"The Rest of God"

[Clare73]

Nowhere does it state that in those text.

Yes the spiritual rest due to their constant disobedience.

Still not one verse says Jesus is the Sabbath.

Still not one verse says God is the Trinity.

Thats why no scripture is ever posted to support this idea. Sad as this teaching reduces Jesus as the creation and not the Creator.

That would be Heb 3:7-4:13, where faith is the issue being addressed.

Heb 4:1-13 reveals the New Covenant spiritual reality of the Old Covenant physical Sabbath rest for the people of God (Ex 23:3; Dt 5:14), and about which OT physical rest God was most emphatic, as can be seen in Ex 31:14-15, 35:2-3; Nu 15:32-36; Jer 17:21-22, 27.
In light of its NT eternal spiritual reality; i.e., salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, we can see why God was so emphatic about Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:3 shows that the writer of Hebrews is using the example of Israel's refusal to go into promised Canaan rest (because of unbelief,
causing God to shut out--Nu 14:21-35, a whole generation of Israelites--Heb 4:3, from the promised Canaan-rest from their enemies)
as a warning not to refuse to go into NT salvation-rest because of unbelief, a warning not to return to their OT religion.

Heb 4:1-5 is about God's rest. It's about our entering (v.1) into God's full-time rest (v.3b) of salvation without works. There is a spiritual rest remaining for the people of faith, in God's own full-time Sabbath-rest. Faith, the issue here, is not related to physical rest, it is related to God's full-time spiritual salvation-rest in Jesus Christ.

No. "As God did from His" is a direct comparison. God rested from physical work on the Seventh Day, so we who have entered the rest which is the Gospel do the same.

Not quite. . .if nothing has changed, why does the writer present it as a contrast?

Heb 4:9-11 shows that while Canaan physical rest was no longer available (Heb 4:3),
there still remained a spiritual Sabbath-rest in God for those NT Hebrews,
which was not a rest from physical works, but a rest from spiritual works to earn salvation,
because God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY (Heb 4:6-7),
which is not rest in Canaan whose doors are closed (Heb 4:3),
but is the full-time Sabbath-rest of God, in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, where the believer rests full-time from his own spiritual works to save, and rests in Christ's work which has saved.

It is God's own full-time (v.3b), eternal (Isa 66:22-23**) Sabbath-rest (Heb 4:10) we enter into in the NT full-time spiritual salvation-rest of Jesus Christ, where we rest from our work to save and rest in Jesus finished work which saves, and which these NT Hebrews were in danger of not entering by returning to their OT religion.

Heb 3:7-4:13 shows that Jesus is our NT eternal Sabbath rest.

**"From Sabbath to Sabbath at the new heavens and the new earth" is eternal Sabbath rest,
as from Saturday to Saturday is full-time Sabbath rest, both of those in Jesus Christ.

 

[guevaraj]

That Sabbath rest for the people of God is in gospel grace, comfort and holiness,
as well as in an eternal rest in glory.

Sister, the passage says that you could enter this new Sabbath "day" of rest from the time of David while they are still keeping the Sabbath "day" Jesus kept in Jerusalem. The biggest clue as to this different Sabbath "day" of rest than thought of since Joshua is that God tells us that by "oath" He prevented them from entering His Sabbath "day" of rest during the 40 years in the desert when they kept the seventh day of the week with Manna near Jerusalem. Another "day" has to do with the relationship of the Sabbath "day" and the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. This new "day" had to fit the time when David was keeping the Sabbath in Jerusalem, but be different than how David thought of the Sabbath "day" of rest in Jerusalem since Joshua. The "gospel" of Jesus was not available to David because Jesus came after David. This means that this new "day" cannot be Sunday, because Sunday came after David and is incompatible with the Sabbath as kept in Jerusalem. It must be a new understanding of the Sabbath "day" that fits what David was doing in keeping the Sabbath in Jerusalem, but is different than how David thought of the Sabbath "day" since Joshua. There is something wrong with Judaism's understanding of the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week everywhere, which God wants us to correct in the following passage.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[DamianWarS]

Chapter 8 is now behind me. This Chapter is his most telling where the author reveals what he sees as actual Sabbath practice and to some it will be freeing to others I'm sure quite controversial.

