Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[2PhiloVoid]

What question?

Also,.......I didnt bring politics into it. I did respond when another poster brought up politics. Do you remeber who that was? And I think that since you have taken an antigun stance in this thread that it's a good bet that you're a liberal. I don't know if you are ultra liberal or not. You don't really come across as an ultra liberal. But you do come across as a Liberal

Uh ............. no, I don't take an anti-gun stance. And I don't really consider myself to be "Liberal." I'm rather out of the box and don't fit into either the Left or the Right.

But whatever it all amounts to, I do take a pro-humanitarian stance, however. I would assume that as a fellow Christian, you do too.

 

[Divide]

What the heck is an assault weapon? It does not work by itself and civilian versions do not have the burst where it shoots three at a time.

Yeah but some of those new Binanry triggers are sweet! The reason I havent bought one yet is that they come with a 4 to 4.5 LB trigger pull, but I already installed a two stage match grade trigger that has about a 3 LB trigger pull. So I doubt I'll get a binary trigger.

A gallon of gasoline would have more burst fire than a can of zippo lighter fluis. So gasoline must be an Assault weapon also. I dunno how many people have been burned to death but I've heard about it too many times. So knowing the criminal mind somewhat it seems like it dont matter if they take guns away or not. People will still kill. People will still fight.

This just in...the last of personal held weapons was collected today, but the fighting has not ceased. It wasnt the guns fault after all, lol.

 

[Divide]

I've experienced plenty of scary things. That's no reason for me to seek to become scary in turn.

That's a nice sentiment but the largest majority of armed criminals are youngsters with next to no experience. If you can become scary to them (yes, in disuise of your true self, lol) then most of the time they will run away. 99% of the time they run away.

I made that home invader get scared away with one single warning shot. I wasn't scared. I had a 19911 45 pistol what was there to be scared of. Did I scare him? You bet I did and scaring him in trying not to have to be forced to shoot him was a means to an end. I had enough presence of mind to not shoot the guy. All because I was willing to turn scary on him. I think it was a good deal to do that. So I find no fault in using mutual assurd destruction against adversaries in the hope that they are scared boys and not some terrorists from trashcanastan or somewhere who dont care or scare.

 

[Divide]

Uh ............. no, I don't take an anti-gun stance. And I don't really consider myself to be "Liberal." I'm rather out of the box and don't fit into either the Left or the Right.

But whatever it all amounts to, I do take a pro-humanitarian stance, however. I would assume that as a fellow Christian, you do too.

Is that right? I'm sorry Brother. Perhaps I misunderstood your humanitarianism for an anti gun stance since this is the gun rights debate thread. Sorry about that. I just need to get to know you better. But I can see what your saying and I applaud your restaint in not delving into Liberalism at all or too much, lol!

 

[Divide]

Yeah, and just any idiot can carry a gun now. We've thrown responsibility out the window. As you indicated, not everyone is growing up learning responsible gun use. We have become irresponsible as citizens. As a whole we are responsible. Imfor much stricter regulations include a national registry and much more involved training. It should be harder than getting a driver's license since it's not as necessary in day to day living.

We dont need a national gun registry. That would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. If they make a national gun registry, I will start a gun collection of used firearms which are not n the registry. Just for my own satisfaction and Huh! My weapons are in my control.

Gun Control is being able to hit your target, that's all it means. I accept my personal responsibility that comes with the owning and carrying of weapons. The Constitution did not give the right to bear arms. That right was conferred upon all men on earth. The American Constituion has nothing to do with my gun rights. It is a document which outlines the limits that the Government can exercise control over. Shall not be infringed was a statement to them!

I believe that men can lose their right to bear arms. This happens when make poor choices and committ a crime against the public at large and get sent to prison for it. No guns then BuckWheat! If a prisoner can be trusted enough to be released into the public again then he should be allowed to defend himself again upon his release. They shouldnt be allowed to regulate the person who has done his time and paid the price for his crime. But if he gets back into crime with a gun again, then lock him up forever because he cant be trusted. Or maybe a three strikes and your out rule?

 

[Divide]

Most people with guns do not want to kill anyone; in fact there are case where a good guy with a gun dies because he waits too long.

It's terrible when a man freezes up from indecision. It used to be the survival reactions are flight or fight. But in reality I think there are, Fight, Flight or Freeze. I know that freezing up is not really a survival response but a response to danger and the person has perhaps never thought through it how to respond to a sudden emergency, so he freezes?

 

[Divide]

But whatever it all amounts to, I do take a pro-humanitarian stance, however. I would assume that as a fellow Christian, you do too.

Yes I do. I try anyway. It's really up to the stranger. Do they approach me asking for help, or do they approach my with guns drawn? Makes a big difference. As long as thier not shooting at me I will help them.

 

[Divide]

oh my gosh

Now that is funny, it is unbelievable what they will come up with.

