Elon Musk is Evil

[YorkieGal]

Musk tells Sunak AI will eventually mean no one needs to have a job

In conversation with the Prime Minister, the tech billionaire compared AI to a 'magic genie' that would bring a time when 'no job is needed'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I truly believe he is a Trojan horse who is no friend to humanity.

He talks about 'universal high income' that is 'good for education' but states that none of humanity will ever need to work again as AI will do everything. What, then, is the purpose of this 'education'?

He speaks with both sides of his mouth and I believe he is evil.

 

[FireDragon76]

Musk tells Sunak AI will eventually mean no one needs to have a job

In conversation with the Prime Minister, the tech billionaire compared AI to a 'magic genie' that would bring a time when 'no job is needed'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I truly believe he is a Trojan horse who is no friend to humanity.

I don't think his intention is to be evil, just a realistic forecast. They are already replacing some actors in films with artificial intelligence, for instance.

He talks about 'universal high income' that is 'good for education' but states that none of humanity will ever need to work again as AI will do everything. What, then, is the purpose of this 'education'?

The focus on practical education seems to be a bias on the part of some Americans, a legacy of some early Protestants, perhaps, who focused heavily on practicality in education. However, education can still be valued even in a world where much of the actual labor is done by machines. Humans will still need to be educated to enrich their lives and participate as citizens in society. People will potentially devote their lives to much more abstract and humanistic pursuits.

 

[Bob Crowley]

The only reason we have the availability of education we do now is because machines already do most of the work. If we had to do everything by hand, we wouldn't have the time or resources to educate most of the population.

The difference now is that the machines are becoming "intelligent" and taking the place of controllers. A human truck driver might have been controlling a machine that weighs tonnes, but the promise (or threat, depending on your point of view) is that AI will make the driver unnecessary.

I've long thought that there should be a tax on machines which could then be used to employ people in areas that don't attract funding - the disabled, "greening" the environment (there's a lot of scope there), and generally providing for the population.

No doubt though short term thinking will prevail.

 

[trophy33]

He talks about 'universal high income' that is 'good for education' but states that none of humanity will ever need to work again as AI will do everything. What, then, is the purpose of this 'education'?

Knowledge about the world. Have you ever stopped educating yourself in everything that is not related to your specific small job position?

Also, AI does not exist, its still just a theoretical concept. What we have and will have in foreseeable future, is machine learning.

 

[ozso]

The catch 22 of AI taking over jobs is less jobs will mean less people making a living to be consumers. Put another way, truck drivers buy a lot of what's hauled by truck drivers. Getting rid of the workforce means getting rid of the consumer base.

 

[FireDragon76]

The catch 22 of AI taking over jobs is less jobs will mean less people making a living to be consumers. Put another way, truck drivers buy a lot of what's hauled by truck drivers. Getting rid of the workforce means getting rid of the consumer base.

The economy of the future might not be based on material consumption. That seems to be the direction things are headed. We are currently undergoing an "industrial revolution" of sorts that will change the world just as much as the first one did.

 

[ozso]

The economy of the future might not be based on material consumption. That seems to be the direction things are headed. We are currently undergoing an "industrial revolution" of sorts that will change the world just as much as the first one did.

I took note of his comment about universal higher income. But that sounds more like a pipe dream.

 

[The Liturgist]

Musk tells Sunak AI will eventually mean no one needs to have a job

In conversation with the Prime Minister, the tech billionaire compared AI to a 'magic genie' that would bring a time when 'no job is needed'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I truly believe he is a Trojan horse who is no friend to humanity.

He talks about 'universal high income' that is 'good for education' but states that none of humanity will ever need to work again as AI will do everything. What, then, is the purpose of this 'education'?

He speaks with both sides of his mouth and I believe he is evil.

Perhaps, but surely I am an evil sinner, and I probably sin more than he does or anyone else. This at least is what I feel we should believe, lest we delude ourselves that we have become holy and no longer require God’s mercy (conversely, it is equally dangerous to believe ourselves to be beyond the hope of salvation).

At any rate God has commanded “Judge not, lest ye not be judged”, and thus in the absence of a specific actual evil act, where there is no doubt as to guilt, to give an historic example, the notorious case of the marital infidelity of Bill Clinton, we have no justification for speculating about what his moral values actually are.

The only action of his I am aware of that would be worthy of some criticism would be where he openly speculated that one of the cave diving specialists who rescued the stranded Thai children’s soccer team who rejected the unsolicited micro-submarine SpaceX donated, which was hurriedly built using rocket parts, because it could not make the tight clearances in the cave, was a paedophile, which was an outrageous and libelous remark, made on Twitter like so many remarks of that sort, in the heat of the moment. So he has done that. However, most of us are guilty of having slandered people, so I feel we are compelled to wait until there is more concrete evidence before speculating about his morality.

 

[FireDragon76]

I took note of his comment about universal higher income. But that sounds more like a pipe dream.