The author has finished defining the legalistic side so now he goes to a byproduct of legalistic thinking which is loopholes or as he puts it "My default is, What’s the least I’m required to do and the most I can get away with?" (x121)

He challenges us with a different way of approaching Sabbath. Still value the day but knowing the Sabbath command it carries a much deeper fuller meaning that merely doing the least you can do misses the point but at the same time a legalistic motivation is also missing the point.

He quotes from LOTR to describe that Sabbath captures

"For awhile the hobbits continued to talk and think of the past journey and of the perils that lay ahead; but such was the virtue of the land of Rivendell that soon all fear and anxiety was lifted from their minds. The future, good or ill, was not forgotten, but ceased to have power over the present. Health and hope grew strong in them, and they were content with each day as it came, taking pleasure in every meal, and in every word and song." (x125)

Sabbath is a place where all other days, events and tasks, past, or future have no power. Putting aside these needs of other days so you may focus on the things that restore you and give you strength

The part that gets more controversial is the author shares that the things that restore us are different for different people. He challenges us with his golden rule of Sabbath "So I submit this as Sabbath’s golden rule: Cease from what is necessary. Embrace that which gives life." then he adds "And then do whatever you want" (x129)

Here is an example of his logic

"But I often chop wood for the sheer exhilaration of it. It makes me feel alive. It puts me in touch with earth and sky, savoring the saltiness of my sweat, the good ache in muscles seldom used, the folksy music of dry alder cracking under the swing of my maul. The same goes with cutting grass. A rhythm and luxury are there that, for me, are the exact opposite of work. The work I do most every other day—that I must do—involves reading, writing, preaching, teaching, counseling, attending meetings. I sit around a lot, advising actions, plotting courses, preparing speeches. I make numerous phone calls and always have a few dozen e-mails in the bottleneck. I talk and talk and talk, I write and write and write. To cut the grass, most times at least, pours something back into me that all that other work siphons off. It feels like playing hooky. It feels like getting a barely legal tax break. It feels like a night on the town." (x126)

I don't take issue with his logic. If you work with your mind then doing something with your hands may be restorative and if you work with your hands then doing something with your mind may be restorative while at the same time for others these same things may be destructive for them. There is a goal to break free from the tasks of every day and do whatever it is that breaths life back into you without having the need to check a rule book to see if it's ok or not.

He adds again "what category does wood chopping, antique shopping, grass cutting, cookie baking, or letter writing fit with you? Is it something you create, or something that re-creates you? Choose the re-creative thing on Sabbath." (x128). He admitts to the "do not create" rule of the Sabbath but tries to flip this to choose a motivation to recreate which is to be restorative.

My added concern with this approach is to many the "weekend" already has this role. To the 9-5, Monday to Friday office worker Saturday and Sunday act as this time to unwind and break free from the work cycle. So without purpose connected back to God then it may risk a more hedonistic motivation than a worship motivation even if we are more intentional.

To be fair the author doesn't leave it at "whatever you want" (even if he uses those exact words) but he does unpack a focus driven on a continual presence with God and in this presence is where we seek these recreating moments. However it is less stressed and may be easily forgotten. Someone may be tempted to just run with the "anything I want" line. This of course is irresponsible to the the context too since this chapter doesn't stand alone and it a building point that stands with the other chapters.

I personally already practice these things as it is natural for me to do on the weekend. I run my own business so I make my own hours but because of my family/living dynamics it's important to me that when the weekend comes I put aside work and focus on other meaningful parts of my life that get left behind during the week which seems the hit the point the author is making here. This has become a natural routine for me but I certainly can improve my intentionality of being more present in the moment over the urge to "check out".

i don't call this Sabbath but often, if not all the time, the results is still Sabbath-like but I'll admit they are just not Sabbath driven they are routine driven. I am an intentional personal by nature so spiritual purpose in all my actions is important. If I'm honest there is a fear that if I call it Sabbath then trying to keep it will actually be anti-sabbath in nature as it will just be another task I'm trying to complete.

