darkness, and therefore they stumble, and there is no light in them according to the Master himself in the following passage.

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

This is why there is no mention of darkness or night between the creation days of the opening creation account, for Elohim divided the light from the darkness, and the night or darkness is not recognized: and if the Master says, What therefore Elohim has joined together, let not man put asunder, (Matthew 19:6, speaking of marriage), then it is to be understood the same way in reverse concerning the teaching herein, What Elohim has divided, let not man join together, speaking of combining the light with the darkness in the understanding of what constitutes a day in Biblical time reckoning.

If therefore there are twelve hours in a day, and there are according to the statement quoted above, then how long is a morning? This is just common sense but is also explained in the scripture. The morning is from sunrise to midday, which is six hours, for the time of evening is the time when women go forth to draw water, and we know both of these times from the scripture.

Genesis 24:11 ASV
11 And he made the camels to kneel down without the city by the well of water at the time of evening, the time that women go out to draw water.

The time of evening commences at the time when women go forth to draw water, (an idiom), and this time of day is noted as the sixth hour in the following passage, and by the context the meaning is clear because the woman of Samaria goes out to draw water: it is therefore the same time of evening mentioned in Genesis 24:11.

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

Therefore, according to the scripture, the time of evening is about the sixth hour of the day, (which is when the women go forth to draw water, including the woman of Samaria in John 4). Thus we have six hours in the evening time period, from the sixth hour of the day until sundown, just as there are six hours in the morning time period, from sunrise to midday, which is about the sixth hour of the day. And the civil calendar day is twelve hours, not twenty-four, and yet the evening comes first, just as it is written in the six days of creation in the opening creation account, without any mention of night or darkness in between those six days.

There is therefore an evening, (which is six hours), and there is a morning, (which is six hours), and because Elohim divided between the light and the darkness, the night in between is not reckoned as part of the day. Thus the day is reckoned from midday to midday: not from evening to evening, neither from morning to morning, but from midday to midday, the tzohorim hour wherein the morning light transforms into the evening light.

The key phrase from Acts 20:7, μια των σαββατων, therefore becomes more clear when the scripture precepts above herein are believed and upheld.

Matthew 28:1 T/R-N/A-W/H
1 οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθε μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον

Matthew 28:1 KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Matthew 28:1 ASV
1 Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Because of the previous statement, which has now been separated by the chapter break, (Matthew 27:66), δε should probably read as but in the text, other than that, the ASV is close enough with the exception that, here again, μιαν σαββατων is erroneously rendered as the first day of the week, (and thankfully, at least both the KJV and the ASV put the word day in italics because even that is not in the text). If you do not add day into it, and you read it literally for what it says, μιαν σαββατων should be read as first of the sabbaths, but once one realizes that σαββατων is also employed for the weekly singular day of the Shabbat in both the LXX and Luke 4:16, this can be read as first of the Shabbat, meaning the weekly Shabbat.

As mentioned previously, the first half of the Shabbat is the first light of Shabbat, which is epiphosko, (επιφωσκω), which is actually found in this Matthew text, and the first light of the Shabbat is the evening portion of the day, which is six hours, and because the day starts at the tzohorim hour, which means double light or two lights, the text perfectly concurs with that first century reasoning regarding the separation of the day into evenings and mornings at midday. The first light of the Shabbat is the evening portion of the day and the first half of the Shabbat: the six hours of evening time.

οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων...
But late in the Shabbat, the first-light-dawning in first of the Shabbat...

The first mention of σαββατων speaks of the weekly twelve hour day of the Shabbat. The second mention of σαββατων explains which portion of that same day: the first, which is the six hours of the evening portion of that twelve hour day. The second half of that same day commences at sunrise the next morning, and includes the six hours of morning time, from sunrise until midday.

Huh? So you will toss out the Biblical account of creation and the day to day evidence of the rotation of the earth? To tell the truth I'm shocked to hear this coming from you.

 

[daq]

Huh? So you will toss out the Biblical account of creation and the day to day evidence of the rotation of the earth? To tell the truth I'm shocked to hear this coming from you.