I was hoping he would tell us exactly what damage is done to the soul through the ownership of weapons. I just checked on my AR and it wasnt hurting anybody. I dont think it has moved since I put it away. And it certainly does not talk to me, Lol!

I have a hammer laying on the tool bench downstairs. That hammer could easily kill someone. But it's never asked me too. But if it did I know how to deal with that kind of stuff. The name above all names. I would take authority and command the spirit leave in the name of Jesus. It wouldnt take long. Us Christians have more authority over evil spirits than they may realize.

Luke 10:19

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you..../KJV

All the power of the enemy...Hmmm,

Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.../KJV

So there you have that, over all the power of the enemy and the enemy is evil spirits which harass tempt and oppress people into doing bad things. So if they are an active threat then I may have to shoot them?

I havent had to shoot them yet, thank God! But it wasnt because I froze, it was because I had restraint! Some evil spirit wanted me to shoot that person who attempted to do a home invasion of me. But the grace of God was with me so I didn't have to shoot (him!)
I know they frown on warning shots but it worked for me, Twice.

I did get get pretty good laugh out of that post, lol. More people should take a closer look at the bigger picture here though. There's more to it than gunfighting. It is a strong faith in God and not a misplaced confidence in weaponry.

Yeah I still have a gun or three (Lol) and maybe they will come in handy defending innocents. I aint scared if they kill me. All that would do is send me to be with the Lord Jesus sooner! To die is to gain. But make no mistake, if one has misplaced his confidence of survival to guns it will be futile for that person. It doesnt mean that weapons will not be useful, just that we keep our confidence in the Lord first.

I bet they think that's wacky, Lol!

 

[FireDragon76]

If that's what you believe, try learning from those who actually know better:

How do they know better? They are gun enthusiasts that have their own perspective. However, that doesn't make their perspective privileged.

Guns were instrumental in forming our country when the government at the time became lawless. The 2nd amendment says NOTHING about hunting. Its purpose is to allow the citizenry to fight off a tyrannical government that the articles of the constitution aren't able to regulate sufficiently.

There's nothing remotely Christian about that perspective, either. This is a perfect example of the infiltration of a secular, nationalist ideology into religion.

If we as Christians are supposed to follow the righteous laws of whatever country we are in, then we should also support the laws that suppress the evil of said government.

Follow the law, but only when we deem it good? That isn't what Paul says about obeying rulers.

You will find no justification in the New Testament for insurrection, even against a government deemed evil. Quite the contrary.

 

[FireDragon76]

I was hoping he would tell us exactly what damage is done to the soul through the ownership of weapons. I just checked on my AR and it wasnt hurting anybody. I dont think it has moved since I put it away. And it certainly does not talk to me, Lol!

The potential damage done to the soul is through familiarity with violence, instead of peace and gentleness. All the things the Lord Jesus Christ said make one blessed. It is flirting with the neglect of ones inheritance as a child of God for a bowl of porridge under the guise of the illusion of control and power.

I have a hammer laying on the tool bench downstairs. That hammer could easily kill someone.

Except the hammer wasn't designed to kill anyone.

 

[FenderTL5]

The 2nd amendment.. purpose is to allow the citizenry to fight off a tyrannical government that the articles of the constitution aren't able to regulate sufficiently.

That isn't true. The 2nd Amendment was created after the Continental Army was dismissed and the US did NOT have a standing army with many in the congress opposed having an army.
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to arm a citizen militia in lieu of establishing a standing army. It says so right there in the text, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State.."
It was not designed to oppose the government, quite the opposite. It was designed for the security of the new government.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The potential damage done to the soul is through familiarity with violence, instead of peace and gentleness. All the things the Lord Jesus Christ said make one blessed. It is flirting with the neglect of ones inheritance as a child of God for a bowl of porridge under the guise of the illusion of control and power.



Except the hammer wasn't designed to kill anyone.

In this fallen world violence is all some people understand. Sometimes the only way to peace is through violence.

 

[Aussie Pete]

It’s nice to know you have honorable criminals that only prey on other criminals with guns. Maybe our criminals in the USA could learn from your honorable criminals to be more considerate and not search out gun free zones and helpless unarmed citizens.

We have 575 reasons not to allow unfettered access to military grade guns. We do not send our kids to school wondering if they'll come back alive.

 

[Derf]

That isn't true. The 2nd Amendment was created after the Continental Army was dismissed and the US did NOT have a standing army with many in the congress opposed having an army.
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to arm a citizen militia in lieu of establishing a standing army. It says so right there in the text, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State.."
It was not designed to oppose the government, quite the opposite. It was designed for the security of the new government.