 

[Clare73]

Sister, the passage says that you could enter this new Sabbath "day" of rest

Previously addressed in post #41.

It is now yours to demonstrate textual error in my post #43 regarding Heb 4:1-13.

 

[Studyman]

That is the burden of Heb 3:7-4:11, where in Heb 4:7-10 we rest from our own work to save and in Christ's work which saves completely.

Rejecting a commandment of God is a "work" of man, Yes? And only those men who have adopted a religion whose philosophies and tradition "transgresses God's Commandments", are those who look for ways to justify their disobedience. This has been true since Eve.

Gen. 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

In both cases here, both Adam and Eve blamed God for their disobedience. Adam, blamed the woman God gave him. Eve blamed the serpent God placed in the garden. And you are blaming the Christ who God sent to you.

When the truth is this indifference and dishonor towards God came from within them. Men naturally simply desire the wants of their own flesh. Natural man cannot even give God "ONE" day in 7, for HIS Purposes.

One thing the Sabbath fast provides for those who trust Him, is shown us in Is. 56: 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

And who is it that hunger and thirst for righteousness, is it not us? And who are poor in the spirit, who are rejected by their own family? It is not us? And whose nakedness do we see? Is it not ours?

And yet God has given us a way, specifically made for man, to come to terms with this person, "and not hide themselves from their own flesh".

And men reject God's Way in favor of the "way" of the other voice in the garden.

The Jesus of the bible didn't take away for us, what God created for us. At least not the Jesus "of the bible".

 

[Clare73]

Rejecting a commandment of God is a "work" of man, Yes?

Pretty much the same way as our rejecting a command of God in animal sacrifice is a "work" of man.

 

[guevaraj]

Not likely. Judaism's understanding of the Sabbath exceeds the gentiles by far.

Brother, everything is in the given order in Genesis and that order is "day" before "night"! God separates a period of darkness which He calls "night" after the light, and still most people against the order provided think back to the darkness before the light, when that infinite period of darkness is not the finite period of the "night" that came after the light. God separated the first day into two named parts by the boundaries of sunrise and sunset, which He called: "day" and "night" in that order. After the light, God gives the "night" part beginning at evening (sunset) and ending in morning (sunrise) as the last 12 hours of the first day that began with the 12 hours of light from first light (like morning in the special case of the first day) to evening (sunset). Where evening (sunset) falls in the middle of the two God-named parts of the first day, between "day" and "night" in that order.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening (ereb) passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Studyman]

Pretty much the same way as our rejecting a command of God in animal sacrifice is a "work" of man.

Men can justify disobedience to God's commandment in any of a number of ways. But rejecting a temporary "work" given as a temporary remedy for disobedience, after it has expired, is certainly not equal to the purposeful act of disobedience in the first place.

I mean come on. Did Jesus ever say killing goats to provide for forgiveness of sin, "Was made for man"? But HE did say, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments".

My point is that this argument is founded on justifying disobedience to a commandment Jesus said "Was made for man".

Is it really just and honest to compare killing goats which Jesus never did, with walking in God's commandments, which Jesus always did?

Shouldn't a man just be honest and say, "I don't want to honor God in His Sabbath commandment". As opposed to implying it is OK to reject God's commandments as long as we do it in Christ's Name.

 

[Studyman]

It may be that whatever a person serves is their master.

Indeed,

To whom ye "Yield yourselves" servants to obey.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Still not one verse says God is the Trinity.

That would be Heb 3:7-4:13, where faith is the issue being addressed.

Heb 4:1-13 reveals the New Covenant spiritual reality of the Old Covenant physical Sabbath rest for the people of God (Ex 23:3; Dt 5:14), and about which OT physical rest God was most emphatic, as can be seen in Ex 31:14-15, 35:2-3; Nu 15:32-36; Jer 17:21-22, 27.
In light of its NT eternal spiritual reality; i.e., salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, we can see why God was so emphatic about Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:3 shows that the writer of Hebrews is using the example of Israel's refusal to go into promised Canaan rest (because of unbelief,
causing God to shut out--Nu 14:21-35, a whole generation of Israelites--Heb 4:3, from the promised Canaan-rest from their enemies)
as a warning not to refuse to go into NT salvation-rest because of unbelief, a warning not to return to their OT religion.