And am I shocked to hear that you do not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah? No, and in fact you would not be able to answer the question which he puts to his talmidim in John 11:9 without being forced to fall back on your church teachings and prophetess, proving that those are your teachers rather than the scripture. We are all to be taught of Elohim, (Jhn 6:45, Isa 54:13, Jer 31:34), and thus one cannot rightly answer the question from his or her own teachers of men but must answer from the scripture. Not knowing where this instruction is actually taught in the scripture is therefore catastrophic for not heeding the Testimony of the Meshiah which points you to the Torah where, indeed, a twelve hour civil calendar day is taught.

So you believe your teachers and prophetess, and you start a new day at sundown, and continue on through twelve hours of night, and when you awaken in the morning your day is already spent sleeping through the night because there are only twelve hours in a day and yet the night itself is also twelve hours divided into four watches, and there is therefore no supernal shachar because you did not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah in John 11:9-10.

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. [Isa 8:20]

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the Torah and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light [שחר - shachar] in them.

Shachar in this sense is the light of dawn.
Moreover Paul teaches the same:

1 Thessalonians 5:5-8 ASV
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that are drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, since we are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

Does the above only speak of supernal things while being irrelevant to the calendar and calendar days?
Dream on... everything is perfect and in perfect harmony when correctly understood.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

[/QUOTE]

And am I shocked to hear that you do not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah? No, and in fact you would not be able to answer the question which he puts to his talmidim in John 11:9 without being forced to fall back on your church teachings and prophetess, proving that those are your teachers rather than the scripture. We are all to be taught of Elohim, (Jhn 6:45, Isa 54:13, Jer 31:34), and thus one cannot rightly answer the question from his or her own teachers of men but must answer from the scripture. Not knowing where this instruction is actually taught in the scripture is therefore catastrophic for not heeding the Testimony of the Meshiah which points you to the Torah where, indeed, a twelve hour civil calendar day is taught.

So you believe your teachers and prophetess, and you start a new day at sundown, and continue on through twelve hours of night, and when you awaken in the morning your day is already spent sleeping through the night because there are only twelve hours in a day and yet the night itself is also twelve hours divided into four watches, and there is therefore no supernal shachar because you did not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah in John 11:9-10.

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. [Isa 8:20]

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the Torah and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light [שחר - shachar] in them.

Shachar in this sense is the light of dawn.
Moreover Paul teaches the same:

1 Thessalonians 5:5-8 ASV
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that are drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, since we are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

Does the above only speak of supernal things while being irrelevant to the calendar and calendar days?
Dream on... everything is perfect and in perfect harmony when correctly understood.

You're taking these scriptures out of context. Light in scripture is often used as a metaphor for "Truth" God's Word and spiritual state

John 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Psalms 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
1 John 2:10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Scripture plainly tells us the Sabbath is from evening to evening and that is a 24 hours period. Leviticus 23:32

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.”

 

[Gary K]

And am I shocked to hear that you do not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah? No, and in fact you would not be able to answer the question which he puts to his talmidim in John 11:9 without being forced to fall back on your church teachings and prophetess, proving that those are your teachers rather than the scripture. We are all to be taught of Elohim, (Jhn 6:45, Isa 54:13, Jer 31:34), and thus one cannot rightly answer the question from his or her own teachers of men but must answer from the scripture. Not knowing where this instruction is actually taught in the scripture is therefore catastrophic for not heeding the Testimony of the Meshiah which points you to the Torah where, indeed, a twelve hour civil calendar day is taught.

So you believe your teachers and prophetess, and you start a new day at sundown, and continue on through twelve hours of night, and when you awaken in the morning your day is already spent sleeping through the night because there are only twelve hours in a day and yet the night itself is also twelve hours divided into four watches, and there is therefore no supernal shachar because you did not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah in John 11:9-10.

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. [Isa 8:20]

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the Torah and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light [שחר - shachar] in them.

Shachar in this sense is the light of dawn.
Moreover Paul teaches the same:

1 Thessalonians 5:5-8 ASV
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that are drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, since we are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

Does the above only speak of supernal things while being irrelevant to the calendar and calendar days?
Dream on... everything is perfect and in perfect harmony when correctly understood.

So?

