Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[Divide]

Maybe if every fundamentalist Christian stopped being paranoid about the presence of "the anti-christ" in the government and/or in society we'd all be able to give each other some more civil breathing room.................................................................................... and be able to put our guns in the closet and share some bread instead with our neighbors.

What do Christians have to be paranoid about? They have Almighty God on their side and most of us are armed to the teeth. So there isnt paranoia, that's what happens when you get attacked and you dont have any guns, that would bring on paranoia maybe.

It is a nice thought that it may be nice to put the guns away and break break together instead! I agree with the sentiment. But those unbelieving ones jump in and say, I'm not hungry now because you own a a weapon! SO what shall we do in this situation? Hold our tounges and be silent which would give them the satisfaction of dominating the thread with anti gun rhetoric. I will stand up and say something. I will admit I am a gun owner. Which is more than I can say about our gun owning anti friends here who wont admit it.

 

[FireDragon76]

Just trying to understand this as it is pretty FAR .... FAR out there.
So according to you, people training to defend themselves are suffering (soul damage)

We need to examine ourselves to see if we are giving in to a spirit of fear, or we are trusting in God's ways, which are based on peace, gentleness, patience, humility, all the things that sinful humans dominated by their flesh rebel against.

As the Reformed clergyman and social reformer Abraham Muste put it, "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way". This is the ethic that many serious Christians live by.

Wow .... who would have known .... I wonder does that also disqualify them from salvation ... bowl of porridge per say......

We demonstrate our faith by our fruits.

I guess your realize that would include every person that has ever been in the Military, any LEO, Martial Artist, Boxer, Wrestler, Hunter anyone who has ever handled a firearm or knife etc. etc. etc.

In the early Church, anyone who shed blood wasn't allowed into the congregation to receive the sacred mysteries without a period of repentance, including penances to help them ammend their life. This only changed in later centuries where Christianity accommodated itself to imperial power.

You are saying currently, and throughout history Millions and Millions and Millions are not getting into heaven ..... that is some news!

Only by the grace of God. However, God's grace transforms us into the likeness of Christ day by day.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes I do. I try anyway. It's really up to the stranger. Do they approach me asking for help, or do they approach my with guns drawn? Makes a big difference. As long as thier not shooting at me I will help them.

Yes, on a practical level, that makes sense. But it only makes sense if one is defending himself and family against criminals, with the operative word being "defense" rather than offense.

The problem is we have a number of nationalist type folks who "claim" to be Christian but harbor guns along with very strong notions of what looks to me like semblances of insurrection, and this goes way beyond the practical idea of simply defending one's family and self against criminals.

So, in sum, that kind of "nationalist" thinking in conjunction with guns needs to be dropped-kicked into the sewer where it belongs.

 

[YorkieGal]

Yes, on a practical level, that makes sense. But it only makes sense if one is defending himself and family against criminals, with the operative word being "defense" rather than offense.

The problem is we have a number of nationalist type folks who "claim" to be Christian but harbor guns along with very strong notions of what looks to me like semblances of insurrection, and this goes way beyond the practical idea of simply defending one's family and self against criminals.

So, in sum, that kind of "nationalist" thinking in conjunction with guns needs to be dropped-kicked into the sewer where it belongs.

Conflating religion and 2A = you need to touch grass and talk to people instead of letting MSM tell you how to think about others

People here are TELLING you what they believe and why but you revert to a narrative that is false as a way to justify a brainwashed position.

Might I invite you to the realm of reality where you can join us as Christians who also happen to be Americans.

 

[FireDragon76]

Comon everyone, this is a lot bigger than self defense or guns ..... we are talking about (soul damage) that has condemned 75% of people that have ever lived on the earth to eternal damnation, this is serious stuff..........

I actually am a quasi-universalist. However, I believe most will have to undergo purgation to enter eternity. We won't get out till we pay the last penny, as Jesus said.

At any rate, I would rather spend my ill-gotten mammon wisely in this life, because I have found that makes a person infinitely happier than giving in to a fleshly or carnal mind. It is a joy that no one can take from you, and that is worth far more than any earthly good.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What do Christians have to be paranoid about? They have Almighty God on their side and most of us are armed to the teeth. So there isnt paranoia, that's what happens when you get attacked and you dont have any guns, that would bring on paranoia maybe.

It is a nice thought that it may be nice to put the guns away and break break together instead! I agree with the sentiment. But those unbelieving ones jump in and say, I'm not hungry now because you own a a weapon! SO what shall we do in this situation? Hold our tounges and be silent which would give them the satisfaction of dominating the thread with anti gun rhetoric. I will stand up and say something. I will admit I am a gun owner. Which is more than I can say about our gun owning anti friends here who wont admit it.