Heb 4:1-5 is about God's rest. It's about our entering (v.1) into God's full-time rest (v.3b) of salvation without works. There is a spiritual rest remaining for the people of faith, in God's own full-time Sabbath-rest. Faith, the issue here, is not related to physical rest, it is related to God's full-time spiritual salvation-rest in Jesus Christ.

Not quite. . .if nothing has changed, why does the writer present it as a contrast?

Heb 4:9-11 shows that while Canaan physical rest was no longer available (Heb 4:3),
there still remained a spiritual Sabbath-rest in God for those NT Hebrews,
which was not a rest from physical works, but a rest from spiritual works to earn salvation,
because God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY (Heb 4:6-7),
which is not rest in Canaan whose doors are closed (Heb 4:3),
but is the full-time Sabbath-rest of God, in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, where the believer rests full-time from his own spiritual works to save, and rests in Christ's work which has saved.

It is God's own full-time (v.3b), eternal (Isa 66:22-23**) Sabbath-rest (Heb 4:10) we enter into in the NT full-time spiritual salvation-rest of Jesus Christ, where we rest from our work to save and rest in Jesus finished work which saves, and which these NT Hebrews were in danger of not entering by returning to their OT religion.

Heb 3:7-4:13 shows that Jesus is our NT eternal Sabbath rest.

**"From Sabbath to Sabbath at the new heavens and the new earth" is eternal Sabbath rest,
as from Saturday to Saturday is full-time Sabbath rest, both of those in Jesus Christ.

All that and yet still not one scripture showing Jesus is the Sabbath, a day or a commandment, just lots of scriptures that does not match your commentary and sadly a lot of adding to God's Word. God said the Sabbath is a day, the seventh day Exodus 20:10 even in Hebrews 4:4 which is a direct reference to the 4th commandment Exodus 20:8-11 and Creation Genesis 2:1-3. Making Jesus into one of His commandments where instead of us following His commandment and His written and spoken Word, Jesus instead does something for us, sounds like a similar teaching from the garden that if Adam and Eve were to eat from the tree of knowledge they would not surely die, the exact opposite of what Jesus said. We have free will and can do and believe what we want and could creatively do this to all of His commandments, but God said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 for good reason because man is not above God, or our our ways higher than His ways. Our word won’t save us, only following God’s Holy and unchangeable Word can. Guess we will have to agree to disagree and it will get sorted out soon enough.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Happy Sabbath friend!
Not one iota without adding to the text.


Amen! And He is our rest through Christ that empowers us have the Spiritual rest which is the Gospel. Which in turn enables us to experience the true physical rest that the Seventh Day is meant for us to experience.

We can't have true physical rest unless we have the true Spiritual rest which is of God through Christ and the Gospel.

Great point exhibited! I like the word play you did here. Never thought to do that.

Happy Sabbath!!!

Yes, its a dangerous doctrine that Jesus became a commandment and we can now disregard the 4th commandment as it is just leading people away from God's Word teaching to break a commandment, exactly what Jesus warned us not to do. Mat 5:19-30. All we can do is keep them in our prayers.

Hope you have a blessed day my friend!

 

[Studyman]

I think that is simply disobedience, sin, transgression - and perhaps involves also the sin that leads to death (i.e. very vital, not unimportant).
==========================
Scripture dies describe many , or few, conditions that are either true or not true,
and the results.
So few appear to be saved, but rejoice if and when they are seen.
Be skeptical instead of those who boast that they are saved, but don't appear to be!

============================================
Rejecting things is not a work in itself.
Rejecting to drive a vehicle off a bridge is not a work!

But wouldn't refusing to take medicine prescribed to me, for what ails me, be considered a "work" of mine? And on the death bed, would I be able to blame the Physician who prescribed to me, because he didn't Force me to take the medicine?

I think about the Christ's Words regarding the Pharisees who rejected God's Prescriptions.

Matt. 23: 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

I think about, "And if those who take their prescribed medicine "Scarcely be saved", what shall be the fate of those who refuse to take the prescribed medicine at all?