 

[daq]

You're taking these scriptures out of context. Light in scripture is often used as a metaphor for "Truth" God's Word and spiritual state

John 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Psalms 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
1 John 2:10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

No, I am including both teachings in those contexts which includes the calendar and calendar days: perhaps it is you who are omitting one or the other so as to formulate your version of what constitutes a calendar day? To suggest that the opening creation account has nothing to do with calendar days is preposterous even to the point of hypocritical if indeed you yourself use the same passage for your professed understanding of the calendar. To suggest that the opening creation account does not speak in spiritual terms of darkness representing blindness and evil is also just as preposterous.

Do you do either one of these yourself? One of your fellow SDA's just did exactly that by ignoring the supernal teachings regarding night and darkness so that he could mix night and darkness back into his version of a day, which he has said is twenty-four hours, and I am quite sure that you say the same because the SDA's are taught that the Shabbat begins at sundown, (and therefore all the days of the week would surely be no different). I have not done that and it should be pretty clear from my posts and responses.

Scripture plainly tells us the Sabbath is from evening to evening and that is a 24 hours period. Leviticus 23:32

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.”

That actually says from evening until evening: it confirms what I believe and is one of the reasons I believe what I believe. Moreover it also proves to be true in the hours of the sacred calendar day because the seventh hour Shabbat on the sacred calendar day corresponds to the tenth hour on the civil calendar day. These things are all over the place in the Gospel of John but mostly go unrecognized for some strange reason.

John 1:35-39 KJV
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

If people understood the sacred calendar day, and its correlation to the civil calendar day, they might begin to understand that this tenth hour in the above passage is the Shabbat hour on the sacred calendar day which is taught in the opening creation account, but it is simply referred to herein according to the hours of the civil calendar day to lock in the timing. This is done in like manner in the passage you have quoted, Lev 23:32, so that the hearer and reader may understand both the full days of the civil calendar day, which are twelve yom-hours, and the seven yamim-hours of the sacred calendar day, and their relationship together in a single full yom-day. It is a way of locking in the understanding.

The time of evening has already been addressed and proven from Gen 24:11 and Jhn 4:6-7, and it is the sixth hour for anyone who is actually willing to believe what the scripture is teaching: therefore "at evening", (Lev 23:32), if that is indeed what the text means in that case, would essentially be like an ellipsis for at evening time, (Gen 24:11), which is the sixth hour of the day, (Jhn 4:6-7), and what then follows in Lev 23:32, from evening until evening, would surely mean from the start of evening time, (the sixth hour of the day), until the start of evening time the next day, (the sixth hour of the day). This is precisely how it works out on both the civil and the sacred calendar days when they are viewed together as overlapping in the same calendar day. The hours of the sacred calendar day fit into the hours of the civil calendar day in exact accordance with all things written on the matter, and specifically the twice daily oblations, the hours of the prayer times, the tzohorim-midday hour of prayer, (Acts 10:9), and the same hours mentioned in the all-important crucifixion narratives.

Note the daily Shabbat hour of the sacred calendar day: it corresponds with the bottom of the ninth hour to the bottom of the tenth hour on the civil calendar day, which is evening until evening because it commences at the bottom of the hour: the yom-hour commences with the evening portion of the hour, (sacred calendar day).

This is the daily Shabbat hour wherein the scripture teaches that the Lamb (Son) of Elohim dwells in John 1:35-39 quoted above, that is, the tenth hour of the civil calendar day which is the Shabbat hour on the sacred calendar day. Thus the Son dwells in the Shabbat according to John 1:35-39.

The half hour of silence should be well known to SDA's, being taught in Rev 8:1-4, which is surely one of the prayer times, (incense with the prayers of the holy ones), and thus, also one of the twice daily oblation times. The half hour of silence is the evening portion of the hour, which places the commencement of the prayer time at the top of the tenth hour in the Shabbat hour on the civil calendar day. All these things are from the Torah and Prophets, (including the Apocalypse).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, I am including both teachings in those contexts which includes the calendar and calendar days: perhaps it is you who are omitting one or the other so as to formulate your version of what constitutes a calendar day? To suggest that the opening creation account has nothing to do with calendar days is preposterous even to the point of hypocritical if indeed you yourself use the same passage for your professed understanding of the calendar. To suggest that the opening creation account does not speak in spiritual terms of darkness representing blindness and evil is also just as preposterous.