Well, I have similar critiques for our Ultra-Liberal, even Marxist leaning, fellow Americans. And just like the fact that some folks on the Right won't like what I have to say in relations to their gun usage ideology, I know there are folks on the Left who won't like what I have to say about their collectivist legal constraints as well, even where guns are concerned.

Like I said earlier above, I'm neither Left nor Right and I tend to disambiguate extreme thinking wherever I find it, on any side.

So, for those who simply want to own a gun, I'd say, "Have one! Have two if you want." But just work hard on being mindful as a Christian peacemaker and try to be a sympathetic fellow American above all else. I'm pretty sure that is what Jesus would want at the very least.

 

[Divide]

At any rate, I would rather spend my ill-gotten mammon wisely in this life, because I have found that makes a person infinitely happier than giving in to a fleshly or carnal mind. It is a joy that no one can take from you, and that is worth far more than any earthly good.

Why do you call your money ill gotten mammon? Do you run drugs for MS13 or something? I am not understanding your choice of words that you used. ...Ill gotten Mammon...

It doesnt make sense in your position. Why do you have ill gotten gains? A Christian man who wont even own a gun but does have some ill gotten gains. Does that make sense to you?

 

[FireDragon76]

Might I invite you to the realm of reality where you can join us as Christians who also happen to be Americans.

That's the whole problem, some people conflate what is "American" with what is "Christian".

Like I said elsewhere, what passes for Christianity in the US is really more wishful thinking or shallow moralism, than serious spirituality.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Conflating religion and 2A = you need to touch grass and talk to people instead of letting MSM tell you how to think about others

What's MSM? I'm not familiar with that acronym.

People here are TELLING you what they believe and why but you revert to a narrative that is false as a way to justify a brainwashed position.

Sister, I get the impression that you may not know what my "narrative" is. What is it that you think I'm saying? I have to ask because I think you might not have pegged me in the right way.

Might I invite you to the realm of reality where you can join us as Christians who also happen to be Americans.

Oh, I'm ALL ABOUT Reality! What aspects of Reality as it currently is in our American life do you think I'm missing and failed to cover in my educational experiences?

 

[YorkieGal]

That's the whole problem, some people conflate what is "American" with what is "Christian".

Like I said elsewhere, what passes for Christianity in the US is really more wishful thinking or shallow moralism, than serious spirituality.

'Some people'. According to whom? What people? How many are some? 2 people out of 9 billion? 6 out of 100? 1 out of the 1 you were told about?

Don't let people tell you how and what to think about other people.

Media and social media is poison. You have a forum where you have Christian, American gun owners telling you what we believe, why etc but it keeps going back to hypothetical 'some people' that no one in real life knows. If they do, it would be ONE person, not a group, not a movement..it's just not a thing.

Come hang out with me and mine and then you can go and tell the world about the alternate view of 'some' people who also happen to be real.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why do you call your money ill gotten mammon?

It's not money, but the mammon that Jesus spoke of through his parables (Luke 16).

Do you really know the Bible as well as you think you do? Everything I am saying is based on the Bible.

Do you run drugs for MS13 or something? I am not understanding your choice of words that you used. ...Ill gotten Mammon...

Ill gotten mammon is the mercy and grace God has shown us through our creation and preservation, despite our unworthiness. We are to use those gifts for God's glory and the benefit of our neighbor. It is difficult for me to reconcile a fearful, mistrustful mindset of needing to own weapons and prepare for violence, with loving God or my neighbor. At the very least, it seems foolish to me.

 

[YorkieGal]

What's MSM? I'm not familiar with that acronym.

Sister, I get the impression that you may not know what my "narrative" is. What is it that you think I'm saying? I have to ask because I think you might not have pegged me in the right way.


Oh, I'm ALL ABOUT Reality! What aspects of Reality as it currently is in our American life do you think I'm missing and failed to cover in my educational experiences?

Your comment about owning one or two guns but working on being an emphatic Christian is good but it fails to acknowledge that that's what we're already doing.

Why is it anyone thinks differently?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Your comment about owning one or two guns but working on being an emphatic Christian is good but it fails to acknowledge that that's what we're already doing.

Why is it anyone thinks differently?

More than likely, if we were to have a really in-depth talk, we'd find that we have more in common that what it seems from a mere first impression.

The only thing I'm attempting to do is accentuate the fact that the "gun-debate" is a multi-faceted, legally--but also spiritually--nuanced discussion.

I'm sure that someone such as yourself is already quite aware of the importance of being empathic and sympathetic to other Americans as we all attempt to sort out the gun issue.

 

[Postvieww]

We need to examine ourselves to see if we are giving in to a spirit of fear, or we are trusting in God's ways, which are based on peace, gentleness, patience, humility, all the things that sinful humans dominated by their flesh rebel against.

Yes peace and love are the best way but sometimes that is not possible!

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I believe "provide" in the above passage also means safety and protection.