I love your perspective, it always makes me think.

 

[HIM]

. I'm not sure why this needs to be challenged any further.

Of coarse not. You believe what the book says for the most part and what you post. The reason others post contrary is because they are trying to show others and you what the book says and what you are saying isn’t true. Duty driven

 

[Clare73]

Men can justify disobedience to God's commandment in any of a number of ways. But rejecting a temporary "work" given as a temporary remedy for disobedience, after it has expired, is certainly not equal to the purposeful act of disobedience in the first place.

I mean come on. Did Jesus ever say killing goats to provide for forgiveness of sin, "Was made for man"? But HE did say, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments".

My point is that this argument is founded on justifying disobedience to a commandment Jesus said "Was made for man".

Is it really just and honest to compare killing goats which Jesus never did, with walking in God's commandments, which Jesus always did?

Shouldn't a man just be honest and say, "I don't want to honor God in His Sabbath commandment". As opposed to implying it is OK to reject God's commandments as long as we do it in Christ's Name.

Assumes that which is to be demonstrated, and could account for inherent misunderstanding.

 

[Clare73]

All that and yet still not one scripture showing Jesus is the Sabbath, a day or a commandment, just lots of scriptures that does not match your commentary and sadly a lot of adding to God's Word. God said the Sabbath is a day, the seventh day Exodus 20:10 even in Hebrews 4:4 which is a direct reference to the 4th commandment Exodus 20:8-11 and Creation Genesis 2:1-3. Making Jesus into one of His commandments where instead of us following His commandment and His written and spoken Word, Jesus instead does something for us, sounds like a similar teaching from the garden that if Adam and Eve were to eat from the tree of knowledge they would not surely die, the exact opposite of what Jesus said. We have free will and can do and believe what we want and could creatively do this to all of His commandments, but God said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 for good reason. Our word won’t save us, only following God’s Holy and unchangeable Word can. Guess we will have to agree to disagree and it will get sorted out soon enough.

For eyes that can see. . .regarding NT, Jesus, gospel, grace, salvation, etc.

Heb 4:9-11 shows that while Canaan physical rest was no longer available (Heb 4:3),
there still remained a spiritual Sabbath-rest in God for those NT Hebrews,
which was not a rest from physical works, but a rest from spiritual works to earn salvation,
because God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY (Heb 4:6-7),
which is not rest in Canaan whose doors are closed (Heb 4:3),
but is the full-time Sabbath-rest of God, in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, where the believer rests full-time from his own spiritual works to save, and rests in Christ's work which has saved.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

For eyes that can see:

Heb 4:9-11 shows that while Canaan physical rest was no longer available (Heb 4:3),
there still remained a spiritual Sabbath-rest in God for those NT Hebrews,

Where does it say there is only a spiritual Sabbath rest and ignore the commandment to rest from our works and labors on the seventh day. You are adding the word “spiritual” its not in the Text. We don’t receive spiritual rest by profaning God’s holy Sabbath day or disobeying God, which is really the whole point to this passage.

Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

The Greek word for rest here literally means Sabbath keeping. The Sabbath is a commandment of God - was kept by God’s faithful followers in the NT according to the commandment Luke 23:56

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

God said the Sabbath is on the seventh day Exodus 20:10
Same as what Hebrews 4:4 says which is a direct reference to the Sabbath commandment

Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

God rested on the seventh day which we are called to follow Him

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

We do not enter into God’s spiritual rest by being disobedient to Him, the Israelites thought they could do their own thing too and it didn’t work out for them which is why we are called not to follow their same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11

And what did they disobey? They profaned God’s holy Sabbath Eze 20:13 Eze 20:21

I don’t think its wise to follow their same path of disobedience and expect a different result.

which was not a rest from physical works, but a rest from spiritual works to earn salvation,

Your words not what is in God’s holy Word.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

because God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY (Heb 4:6-7),

Let’s bring in the context…… The Text says “Today” if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts as in rebellion, its a direct quote from David

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

Psalms 95: 7 Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the [c]rebellion,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness

“Today” we are in our trial and “Today” if we hear His voice we should not harden our hearts in rebellion to God either.

which is not rest in Canaan whose doors are closed (Heb 4:3),

For the Isralites who did not enter due to their disobedience which scripture says they profaned the Sabbath Heb 4:6 Eze 20:21 Eze 20:13

We are told not to follow their same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11 so there would be no point for us not to follow their same path of disobedience if the doors were closed for us. I believe this is an illustration of what will happen to us if we follow their same path of disobedience.

but is the full-time Sabbath-rest of God, in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, where the believer rests full-time from his own spiritual works to save, and rests in Christ's work which has saved.