Do you do either one of these yourself? One of your fellow SDA's just did exactly that by ignoring the supernal teachings regarding night and darkness so that he could mix night and darkness back into his version of a day, which he has said is twenty-four hours, and I am quite sure that you say the same because the SDA's are taught that the Shabbat begins at sundown, (and therefore all the days of the week would surely be no different). I have not done that and it should be pretty clear from my posts and responses.



That actually says from evening until evening: it confirms what I believe and is one of the reasons I believe what I believe. Moreover it also proves to be true in the hours of the sacred calendar day because the seventh hour Shabbat on the sacred calendar day corresponds to the tenth hour on the civil calendar day. These things are all over the place in the Gospel of John but mostly go unrecognized for some strange reason.

John 1:35-39 KJV
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

If people understood the sacred calendar day, and its correlation to the civil calendar day, they might begin to understand that this tenth hour in the above passage is the Shabbat hour on the sacred calendar day which is taught in the opening creation account, but it is simply referred to herein according to the hours of the civil calendar day to lock in the timing. This is done in like manner in the passage you have quoted, Lev 23:32, so that the hearer and reader may understand both the full days of the civil calendar day, which are twelve yom-hours, and the seven yamim-hours of the sacred calendar day, and their relationship together in a single full yom-day. It is a way of locking in the understanding.

The time of evening has already been addressed and proven from Gen 24:11 and Jhn 4:6-7, and it is the sixth hour for anyone who is actually willing to believe what the scripture is teaching: therefore "at evening", (Lev 23:32), if that is indeed what the text means in that case, would essentially be like an ellipsis for at evening time, (Gen 24:11), which is the sixth hour of the day, (Jhn 4:6-7), and what then follows in Lev 23:32, from evening until evening, would surely mean from the start of evening time, (the sixth hour of the day), until the start of evening time the next day, (the sixth hour of the day). This is precisely how it works out on both the civil and the sacred calendar days when they are viewed together as overlapping in the same calendar day. The hours of the sacred calendar day fit into the hours of the civil calendar day in exact accordance with all things written on the matter, and specifically the twice daily oblations, the hours of the prayer times, the tzohorim-midday hour of prayer, (Acts 10:9), and the same hours mentioned in the all-important crucifixion narratives.

View attachment 339366

Note the daily Shabbat hour of the sacred calendar day: it corresponds with the bottom of the ninth hour to the bottom of the tenth hour on the civil calendar day, which is evening until evening because it commences at the bottom of the hour: the yom-hour commences with the evening portion of the hour, (sacred calendar day).

This is the daily Shabbat hour wherein the scripture teaches that the Lamb (Son) of Elohim dwells in John 1:35-39 quoted above, that is, the tenth hour of the civil calendar day which is the Shabbat hour on the sacred calendar day. Thus the Son dwells in the Shabbat according to John 1:35-39.

The half hour of silence should be well known to SDA's, being taught in Rev 8:1-4, which is surely one of the prayer times, (incense with the prayers of the holy ones), and thus, also one of the twice daily oblation times. The half hour of silence is the evening portion of the hour, which places the commencement of the prayer time at the top of the tenth hour in the Shabbat hour on the civil calendar day. All these things are from the Torah and Prophets, (including the Apocalypse).

What is your version of what a day means? Whatever argument you're trying to make, I am not following with the scripture you posted. You claim you get your teaching from Lev 23:32 which clearly states from evening to evening, which is a 24 hour period. So not sure how one can come up to any other conclusion than this.

 

[daq]

What is your version of what a day means? Whatever argument you're trying to make, I am not following with the scripture you posted. You claim you get your teaching from Lev 23:32 which clearly states from evening to evening, which is a 24 hour period. So not sure how one can come up to any other conclusion than this.

I just posted what I believe constitutes a calendar day according to the scripture and even included an image file to help explain it. The fact that you have decided to ignore the instruction taught in Genesis 24:11, and choose rather to believe that evening can only mean sundown, does not change the truth.

 

[Lukaris]

The Sabbath Day observance was changed among the early Christians. While testimony is slight ( Revelation 1:10) , the earliest surviving post apostolic records use the “Lord’s Day” from Revelation 1:10 as the term for Sunday worship. These records are over 200 years prior to Constantine so he is a non factor.

The Didache ( about 100 AD):


Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."