How it sounds isn't really as pertinent as the economic justifications, and it could be practically implemented without costing alot. Of course, it will require higher taxes, but that won't affect the lifestyle of people like Musk that much because he already has an obscene amout of wealth.

 

[ozso]

How it sounds isn't really as pertinent as the economic justifications, and it could be practically implemented without costing alot. Of course, it will require higher taxes, but that won't affect the lifestyle of people like Musk that much because he already has an obscene amout of wealth.

So personal income will be generated through taxing personal income?

 

[The Liturgist]

So personal income will be generated through taxing personal income?

Yeah I’m pretty sure the Sovietsky Soyuza tried that, under Lenin, and it was quite the flop. Hence the New Economic Policy which basically reimplemented capitalism but with all the capital owned by the Communist Party, and that also failed, because command economies don’t work either.

 

[FireDragon76]

So personal income will be generated through taxing personal income?

If you want to put it in those terms, yes.

A post-scarcity society might be hard for some people to wrap their heads around, but that doesn't make it a "pipe dream".

 

[FireDragon76]

Yeah I’m pretty sure the Sovietsky Soyuza tried that, under Lenin, and it was quite the flop. Hence the New Economic Policy which basically reimplemented capitalism but with all the capital owned by the Communist Party, and that also failed, because command economies don’t work either.

The Soviet Union was a poor, agrarian society when the Bolsheviks came to power. Yet, by the 1960's, Soviet citizens had a standard of living comparable to Americans. So it wasn't a complete failure.

The UBI or reverse-income tax has been an idea supported by a diverse range of economists, including Milton Friedman, the godfather of neoliberal economics. The UBI doesn't involve a command economy, from a neoliberal perspective, it can be seen as an expansion of market freedoms. It could also potentially eliminate alot of beaurocracy and redundancy in government programs.

 

[YorkieGal]

Perhaps, but surely I am an evil sinner, and I probably sin more than he does or anyone else. This at least is what I feel we should believe, lest we delude ourselves that we have become holy and no longer require God’s mercy (conversely, it is equally dangerous to believe ourselves to be beyond the hope of salvation).

At any rate God has commanded “Judge not, lest ye not be judged”, and thus in the absence of a specific actual evil act, where there is no doubt as to guilt, to give an historic example, the notorious case of the marital infidelity of Bill Clinton, we have no justification for speculating about what his moral values actually are.

The only action of his I am aware of that would be worthy of some criticism would be where he openly speculated that one of the cave diving specialists who rescued the stranded Thai children’s soccer team who rejected the unsolicited micro-submarine SpaceX donated, which was hurriedly built using rocket parts, because it could not make the tight clearances in the cave, was a paedophile, which was an outrageous and libelous remark, made on Twitter like so many remarks of that sort, in the heat of the moment. So he has done that. However, most of us are guilty of having slandered people, so I feel we are compelled to wait until there is more concrete evidence before speculating about his morality.

I don't believe 'judge not lest ye be judged' is used in the correct context. I do not equate my sins to the same degree as someone who intentionally tries to harm others. So, we disagree on this point, which is fine. That's what discourse is about, I suppose!

 

[YorkieGal]

Knowledge about the world. Have you ever stopped educating yourself in everything that is not related to your specific small job position?

Yes, and it's a waste of time.

The economy of the future might not be based on material consumption. That seems to be the direction things are headed. We are currently undergoing an "industrial revolution" of sorts that will change the world just as much as the first one did.

Yes, I think what people don't grasp is that we humans aren't wanted or needed for what is planned in the future. Elon keeps 'warning' us about this fact but keeps inventing things to ensure it happens.

I took note of his comment about universal higher income. But that sounds more like a pipe dream.

I don't want universal income. People working and find meaningful relationships through their jobs, engaging by using their minds through communication, skill etc is what keeps us a society. Painting flower pots and singing (both of which can be done by robots) isn't going to keep humanity thriving.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes, and it's a waste of time.


Yes, I think what people don't grasp is that we humans aren't wanted or needed for what is planned in the future. Elon keeps 'warning' us about this fact but keeps inventing things to ensure it happens.

I think you are being needlessly pessimistic. I don't think any ill intentions are intended by Musk.

I don't want universal income. People working and find meaningful relationships through their jobs, engaging by using their minds through communication, skill etc is what keeps us a society. Painting flower pots and singing (both of which can be done by robots) isn't going to keep humanity thriving.

There are other ways to form social relationships besides wage or salaried employment.

Robots have no subjective experience of singing or making flower pots, and that makes all the difference in the world to us humans. Again, it might be hard to grasp for some how life can be meaningful without intense material production, but I think that's more due to the cultural baggage of a certain kind of Protestantism, than a deep understand of the human condition. Some of our ancient ancestors that lived by hunting and gathering or horticulture only had to work a few hours a day to obtain the resources they needed to survive. It's the agricultural and industrial revolutions that created this notion that working from sunup to sundown was meaningful, and that required elaborate hierarchical religions and political structures that no longer exist (the ancient Egyptians, for instance, had the average American beat in terms of how many resources they spent on religion).