Again your words, not God’s.

 

[Studyman]

Since medicine / medical protocol/ legally given in the usa is the biggest cause of death in the usa for decades now,
refusing to take medicine might be life-saving, and in any case NOT a "work" of yours, no.

Did you not understand I was talking about the prescription given man by God?

When they get to force you to take medicine, or even just coerce/persuade you to, without full informed consent (including dangers and options),
that is bad enough.

Do you really believe I was talking in such worldly, fleshy terms?

Then - trusting men, taking unproven medicine, taking medicine proven to be harmful even, is MORE of a work (of the flesh)
than refusing to take it , right ?

Was I not speaking about the Chief Physician, the One True God?

And trusting the flesh(or the devil) , God says, is wrong, and He curses those who trust the flesh(man) .... this has been true ever since the garden of eden !

Is that what my post represented to you, that I was promoting that men trust in the prescription of the flesh, and not from God?

It seems you have completely misunderstood my post. It must by my fault, so let me post it again, and try and be more clear.

 

[Studyman]

I think that is simply disobedience, sin, transgression - and perhaps involves also the sin that leads to death (i.e. very vital, not unimportant).
==========================
Scripture dies does describe many , or few, conditions that are either true or not true,
and the results.
So few appear to be saved, but rejoice if and when they are seen.
Be skeptical instead of those who boast that they are saved, but don't appear to be!

============================================
Rejecting things is not a work in itself.
Rejecting to drive a vehicle off a bridge is not a work!

But wouldn't refusing to take medicine (Instruction from God) prescribed to me, (By God through His Holy scriptures) for what ails me, (Fleshy thoughts, lusts and rebellion within my heart) be considered a "work" of mine? And on the death bed, (Judgment day) would I be able to blame the Physician (God) who prescribed to me, ( doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness) because he (God) didn't Force me to take the medicine? (His Instruction)

I think about the Christ's Words regarding the Pharisees who rejected God's Prescriptions. (God's instruction in Righteousness)

Matt. 23: 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

I think about, "And if those who take their prescribed medicine "Scarcely be saved", what shall be the fate of those who refuse to take the prescribed medicine at all?

I was paraphrasing for the analogy I used.

1 Peter 4: 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Please forgive my inability to express myself in an understandable way.

 

[Clare73]

Where does it say there is only a spiritual Sabbath rest and ignore the commandment to rest on the seventh day. You are adding the word “spiritual” its not in the Text.

Where does it say God is Trinity.
You are adding the word "Trinity," it's not in the text.

So let's take a look at Heb 3:7-4:13 in the context of the whole letter.
There are several issues to be resolved in correctly understanding the letter to the Hebrew Christians:

1) One of the issues of the NT Hebrew Christians is unbelief. . .how can that be?
2) Another issue is the Sabbath. . .why would Hebrews need warning about the Sabbath?
3) And what does Canaan have to do with NT Hebrews and the Sabbath?

These issues must be addressed in a correct explanation of Hebrews 3:7-4:13.
So I'll do a walk-through of Heb 3:7-4:13 of the text with my explanatory comments in black text in the parentheses.
Feel free to textually demonstrate any disagreement.

Hebrews 3:7-19: People failed to believe in the past.

v.6 - we are God's people (house--Ex 2:19; 1Pe 2:5) if we persevere. Failure to persevere reveals that we were not born again, not God's people (1Jn 2:19).