What about that free state needs protecting? The following (with my bolding) is from Historical Background of the Second Amendment

In The Federalist, James Madison argued that “the State governments, with the people on their side,” would be more than adequate to counterbalance a federally controlled “regular army,” even one “fully equal to the resources of the country.” 13 In Madison’s view, “the advantage of being armed,” together with “the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.” 14 Nevertheless, several states considered or proposed to the First Congress constitutional amendments that would explicitly protect arms-bearing rights, in various formulations.15​

In other words, the need for the second amendment, in some people's eyes, was that the constitution did not adequately spell out that "state governments with people on their side would be more than adequate to counterbalance a federally controlled regular army." A standing army was feared BECAUSE it represented a power of the federal government over the state governments.

 

[Derf]

How do they know better? They are gun enthusiasts that have their own perspective. However, that doesn't make their perspective privileged.



There's nothing remotely Christian about that perspective, either. This is a perfect example of the infiltration of a secular, nationalist ideology into religion.

A nationalist ideology is one where we stand up militarily against our nation?

Follow the law, but only when we deem it good? That isn't what Paul says about obeying rulers.

We at least know we should obey God rather than men, right (Not Paul, but Peter and the other apostles, Acts 5:29)? Isn't that what Jesus defined as "good" (No one is good except God, Luke 18:19). So, if the government commands you to kill a Jew, just because he's a Jew, was Paul in favor of obeying that law?

You will find no justification in the New Testament for insurrection, even against a government deemed evil. Quite the contrary.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "insurrection". If a state were to call upon a Christian to fight against the federal government, would that be insurrection or not? If you refuse the call, would you be obedient or disobedient to the "government"?

You might be interested in reading about the doctrine of the lesser magistrates. You can download it here:

https://ia902309.us.archive.org/29/items/aidshiv/Intelligence/Intelligence%20-%20The%20Doctrine%20of%20the%20Lesser%20Magistrates.pdf

Here's the subtitle:
A PROPER RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY AND A REPUDIATION OF UNLIMITED OBEDIENCE TO CIVIL GOVERNMENT

If you read a little bit of it, you will see that it is written from a Christian perspective, even if you might not agree with that perspective.

 

[YorkieGal]

There's nothing remotely Christian about that perspective, either. This is a perfect example of the infiltration of a secular, nationalist ideology into religion.

The Geneva Bible even says when dealing with tyrants, "disobedience was lawful". Disobedience to tyrants was obedience to God.

The History of the Geneva Bible

We have set out to create a beautiful, functional, modernized version of the Geneva Bible, the English Bible translated in Geneva under the direction of John Calvin in 1560. The History Surprisingly, although this is one of the most important historical translations of the Bible into English...

modernizedgenevabible.com

 

[Divide]

The potential damage done to the soul is through familiarity with violence, instead of peace and gentleness. All the things the Lord Jesus Christ said make one blessed. It is flirting with the neglect of ones inheritance as a child of God for a bowl of porridge under the guise of the illusion of control and power.

That's quite the convoluted stairway you went up there. But you didnt explain anything.

Do you think that you will ever answer my question of do you own any guns? You have clearly been ignoring that question.

" It is flirting with the neglect of ones inheritance as a child of God for a bowl of porridge under the guise of the illusion of control and power."

What does that even mean? Is my AR a bowl of porrige now? under the guise of what illusion? Are you trying to say that I seek control and power through my AR? The philosopher isnt making sense!

 

[Divide]

The potential damage done to the soul is through familiarity with violence, instead of peace and gentleness. All the things the Lord Jesus Christ said make one blessed. It is flirting with the neglect of ones inheritance as a child of God for a bowl of porridge under the guise of the illusion of control and power.



Except the hammer wasn't designed to kill anyone.

In a way that you will not answer my queston, do you own a gun has been answered by the very silence of you not addressing it. Of course you own a gun but you dont want to admit it. If you realy didnt own a gun then you would have shouted the answer of No! But you did not, you left it alone instead. So you have some conscience...and a gun! I can't fault that being a gun owner.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Maybe if every fundamentalist Christian stopped being paranoid about the presence of "the anti-christ" in the government and/or in society we'd all be able to give each other some more civil breathing room.................................................................................... and be able to put our guns in the closet and share some bread instead with our neighbors.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's quite the convoluted stairway you went up there. But you didnt explain anything.

It's not convoluted. It's very simple if you understand the way of Jesus and the saints.

Do you think that you will ever answer my question of do you own any guns? You have clearly been ignoring that question.

I don't own any guns. I don't see how that is relevant.

" It is flirting with the neglect of ones inheritance as a child of God for a bowl of porridge under the guise of the illusion of control and power."

What does that even mean? Is my AR a bowl of porrige now? under the guise of what illusion? Are you trying to say that I seek control and power through my AR? The philosopher isnt making sense!

It means that human beings, as spiritual creatures having human experiences, should be preparing ourselves for eternity, and not fearful of anything in this life to the point that we trade the goods of this world, which are here today and gone tomorrow, for the treasures of Heaven. As Jesus said, do not fear those who can kill the body, fear the one who can cast both body and soul into Hell.