St. Ignatius to the ancient church in Magnesia ( about 100 AD):



CHAPTER 9
9:1 If then those who had walked in ancient
practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer
observing sabbaths but fashioning their lives after
the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through
Him and through His death which some men deny -- a
mystery whereby we attained unto belief, and for this
cause we endure patiently, that we may be found
disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher --
9:2 if this be so, how shall we be able to live
apart from Him? seeing that even the prophets, being
His disciples, were expecting Him as their teacher
through the Spirit. And for this cause He whom they
rightly awaited, when He came, raised them from the
dead.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Lightfoot translation)

Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Lightfoot translation). On Early Christian Writings.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

That is what the early Christians did was eventually worship on Sunday. The breaking of bread, more precisely understood as the Eucharist in Orthodox, Catholic faiths, is the sacrament of worship. That is what happened; the mustard seed is in the Gospel and from it the faith grew ( Matthew 17:20).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Sabbath Day observance was changed among the early Christians. While testimony is slight ( Revelation 1:10) , the earliest surviving post apostolic records use the “Lord’s Day” from Revelation 1:10 as the term for Sunday worship. These records are over 200 years prior to Constantine so he is a non factor.

The Didache ( about 100 AD):


Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."


St. Ignatius to the ancient church in Magnesia ( about 100 AD):



CHAPTER 9
9:1 If then those who had walked in ancient
practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer
observing sabbaths but fashioning their lives after
the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through
Him and through His death which some men deny -- a
mystery whereby we attained unto belief, and for this
cause we endure patiently, that we may be found
disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher --
9:2 if this be so, how shall we be able to live
apart from Him? seeing that even the prophets, being
His disciples, were expecting Him as their teacher
through the Spirit. And for this cause He whom they
rightly awaited, when He came, raised them from the
dead.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Lightfoot translation)

Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Lightfoot translation). On Early Christian Writings.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

That is what the early Christians did was eventually worship on Sunday. The breaking of bread, more precisely understood as the Eucharist in Orthodox, Catholic faiths, is the sacrament of worship. That is what happened; the mustard seed is in the Gospel and from it the faith grew ( Matthew 17:20).

Sorry there is no reference to Revelation 1:10 as being the first day. The only way one makes this case if we add it to God's pure Word, something we are told not to do. Pro 30:5-6

This goes against God's very own Words, written and spoken by God.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God
Isaiah 58:13 The Sabbath is My holy day
The Sabbath never went away in the NT.......

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28 i.e. Sabbath of the Lord that He calls My holy day.

The Sabbath continues for worship for His saints Isa 66:22-23

Why would all through scripture everything was about the Sabbath from the beginning Genesis 2:1-3 to the end Isa 66:22-23 but somewhere after the death of Jesus after the death of the disciples there was a change yet not one person can post scripture stating the Sabbath was changed to the first day, is God's new holy day, a new day of worship, only to be changed back once Jesus makes the New Heaven and New Earth. Sounds to me like an old fable that has deceived so many. Exactly what we are warned about in God's holy Word. Dan 7:25

 

[daq]

The Sabbath Day observance was changed among the early Christians. While testimony is slight ( Revelation 1:10) , the earliest surviving post apostolic records use the “Lord’s Day” from Revelation 1:10 as the term for Sunday worship. These records are over 200 years prior to Constantine so he is a non factor.

The Didache ( about 100 AD):


Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Having read the entire Didache, which isn't very long, (for others who may not have ever read it), it does not mention any change from the Shabbat to the first day of the week. Additionally the passage you have quoted not only contains a quote from the first chapter of Malachi, (the portion in quotation marks), but also says nothing about "the Lord's Day" being the first day of the week. It simply uses that phrase and you appear to be assuming it automatically means the first day of the week, (confirmation bias).

 

[JSRG]

There are twelve hours in a day, not twenty-four.

Insisting that a day is twenty-four hours according to the scripture is tantamount to disbelief, and those who do so only reveal that they walk half their day in the light and half their day in the darkness, and therefore they stumble, and there is no light in them according to the Master himself in the following passage.

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

This is why there is no mention of darkness or night between the creation days of the opening creation account, for Elohim divided the light from the darkness, and the night or darkness is not recognized: and if the Master says, What therefore Elohim has joined together, let not man put asunder, (Matthew 19:6, speaking of marriage), then it is to be understood the same way in reverse concerning the teaching herein, What Elohim has divided, let not man join together, speaking of combining the light with the darkness in the understanding of what constitutes a day in Biblical time reckoning.