(7) So as the Holy Spirit says: (speaks in the Word of God in Ps 95:7-11)
"Today, (as distinct from OT Canaan), if you hear his voice (the call of Christ--v.6, in the gospel message of the psalmist warning Israel in Ps 95:8, based on the example of Israel's rebellion (apostasy) at Meriba in Ex 17:7,
(8) do not harden your hearts (refuse to believe)
as you did in the rebellion (refusal to enter Canaan),
during the time of testing (their testing God) in the desert,
(9) where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did (exiled Israel in the wilderness).
(10)That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
(11) So I declared an oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' " (God's own rest)
(12) See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God (warning against apostasy--"turns away from the living God").
13) But encourage one another as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. ("Today" is still the day of grace and opportunity to enter, but it has an expiration date.)
14) We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first (Hebrews share in salvation-rest of Christ if they persevere to the end, do not drop out/fall away, revealing that they actually were born again (not still-born), and are in Christ).

[NB: There is an issue of not holding firmly, of turning way (rebellion, apostasy), of unbelief by the NT Hebrews that the writer is addressing. They were considering a return to their OT religion, perhaps because of persecution by their fellow Hebrews, or threats of their families to disinherit them, or both, the reason can only be conjecture.

This passage (3:7-4:13) is actually the second of five warnings in the letter:
1) 2:1-4 - do not fail to hear the gospel,
2) 3:7-4:13 - do not fail to believe,
3) 5:11-6:12 - do not fall away (apostasy),
4) 10:19-39 - do not lapse back,
5) 12:14-29 - do not refuse God.]

(15) As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice (the call of Christ--v.14 in the gospel message, as it says/speaks in the Word of God in Ps 95:7-8),
do not harden your hearts (in unbelief)
as you did in the rebellion." (and refuse to enter into Christ's salvation by returning to Judaism)
(16) Who were they who heard and rebelled? (refusing to enter Canaan) Were they not all that Moses led out of Egypt? (those who failed to enter Canaan (Nu 14:1-4) were the ones who had heard God's promise regarding the land and refused to believe, v.19, which is rebellion),
(17) And with whom was he angry for 40 years? Was it not with those who sinned (rebelled), whose bodies fell in the desert? (sin)
(18) And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? (and disobedience)
(19) So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief (therefore, God in his anger closed the doors of Canaan in the face of that whole generation).

Hebrews 4:1-10: Do not fail to believe again.

1) Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands (Today, if you hear his voice--in the gospel--Mt 11:28-29, God's salvation rest is still available),
let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it (by returning to your OT religion and failing to enter into God's NT salvation rest).
2) For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did (Gal 3:8; sacrifices and ceremonies); but the message they heard was of no value to them because they did not combine it with faith.
3) Now we who have believed enter that rest (God's NT salvation rest), just as God has said,
"So I declared an oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "
And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.
4) For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work" (God's Sabbath-rest is full time, not just one day a week).
5) And again, in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest." (God's own full-time Sabbath-rest)
6) It still remains that some will enter this rest ("Today. . .") and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in (to the full-time rest from their enemies in Canaan, Dt 12:10) because of their disobedience.
7)Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today (Ps 95:7), when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice (in the gospel)
do not harden your hearts."(and fail to enter God's own full-time Sabbath rest in his NT salvation-rest)
8) For if Joshua had given them rest (in the promised rest of Canaan, a prefigure of God's NT salvation rest), God would not have spoken later about another day.
9) There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God;
10) for anyone who enters God's rest (which is full-time) also rests (full-time) from his own work (to save), just as God did from his.

Hebrews 4:11-13: Warning

11) Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest (God's salvation rest), so that no one will fall (from faith, salvation) by following their example of disobedience.
12) For the (judging) Word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
13) Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account." (Take heed of the God with whom we have to do.)

Jesus' NT full-time salvation rest from our own works to save is the fulfillment of God's own ("my rest") full-time Sabbath rest for his people.

The Sabbath was not given for God, it was given for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Hebrews 10:25 - Christians are not to forsake assembling together for the Lord's Supper (Acts 2:42).

 

[Studyman]

No worries (I hope). The ways we are taught by example and by teachers (false teachers) most of all of our lives make everything much more difficult ....

Agreed, My analogy would have been better understood 50 years ago. Probably not so wise using the example of the greatest drug dealers this world has ever seen.

LOL, No worries