 

[YorkieGal]

I think you are being needlessly pessimistic. I don't think any ill intentions are intended by Musk.



There are other ways to form social relationships besides wage or salaried employment.

Robots have no subjective experience of singing or making flower pots, and that makes all the difference in the world to us humans. Again, it might be hard to grasp for some how life can be meaningful without intense material production, but I think that's more due to the cultural baggage of a certain kind of Protestantism, than a deep understand of the human condition. Some of our ancient ancestors that lived by hunting and gathering or horticulture only had to work a few hours a day to obtain the resources they needed to survive. It's the agricultural and industrial revolutions that created this notion that working from sunup to sundown was meaningful, and that required elaborate hierarchical religions and political structures that no longer exist (the ancient Egyptians, for instance, had the average American beat in terms of how many resources they spent on religion).

Ok, but I think you're not grasping that Elon is telling us that humans won't be needed and all of this is a great danger to humanity.

I'm not pessimistic. I'm hearing what is being said instead of hearing what I want to be said.

 

[dzheremi]

Elon Musk is sketchy for so many more reasons than this.

Also, it's not like this is something that Elon Musk thought up by himself with his evil mastermind brain or something. Here's a very popular YouTube video (16 million views) on the subject from 9 years ago that makes basically the same point:

As someone who works in an educational field that uses AI on every single shift, the video is correct (though I don't know about some of Musk's particular economic predictions that are obviously not covered there; he's not an economist, and he thought the "Cyber Truck" was a good idea, so I don't trust his judgment on a more basic level). There is very much a sense at my job that we are kind of training our 'replacement', as the AI we use is getting markedly better with each iteration, but it's nowhere near where it would need to be to be deployed with no human oversight, so our jobs are safe for the foreseeable future. In the long term, however, I don't doubt that a great many jobs (including mine) will ultimately be assumed by a more advanced AI. This will require a great amount of reconsidering the foundations of modern economics, but I guess I naively hope that by the time we're at that point, everyone will have seen the writing on the wall for quite some time, so there won't be as much of a fight anymore about how all us little worker bees just need to get back into our job-holes, because...well, what jobs? Presumably the people who would be arguing that now (the owning class) will be the ones who most benefit from being able to replace all their workers with AI, so it doesn't really make sense that they would be also be the ones telling everyone to get back to work. Maybe it'll be like living in Alaska, where the government just gives you money for being around. Who knows. We're definitely not there yet.

 

[FireDragon76]

Elon Musk is sketchy for so many more reasons than this.

Also, it's not like this is something that Elon Musk thought up by himself with his evil mastermind brain or something. Here's a very popular YouTube video (16 million views) on the subject from 9 years ago that makes basically the same point:

As someone who works in an educational field that uses AI on every single shift, the video is correct (though I don't know about some of Musk's particular economic predictions that are obviously not covered there; he's not an economist, and he thought the "Cyber Truck" was a good idea, so I don't trust his judgment on a more basic level). There is very much a sense at my job that we are kind of training our 'replacement', as the AI we use is getting markedly better with each iteration, but it's nowhere near where it would need to be to be deployed with no human oversight, so our jobs are safe for the foreseeable future. In the long term, however, I don't doubt that a great many jobs (including mine) will ultimately be assumed by a more advanced AI. This will require a great amount of reconsidering the foundations of modern economics, but I guess I naively hope that by the time we're at that point, everyone will have seen the writing on the wall for quite some time, so there won't be as much of a fight anymore about how all us little worker bees just need to get back into our job-holes, because...well, what jobs? Presumably the people who would be arguing that now (the owning class) will be the ones who most benefit from being able to replace all their workers with AI, so it doesn't really make sense that they would be also be the ones telling everyone to get back to work. Maybe it'll be like living in Alaska, where the government just gives you money for being around. Who knows. We're definitely not there yet.

If your job goes away, UBI is instituted, and the World Economic Forum makes everybody eat bugs and be happy, you can always go become a monk.

Like I said, it's a peculiarity of Protestantism that people think wage labor or salaried employment makes life meaningful. In reality, it's just another vocation.

 

[dzheremi]

If your job goes away, UBI is instituted, and the World Economic Forum makes everybody eat bugs and be happy, you can always go become a monk.

Oh yeah. There are plenty of options. I actually like my job, so I would miss it, but I could go do something else. I don't know about monasticism, since I have some health issues that would make it difficult, but there's always something to do.

Like I said, it's a peculiarity of Protestantism that people think wage labor or salaried employment makes life meaningful. In reality, it's just another vocation.

True. It's not called the "Orthodox work ethic", and that's not because we don't work.