If therefore there are twelve hours in a day, and there are according to the statement quoted above, then how long is a morning? This is just common sense but is also explained in the scripture. The morning is from sunrise to midday, which is six hours, for the time of evening is the time when women go forth to draw water, and we know both of these times from the scripture.

Genesis 24:11 ASV
11 And he made the camels to kneel down without the city by the well of water at the time of evening, the time that women go out to draw water.

The time of evening commences at the time when women go forth to draw water, (an idiom), and this time of day is noted as the sixth hour in the following passage, and by the context the meaning is clear because the woman of Samaria goes out to draw water: it is therefore the same time of evening mentioned in Genesis 24:11.

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

Therefore, according to the scripture, the time of evening is about the sixth hour of the day, (which is when the women go forth to draw water, including the woman of Samaria in John 4). Thus we have six hours in the evening time period, from the sixth hour of the day until sundown, just as there are six hours in the morning time period, from sunrise to midday, which is about the sixth hour of the day. And the civil calendar day is twelve hours, not twenty-four, and yet the evening comes first, just as it is written in the six days of creation in the opening creation account, without any mention of night or darkness in between those six days.

There is therefore an evening, (which is six hours), and there is a morning, (which is six hours), and because Elohim divided between the light and the darkness, the night in between is not reckoned as part of the day. Thus the day is reckoned from midday to midday: not from evening to evening, neither from morning to morning, but from midday to midday, the tzohorim hour wherein the morning light transforms into the evening light.

The key phrase from Acts 20:7, μια των σαββατων, therefore becomes more clear when the scripture precepts above herein are believed and upheld.

Matthew 28:1 T/R-N/A-W/H
1 οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθε μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον

Matthew 28:1 KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Matthew 28:1 ASV
1 Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Because of the previous statement, which has now been separated by the chapter break, (Matthew 27:66), δε should probably read as but in the text, other than that, the ASV is close enough with the exception that, here again, μιαν σαββατων is erroneously rendered as the first day of the week, (and thankfully, at least both the KJV and the ASV put the word day in italics because even that is not in the text). If you do not add day into it, and you read it literally for what it says, μιαν σαββατων should be read as first of the sabbaths, but once one realizes that σαββατων is also employed for the weekly singular day of the Shabbat in both the LXX and Luke 4:16, this can be read as first of the Shabbat, meaning the weekly Shabbat.

As mentioned previously, the first half of the Shabbat is the first light of Shabbat, which is epiphosko, (επιφωσκω), which is actually found in this Matthew text, and the first light of the Shabbat is the evening portion of the day, which is six hours, and because the day starts at the tzohorim hour, which means double light or two lights, the text perfectly concurs with that first century reasoning regarding the separation of the day into evenings and mornings at midday. The first light of the Shabbat is the evening portion of the day and the first half of the Shabbat: the six hours of evening time.

οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων...
But late in the Shabbat, the first-light-dawning in first of the Shabbat...

The first mention of σαββατων speaks of the weekly twelve hour day of the Shabbat. The second mention of σαββατων explains which portion of that same day: the first, which is the six hours of the evening portion of that twelve hour day. The second half of that same day commences at sunrise the next morning, and includes the six hours of morning time, from sunrise until midday.

I am having difficulty ascertaining what point you are trying to make. Are you attempting to argue that the women visiting the tomb in the Resurrection narrative occurred on Saturday evening, not Sunday morning?

 

[Lukaris]

Having read the entire Didache, which isn't very long, (for others who may not have ever read it), it does not mention any change from the Shabbat to the first day of the week. Additionally the passage you have quoted not only contains a quote from the first chapter of Malachi, (the portion in quotation marks), but also says nothing about "the Lord's Day" being the first day of the week. It simply uses that phrase and you appear to be assuming it automatically means the first day of the week, (confirmation bias).

Further testimony that the early Church worshiped on Sunday:

From the Apology of St. Justin ( Martyr) about 150 AD

Chapter 67. Weekly worship of the Christians​

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christour Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

​

CHURCH FATHERS: The First Apology (St. Justin Martyr)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org