 

[YorkieGal]

Maybe if every fundamentalist Christian stopped being paranoid about the presence of "the anti-christ" in the government and/or in society we'd all be able to give each other some more civil breathing room.................................................................................... and be able to put our guns in the closet and share some bread instead with our neighbors.

This is the comment that I found out of sync with your previous comments. I don't know any fundamentalist Christians who carry a gun thinking Satan is following them around from the White House or 'paranoid' but cautious, rather, which has never been any different.

More than likely, if we were to have a really in-depth talk, we'd find that we have more in common that what it seems from a mere first impression.

The only thing I'm attempting to do is accentuate the fact that the "gun-debate" is a multi-faceted, legally--but also spiritually--nuanced discussion.

I'm sure that someone such as yourself is already quite aware of the importance of being empathic and sympathetic to other Americans as we all attempt to sort out the gun issue.

Yes, comment above aside, I believe we are aligned in a majority of ways.

If I knew any Christians who thought guns were their religion, I'd intercede as a Christian, to remind them of what Christianity meant.

As it stands, I have never met one individual who conflates the two despite what we are told by the main stream media (MSM)

 

[FireDragon76]

I believe "provide" in the above passage also means safety and protection.

I don't agree. That's reading alot of assumptions into the text that aren't warranted, given the overall context of the passage.

In the American context, "safety and protection" was used as a pretext to commit genocide against Native Americans, oppress African-Americans, and objectify and infantilize women. So this isn't an unproblematic notion. "Safety and protection" has always been what people use to justify violence and aggression.

At any rate, it takes a lot of lack of imagination to think the only way to respond to potential violence is with more violence.

 

[Derf]

Sister, I get the impression that you may not know what my "narrative" is.

See, it isn't just I.

 

[dogs4thewin]

We have 575 reasons not to allow unfettered access to military grade guns. We do not send our kids to school wondering if they'll come back alive.

Except that even the guns that are military grade usually are not they make civilian versions that do not have burst mode. Additionally bump stocks were banned a few years ago. How much good that actually did I do not know, but the point is that true "military grade machine guns or autmadtic weapons are not in civilian hands.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This is the comment that I found out of sync with your previous comments. I don't know any fundamentalist Christians who carry a gun thinking Satan is following them around from the White House or 'paranoid' but cautious, rather, which has never been any different.

Well, where I live, encountering the presence of paranoid fundamentalist Christians is a daily occurence. And by "paranoid" I mean that they somehow think they can actually ward off "the Anti-Christ" with guns, and their claims about simply having guns for the sake of personal defense is all a pretense to somehow carnally "fighting the good fight."

I appraise all that sort of ideology and mindset as incongruous with a claim to having integrity with the Christian faith that they say they have.

Yes, comment above aside, I believe we are aligned in a majority of ways.

Yes. On the important elements, I imagine we are aligned. And on top of that, I'm always willing to listen to others and keep my ears open. There's always something for me to learn.

If I knew any Christians who thought guns were their religion, I'd intercede as a Christian, to remind them of what Christianity meant.

You sound like a sister who is wise in her ways, then.

As it stands, I have never met one individual who conflates the two despite what we are told by the main stream media (MSM)

I very well understand your concern about the MSM. You're right. It all too often confers a bit of ideological poison to all who imbibe its constant spew. Nevertheless, I do have a few differences as well with a number of the more Right Leaning "Christian" political groups, Wall-Builders being one of them.

With that said, I sometimes also mosey on over and take a peek at the other side of the political spectrum, not always liking what I find there, and while I'm willing to listen to a few minor Marxist style social gripes by a social theorist here or there for further philosophical reflection, I in no short order identify myself as being firmly Anti-Communist! Needless to say, I don't put up with any ideological garbage from the Ultra-Left either ... they're not going to yank my strings!

So, as far as guns go, I'm all for the idea that any responsible, non-criminal fellow American should be able to legally own a gun and use it for hunting for food or for personal/family defense. We've always done so.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It's not convoluted. It's very simple if you understand the way of Jesus and the saints.



I don't own any guns. I don't see how that is relevant.



It means that human beings, as spiritual creatures having human experiences, should be preparing ourselves for eternity, and not fearful of anything in this life to the point that we trade the goods of this world, which are here today and gone tomorrow, for the treasures of Heaven. As Jesus said, do not fear those who can kill the body, fear the one who can cast both body and soul into Hell.

Let me asks you this (There is nothing wrong with choosing not to own guns though I would if my eyes/ motor skills would allow it and very much support people who do, but beyond that let me asks you two questions

One if you were in danger would you call people with guns (police) to save your behind and two suppose you were either with someone who carried or were in public and someone happened to be carrying when someone threatened the whole place would you be mad or thankful if that person (police or civilian) stopped the threat with a firearm?